Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 01 November 2014, 19:37:10
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Evening fellas,
I am aware the best mod / upgrade I can do for my 2.5 is install 3L cams. I plan on doing this in the not too distant future.
However, is it worth having a remap done by a tuning company to get the best performance from my beast? Is it harmful to the engine to change the mapping? Costs?
Any info would be sweet! :)
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I have a custom map from superchips.
If you find a local dealer/installer as I did, he may charge you less if you go to him so to speak.
Mine is a 3.0 MV6 anyway, but made it smoother and a tiny bit more lively.
Superchips have been trading since 1977 so have a good reputation.
Cheers Dean
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Thanks Spireite :y
Do you mind me asking how much this chip cost?
According to their website I can expect an extra 12 BHP and a 16nm increase in talk. Is this even going to be noticeable :-\
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FORGET IT!
Not worth messing around with. If you want a faster Omega, buy a faster Omega.
They come no quicker than 3.2 V6, in Black obviously. :-X
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lol fair enough mate.
may I ask why so vehemently against it?
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lol fair enough mate.
may I ask why so vehemently against it?
Of course.
Why spend £1k+ on making your car just as fast as an equivalent model already available? Why not pick up an engine from a breaker on here for, say, £300 and fit it into your car? You have the knowledge, you have the capability and you have the tools.
I'd say sell your car and buy the one you desired in the first place, but I know you have spent many an hour and many pounds turning your car into something very nice.
I've had 4 Omega's. 3x 3.0 Elites, and 1x 3.2 Elite. I've driven a 2.0, 2.2, 2.5DTi and a 2.5 V6.
The 2.5 V6 is a decent machine - The mid range is nothing compared to the 3.0 and the 3.2 is in another league.
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Re spray it black. Job done :)
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Not wanting to get into a big row about the subject,but I have a 3.2 with a remap showing as some would question an optimistic rolling road read out at 241 BHP,I have another 3.2 to compare it with and and without doubt there are subtle differences between the two. The remapped car is certainly better on fuel and although both cars are very quick and smooth to drive the remapped car just marginally performs better than the other car.Both cars have been gone through in the last four months and have had brand new 3.0 ltr cats/full exhaust systems/cambelts and all the associated consumables that are part of that,so there isn't to much by way of variations in their care to cause the difference in performance and in fact the better performing car has nearly 3 times the mileage on the clock than the other car.....so I can only relay my own limited experience on the subject and can say that I'm definitely considering having the other 3.2 and the 3.0 done in the new year...BUT!! having it done with a reputable company and certainly not the cheapo Egay diy crap from Eastern Europe :-\
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Thanks guys, really interesting to see some differing opinions here.
TBH I am happy with the car. honestly. but as I've mentioned on a few occasions there are a couple of small flat spots that I'd love to iron out. not being experienced enough with other omegas I don't know if this is a fault (hence always searching for vac leaks ;D) or if this is akin to normal operation of this particular engine.
I read that a remap can get rid of these unwanted flat spots. so this isn't really a desire to go from 170bhp to 900bhp and expect a £250 mod to do that. its more about just polyfilling some cracks, for want of a better analogy ;D
but seriously guys thanks for all the info.
does anyone know how this affects the wear on the engine? it says on the ''superchips'' site that they do put extra strain on the engine BUT well within tolerable limits. thoughts?
cheers :y
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Doesnt put no extra wear on engine,all your doing is fine tuning the original map
Basics to start with,every ecu map has been programmed to take into account several factors,firstly not everybody services there car at the correct times,so the ecu has to be set up to account for this,i.e dirty airfilter reduces flow into engine,etc,fuel quality etc,so the manufactures design a map,so the car will still run and keep going,a remap then overwrites this,safety protocols can be reduced,i.e rev limiter,fuel settings etc,this allows the engine to run better than from the factory,and this helps with fuel economy and how the engine runs.
Put it another way,people dont like andriod software,they jail break it and load a custom system which is far better and improves the phone,still same phone but improved :y
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Well put,that's about it in a nutshell,I think if there's need for real speed then there will be something out there to fit your individual requirements just a matter of need and of course budget :y
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Slightly better mpg, marginal.
Smoother, goes slightly better in my opinion.
My chip complemented piper cams and so Jetex exhaust and sports cats though.
Cost around £200 ish cash from Wiltshire superchips. Nice chap, removed the ecu, and placed a piggyback chip holder in, and fitted the new chip. Jobs a good un.
ATB
Dean
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Ive got a 3.2 Manual Plod thats been remapped, also comes with a Catback SS Performance Exhaust that also helps, probably the quickest Omega Ive driven and I driven a few now.
Have played around with 3.0 Chips, Superchips, Courtenay etc, they do give some enhancement but only a marginal 5 to 15 BHP in real life, a Re Chip on the V6 Non DBW do seem to improve MPG as well, which is a bonus over the later DBW's.
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Webby the performance and fuel consumption highly depends on your choice..
if you would drive it only on the track and could dispose catalytic converters, you could well map it to very rich afr values ( and leaving a dark cloud behind you ;D )
then you could see the difference.. but fuel consumption would obviously suffer..
however, for legal road use with a good map you can see around 20 hp (-+5) gain
but I must warn you, if you open that door, soon you will continue with headers and then with a turbo and empty wallet ;D :y
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If you want a 3.2 Engine, AR35, ECU and all associated gubbins, let me know. Mine is up for sale.
Come and remove it all, and you can have it for £300. I'll let you pick other bits you may want at a very good price.
:y
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FORGET IT!
Not worth messing around with. If you want a faster Omega, buy a faster Omega.
They come no quicker than 3.2 V6, in Black obviously. :-X
Is the 3.2 Faster than an MV6???
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FORGET IT!
Not worth messing around with. If you want a faster Omega, buy a faster Omega.
They come no quicker than 3.2 V6, in Black obviously. :-X
Is the 3.2 Faster than an MV6???
Its faster than the 2.6 MV6, but slower than the 3.0 MV6. Its exactly the same speed as the 3.2 MV6, obviously.
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Webby, I've owned a 3.0l and a 2.5 with G cams and a Superchip performance chip at the same time. I don't give a rats arse what the claims are, the 2.5 is absolutely nowhere near the 3.0l in performance and drivability stakes. And because I had to rag the nads off it everywhere, no more economical. Well, until I killed it :-[
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i would say before you start wasting money on chip or remap , get 4.22 diff that will make more difference and only cost about 50 notes
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i would say before you start wasting money on chip or remap , get 4.22 diff that will make more difference and only cost about 50 notes
What do you mean by that?
Cheers
Ant
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i would say before you start wasting money on chip or remap , get 4.22 diff that will make more difference and only cost about 50 notes
What do you mean by that?
Cheers
Ant
Lowers the gearing to increase acceleration. There are different Omega differentials available
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4.22 diff from a 2.6.
Lowers the gearing for acceleration and reaches top speed quicker. However it also raises the engine speed at cruising speed by about 400rpm.... Which doesn't sound much but could grate the nerves a little for some on a long journey.
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My 2.6 which is Black by the way does seem to getup and go quick enough :y
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Not wanting to get into a big row about the subject,but I have a 3.2 with a remap showing as some would question an optimistic rolling road read out at 241 BHP......BUT!! having it done with a reputable company and certainly not the cheapo Egay diy crap from Eastern Europe :-\
And yet my old 3ltr MV6 with its £40 ebay chip produced 247bhp on a rolling road. It was in Total Vauxhall at the time, however I don't think it was right
It did have improved fuel economy and did approx 50k with no issues, so i would say, in this case with the n/a V6, you are better off saving money and buying a cheap ebay chip
*edited to add*
It was Polar Sea Blue metalic so nearly black, hence why it was so powerful
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Awesome input guys. Thanks.
Apologies i've not added to this recently but been more concerned with the coolant leak i created lol touch wood thats sorted now and if it is then i think ill speak to superchips.
phil, i've watched a ''mythbuster'' video on those cheap egay ones and it showed the one they brought for testing did nothing. not saying thats the case for all obviously. but certainly some out there are dodgy and, having brought some rubbish from egay of late, i think id rather spend the extra and know its a good un from reputable comp.
not arguing, just my opinion :)
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Webby, I've owned a 3.0l and a 2.5 with G cams and a Superchip performance chip at the same time. I don't give a rats arse what the claims are, the 2.5 is absolutely nowhere near the 3.0l in performance and drivability stakes. And because I had to rag the nads off it everywhere, no more economical. Well, until I killed it :-[
Fair play mate. but i'm just looking to get the best out of the 2.5 with no flat spots. if that was the case id be really pleased with it
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i would say before you start wasting money on chip or remap , get 4.22 diff that will make more difference and only cost about 50 notes
What do you mean by that?
Cheers
Ant
Lowers the gearing to increase acceleration. There are different Omega differentials available
And is that an easy job to do?
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4.22 diff from a 2.6.
Lowers the gearing for acceleration and reaches top speed quicker. However it also raises the engine speed at cruising speed by about 400rpm.... Which doesn't sound much but could grate the nerves a little for some on a long journey.
Is that an easy job to do?
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4.22 diff from a 2.6.
Lowers the gearing for acceleration and reaches top speed quicker. However it also raises the engine speed at cruising speed by about 400rpm.... Which doesn't sound much but could grate the nerves a little for some on a long journey.
Is that an easy job to do?
Wouldn't say easy, but well do-able with the rear of the car lifted.
Check your ratio first though, yours being a 1994 2.5 will probably follow the 3.0 ratios, 3.7 for Manual and 3.9 for Auto, they changed the 2.5 around 1998 from memory.
if Manual with 3.7 I personally wouldn't recommend fitting a 4.22 to it.
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4.22 diff from a 2.6.
Lowers the gearing for acceleration and reaches top speed quicker. However it also raises the engine speed at cruising speed by about 400rpm.... Which doesn't sound much but could grate the nerves a little for some on a long journey.
Is that an easy job to do?
Wouldn't say easy, but well do-able with the rear of the car lifted.
Check your ratio first though, yours being a 1994 2.5 will probably follow the 3.0 ratios, 3.7 for Manual and 3.9 for Auto, they changed the 2.5 around 1998 from memory.
if Manual with 3.7 I personally wouldn't recommend fitting a 4.22 to it.
Why be that sir?
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4.22 diff from a 2.6.
Lowers the gearing for acceleration and reaches top speed quicker. However it also raises the engine speed at cruising speed by about 400rpm.... Which doesn't sound much but could grate the nerves a little for some on a long journey.
Is that an easy job to do?
Wouldn't say easy, but well do-able with the rear of the car lifted.
Check your ratio first though, yours being a 1994 2.5 will probably follow the 3.0 ratios, 3.7 for Manual and 3.9 for Auto, they changed the 2.5 around 1998 from memory.
if Manual with 3.7 I personally wouldn't recommend fitting a 4.22 to it.
Why be that sir?
Going from a 3.7 to a 4.22 will too much of a jump in ratios, ist gear would be a waste of time, you be doing about 3500rpm when cruising at 70mph (115Kph) in 5th, your MPG will be out the window.
Might be handy for Track use, increased acceleration and different Torque at speeds in each gear, but would make the car undrivable for normal road use.
As said check what ratio is in there already before committing to fitting a 4.22 diff.
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4.22 diff from a 2.6.
Lowers the gearing for acceleration and reaches top speed quicker. However it also raises the engine speed at cruising speed by about 400rpm.... Which doesn't sound much but could grate the nerves a little for some on a long journey.
Is that an easy job to do?
Wouldn't say easy, but well do-able with the rear of the car lifted.
Check your ratio first though, yours being a 1994 2.5 will probably follow the 3.0 ratios, 3.7 for Manual and 3.9 for Auto, they changed the 2.5 around 1998 from memory.
if Manual with 3.7 I personally wouldn't recommend fitting a 4.22 to it.
Why be that sir?
Going from a 3.7 to a 4.22 will too much of a jump in ratios, ist gear would be a waste of time, you be doing about 3500rpm when cruising at 70mph (115Kph) in 5th, your MPG will be out the window.
Might be handy for Track use, increased acceleration and different Torque at speeds in each gear, but would make the car undrivable for normal road use.
As said check what ratio is in there already before committing to fitting a 4.22 diff.
What would be another possible ratio other than the 3's??? 4's? Is that a daft question?
Maybe they are different over here?
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4.22 diff from a 2.6.
Lowers the gearing for acceleration and reaches top speed quicker. However it also raises the engine speed at cruising speed by about 400rpm.... Which doesn't sound much but could grate the nerves a little for some on a long journey.
Is that an easy job to do?
Wouldn't say easy, but well do-able with the rear of the car lifted.
Check your ratio first though, yours being a 1994 2.5 will probably follow the 3.0 ratios, 3.7 for Manual and 3.9 for Auto, they changed the 2.5 around 1998 from memory.
if Manual with 3.7 I personally wouldn't recommend fitting a 4.22 to it.
Why be that sir?
Going from a 3.7 to a 4.22 will too much of a jump in ratios, ist gear would be a waste of time, you be doing about 3500rpm when cruising at 70mph (115Kph) in 5th, your MPG will be out the window.
Might be handy for Track use, increased acceleration and different Torque at speeds in each gear, but would make the car undrivable for normal road use.
As said check what ratio is in there already before committing to fitting a 4.22 diff.
What would be another possible ratio other than the 3's??? 4's? Is that a daft question?
Maybe they are different over here?
Maybe, as said you need to check. all this assumes you have a 2.5 Manual with a 3.7 Diff, fitting a 3.9 could work (similar to fitting a 4.22 to an Auto that already has a 3.9), this would give you around 3000rpm at 70mph in 5th but youwould still be down on MPG.
Driving a Omega V6 at 3000 Rpm whilst doing 70mph in 5th can be a bit frustrated, just doesn't feel right, been there, done that. .
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To be honest...Not too bothered about speed on the old lady. Just want her driving smooth and looking good. I'll consider the 3.0 cams but I think that's about it. I'll change the wheels for sure too. Gonna bang on some 17"s very soon.
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4.22 diff from a 2.6.
Lowers the gearing for acceleration and reaches top speed quicker. However it also raises the engine speed at cruising speed by about 400rpm.... Which doesn't sound much but could grate the nerves a little for some on a long journey.
Is that an easy job to do?
Wouldn't say easy, but well do-able with the rear of the car lifted.
Check your ratio first though, yours being a 1994 2.5 will probably follow the 3.0 ratios, 3.7 for Manual and 3.9 for Auto, they changed the 2.5 around 1998 from memory.
if Manual with 3.7 I personally wouldn't recommend fitting a 4.22 to it.
Why be that sir?
Going from a 3.7 to a 4.22 will too much of a jump in ratios, ist gear would be a waste of time, you be doing about 3500rpm when cruising at 70mph (115Kph) in 5th, your MPG will be out the window.
Might be handy for Track use, increased acceleration and different Torque at speeds in each gear, but would make the car undrivable for normal road use.
As said check what ratio is in there already before committing to fitting a 4.22 diff.
What would be another possible ratio other than the 3's??? 4's? Is that a daft question?
Maybe they are different over here?
Maybe, as said you need to check. all this assumes you have a 2.5 Manual with a 3.7 Diff, fitting a 3.9 could work (similar to fitting a 4.22 to an Auto that already has a 3.9), this would give you around 3000rpm at 70mph in 5th but youwould still be down on MPG.
Driving a Omega V6 at 3000 Rpm whilst doing 70mph in 5th can be a bit frustrated, just doesn't feel right, been there, done that. .
To be honest...Not too bothered about speed on the old lady. Just want her driving smooth and looking good. I'll consider the 3.0 cams but I think that's about it. I'll change the wheels for sure too. Gonna bang on some 17"s very soon.
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So then boys.
Say I get my new superchips chip. I then decide that I actually don't want it any more. What needs to happen?
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So then boys.
Say I get my new superchips chip. I then decide that I actually don't want it any more. What needs to happen?
You give to me ;D :D
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So then boys.
Say I get my new superchips chip. I then decide that I actually don't want it any more. What needs to happen?
You pull it out and put the original one back in.
In my experience though, (3.0 not 2.5) they do give improved mpg, especially on a run.
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Got ya. So I can expect them to give me back my old chip?
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Got ya. So I can expect them to give me back my old chip?
Yep, any good remapper should, tbh, on the Petrol Non DBW's there just an eprom swop inside the ECU, unless the Mapper is giving you 'value added services' like a before and after Rolling Road print out, the Eprom change is something you can do yourself, just dont bend or break the Prom pins. ;)
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FORGET IT!
Not worth messing around with. If you want a faster Omega, buy a faster Omega.
They come no quicker than 3.2 V6, in Black obviously. :-X
Yep :y :y
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FORGET IT!
Not worth messing around with. If you want a faster Omega, buy a faster Omega.
They come no quicker than 3.2 V6, in Black obviously. :-X
Yep :y :y
I went the 3.0 cams route with my 2.5,I wouldn't again,much quicker to drop a 3.0 donkey in and be done with it
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I contacted Superchips for the shits and giggles. This was the reply:
Thank you for your enquiry.
Please click the following link for details of what we offer for your
car:
http://bit.ly/1wzB9Uw
On this model the modification is installed by replacing a chip in the
ECU.
The main benefit of the remap will be enhanced responsiveness,
especially in the mid-range.
If the flatspots are a characteristic of this model in general, the
remap will probably improve them; but if they are peculiar to your car,
the remap will probably make them worse.
A dyno run is not included because it is not necessary for the purpose
of the installation.
As long as the car is healthy and has been well maintained, there should
be no issues remapping a car of this age.
Unfortunately, however, we do not offer remaps for cars that have had
the EGR removed.
Why wouldn't they remap with an EGR blank? ???
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Re spray it black. Job done :)
And don't forget the stripe that also adds some power. :y ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Lol anyone any thoughts on the reply from superchips? ::) ;D
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Lol anyone any thoughts on the reply from superchips? ::) ;D
Its just the standard bullshit reply. Basically, they created a map ages ago, and that one single map is what they sell. Like it or lump it.
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Thanks Jaime. So can I use it with my EGR blank? :y
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Thanks Jaime. So can I use it with my EGR blank? :y
Yup. EGR still needs to be electrically in the circuit.
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:y
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Lol anyone any thoughts on the reply from superchips? ::) ;D
Some Re Mappers electronically disable The EGR within the ECU Map with the view to try and squeeze a couple more HP's out to aid there other Map mods. Fairly sure Superchips dont do this, so probably just covering there arse by saying 'we do not offer remaps for cars that have had the EGR removed' or possible having the EML light coming on with a prior bodged job EGR removal.
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I would not expect Opel's map could be bettered. And yet - last March I bought a used Omega 2.5 petrol manual estate from OOF member ajsphead, via e-bay. It had been chipped by him in October 2012, by Mathijssen-tehnics bv, of the Netherland, cost 328euros. I asked him why, he explained he had suffered a diff failure, replaced diff with a diff from a diesel Omega, so to regain performance for the change in overall gear ratio he had it chipped.
I can report that it drives very well, quite as well as my Opel Omega 2.5 petrol manual saloon, and returns an overall 30mpg, as compared with the saloon's 28 mpg on the same journey pattern.
Make of that what you will.
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I would not expect Opel's map could be bettered. And yet - last March I bought a used Omega 2.5 petrol manual estate from OOF member ajsphead, via e-bay. It had been chipped by him in October 2012, by Mathijssen-tehnics bv, of the Netherland, cost 328euros. I asked him why, he explained he had suffered a diff failure, replaced diff with a diff from a diesel Omega, so to regain performance for the change in overall gear ratio he had it chipped.
I can report that it drives very well, quite as well as my Opel Omega 2.5 petrol manual saloon, and returns an overall 30mpg, as compared with the saloon's 28 mpg on the same journey pattern.
Make of that what you will.
Most Maps can be bettered, that the whole principle behind re mapping, Comes from the Factory as standard with considerations as to where the Cars going to live, climate, who and how its going to be driven, lack of service intervals etc, fine tune them parameters and squeeze a few more horses out of it and all that stuff, job done.
I have a 3.2 Manual thats been re mapped, with the added benefit of LPG Dual Fuel, been toying with the idea of fitted a Diesel 3.45 Diff to replace the 3.7 LSD fitted (although dont really wont to lose the LSD side of things, so may look into that one) I reckon the Manual Box will cope better over the Auto giving the the change of diff ratio without losing too much on performance, so its nice to hear that your 2.5 drives well with one fitted and improved MPG. :y
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I would not expect Opel's map could be bettered. And yet - last March I bought a used Omega 2.5 petrol manual estate from OOF member ajsphead, via e-bay. It had been chipped by him in October 2012, by Mathijssen-tehnics bv, of the Netherland, cost 328euros. I asked him why, he explained he had suffered a diff failure, replaced diff with a diff from a diesel Omega, so to regain performance for the change in overall gear ratio he had it chipped.
I can report that it drives very well, quite as well as my Opel Omega 2.5 petrol manual saloon, and returns an overall 30mpg, as compared with the saloon's 28 mpg on the same journey pattern.
Make of that what you will.
Most Maps can be bettered, that the whole principle behind re mapping, Comes from the Factory as standard with considerations as to where the Cars going to live, climate, who and how its going to be driven, lack of service intervals etc, fine tune them parameters and squeeze a few more horses out of it and all that stuff, job done.
I have a 3.2 Manual thats been re mapped, with the added benefit of LPG Dual Fuel, been toying with the idea of fitted a Diesel 3.45 Diff to replace the 3.7 LSD fitted (although dont really wont to lose the LSD side of things, so may look into that one) I reckon the Manual Box will cope better over the Auto giving the the change of diff ratio without losing too much on performance, so its nice to hear that your 2.5 drives well with one fitted and improved MPG. :y
Doesn't that prove that your 2.5,Terry, was bettered with a map....?
I got a quick question...
I read somewhere that you should use super unleaded to take full advantage of your remap.this correct or can I run on standard unleaded?
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That depends on the map ::) if it's programmed to work with regular unleaded, then you should use regular unleaded :-\
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I would not expect Opel's map could be bettered.
Depends on definition of "bettered". More power, definitely possible. Better economy, yes, possible (though usually marginal on NA petrols). Better emmissions and all round drivability, the OE map will be hard to beat.
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That depends on the map ::) if it's programmed to work with regular unleaded, then you should use regular unleaded :-\
Fair comment. I'll enquire when I get it fitted :)
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Only really worth remapping turbo's or diesels for more outright power, but as previous posts point out a decent remap can get rid of some holes in the power hence making the car drive a bit nicer.
Now my Dti would be a good candidate :)
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That's all I'd expect / want Mag.not looking to get it producing a million horse power. just want it ironed out. so worth trying in my opinion :y
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That's all I'd expect / want Mag.not looking to get it producing a million horse power. just want it ironed out. so worth trying in my opinion :y
Given that a (properly working) V6 gives a smooth power curve, I reckon you'll be disappointed Webby. Most off the shelf chips for Omegas, including Superchips and Powerchips just give a small improvement at high RPM.
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webby I'll recommend 3.0 cams and a 3.0 ecu .. it has a different map.. (but you will need immobiliser rings paired with this ecu)
it gave considerable results with polished inlets (in terms of hp .. not sure how many secs of gain on an auto though) :y
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Well familiar with the G Cam route, didn't know about fitting a 3.0 ECU, though? I know that fitting G Cams is basically turning the X25XE it into the Vectra Supertouring engine, at 195bhp... but after several years and Vx... well, basically lying saying The Supertouring had a special remapped ECU, the Vectra boys discovered it is in fact the same ECU as any other 2.5 V6...
so very interested to know if the 3.0 ECU is worth doing. :y
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Well, this thread has some really divided opinion. Some say it will iron out flat spots. Others say it won't. And others say it's all rubbish.
I guess the only way is to try it and report back the results. :)
As for fitting a 3L ECU...is this straight up plug n play? What about this immobiliser thang? Would i have to fit the 3L cams with the 3L ECU? More details please Cem :y
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Consensus as I've always known it, Webby, is fit 2 x G cams (you can fit 4, but this loses too much low-down 'grunt' but ok if it's a track day car bounding off the rev limiter all day) and a lighter flywheel helps driveability too. The G cams actually create a bit of a dip in the power (or torque, I forget which, or both) curve which the long plenum is supposed to iron out, so the long plenum is an ideal must if you do the G Cam mod. Finally the dividers, are also worth fitting from the 3.0, too. these are also meant to help with the 'mod'
Welcome for anyone to correct me or add to :)
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Well, this thread has some really divided opinion. Some say it will iron out flat spots. Others say it won't. And others say it's all rubbish.
I guess the only way is to try it and report back the results. :)
As for fitting a 3L ECU...is this straight up plug n play? What about this immobiliser thang? Would i have to fit the 3L cams with the 3L ECU? More details please Cem :y
Webby, if you must scratch this itch, then as an experiment, fit the following from a facelift 3.0...
ECU (with the immobiliser gubbins),
3.0 throttle body (if different),
Long nose plenum,
3.0 inlet manifold (if different-pretty certain these are all the same),
3.0 fuel rail with injectors and fpr (should come attached to manifold ::)),
3.0 Maf (if different).
You might find it makes sod all difference, in which case swap the cams next time the belt is done and try again, but it will be cheaper than getting it chipped/mapped :y The 2.6/3.2 intake manifolds are the same as late 3.0, but you might find the 2.5 intakes are slightly smaller. The fuel rail is the same except for the pressure regulator and possibly the injectors, in which case you might be able to use your existing inlet manifold/fuel rail and simply fit the 3.0 fpr.
Failing that, try a 3.2 and buy some new pants :-*
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Thanks Al,
So just to confirm....
Are my 2.5 inlets/injectors the same as a 3.0l? i thought they were... :-\
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I don't know, hence all the ifs ::)
They probably are, but I'll not assume so on your behalf :y
The fpr is a higher pressure on the 3.0 than the 2.5 iirc...
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Thanks Al, got ya ;)
TBH I was thinking about re-doing the cambelt earlier (its been on there 18 months) than scheduled as it has been dowsed in coolant. So may take the opportunity to install those cams.
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...although i have to say i'm still tempted by the chip....
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PPS, if i did want to explore the 3.0 ECU.... this is essentiaslly like remapping.... as it has a different map....?
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PPS, if i did want to explore the 3.0 ECU.... this is essentiaslly like remapping.... as it has a different map....?
Yup :y
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...and whats all this immobiliser stuff about? once i get it does it plug n play? and presumably i can get a cheap one off here?
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I think, from what I've read over the years, thought it's not going to be slower, with all the 3.0 bits n bobs, there'll be practically no difference, maybe 5 bhp or some similar nominal figure. And I'm assuming (never assume, of course) that people who've said 'meh fitting them G cams were a waste of time', may not have fitted all the 3.0 gear as listed above, just the cams. I've always seen it as a bit of a 'do one, do all' thing.
As I say I'm not going to say don't do it, and replacing the cams is certainly not a 5 minute job, but in my case when I do the '3 litre mod', as I'll call it, I'll be fitting the cams, too, purely because it means literally taking off all that plenum, fuel rail, dividers etc malarkey twice, otherwise.
EDIT: but I am really interested to see what just changing everything but the cams does do to the performance. Feel free to be my guinea pig, Mr Webby ;)
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PPS, if i did want to explore the 3.0 ECU.... this is essentiaslly like remapping.... as it has a different map....?
Yup :y
Well, there was a school of thought that they are actually the same map but I haven't compared them myself. :-\
The thing is, the ECU injects fuel based on the mass air flow into the engine. If the map is for a 3.0 engine, it will still see a smaller mass air flow on a 2.5 and inject fuel accordingly, so it's not like it will be changing the fuelling significantly. (not that more fuel will give more power, of course). I would, therefore, expect swapping to a 3.0 ECU to be a total waste of time.
Manufacturers tend to map their engines on the safe side, so normally a tad richer than ideal fuel mixture at full throttle just to ensure it doesn't go lean and burn a valve / piston. The mixture for maximum power on a modern-ish engine with an efficient combustion chamber is actually perilously close to going too lean, and the lambda sensors don't work in this region, so there is no way to ensure the mixture doesn't stray into damage territory. Hence, they play on the safe side.
Ditto with the ignition timing, it may well be more conservative than ideal for reasons of self-preservation. So, try the Superchips, as it might resolve both of these issues, but swapping the ECU for one not even designed for the right engine is a bit hit and miss.
The biggest thing you can do for a 2.5 is to swap the cams, as, IMHO, GM crippled the engine to differentiate it from the 3.0 by fitting mild cams. If that's not enough, get a 3.0 / 3.2. :y
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Thanks Kev,
So just to get this correct in my own mind.... fitting a 3.0l ECU is an absolute waste of time. But it's possible that the Superchips one could be an improvement.
Just re-reading your post... by remapping with a superchips am i getting in to danger territory do you think?
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You're removing some of the margins the manufacturer designed in, that's what all modifications do, but enough people have been using them on here that we can be pretty sure it won't cause a problem.
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ok.. talking from 1st hand direct experience and dyno measures..
mine was an auto 2.5..
converted to manual and then measured at 2 different dynos.. result : one was 143 cv and other 144 cv
(old members may remember the dyno sheets) (note : measuring an auto omega on dyno gives unpredictable and incorrect results- tried on different omegas and measured even 230 cv on a 2.5)
then
changed the cams , installed a 3.0 inlet divider, polished the inlet ports+plenum+exhaust manifolds (same exhaust manifold), sanded the throttle cavity
installed 3.0 ecu (from a 97 vaux manual omega) .. this time same dyno gave 188 cv :)
now you decide what to do :y
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Cant really argue with results cem.
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if you prefer to install 3.0 ecu , you will need the immobilser ring around the steering and also 2 transponder chips from keys .. of course all from the same car
ps: 3.0 ecu must be from an auto 3.0 car for yours as its auto
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ok.. talking from 1st hand direct experience and dyno measures..
mine was an auto 2.5..
converted to manual and then measured at 2 different dynos.. result : one was 143 cv and other 144 cv
(old members may remember the dyno sheets) (note : measuring an auto omega on dyno gives unpredictable and incorrect results- tried on different omegas and measured even 230 cv on a 2.5)
then
changed the cams , installed a 3.0 inlet divider, polished the inlet ports+plenum+exhaust manifolds (same exhaust manifold), sanded the throttle cavity
installed 3.0 ecu (from a 97 vaux manual omega) .. this time same dyno gave 188 cv :)
now you decide what to do :y
I don't doubt your results, Cem... but you changed the cams, which probably counted for 99% of your power gain. ;)
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ok.. talking from 1st hand direct experience and dyno measures..
mine was an auto 2.5..
converted to manual and then measured at 2 different dynos.. result : one was 143 cv and other 144 cv
(old members may remember the dyno sheets) (note : measuring an auto omega on dyno gives unpredictable and incorrect results- tried on different omegas and measured even 230 cv on a 2.5)
then
changed the cams , installed a 3.0 inlet divider, polished the inlet ports+plenum+exhaust manifolds (same exhaust manifold), sanded the throttle cavity
installed 3.0 ecu (from a 97 vaux manual omega) .. this time same dyno gave 188 cv :)
now you decide what to do :y
I don't doubt your results, Cem... but you changed the cams, which probably counted for 99% of your power gain. ;)
more than 40 cv gain is too much even for G cams imo :-\
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however, I also noticed that hammering the omega constantly for 1-2 days changes the car behaviour.. I'm well sure and aware of that..
if you ignore the fuel consumption ;D
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Is that immobiliser ring easy to swap / put on the car.
TBH for pure convenience and the fact that there's doubt around what the 3.0 ECU can do... i think i'll stick to the superchips one and see what happens.
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....and then in future jam on the 3.0 cams :)
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There['s no point messing about with a 3.0 ECU if you're going to chip it anyway. Just fit the Superchip. Far easier. :y
But.. the significant gain will come from the cams. ;)
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There['s no point messing about with a 3.0 ECU if you're going to chip it anyway. Just fit the Superchip. Far easier. :y
But.. the significant gain will come from the cams. ;)
Will do, thanks mate.
As said i'm not looking for it to give me a million horses. i just want to iron flat spots out. and it seems that may be achievable with the SC's chip.
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Thinking if it was me, this is what I would do, upgrade to 3.0 Cams, Fit 3.0 inlet divider, leave the ECU in situ as is and throw in a 3.0 Re Mapped Chip (Eprom) to replace the Standard 2.5 Chip. I reckon all in around 200 notes in parts or a tad lees.
Then if you really wont to push the boat, fit 3.0 Penlium and 3.0 Maf (if there different).
I think you should see gains of around 25 to 35 more HP and should make the Car more drivable when required and probably see the same if not better MPG.
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Thanks Zirk :)
In this guide......
http://oldsite.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293153796
...after bending tabs back do i remove those screws to be able to access the chip ''housing''?
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Thanks Zirk :)
In this guide......
http://oldsite.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293153796
...after bending tabs back do i remove those screws to be able to access the chip ''housing''?
No not if it has a Chip Holder fitted (should have), in fact you dont really need to bend the back tabs, just the side ones, the back ones will bend a little when you prise the cover away from the main plug side. :y
Your need to undo the 4 x black nylon nuts from the black insert plate to get access to the ECU underside as well. ;)
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Thanks mate.
It also says to wear ESP to avoid static getting in??? Whats that? ???
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Thanks mate.
It also says to wear ESP to avoid static getting in??? Whats that? ???
Anti Static warning that could zap your ECU component(s), thats your choice, I've never bothered, not on ECU's anyway, but the warning is there for a reason.
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ok mate thanks. you can get anti static gloves or something???
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ok mate thanks. you can get anti static gloves or something???
No, its a wrist Band that gets hooked up to Ground (or Neg, Earth, -V, 0V, Chassis or what ever people need to call it these days ;D)
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like this.....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/131010396005?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108
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Thing is your delving into territory which the superchips rep will be doing, it's not necessary to even touch your ecu yourself, speak to superchips and get a number of the local superchips specialist. They will remove the chip and put in a piggyback chip holder and then new chip in. If you've been meddling yourself they may not want anything to do with the job, as that's what they specialise in, it's all part of the service so to speak. You don't get a chip in the post, the superchips rep does all the work.
If you speak with your rep, as I did and mention what mods you have or intend to do, they can alter the chips perimeters say a little even more.
Ideally you fit your 3.0 mods and cams first, then chip it.
Like I said before, the car feels smoother, but didn't rip my wig off on the way home! But I was happy to pay the money.
If your prepared to travel, speak to Richard Davies 07971 655701. Or email
sales@wiltshire.superchips.co.uk
Or ring superchips themselves who might help you with a local guy to you, but I can vouch for rich, he did it on his driveway in the back of his van, this saved me some money as he didn't come to me.
Rich is one of the remaining long term/established reps who cut his teeth in the more fluid tuning market of the Ford RS fraternity, he worked alongside Ford in Swindon remapping and chipping the various RS's around of the 80's and 90's.
All I can say, is speak to rich and hold your horses!
Cheers Dean
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You get to keep your original chip as well, take it home with you in a little box!
My car is a 3.0 auto 1999 MV6.
Before I went to see Rich at superchips, I already had my Courtenay/Piper cams in, K&N panel filter with cheese grater air box fitted. Rich told Superchips HQ that I would be fitting a full Jetex stainless system and sports cats, and they tweeked what was their off the shelf map.
I'd spoken to Motorsport Developments beforehand as well, who said if I'd fitted cams they couldn't help me with an off the shelf chip, and I'd have to have a costly live map. They told me as well, that it is essential to have all your mods you intend to fit completed, just in case they tweek the map on the generic chip.
But hey, if your eager, give Motorsport Developments a ring for a live map, and when your done go back and modify the live map at great cost again, we're talking a few hundred quid mind per shot.
Less haste, more thinking, then go do it.
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Thanks for that input mate.
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Personal experience I'd call it.
Im passing on personal experiences, I've been modifying cars now of various guises for 20 years. Meddling/dabbling with the omega is back to basics.
Playing around with turbocharged petrol engines is another with upwards of 300bhp.
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i really want to turbo my omega. but thats for another year :y
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Best Turbo route is to fit a 2.0 turbo engine from an Astra or Calibra Zafira GSi etc.. then tune that up. Let someone else (ie Opel Engine Designers) do all the design, leaving you do simply tweak the chip, lightened flywheels slight boost increase etc..
I'd do all the G-cam route, polish ports etc.. the works... make it the best V6 engine there is in the UK. Then come the new year, take pity and give it to me :y :D ;D :D
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Best Turbo route is to fit a 2.0 turbo engine from an Astra or Calibra Zafira GSi etc.. then tune that up. Let someone else (ie Opel Engine Designers) do all the design, leaving you do simply tweak the chip, lightened flywheels slight boost increase etc..
I'd do all the G-cam route, polish ports etc.. the works... make it the best V6 engine there is in the UK. Then come the new year, take pity and give it to me :y :D ;D :D
Nah man, i reckon turbo charging a v6 would be quality!!!!!!! seen that guys thread in the galery??? looks awesome.
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Best Turbo route is to fit a 2.0 turbo engine from an Astra or Calibra Zafira GSi etc.. then tune that up. Let someone else (ie Opel Engine Designers) do all the design, leaving you do simply tweak the chip, lightened flywheels slight boost increase etc..
I'd do all the G-cam route, polish ports etc.. the works... make it the best V6 engine there is in the UK. Then come the new year, take pity and give it to me :y :D ;D :D
Nah man, i reckon turbo charging a v6 would be quality!!!!!!! seen that guys thread in the galery??? looks awesome.
That's not an Omega engine ::)
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Best Turbo route is to fit a 2.0 turbo engine from an Astra or Calibra Zafira GSi etc.. then tune that up. Let someone else (ie Opel Engine Designers) do all the design, leaving you do simply tweak the chip, lightened flywheels slight boost increase etc..
I'd do all the G-cam route, polish ports etc.. the works... make it the best V6 engine there is in the UK. Then come the new year, take pity and give it to me :y :D ;D :D
Nah man, i reckon turbo charging a v6 would be quality!!!!!!! seen that guys thread in the galery??? looks awesome.
That's not an Omega engine ::)
What is it then? ???
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Assuming we're talking about this chap?
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=111701.0
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Thats it mate. looks like a 3.0 v6 to me :-\
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Yup, looks pretty 2.5 / 3 literey Vee-sixy to mee :o
Unless perhaps thinking of this guys...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=126328.0
That's some big jap lump in it
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Yup, looks pretty 2.5 / 3 literey Vee-sixy to mee :o
Unless perhaps thinking of this guys...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=126328.0
That's some big jap lump in it
The latter is a 2JZ-GTE out of a Toyota Supra. Popular conversion, bulletproof engine (largely, anyway) with a bottom end reputedly good for about 700hp before you need to start looking at the crank & bearings.
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Webby, by far the cheapest and easiest way to approach 200bhp from a 2.5 (for UK owners at least) is to pop in a 3.0l lump, and AR35.
I can absolutely, categorically tell you from personal experience that a cammed, superchipped 2.5 is not even in the same league as a bog standard 3.0l. Not even close. You may get a (claimed) 180+bhp, but only when screaming the nads off it.
Kevin Wood - I did once compare a 2.5 (from a 2000 car) to my 3.0 (1998) factory chips, and there were differences (and similarities). Whether that was age related, who knows?
I've still got the 3.0l chip (as its in the Bullet's glovebox), but lost the 2.5 chip in the garage. The laptop I had copied the maps to was also in the garage.
Webby - happy to take a copy of your current chip, and compare to my factory MV6 one.
I think I gave my Superchips 2.5 chip to Matchless, not sure if he still has it, or more likely sold it in an Omega.
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Yup, looks pretty 2.5 / 3 literey Vee-sixy to mee :o
Unless perhaps thinking of this guys...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=126328.0
That's some big jap lump in it
This is the one I was referring to :y The C20LET route would probably give you the most cost effective, reliable bang for your money :-\
Of course, fitting a proper engine which starts at 330bhp and is readily tuned to 500ish without blowing up is another approach...
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Webby, by far the cheapest and easiest way to approach 200bhp from a 2.5 (for UK owners at least) is to pop in a 3.0l lump, and AR35.
I can absolutely, categorically tell you from personal experience that a cammed, superchipped 2.5 is not even in the same league as a bog standard 3.0l. Not even close. You may get a (claimed) 180+bhp, but only when screaming the nads off it.
Kevin Wood - I did once compare a 2.5 (from a 2000 car) to my 3.0 (1998) factory chips, and there were differences (and similarities). Whether that was age related, who knows?
I've still got the 3.0l chip (as its in the Bullet's glovebox), but lost the 2.5 chip in the garage. The laptop I had copied the maps to was also in the garage.
Webby - happy to take a copy of your current chip, and compare to my factory MV6 one.
I think I gave my Superchips 2.5 chip to Matchless, not sure if he still has it, or more likely sold it in an Omega.
Thanks Jaime. Sorry to be thick but you can make me a copy chip of your mv6 one? or try out my chip? :)
ps, your adjuster arrived few days ago. Will pop that over to you :y
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Webby, by far the cheapest and easiest way to approach 200bhp from a 2.5 (for UK owners at least) is to pop in a 3.0l lump, and AR35.
I can absolutely, categorically tell you from personal experience that a cammed, superchipped 2.5 is not even in the same league as a bog standard 3.0l. Not even close. You may get a (claimed) 180+bhp, but only when screaming the nads off it.
Kevin Wood - I did once compare a 2.5 (from a 2000 car) to my 3.0 (1998) factory chips, and there were differences (and similarities). Whether that was age related, who knows?
I've still got the 3.0l chip (as its in the Bullet's glovebox), but lost the 2.5 chip in the garage. The laptop I had copied the maps to was also in the garage.
Webby - happy to take a copy of your current chip, and compare to my factory MV6 one.
I think I gave my Superchips 2.5 chip to Matchless, not sure if he still has it, or more likely sold it in an Omega.
Thanks Jaime. Sorry to be thick but you can make me a copy chip of your mv6 one? or try out my chip? :)
ps, your adjuster arrived few days ago. Will pop that over to you :y
Just compare to see if 2.5 and 3.0 map is the same
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Webby, by far the cheapest and easiest way to approach 200bhp from a 2.5 (for UK owners at least) is to pop in a 3.0l lump, and AR35.
I can absolutely, categorically tell you from personal experience that a cammed, superchipped 2.5 is not even in the same league as a bog standard 3.0l. Not even close. You may get a (claimed) 180+bhp, but only when screaming the nads off it.
Kevin Wood - I did once compare a 2.5 (from a 2000 car) to my 3.0 (1998) factory chips, and there were differences (and similarities). Whether that was age related, who knows?
I've still got the 3.0l chip (as its in the Bullet's glovebox), but lost the 2.5 chip in the garage. The laptop I had copied the maps to was also in the garage.
Webby - happy to take a copy of your current chip, and compare to my factory MV6 one.
I think I gave my Superchips 2.5 chip to Matchless, not sure if he still has it, or more likely sold it in an Omega.
Thanks Jaime. Sorry to be thick but you can make me a copy chip of your mv6 one? or try out my chip? :)
ps, your adjuster arrived few days ago. Will pop that over to you :y
Just compare to see if 2.5 and 3.0 map is the same
I don't believe it is, despite what's been said on here in the past. Serek knows a bit about this when we were last chatting about upgrades.
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Webby, by far the cheapest and easiest way to approach 200bhp from a 2.5 (for UK owners at least) is to pop in a 3.0l lump, and AR35.
I can absolutely, categorically tell you from personal experience that a cammed, superchipped 2.5 is not even in the same league as a bog standard 3.0l. Not even close. You may get a (claimed) 180+bhp, but only when screaming the nads off it.
Kevin Wood - I did once compare a 2.5 (from a 2000 car) to my 3.0 (1998) factory chips, and there were differences (and similarities). Whether that was age related, who knows?
I've still got the 3.0l chip (as its in the Bullet's glovebox), but lost the 2.5 chip in the garage. The laptop I had copied the maps to was also in the garage.
Webby - happy to take a copy of your current chip, and compare to my factory MV6 one.
I think I gave my Superchips 2.5 chip to Matchless, not sure if he still has it, or more likely sold it in an Omega.
Thanks Jaime. Sorry to be thick but you can make me a copy chip of your mv6 one? or try out my chip? :)
ps, your adjuster arrived few days ago. Will pop that over to you :y
Just compare to see if 2.5 and 3.0 map is the same
Got ya. So how do you physically check to see if theyrethe same or different (please don't shout at me for being thick :-[ ;D)
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Webby, by far the cheapest and easiest way to approach 200bhp from a 2.5 (for UK owners at least) is to pop in a 3.0l lump, and AR35.
I can absolutely, categorically tell you from personal experience that a cammed, superchipped 2.5 is not even in the same league as a bog standard 3.0l. Not even close. You may get a (claimed) 180+bhp, but only when screaming the nads off it.
Kevin Wood - I did once compare a 2.5 (from a 2000 car) to my 3.0 (1998) factory chips, and there were differences (and similarities). Whether that was age related, who knows?
I've still got the 3.0l chip (as its in the Bullet's glovebox), but lost the 2.5 chip in the garage. The laptop I had copied the maps to was also in the garage.
Webby - happy to take a copy of your current chip, and compare to my factory MV6 one.
I think I gave my Superchips 2.5 chip to Matchless, not sure if he still has it, or more likely sold it in an Omega.
Thanks Jaime. Sorry to be thick but you can make me a copy chip of your mv6 one? or try out my chip? :)
ps, your adjuster arrived few days ago. Will pop that over to you :y
Just compare to see if 2.5 and 3.0 map is the same
Got ya. So how do you physically check to see if theyrethe same or different (please don't shout at me for being thick :-[ ;D)
Take your chip out, read it, compare contents to mine.
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read it on't computer?
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read it on't computer?
Yup. EEPROM programmer and a PC
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Actually its an EPROM
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Webby, by far the cheapest and easiest way to approach 200bhp from a 2.5 (for UK owners at least) is to pop in a 3.0l lump, and AR35.
I can absolutely, categorically tell you from personal experience that a cammed, superchipped 2.5 is not even in the same league as a bog standard 3.0l. Not even close. You may get a (claimed) 180+bhp, but only when screaming the nads off it.
Kevin Wood - I did once compare a 2.5 (from a 2000 car) to my 3.0 (1998) factory chips, and there were differences (and similarities). Whether that was age related, who knows?
I've still got the 3.0l chip (as its in the Bullet's glovebox), but lost the 2.5 chip in the garage. The laptop I had copied the maps to was also in the garage.
Webby - happy to take a copy of your current chip, and compare to my factory MV6 one.
I think I gave my Superchips 2.5 chip to Matchless, not sure if he still has it, or more likely sold it in an Omega.
easiest way to reach some considerable power is to buy a ready 3.0 omega ;D
but is it enough fast is another question .. and depends on personal choice :-\
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Actually its an EPROM
I don't know what that means :-[ but thanks for the offer mate.
if its only a 5 minute job(?) ill bring your adjuster round (and your metal if you order some) and I can whip the ecu out andwe'll 'ave a butchers if you like one evening?
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Webby, by far the cheapest and easiest way to approach 200bhp from a 2.5 (for UK owners at least) is to pop in a 3.0l lump, and AR35.
I can absolutely, categorically tell you from personal experience that a cammed, superchipped 2.5 is not even in the same league as a bog standard 3.0l. Not even close. You may get a (claimed) 180+bhp, but only when screaming the nads off it.
Kevin Wood - I did once compare a 2.5 (from a 2000 car) to my 3.0 (1998) factory chips, and there were differences (and similarities). Whether that was age related, who knows?
I've still got the 3.0l chip (as its in the Bullet's glovebox), but lost the 2.5 chip in the garage. The laptop I had copied the maps to was also in the garage.
Webby - happy to take a copy of your current chip, and compare to my factory MV6 one.
I think I gave my Superchips 2.5 chip to Matchless, not sure if he still has it, or more likely sold it in an Omega.
easiest way to reach some considerable power is to buy a ready 3.0 omega ;D
but is it enough fast is another question .. and depends on personal choice :-\
If the 2.5 is quick enough to scare Webby, then I'm not sure what he would do with an extra 30bhp :-\
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Bah. None of this safe margin stuff would stack up too well in the bike world. They map it get passed eu emissions so there's almost always a flat spot at 4k where they test for noise and emissions.
Therefor creating a nice aftermarket industry for tuning out said flat spots. A nice grey sooty deposit on the exhaust is then quite common. Just as Mr Kawasaki/Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Ducati/ and eventually Bmw intended. :y
Non of this black soot rubbish evident on cars. Clearly room to lean it off a bit there.
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Best Turbo route is to fit a 2.0 turbo engine from an Astra or Calibra Zafira GSi etc.. then tune that up. Let someone else (ie Opel Engine Designers) do all the design, leaving you do simply tweak the chip, lightened flywheels slight boost increase etc..
I'd do all the G-cam route, polish ports etc.. the works... make it the best V6 engine there is in the UK. Then come the new year, take pity and give it to me :y :D ;D :D
Best way for turboing omega IMO is fittin Saab b204 or b234 pot in, fits straight to the gearbox and T5's are known to give out 600+ hp with stock pistons, conrods etc :y
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Not sure the 2.5 scares me, Al? lol hence looking for better power ;)
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Ps, i trust that i cant just jam a 3.0l chip in my 2.5 irrespective of if theyre the same or not???
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Whether you can or not, the ECU for the 2.5 is made for the 2.5, and the 3.0 for the 3.0. Sorry, I know that's come across as a really sarcastic response, apologies - what I mean is, the 3.0 has a higher fuel pressure, different displacement, of course, and a longer plenum, designed to smooth out the flat spot caused by the G cams (think I've got that right), no doubt a couple of other differences that I'm missing, too. So although I'm sure the 3.0 chip would work in the 2.5... I don't know as it would be a clean street to more power / smoother driving on its own, any more than fitting a header tank off an MV6 would make the car go faster... if you follow? :)
the 3.0 ECU combined with other 3.0 components, I can appreciate, but not sure that just this on its own would do anything. That said I've never done it, so it's all opinion. You're not going to break anything by trying it, though, so if you fancy giving it a go, I'd welcome to result and the experiement. :y
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If swapping anything between the 2.5 and 3.0 bear in mind that there are some oddities in the wiring of the TPS between short and long plenum engines that have caught others out in the past. I'm not sure if the differences extend into the ECU and mapping, but it's something to be wary of. I think it's just the throttle body and engine loom that are different, but...
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Thanks guys.
So basically we're saying that swapping chips MAY be an issue.
But a chip from SC for a 2.5 will be designed fr a 2.5 and a chip for 3.o designed for a 3.0.
im just trying to gauge the interchangability if ya gets me :)
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Noo, its a legitimate question. It's just a tricky one, as anyone that has, will have changed all the other stuff, G cams, plenum, then lot over... I don't think there can be any terrible issues caused by doing it, however, aide from accidentally damaging the ECU / motherboardy-electric-magic-make-car-start stuff inside. But that's always a risk with anything.
I'd say give it a go, unless anyone can actually say you'd damage irreparably something. As far as I can tell it's plug it is, see if it works, no? Or no change? Or slightly worse? Then swap it back. The only thing I would say is try and get some scientific readings before and after. A run on a known bit of road, up to temp, for mpg... test the 30-70mph etc.. that sort of thing. It's too easy to say after having it on a rolling road 'oooh, I think it feels livelier' or 'oh, I did an oil change and it felt smoother'. If there turns out to be an appreciable difference, this alone may become a popular mod.
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Exactly DBG.
Let me re-phrase my question so it makes more sense....
Instead of buying a superchips chip at circa £150-£250... can i buy a cheap 3.0 ECU off 'ere and jam the chip in and have the same ''remap'' effect.
thats what i was trying to say..... just takes me several posts to ask it ;D ;D ;D
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hahah. No worries.
Ok, as I see it, the superchip and any chip is pushing the engine...if not 'to its limit' then closer to it. I mean you can make a drag race engine to the same bhp as a Bugatti Veyron, but it will only last 1/4 mile before it needs a rebuild, the Veyron is a road car, that's the difference.
I follow your logic totally, let's look at it mathematically (NOT my strongpoint!)
169bhp from 2.5V6, 208bhp from 3.0V6
So 39bhp difference. But the Vectra Supertouring ran with a 2.5 with G cams plus a couple of other tweaky bits but the same 2.5 ECU, at 195bhp
So in theory we can say 26bhp increase just with the 'mechanical' route of cams, plenum, etc..
That leaves 13bhp left unaccounted for... there is 500cc difference between the 2.5 and 3.0. If you designed a 500cc engine with 13bhp you'd have a right to be disappointed :D
So to be honest I'd say any power difference is in that extra 500cc's, and not to be found in the ECU. What the 3.0 ECU will do it work well with the long plenum, G Cams and higher fuel pressure of the 3.0 - which when fitted to a 2.5 V6 will 'do the biz'
It's not an exact science, but hope you follow my thinking. I still say, feel free to try it, to see what happens. Any experiment is never a waste even if you prove it doesn't work, it's never wasted.
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Exactly. The physical differences between engines is what makes the biggest difference, namely cams and displacement.
3.0 ECU is a shot in the dark. it might make an improvement, it might make things worse. I wasn't designed for the 2.5 engine in the first place.
Oh, and the fuel pressure on both the 2.5 and 3.0 is 3.0 BAR, by the way. The regulator is the same, as are the injectors.
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Thanks boys.
DBG your explanation makes total sense.
Kev, would you reckon the 3.0 chip would do the same as a superchips chip? or not as the SC chip is designed specifically for the 2.5?
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Thanks boys.
DBG your explanation makes total sense.
Kev, would you reckon the 3.0 chip would do the same as a superchips chip? or not as the SC chip is designed specifically for the 2.5?
No, the Superchips chip will (hopefully) contain ignition and fuel maps that have been developed for performance rather than the usual mix of emissions, compatibility with all climates and market positioning that the OEM chip was, so that should given you some gains, and those who have tried it confirm this (and that it doesn't seem to impact reliability).
The 3.0 chip is a crapshoot. It's actually likely to have pretty much the same maps as the 2.5 IMHO. Timing might have been tweaked a little, the map might extend to higher MAF output (but this is of no consequence to the 2.5 as it hasn't got big enough lungs to reach it). There is heresay that it improves things, in combination with a load of other mods, but no evidence that the same returns wouldn't have been achieved with the 2.5 chip.
Don't expect stellar results from just a chip in any case.
By far the best modification is a set of 3.0 cams, as has been said.
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Thanks boys.
DBG your explanation makes total sense.
Kev, would you reckon the 3.0 chip would do the same as a superchips chip? or not as the SC chip is designed specifically for the 2.5?
No, the Superchips chip will (hopefully) contain ignition and fuel maps that have been developed for performance rather than the usual mix of emissions, compatibility with all climates and market positioning that the OEM chip was, so that should given you some gains, and those who have tried it confirm this (and that it doesn't seem to impact reliability).The 3.0 chip is a crapshoot. It's actually likely to have pretty much the same maps as the 2.5 IMHO. Timing might have been tweaked a little, the map might extend to higher MAF output (but this is of no consequence to the 2.5 as it hasn't got big enough lungs to reach it). There is heresay that it improves things, in combination with a load of other mods, but no evidence that the same returns wouldn't have been achieved with the 2.5 chip.
Don't expect stellar results from just a chip in any case.
By far the best modification is a set of 3.0 cams, as has been said.
...thus confirming that as you say, the 3.0 chip swap would be a shot in the dark.
Thanks kev.
as mentioned before... not looking or expecting to gain veyron horses..... just an improvement :)
...now just to see what they want for said chip ::)
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This brings on a new question....
Can you get second hand superchips off the bay and are they to be trusted? Anyone any experience?
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In theory yes, though you're looking for someone who is breaking an omega with the chip, and is willing to split - or someone who is wanting to return a car to original spec, perhaps before selling. Either, I'd imagine most likely to be found on here, but given the total number of Omegas left, then the total number V6, then of them, who fitted a chip, then, of them, how many are breaking the car/willing to sell the chip.... I think we're into Steinmetz bodykit territory, here! Though if / when you find a chip it is bound to be pretty damn cheap, compared with new, like most OOF prices.
As for trust, well, I'd say as trustworthy as any second hand item you buy, from here, or ebay. There are good people and bad people in the world. Even OOF hasn't been immune, sadly.
I've seen people give away G Cams on here, leather interiors, it's just that week no-one wanted them, but the next week someone's willing to pay £100 a piece. Definitely worth seeing what's out there, pop it in General Chat? or in the Wanted / For Sale section, as a specific request, of course...
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Exactly. The physical differences between engines is what makes the biggest difference, namely cams and displacement.
3.0 ECU is a shot in the dark. it might make an improvement, it might make things worse. I wasn't designed for the 2.5 engine in the first place.
Oh, and the fuel pressure on both the 2.5 and 3.0 is 3.0 BAR, by the way. The regulator is the same, as are the injectors.
3.0 ecu works great on my 2.5.. I think both ecus are adaptive but 2.5 map more on the economy side instead of power..
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Leaving my 2.5 ECU on then!!! :D
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Ok then guys.
Let's say for arguments' sake you'd convinced me to go the 3L cams route as opposed to the chip.......
This extra flat spot thats created and fixed with the long plenum..... how bad is it?
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Thanks boys.
DBG your explanation makes total sense.
Kev, would you reckon the 3.0 chip would do the same as a superchips chip? or not as the SC chip is designed specifically for the 2.5?
No, the Superchips chip will (hopefully) contain ignition and fuel maps that have been developed for performance rather than the usual mix of emissions, compatibility with all climates and market positioning that the OEM chip was, so that should given you some gains, and those who have tried it confirm this (and that it doesn't seem to impact reliability).
The 3.0 chip is a crapshoot. It's actually likely to have pretty much the same maps as the 2.5 IMHO. Timing might have been tweaked a little, the map might extend to higher MAF output (but this is of no consequence to the 2.5 as it hasn't got big enough lungs to reach it). There is heresay that it improves things, in combination with a load of other mods, but no evidence that the same returns wouldn't have been achieved with the 2.5 chip.
Don't expect stellar results from just a chip in any case.
By far the best modification is a complete 3.0 lump, as has been said.
Fixed :y
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As mentioned before, amazing results not expected, and if TB is correct then it wont iron out the flat spots anyway.... although others have said different - ill just have to try one i think/
however, before i do..... 3L cams. they cause a flat spot(s) themselves. whats the experience of this?
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Thanks boys.
DBG your explanation makes total sense.
Kev, would you reckon the 3.0 chip would do the same as a superchips chip? or not as the SC chip is designed specifically for the 2.5?
No, the Superchips chip will (hopefully) contain ignition and fuel maps that have been developed for performance rather than the usual mix of emissions, compatibility with all climates and market positioning that the OEM chip was, so that should given you some gains, and those who have tried it confirm this (and that it doesn't seem to impact reliability).
The 3.0 chip is a crapshoot. It's actually likely to have pretty much the same maps as the 2.5 IMHO. Timing might have been tweaked a little, the map might extend to higher MAF output (but this is of no consequence to the 2.5 as it hasn't got big enough lungs to reach it). There is heresay that it improves things, in combination with a load of other mods, but no evidence that the same returns wouldn't have been achieved with the 2.5 chip.
Don't expect stellar results from just a chip in any case.
By far the best modification is a complete 3.0 lump and AR35 gearbox, as has been said.
In fact, sod it.
By far the best modification is a complete 3.0 lump and AR35 gearbox Omega, as has been said.
Fixed :y
Fixed again.
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Indeed ;D
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Webby, as has been previously said, you'd be a bit radio rental to buy a Superchips chips for £200-300, when half that will buy you a bigger engine complete with autobox and anything else you want, and this will perform far better, smoother than Superchips attempt (that IMHO wasn't that good).
I wouldn't even bother pissing around with £100 set of G cams. The 3.0l is just the only cost effective option if you want better performance and smoother power.
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Fair enough jaime.
You mentioned I'd need everything from a 3l.
So block, heads, cams, ECU. Can I not use my old 2.5 plenum, inlets and sandwich plate?
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Fair enough jaime.
You mentioned I'd need everything from a 3l.
So block, heads, cams, ECU. Can I not use my old 2.5 plenum, inlets and sandwich plate?
Webby, sincere apologies if this undoubtedly comes out the wrong way, but...
Obtain a COMPLETE 3.0 lump with ancilliaries/wiring/ecu/ar35 from a breaker, (hell you could even buy cheapy from gumtree or wherever) and fit said COMPLETE lump to Eeyore. If you wish to rebuild it first, then great :y
Stop making everything so complicated for yourself :-*
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Could probably get the complete car with 3.0 attached for not much more money.
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Could probably get the complete car with 3.0 attached for not much more money.
Here do...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201411038708770/sort/priceasc/usedcars/radius/1501/page/1/postcode/nn36rq/model/omega/make/vauxhall/quicksearch/true/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew?logcode=p :y
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Perfect. Sort the suspension, bin those God awfull wheels, and away you go. :y
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Perfect. Sort the suspension, bin those God awfull wheels, and away you go. :y
That actually looks quite tidy for the old fashioned version :-\
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Perfect. Sort the suspension, bin those God awfull wheels, and away you go. :y
That actually looks quite tidy for the old fashioned version :-\
Oh it's not as superior as the face lift Elite obviously, but needs must and all that.
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Ive never read a post so 'round the houses' so to speak.
Quite a few people have made it clear, including myself, what can be expected from a chip or other mods to give 3.0 performance or there abouts.
I can understand the lad asking questions, but.........
Anyway, best of luck with your endeavours mate, I hope you get the desired result, whether it turbo charging, grinding and welding, chipping it etc. You've definately got a nice platform to start with, maybe sell it and buy something that performs as it should, maybe a 3.2 elite with toys or an MV6. It'll be cheaper in the long run, which I'm sure others will agree.
keep up the entertaining posts though, they make me chuckle/smile!
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Old fashioned, lol.
I prefer the minifacelift elite spec, with the sumptuous pleated leather doorcards etc etc.
Each to their own mind, but theres a somewhat plasticy feel to the facelift.
Long live the prefacelift! Rare sight on the roads now.
Im only joking!
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Sorry guys, i should really make myself clearer :-[
The reason i asked about what i'd need is cos i've already brought just a 3.0l block. brought it to just play with and strip down and over time rebuild for learning purposes.....now the notion of chucking it in is becoming ever more clearer so was just wondering what i had to get with it :)
Spiireite.... sorry mate, i am a question-smith. it just takes me a long while to process info especially when its being quick fired on this excellent forum. glad it entertains though lol :)
sorry to annoy anyone but put simply... im thick as shit :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
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Webby
I wasn't having a dig mate, its just you ask a question, I responded being the first to reply to you. Even giving you names, numbers and feedback as I have exactly what your intending to achive on my own car.
You then go about broadening the scope of the subject, by talking about buying wristbands and installing standard generic ecu's and chips. Surely you might at least speak to a professional like Rich or a local superchips representative. Theres only so much people know on this forum, myself included, hence why we leave certain jobs to people who know what there doing - garages or professional mappers etc.
Rant over, no need to put yourself down either, have a ring around as I always do, try motorsport developments - stuart the owner is an extremeley nice helpful chap, and prides himself in talking people through mods etc. Talk to Rich on the number I gave you maybe. Its entirely up to you?
As for amusing me, yeah I sometimes chuckle at what you write, but you do spend alot of your time and energy on here, again not knocking it, but its not the be all and end all of car ownership.
All the best mate!
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Fair comments mate!!! :y :y :y
Just to let you know i wasnt ignoring your comments about ringing the professionals. it's just that i got a very good offer made on a chip that i'd have to fit myself. hence the questions re fitment. again though... you would have known that had i been clearer! :)
Out of interest i did ring SC. The chap could only give me the price with no details about the questions i was asking re best fuel as the chap i e mailed was on holiday. so i may well call your chap to see his thoughts. thanks mate :y
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You have pm webby
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cheers mate , just replied :y
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Could probably get the complete car with 3.0 attached for not much more money.
Here do...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201411038708770/sort/priceasc/usedcars/radius/1501/page/1/postcode/nn36rq/model/omega/make/vauxhall/quicksearch/true/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew?logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201411038708770/sort/priceasc/usedcars/radius/1501/page/1/postcode/nn36rq/model/omega/make/vauxhall/quicksearch/true/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew?logcode=p) :y
thats a good and a very economical example.. I could buy it any day for that price :y
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Could probably get the complete car with 3.0 attached for not much more money.
Here do...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201411038708770/sort/priceasc/usedcars/radius/1501/page/1/postcode/nn36rq/model/omega/make/vauxhall/quicksearch/true/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew?logcode=p :y
Ive already emailed about that one , awaiting reply ::) :P
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So after 11/12 pages we have come to the answer that I put on page 1.
If you want a faster Omega, buy a faster Omega.
Waste your money on a chip if you like. It will never have the torque of a 3.0 and certainly nothing compared to the 3.2.
:-\ :-\ :-X :-X :-[ ::) ::)
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Lol that may well be true about the answer being on page. 1.
However each and every reply has helped me to actually understand why that's probably the best option. It's also helped me understand more about the remapping which is what I was after in the first place.
So thanks to everyone fir their input.
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It will never have the torque of a 3.0 and certainly nothing compared to the 3.2.
BM - did you buy your 3.2 off Martin Imber, or did you have a dog of a 3.0? I only ask as I've yet to come across a 3.2 that overall has a stronger acceleration than a 3.0. The throttle response is different, you only need to fart on the 3.2 pedal and it's giving it everything, as opposed to the cable throttle where the butterflies match the pedal.
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lets see if this helps young bear.
bottem end from a 3.2
heads from a 2.5
cams from a 3.0/3.2
manifolds from a 2.6/3.2
fuel pressure reg from a 3.2
injectors from a 3.0 unless its underfueling then use 3.2 ones
3.0 downpipes, jetex full system
r28 manwell gearbox
matched inlets,and plenum
widened throttle body,
goverment/svo ecu, 99'octane fuel'optimax'
lsd,new subframe bushes,
all in a 3.0l facelift,with 17" wheels,poly front bushes.std plod spec springs,b4 or b8 bilstens all round,if you want to go stiffer,then start to seam the shell,and fit a full grp A cage.
and to stop it audi brake conversion.
hope this helps, some may disagree with my thoughts.!! :y, but what do I know. :)
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lets see if this helps young bear.
bottem end from a 3.2
heads from a 2.5
cams from a 3.0/3.2
manifolds from a 2.6/3.2
fuel pressure reg from a 3.2
injectors from a 3.0 unless its underfueling then use 3.2 ones
3.0 downpipes, jetex full system
r28 manwell gearbox
matched inlets,and plenum
widened throttle body,
goverment/svo ecu, 99'octane fuel'optimax'
lsd,new subframe bushes,
all in a 3.0l facelift,with 17" wheels,poly front bushes.std plod spec springs,b4 or b8 bilstens all round,if you want to go stiffer,then start to seam the shell,and fit a full grp A cage.
and to stop it audi brake conversion.
hope this helps, some may disagree with my thoughts.!! :y, but what do I know. :)
You missed 2, Manual Box and a Short Shift stick. ;)
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lets see if this helps young bear.
bottem end from a 3.2
heads from a 2.5
cams from a 3.0/3.2
manifolds from a 2.6/3.2
fuel pressure reg from a 3.2
injectors from a 3.0 unless its underfueling then use 3.2 ones
3.0 downpipes, jetex full system
r28 manwell gearbox
matched inlets,and plenum
widened throttle body,
goverment/svo ecu, 99'octane fuel'optimax'
lsd,new subframe bushes,
all in a 3.0l facelift,with 17" wheels,poly front bushes.std plod spec springs,b4 or b8 bilstens all round,if you want to go stiffer,then start to seam the shell,and fit a full grp A cage.
and to stop it audi brake conversion.
hope this helps, some may disagree with my thoughts.!! :y, but what do I know. :)
You missed 2, Manual Box and a Short Shift stick. ;)
Missed only one 8)
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It will never have the torque of a 3.0 and certainly nothing compared to the 3.2.
BM - did you buy your 3.2 off Martin Imber, or did you have a dog of a 3.0? I only ask as I've yet to come across a 3.2 that overall has a stronger acceleration than a 3.0. The throttle response is different, you only need to fart on the 3.2 pedal and it's giving it everything, as opposed to the cable throttle where the butterflies match the pedal.
I have only had the one 3.2. I've had 3x 3.0 though.
I can only comment on the single 3.2 I had...... it had far better low and mid range torque than any of the previous 3.0's.
That said, I've never driven a Ford Focus which didn't handle like it was on rails.
It seems we have very different driving styles. :P