Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Markjay on 25 June 2008, 10:28:36
-
My plumber had a mishap this morning, as he parked his car (legally) in front of our flat and opened the driver's door, a cyclist passing by at some speed crashed into the open door and flew of his bike.
The cyclist was in pain and was taken to hospital by ambulance, but it does not seem that he was seriously injured (hopefully).
1. From the legal/insurance point of view, does anyone know who's fault it is...?
2. There is a cyclist lane marked on the road between the parked cars and the main part of the road, does this make a difference to the legal responsibility?
3. The plumber was parked with the engine switched-off while this happened, if it is found to be his fault will this be considered a driving offence, i.e. something you can get points on your license for (and potentially even a ban in serious cases), of is it just a 'simple' case of causing damage or harm which is not driving-related? I would think the latter, after all this could happened to a passenger...
-
Iwould say it was the fault of your plumber. It looks like he was not paying due care and attention when he opened his car door.
No end of drivers have had their car doors ripped of by a passing lorry when they open their doors while parked on the hard shoulder.
-
Legal questions thread? ;)
On the scenario, I would imagine the following will apply:
1) Although the Road Traffic Act doesn't recognise a bicycle as a "vehicle" The cyclist is still a road user and he's entitled to be where he was.
2) The accident was caused by the plumber, and the plumber is fully responsible.
3) I don't know the legal position here, but I would consider it is more of a non driving related offence - if he pulled out and then knocked off the cyclist, I suspect it will be more serious.
Either way, I suspect the cyclist will want to claim damages to his bike and quite likely personal injury costs against the drivers insurer?
Note - I don't know the above for facts, just my thoughts... :)
-
Your plumbers fault. My dad did exactly the same outside his house! Two road users, both entitled to be there (using cycle lane is optional) & plumber caused the other to have an accident. I'll ask my dad tonight but I'm sure his house insurance covered the accident rather than his motor insurance.
My dad got done for due care & attention.
-
Some interesting questions there. Maybe actually better posted in the legal section.
I would also like to know where he stands legally.
I was allways told to check before opening my door on a road, coz if a car ripped it off as I opened it then it would be my fault.
But I would also raise annother question, which may or may not be relevent to this query.
Horses and cyclists. We have to have road tax, MOT and insurance to be able to use the road, we are not allowed to drive on the pavement. now if there is a cycle lane, then that is a designated area for cyclists, as a pavement is for a pedestrian. Both of which dont need any of the legal documents mentioned.
Our licences, insurance etc are at risk to many factors on the road, I feel that anything travelling between the pavemnts should be treated equally, if we can have claims againt us on our insurance then it should work both ways
-
Markjay - PM sent, mate.
-
...My dad got done for due care & attention.
..what did he get then?
-
How long after the door was opened did the cyclist hit it.?
If it had been open for a long time ,then perhaps the cyclist was not paying due care and attention.
Just a thought.
-
How long after the door was opened did the cyclist hit it.?
If it had been open for a long time ,then perhaps the cyclist was not paying due care and attention.
Just a thought.
Good point. don't know, though I suspect it was instantaneous...
-
In my experience as a (very, these days) occasional cyclist is that cycle lanes are put where it suits the council so they can "tick boxes" rather than where cyclists actually want to go. They also require you to stop every time there's a junction where they cross the road, etc. Much easier just to ride on the road, IMHO.
The fact that the government doesn't choose to extort money from cyclists and horse riders doesn't take away their right to use the road.
I'm guessing the lack of any compulsory insurance for cyclists boils down to the relatively limited damage they are likely to do, other than to themselves, and I'm sure it doesn't prevent you from claiming against them if they are found to be at fault, although you'd probably have to do so through the court system.
Kevin
-
Some interesting questions there. Maybe actually better posted in the legal section.
I would also like to know where he stands legally.
I was allways told to check before opening my door on a road, coz if a car ripped it off as I opened it then it would be my fault.
But I would also raise annother question, which may or may not be relevent to this query.
Horses and cyclists. We have to have road tax, MOT and insurance to be able to use the road, we are not allowed to drive on the pavement. now if there is a cycle lane, then that is a designated area for cyclists, as a pavement is for a pedestrian. Both of which dont need any of the legal documents mentioned.
Our licences, insurance etc are at risk to many factors on the road, I feel that anything travelling between the pavemnts should be treated equally, if we can have claims againt us on our insurance then it should work both ways
Cyclist are NOT above the law, though many choose to ignore road signs because they can. Simply put the law is not enforceable in the case of cyclists, and they know it. They jump red lights and go in one way streets, and cameras don't work because the bikes are not registered. The only way to enforce traffic laws on cyclists is by physically stopping them there and then, which is near impossible and at any rate the police are not likely to commit resources to that (yes there were a few highly-publicised police 'crack-downs', but with thousands of cyclists going through London every day this is a drop in the ocean).
But this is a political issue. Any crack-down on cyclists e.g. making them register the bikes or have some sort of formal training or permit (cyclists may not have a drivers license and not even know the highway code!) will end up in a dramatic reduction in cycling, not to mention increase the cost of cycling, and this is counter-productive from the congestion point of view.
Our leaders know that they are being judged by the congestion on our roads, not by the number of cyclists getting injured, and will always prefer to have more people using bicycles even if they are unregistered, uninsured, and untrained.
,
-
I agree with Kevin .... some years back a cyclist T-boned the Granada, doing quite a bit of damage to a door panel - and a lot more to his front wheel ! - I assumed that I would take the insurance "hit" under a fully comp policy and lose my NCB, however the Insurance company sued the cyclist in the small claims court. As they recovered all the costs, my NCB was unaffected.
Not a lot of help in this case I know .. but usefull background knowledge
-
Some interesting questions there. Maybe actually better posted in the legal section.
I would also like to know where he stands legally.
I was allways told to check before opening my door on a road, coz if a car ripped it off as I opened it then it would be my fault.
Plumbers fault, will be lucky not to be done for due care and attention as the cyclist was injured.
Horses and cyclists. We have to have road tax, MOT and insurance to be able to use the road, we are not allowed to drive on the pavement. now if there is a cycle lane, then that is a designated area for cyclists, as a pavement is for a pedestrian. Both of which dont need any of the legal documents mentioned.
Our licences, insurance etc are at risk to many factors on the road, I feel that anything travelling between the pavemnts should be trated equally, if we can have claims againt us on our insurance then it should work both ways
Cyclists of any age are not allowed to use the pavement by law, discretion comes in when young children are concerned. They should be either on the road or cyclepath with a legal bike following the highway code. Now I know many flawt the rules running red lights, not signalling, etc, but many of us do pay attention and act responsibly. The use of cycle lanes is optional because they are very badly designed and conceived (I think by someone who has never used a bike!) Often they are downright dangerous! Many roundabouts with a cycle lane require a cyclist to go around the outside getting off everytime you have to cross a junction, how tedious is that!? Sometimes lanes are on the other side of a busy road which is more dangerous to cross than to just use the road!
One thing I have noticed here in Germany is that the road/cycle/relationship is much more harmoneous. Paths are shared with cyclists and at a junction you have to let any cyclists go first before you negociate it. In turn the cyclist is more sedate, understanding and forgiving.
Cyclists in the UK feel they are being squeezed off the road and quite rightly their reply is to dig their heels in. Lets shoot the councils and road planners for lack of forethought rather than the cyclist from trying to be green and healthy! :y
Rant over ;D
-
Further PM sent :y
-
...My dad got done for due care & attention.
..what did he get then?
He got a fine but no points. It was about 6 years ago & I think it was £150 but will confirm the details when I see him tonight.
-
...My dad got done for due care & attention.
..what did he get then?
He got a fine but no points. It was about 6 years ago & I think it was £150 but will confirm the details when I see him tonight.
My grandfather was fined 10/- for riding a bike without due care & attention when he collided with a car because he had a violin case across the handlebars & a live chicken under his arm :)
-
My daughter was parked in a multi storey car park with her door open leaning over to get her handbag which was on the passenger seat. An old bloke in a Rover 75 decided not to wait for her to grab her bag and close the door and parked in the space next to her, hitting the door and damaging his wing. Her insurance said she was to blame and coughed up :o
-
...My dad got done for due care & attention.
..what did he get then?
He got a fine but no points. It was about 6 years ago & I think it was £150 but will confirm the details when I see him tonight.
My grandfather was fined 10/- for riding a bike without due care & attention when he collided with a car because he had a violin case across the handlebars & a live chicken under his arm :)
is that a live chicken under each arm? :D
-
...My dad got done for due care & attention.
..what did he get then?
He got a fine but no points. It was about 6 years ago & I think it was £150 but will confirm the details when I see him tonight.
My grandfather was fined 10/- for riding a bike without due care & attention when he collided with a car because he had a violin case across the handlebars & a live chicken under his arm :)
is that a live chicken under each arm? :D
addmittedly that is quite impressive! ;D
-
had a few car doors opened on me when i was a despatch rider around london in the early 90's,never hurt but certainly wrecked one bent it right back and destroyed the wing
-
Had a door opened on me at a petrol station, made one hell of a thud, yet inexplicably no damage, just knocked my mirror flat against the door (previous corsa)
i'm pretty certain that common sense dictates you check your mirror when opening a car door if parked where traffic passes
i very nearly hit someone's door just yesterday, and its unfortunate that some older people who need more space when getting out of a vehicle can often throw their door as far open as it'll physically go without checking the mirror first, making for some heart stopping moments
-
had a few car doors opened on me when i was a despatch rider around london in the early 90's,never hurt but certainly wrecked one bent it right back and destroyed the wing
I know how you feel had two big crashes myself:
1. Rammed off the road by an impatient van driver. I was following a jag downhill (Sheffield) and was having to brake to avoid running into the back of him. White van comes alongside goes wide and then makes contact with me, effectively ramming me off the road into a parked car. I flew over the car into a commando roll (army training coming in useful) and thankfully just bruises. The useleess South Yorkshire Police were 200m behind me on foot patrol when I got up and saw nothing! :o Ironically I got the guys number plate and he was cautioned verbally over the phone! >:(
2. Coming to a junction in Sheffield (again) and a driver failed to see me and pulled out. Halfway out she saw me and slammed the brakes on blocking the road. Giving me no other option I swerved to the side going over a traffic island and busting both wheel rims (sob) she then sped off before I could get her plate to bill her for my new wheels! :'(
I have now fitted an airhorn to my bike, and I position myself more aggressively if I need to and of course the big high power halogens on the front of course! :y
-
...My dad got done for due care & attention.
..what did he get then?
He got a fine but no points. It was about 6 years ago & I think it was £150 but will confirm the details when I see him tonight.
My grandfather was fined 10/- for riding a bike without due care & attention when he collided with a car because he had a violin case across the handlebars & a live chicken under his arm :)
is that a live chicken under each arm? :D
No only the one chicken. He was a teacher & was going give a nature study lesson followed by a music lesson. I was in the 1930s & sex education had not been invented so there was no need for a Cockerel as well! ;)
-
had a few car doors opened on me when i was a despatch rider around london in the early 90's,never hurt but certainly wrecked one bent it right back and destroyed the wing
I know how you feel had two big crashes myself:
1. Rammed off the road by an impatient van driver. I was following a jag downhill (Sheffield) and was having to brake to avoid running into the back of him. White van comes alongside goes wide and then makes contact with me, effectively ramming me off the road into a parked car. I flew over the car into a commando roll (army training coming in useful) and thankfully just bruises. The useleess South Yorkshire Police were 200m behind me on foot patrol when I got up and saw nothing! :o Ironically I got the guys number plate and he was cautioned verbally over the phone! >:(
2. Coming to a junction in Sheffield (again) and a driver failed to see me and pulled out. Halfway out she saw me and slammed the brakes on blocking the road. Giving me no other option I swerved to the side going over a traffic island and busting both wheel rims (sob) she then sped off before I could get her plate to bill her for my new wheels! :'(
I have now fitted an airhorn to my bike, and I position myself more aggressively if I need to and of course the big high power halogens on the front of course! :y
Steer clear (No pun intended :y) of Sheffield! Sounds like a dangerous place to be ;)
-
Quick answer to the original post.
If the act of opening the door knocked the cyclist off, then the plumber carries the vast majority, if not all, the blame. A cyclist in these circumstances is like any other road user and should use good observational skills and road positioning to reduce potential dangers. Those who have done any advanced type driver training know that when passing a parked vehicle, at least one car door width should be left as clearance.
If the door was opened for a sufficiency of time before the approach of the cyclist then apportionment of blame moves to the cyclist as he should then brake or move out to clear.
Its all subjective on a post such as this and really needs the content of statements from witnesses to the event to make a definative descision.
And thats what the insurance companies (and possibly criminal/civil courts) will do, ultimately.....
-
Quick answer to the original post.
If the act of opening the door knocked the cyclist off, then the plumber carries the vast majority, if not all, the blame. A cyclist in these circumstances is like any other road user and should use good observational skills and road positioning to reduce potential dangers. Those who have done any advanced type driver training know that when passing a parked vehicle, at least one car door width should be left as clearance.
If the door was opened for a sufficiency of time before the approach of the cyclist then apportionment of blame moves to the cyclist as he should then brake or move out to clear.
Its all subjective on a post such as this and really needs the content of statements from witnesses to the event to make a definative descision.
And thats what the insurance companies (and possibly criminal/civil courts) will do, ultimately.....
taught in my standard driving lessons, and should be in all parts of the country
-
had a few car doors opened on me when i was a despatch rider around london in the early 90's,never hurt but certainly wrecked one bent it right back and destroyed the wing
I know how you feel had two big crashes myself:
1. Rammed off the road by an impatient van driver. I was following a jag downhill (Sheffield) and was having to brake to avoid running into the back of him. White van comes alongside goes wide and then makes contact with me, effectively ramming me off the road into a parked car. I flew over the car into a commando roll (army training coming in useful) and thankfully just bruises. The useleess South Yorkshire Police were 200m behind me on foot patrol when I got up and saw nothing! :o Ironically I got the guys number plate and he was cautioned verbally over the phone! >:(
2. Coming to a junction in Sheffield (again) and a driver failed to see me and pulled out. Halfway out she saw me and slammed the brakes on blocking the road. Giving me no other option I swerved to the side going over a traffic island and busting both wheel rims (sob) she then sped off before I could get her plate to bill her for my new wheels! :'(
I have now fitted an airhorn to my bike, and I position myself more aggressively if I need to and of course the big high power halogens on the front of course! :y
reminds me of a story my wife told me about when she was younger - walking down the road wearing a particularly short dress ::) and a cyclist decided to pay her quite a lot of attention ;) didn't notice the car infront stop for lights and smacked into the hatchback ;D ;D ;D
-
had a few car doors opened on me when i was a despatch rider around london in the early 90's,never hurt but certainly wrecked one bent it right back and destroyed the wing
I know how you feel had two big crashes myself:
1. Rammed off the road by an impatient van driver. I was following a jag downhill (Sheffield) and was having to brake to avoid running into the back of him. White van comes alongside goes wide and then makes contact with me, effectively ramming me off the road into a parked car. I flew over the car into a commando roll (army training coming in useful) and thankfully just bruises. The useleess South Yorkshire Police were 200m behind me on foot patrol when I got up and saw nothing! :o Ironically I got the guys number plate and he was cautioned verbally over the phone! >:(
2. Coming to a junction in Sheffield (again) and a driver failed to see me and pulled out. Halfway out she saw me and slammed the brakes on blocking the road. Giving me no other option I swerved to the side going over a traffic island and busting both wheel rims (sob) she then sped off before I could get her plate to bill her for my new wheels! :'(
I have now fitted an airhorn to my bike, and I position myself more aggressively if I need to and of course the big high power halogens on the front of course! :y
reminds me of a story my wife told me about when she was younger - walking down the road wearing a particularly short dress ::) and a cyclist decided to pay her quite a lot of attention ;) didn't notice the car infront stop for lights and smacked into the hatchback ;D ;D ;D
Yeah... Aylestone hill!? And boy did my head hurt I can tell you ! ;D ;D ;D
-
had a few car doors opened on me when i was a despatch rider around london in the early 90's,never hurt but certainly wrecked one bent it right back and destroyed the wing
I know how you feel had two big crashes myself:
1. Rammed off the road by an impatient van driver. I was following a jag downhill (Sheffield) and was having to brake to avoid running into the back of him. White van comes alongside goes wide and then makes contact with me, effectively ramming me off the road into a parked car. I flew over the car into a commando roll (army training coming in useful) and thankfully just bruises. The useleess South Yorkshire Police were 200m behind me on foot patrol when I got up and saw nothing! :o Ironically I got the guys number plate and he was cautioned verbally over the phone! >:(
2. Coming to a junction in Sheffield (again) and a driver failed to see me and pulled out. Halfway out she saw me and slammed the brakes on blocking the road. Giving me no other option I swerved to the side going over a traffic island and busting both wheel rims (sob) she then sped off before I could get her plate to bill her for my new wheels! :'(
I have now fitted an airhorn to my bike, and I position myself more aggressively if I need to and of course the big high power halogens on the front of course! :y
reminds me of a story my wife told me about when she was younger - walking down the road wearing a particularly short dress ::) and a cyclist decided to pay her quite a lot of attention ;) didn't notice the car infront stop for lights and smacked into the hatchback ;D ;D ;D
Yeah... Aylestone hill!? And boy did my head hurt I can tell you ! ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D
honestly?
-
;) ;) Nah.... dont do pushbikes! ;D ;D ;D
-
;) ;) Nah.... dont do pushbikes! ;D ;D ;D
well it was at the bottom of Aylestone hill - she didn't stop to see if (you) were all right incase she caused another accident ;)
-
had a few car doors opened on me when i was a despatch rider around london in the early 90's,never hurt but certainly wrecked one bent it right back and destroyed the wing
I know how you feel had two big crashes myself:
1. Rammed off the road by an impatient van driver. I was following a jag downhill (Sheffield) and was having to brake to avoid running into the back of him. White van comes alongside goes wide and then makes contact with me, effectively ramming me off the road into a parked car. I flew over the car into a commando roll (army training coming in useful) and thankfully just bruises. The useleess South Yorkshire Police were 200m behind me on foot patrol when I got up and saw nothing! :o Ironically I got the guys number plate and he was cautioned verbally over the phone! >:(
2. Coming to a junction in Sheffield (again) and a driver failed to see me and pulled out. Halfway out she saw me and slammed the brakes on blocking the road. Giving me no other option I swerved to the side going over a traffic island and busting both wheel rims (sob) she then sped off before I could get her plate to bill her for my new wheels! :'(
I have now fitted an airhorn to my bike, and I position myself more aggressively if I need to and of course the big high power halogens on the front of course! :y
reminds me of a story my wife told me about when she was younger - walking down the road wearing a particularly short dress ::) and a cyclist decided to pay her quite a lot of attention ;) didn't notice the car infront stop for lights and smacked into the hatchback ;D ;D ;D
Yeah... Aylestone hill!? And boy did my head hurt I can tell you ! ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D
honestly?
Could have been my bro... he got a new triathlon bar to help with his commute and the odd competition. He turned onto the main road got down on the bar and started to wind it upto the usual 25mph we get to on our training sessions.
He had his head down and didnt see a parked van (parked illegally mind)which he hit the windscreen headfirst - thank god he was wearing a helmet! He hit the windscreen so hard he put it in by at least a foot :o compressed his spine and cut his face, thankfully nothing serious but we did joke that he was now 6'2 rather than his usual 6'4 ;D
The other plus side is that my mum has worked for Victim Support for the last 14 years and there isnt a local copper who doesnt owe her a favour so they called me straight away and told the owner that if he tried to get my bro to pay for the screen they would tow his car for illegal parking leading to an accident (or something to that affect)
-
had a few car doors opened on me when i was a despatch rider around london in the early 90's,never hurt but certainly wrecked one bent it right back and destroyed the wing
I know how you feel had two big crashes myself:
1. Rammed off the road by an impatient van driver. I was following a jag downhill (Sheffield) and was having to brake to avoid running into the back of him. White van comes alongside goes wide and then makes contact with me, effectively ramming me off the road into a parked car. I flew over the car into a commando roll (army training coming in useful) and thankfully just bruises. The useleess South Yorkshire Police were 200m behind me on foot patrol when I got up and saw nothing! :o Ironically I got the guys number plate and he was cautioned verbally over the phone! >:(
2. Coming to a junction in Sheffield (again) and a driver failed to see me and pulled out. Halfway out she saw me and slammed the brakes on blocking the road. Giving me no other option I swerved to the side going over a traffic island and busting both wheel rims (sob) she then sped off before I could get her plate to bill her for my new wheels! :'(
I have now fitted an airhorn to my bike, and I position myself more aggressively if I need to and of course the big high power halogens on the front of course! :y
Steer clear (No pun intended :y) of Sheffield! Sounds like a dangerous place to be ;)
Yeah not been back since I left Uni, cycled out of necessity but down those hills it was fun! ::)
Now I cycle for training its also good for getting rid of my demons :y
-
Well just my little bit as another Sheffield cyclist commuting to work most days, yes I think it's your plumber's fault and I suppose he can expect a claim - surely we do all check before opening our doors.....?
Should the cyclist have allowed clearance around the door?
Yes there's definitely an argument there but in my experience not really practical on the road where other users are doing their best to crowd you out.
Should cyclists pay road tax?
I don't see a great case for this, cyclists do little significant damage / wear to roads and are probably already contributing via other taxes. I'm personally already paying road tax through my car, I'm sure you won't begrudge me a little cycle use on the back of that.
Should cyclists be (third party) insured? Actually I think they should, tho' I don't know how to enforce it. Wouldn't cost a lot for the cyclist and would be protection for them too, especially if it included a legal insurance policy to recover damages caused to cyclists through injury.
Sadly there's a lot of conflict between cyclists and other road users.
I'll admit to a few red mist moments on the bike - being pushed around / threatened by cars tends to cause a big rush of adrenalin which can easily be converted to aggression - I'm trying very hard not to rise to it these days!!