Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 26 October 2014, 10:47:01
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I moved wife's 3.2 ex-police manual saloon out of garage on Friday. It was misfiring badly and the EML was flashing. Saturday I moved it back into garage and misfire had stopped, so had EML flashing. No codes are stored.
It did the same thing November 2011, 14000 miles ago. Then I found water in no. 6 plug hole. I changed cam cover gaskets, cleared breathers, changed plugs and LH coil pack. No more trouble until Friday.
On advice from OOF I sealed central wiper hole in scuttle with Vx black sealant in 2012.
My instinct is to change the plugs and see what I find. Any comments?
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What are the coil packs like :-\
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Pedal trick for codes ?
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Pedal trick for codes ?
I plugged in code reader, it said no codes stored.
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What are the coil packs like :-\
I don't know. It's one thing l shall discover when I change the plugs, also if there is water or oil in plug holes, or if a plug has disintegrated. Mystery is that it has recovered, and no codes are stored.
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The plugs will be fine at 14,000 miles. Worth checking that the plug wells are clear of water / oil, though.
TBH, if you've just started it to move it on the driveway it may well just be flooded. Try cranking it with the throttle wide open to clear it if it happens again. If you have to start it just to move it, let it idle for a few minutes or hold it at 2500 RPM for a few seconds before shutting it down to ensure the rich mixture on which it started has been cleared.
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When my 3.2 misfired I plugged my code reader in and NO codes!
Did the pedal trick and it showed up as the MAF, changed MAF and sorted.
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When my 3.2 misfired I plugged my code reader in and NO codes!
Did the pedal trick and it showed up as the MAF, changed MAF and sorted.
+1 and sometimes the otherway around. :y
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Last five starts have been instant and OK, running on all 6. I took it for a 10 mile run at 4 o'clock, no misfiring, no EML. Yet I do not trust it now.
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Bah... the light has to come on every so often, if only to show it works ;D
If you have pulled the coil pack out, checked for moisture and resealed the scuttle then it will be fine :y
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Bah... the light has to come on every so often, if only to show it works ;D
If you have pulled the coil pack out, checked for moisture and resealed the scuttle then it will be fine :y
Thanks Al. I reckon you are right, but I must check before I send the wife out in it again, or she will call me out and have me tow her home next time. As you say, check coil packs, plug holes and scuttle seal.
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If the EML was flashing, there should be some codes, most likely misfire codes, but could possibly be trim codes.
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If the EML was flashing, there should be some codes, most likely misfire codes, but could possibly be trim codes.
That's what I thought, but on next restart EML was not on, and code reader came up with 'No codes stored'.
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Code readers can lie. Check codes via pedal trick.
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Code readers can lie. Check codes via pedal trick.
Gives codes 10 3 10 10 10 3 10 5
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Random misfire and misfire on pot 5. Right hand rear cylinder... Classic water down the wiper spindle :y
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Code readers can lie. Check codes via pedal trick.
Gives codes 10 3 10 10 10 3 10 5
0300 - P0300 Random/multiple cylinder misfire detected
0305 - P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
so it noticed your misfire, but gives no reason ... check plugwells for oil - cam covers or water - skuttle seal
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Today I removed the passenger side coil pack and plugs. There was a little water on top of coil pack above cylinders 2 & 4. No oil or water in any plug holes. Coil pack and plugs were fine. Plugs were 4 electrode type GM011. There was no sign of water ingress via central wiper hole, but will check tomorrow in daylight with watering can.
Pedal trick gave 10 3 10 10 10 3 10 5. Code reader gave 'no codes stored'.
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Code readers can lie. Check codes via pedal trick.
Gives codes 10 3 10 10 10 3 10 5
Misfire on #5
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Thank you gentlemen. On receipt of your messages I rushed out to the car and removed plugs 1, 3 and 5. No oil or water in plug holes, and plugs are all 4 electrode GM 011s. They all look the same, gaps are a bit large at about .047", bigger than the .015" on my motorbikes and Mini, etc. In the morning I will check what a new plug gap is. No. 5 is indeed beneath the central wiper hole in scuttle, but I do not think it is leaking, anyway it misfired in the garage where it had sat for 3 days. Anyway, shame on me for jumping to conclusions, and trusting my cheap code reader, not the pedal trick.
These plugs have been in the car for 3 years, but only 14000 miles. This is the car which had the slipping clutch, so I let the wife (no tearaway she) run it, until I changed the clutch in January, with help and encouragement from OOF.
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Bin your code reader. Or equally sell it on ebay.
If the sponge on the under side of the scuttle is wet, the scuttle is leaking. If there's water on the cp, the sponge will be wet.
As said, if not here, elsewhere on here, test the scuttle with a hose on the screen. Bonet up. See where the water comes in.
Dry, seal with gutter seal or black cam cover goo, usually around wiper spindle and the join/metal lip on scuttle drain.
Also check windscreen seal is solidly attached to the bottom lip of the screen, or the water will just poor in straight off the screen.
Hth.
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Also, don't adjust the gap on the plugs. They'll snap off and destroy the boor. Replace. Gm on TC cheapest ;)
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Haynes says plug gap is 1mm, .039". I measured a new GM 00 plug today, seemed nearer .025". Tomorrow I will call at Bristol Vauxhall Direct and buy a set of new plugs and fit them Saturday. Then check scuttle seal and reseal if necessary.
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Bought new plugs, GM011 TC £2.96. fitted, runs OK. Checked scuttle for leaks. none at centre wiper hole - then tried full length of scuttle and found major leak passenger side, right above no. 6, or coil pack on PFL Omegas. It's coming in through the join in the two sections of the scuttle. That doesn't surprise me, I imagine it always leaked there, and they all do.
Do they all leak there? How do I cure that?
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Silicon in the join and along the front edge :y
Mine has a hole there, but no misfire issues since removing the foam across the front of the scuttle, be prudent to remove that as well :y
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Yes they do mostly. That bit of draft excluder foam along the lip of the metal scuttle needs removing, dry it all out, then stick it down with a mastic or gutter seal it cam cover goo. Whatever you have.
Actually it may not bond the plastic to the metal, but at least forms a barrier to stop the water rolling back into the engine bay, rather than down the scuttle drain like its supposed to. If you have a mastic gun you can squeeze some in there without removing anything if needs be. See how you go, so to speak.
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Thanks, gentlemen. I have sealed the scuttle on the 3.2 and the Opel 2.5 with cam cover sealant, I will check again when it has cured.
Now I understand why I have only had the misfire and water in no. 6 plug hole on the 3.2 (facelift),three times, but have suffered coil pack failure on the other V6s and the in line fours.
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I now wonder: did Opel design the car knowing that water would leak through the gap in the scuttle join, or did they give it a smear on some sealant on original assembly? Haynes does not recommend resealing it after scuttle removal and replacement. Either the scuttle should have been a one piece item, or the join should be waterproof, not a simple overlap. It just strikes me as a design flaw, unless I have missed something.
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The scuttle works OK when it is new, aligned and fitting tightly. After a few years and a number of removals, who knows? And the designers don't care having moved on to even more exciting projects.
Hence the need for some owner adjustments, removing the water soaked foam is probably the most important thing, as that provides a nice reservoir for all sorts of randomly positioned drips.
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Good thinking, NickW. Again, there is a decent rubber seal around then facelift coilpack, so water should not get in there. Or on a pre facelift, it will drip onto the coilpack, but the leads and the connectors are well insulated, so any water dripping there should run off without harm, and usually does. But, by Murphy's law, in the long run, what can go wrong, does go wrong.
Cars are designed to last the warranty period without trouble. We in the OOF buy 10 year old top of the range cars for peanuts, and enjoy them. Much of the pleasure is keeping them running in tip top condition, challenging and rewarding.
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Seen too many 3.2's with rusty plug holes to consider the coil PACs water tight. Not even slightly. Not even with silicon grease around the seal.
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Thanks, Chris. That's worth knowing. So what I need is a secondary water shield, on the lines of biggriffin's 'roof' over no. 6 plug hole, made from an old screenwash 5 litre bottle. I suspect the failure of coil packs on pre facelift cars, including in line fours, may also be the result of water on the coilpacks, causing tracking, etc.
Unless, of course, I can seal the scuttle joint satisfactorily.
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No I considered that but a shield could come loose or deflect water elsewhere. Better to seal up what's there IMO. It works well when sealed. Nice dry engine bay. :)