Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: omega2018 on 04 November 2014, 17:00:09
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i have a broken rear spring - went with a loud bang while stationary and is snapped in the middle. still drives ok except for speed bumps. shock on the other side rear is knackered too. vaux want £800 to replace both rear shocks and springs that is so ridiculous i didn't even check if they were self levelling ones. kwikfit don't do self levelling shocks or springs and wanted £180 to replace the lot with standard. however they thought it might not be possible to convert. reckon i can do it myself for £70 and that includes buying a spring compressor. it doesn't seem possible to easily obtain the self levelling parts, at least not at sensible prices.
question is has anyone converted from self levelling to standard? i understand i need to do both the springs and shocks (thanks chrisgixer) and both sides and tie up the airline but anything else? pull the fuse on the pump? can it be done?
car also has removable tow bar this seems to be a complication for choice of springs too.
thanks
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Assuming it works, keep the self leveling and fit the heaviest duty springs you can get :y
New self leveling shocks are VX only :'( but if you do any towing you would be mad not to keep the system imho...
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Yeh you'll need to pull the fuse (or just disconnect loom at the pump end) to stop the pump running.
Personally, as you say one of the shocks is kaput, I'd fit Bilstein B4's as they are a more refined shock absorber than the standard Self levelling ones and cheaper to buy, but that's just my opinion and it'd be a shame if we all thought the same! B4's will also take lower riding springs if you ever wanted to take that route, I presume not though if you are utilising the towbar.
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Mine has "standard" springs and shocks, notice the difference....err no!
But then again mine is a saloon, I don't tow and don't often load up the boot with anything heavy.
My air pump now resides in the garage as I didn't see the point in leaving it on the car.
Seems to be a fix for a problem that wasn't there as my last estate didn't have self levelling, carried an unbelievable amount in the back without an issue and the ride was better than the Elite with low profiles.
So it depends on what you want from the car.
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Assuming it works, keep the self leveling and fit the heaviest duty springs you can get :y
New self leveling shocks are VX only :'( but if you do any towing you would be mad not to keep the system imho...
Are we talking a certain brand or springs suited for a certain model?
(had the rear wheels off today and spotted a broken spring pig tail)
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Mine has "standard" springs and shocks, notice the difference....err no!
But then again mine is a saloon, I don't tow and don't often load up the boot with anything heavy.
My air pump now resides in the garage as I didn't see the point in leaving it on the car.
thanks magwheels do i take that to mean you switched the car to standard springs and shocks? was it straightforward?
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Assuming it works, keep the self leveling and fit the heaviest duty springs you can get :y
New self leveling shocks are VX only :'( but if you do any towing you would be mad not to keep the system imho...
Are we talking a certain brand or springs suited for a certain model?
(had the rear wheels off today and spotted a broken spring pig tail)
Not had to buy any springs for my (ab)used 270k mile ex plod... so if anyone has a spare set of plod springs they would be my budget suggestion... ride height is unaffected.
Presumably both Boge and KYB springs are readily available in both self leveling and standard guise, so the suggestion would be to fit standard springs with self leveling shocks, especially if towing... as this would retain functionality whilst making the ride a touch less wallowy than the Elite set up :-\
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Got a set here for a saloon.....can't give em away ::)
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These are gsfs current stock.
http://www.lesjofors-automotive.com/automotive-springs/coil-springs.asp
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wow standard springs vary in price from £10 to over £70 each. it's difficult to see how such a wide range can be justified unless some are gold plated.
to assist anyone else here is a xref list i came across
FAI SP073 / CCPSP073
AMK CS23296
APEX 432578
BOGE 25-E48-0
KAYABA RJ5413
KAYABA RJ5414
KAYABA RJ6228
KAYABA RX5414
KILEN 60640
KILEN 71026
LESJOFORS 4263426
LESJOFORS 4294635
MONROE SP0434
QUINTON HAZELL QSS2650
ROC CS3209
ROC CS3300
SACHS BOGE (HI-DRIVE) 25E480
SUPLEX 23296
SUPLEX 23297
SUPLEX 23379
VAUXHALL - OEM 424003
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Got a set here for a saloon.....can't give em away ::)
There you are Migmog :y
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yes have pm'd him thanks but i'm currently looking at, for non self levelling, new FAI coils £10 each, new KYB excelG shocks at £20 a time. are those makes ok?
cheap spring compressor, pair, £6.50 or £10 for twin hook ones which look safer?
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Sl can be disabled by pulling one of the two small black relays in the top of the drivers fuse box. One is main beam, tother is sl. So pull one, if your main beam still works, you gave the right one. ...you can pull fuse 27 to disable the circuit, but that also disables the rear 12volt socket.
As said on tother thread though, any springs will work with SL shocks. So cheapest option, if your sl shocks are good, is just get standard springs, and be done. Keep sl, Especially if you tow.
Spring compressor not needed. See guide :y
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are you sure that any springs will do for self levelling? catalogue says 'except automatic self levelling device' alongside most of them.
having said that the broken spring is marked 'LR' (looked like LA but must be LR) which apparently is for an estate ( 90542361 ) . my car is a saloon. perhaps that's why it broke.
how long can I drive on a broken spring? seems Ok except on bumps. broken side is under an inch down on other side.
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ANY springs will work with sl. Plod run them with rough road package, and all sorts. Members here are running standard springs with sl. I've used standard and mv6 lsc with sl. Works well.
Where some fall foul with sl, is when the sl shocks fail. Then fitting standard shocks with the original sl springs on the Elite. Elite suspension is soft. Very soft. So the springs are soft (and therefore weak and prone to break) and the rears rely on the self levelling air bladders to hold them up.
Take the sl shocks away from the sl springs and the ride height drops, the car drags its arse on the road and rolls around all over the place, as there's no ride adjustment to hold the sl springs up.
So, if you want to keep sl. Just change the springs.
If you want to bin sl, change bothn shocks and springs. And pull the relay.
(Look to fit the same type of springs on the front at some stage too)
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Should add, all springs will hold their own correct ride height. Except Sl springs. Hence the problem with them.
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It's also worth checking the condition of the sl shocks, before deciding which way you want to go with this.
They have a habit of rusting badly under the bladders. To the point they rust through completely and loose their oil, resulting in loss of damping and give a banging noise over bumps as the road wheel bounces around, literally leaving the road surface.
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I personally would keep the s/l suspension set up - I regularly tow a heavy trailer with a 3.2 Elite saloon and the s/l set up works very well. What reinforced how good the system is was when I broke the pigtail off both springs in a short space of time and the back end was a lot lower than normal under load; the cause being the compressor had given up the ghost. A replacement compressor, two genuine VX 'LA' springs and the ride height has been restored, and the ride height when towing barely different from solo. S/l suspension ? Wouldn't change it for standard at all....
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If anyone can say what the general expected lifespan / wear / mileage on SL rear shocks is, there's an Elite in my local scrappy. Very low mileage. If they're stuffed after 10-15 years no matter what, then of course leave them, but if they're regularly good for 100k, then these could be an option for you to keep the SL setup.
Again, can only repeat - springs not a problem (though if you're really concerned, then, of course, these will have the softer rear springs, too)
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Approximately 125k, just changed again at 255k on my estate :y
The only issue you might have is if the top mount shears when you try and undo it... Once you have got them home, inflate them with an air line and carefully inspect the area of the lower body where the bladders rub... As Chris says, they can corrode spectacularly.
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Ah, thanks. So what would two SL dampers with 37k on them be worth? :)
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From a hands on point of view, check them fully extended and check the rust below the bladders. If bubbling up, probably not worth fitting. Also check they both compress smoothly, and return smoothly at the same rate and don't stick. Although the bladders do affect the rate of the return stroke, there should be enough rebound left to over come any stiction.
Mileage is a difficult one to apply to sl shocks as it depends how much moisture they encounter. If the owners house is surrounded by trees then the car will take three times as long to dry out, and the under side will rust more. For example.
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105k on my self leveling shocks. Replaced with GM. On inspection they were as said, corroded under the bladders which implies mileage might not be a factor but time.
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I have only had to change s/l shocks when they have started showing signs of leaking i.e. dampness on the lower body below the bladder. Other than that if they look relatively rust free, I would definately get them from the scrapper. Last lot I got from a scrapper were £10 each. They worked fine. Cost also depends on whether the chap in the yard knows exactly what they are!!
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sl shocks first one went 68K/11.5 years and was replaced by previous owner. second is just going now about 85K/14 years.
to replace 2 springs and 2 shocks self levelling is more than the value of the car. have now got standard new FAI springs and QH shocks for total of £57.
if anyone wants one 2 year old vauxhall sl shock cheap let me know. i have the original invoice £120.41!
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thanks magwheels do i take that to mean you switched the car to standard springs and shocks? was it straightforward?
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Sorry for the late reply...I feel asleep downstairs on the sofa (getting old) and tonight was at a Firework show.
Yes changing them is pretty straightforward, as previously mentioned do get the right springs to go with the non SL shocks and it will handle and ride just like a CDX or any other non assisted car.
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Hi everyone I have the s/levelling on my omega. Which needs replacing so went to vauxhall after realising that you can't get these anywhere else, now they do sell these but there not cheap think about £130 each(will be doing after Xmas). The other point if I'm correct is with the xenon lights they self level which is tied in to the self levelling. I have a lot of documents from a vauxhall showroom I cleared out a few years ago which relates to most vauxhalls upto 2000. Also includes recall issues and known faults. Pretty sure one of the wiring layout diagrams shows that they are interconnected but double check that one.
Hope this is of some help
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For the cost of these new, it's worth getting trade club membership. See FAQ section re joining abs.
Abs membership £25 iirc. Plus the shocks used to be £150 for the pair on tc. Might be £170 a pair by now....?
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Hi everyone I have the s/levelling on my omega. Which needs replacing so went to vauxhall after realising that you can't get these anywhere else, now they do sell these but there not cheap think about £130 each(will be doing after Xmas). The other point if I'm correct is with the xenon lights they self level which is tied in to the self levelling. I have a lot of documents from a vauxhall showroom I cleared out a few years ago which relates to most vauxhalls upto 2000. Also includes recall issues and known faults. Pretty sure one of the wiring layout diagrams shows that they are interconnected but double check that one.
Hope this is of some help
HID's have a level sensor on the rear suspension arm and the front n/s wishbone regardless of what suspension is fitted - The headlight levelling system has to react a lot quicker than the suspension system can to avoid dazzling oncoming vehicles.
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Thanks for clearing that one for me, will look at trade club though as I don't mind buying genuine parts but any savings would be good.
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bit late for me now i have ordered the parts but it seems there may be an alternative self levelling rear shock (if AC Delco is considered an alternative to GM).
my sl shock is GM part number 72119084 , acdelco do a direct cross interchange, part number 560227
discovered through a useful cross reference website see my post http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=127114.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=127114.0)
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GM owns ACDelco so regardless of the part numbers they are the same shocks. Obviously I'm unfamiliar with the vendors in your neck of the woods but I've made a list of suppliers in The States. Who knows, they might sell in The UK. Remember, shocks for the Monaro/GTO fit the Omega, so any shock made for them will do, but they are not air-shocks. Monroe sells the Air-Max and they are. Hope this helps.
http://cateraowners.forumotion.com/t108-catera-suspension-upgrades-overview#410
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There's a set of the Monroe Air Shocks on Ozzy ebay for $375AU so cheaper to buy GM by the time you've shipped them over :-\
I have an AC Delco thermostat on mine, half the price of a VX one inspite of shipping it from Florida... iirc the seller was Number1GMspares, based in Jacksonville :y
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GM owns ACDelco so regardless of the part numbers they are the same shocks. Obviously I'm unfamiliar with the vendors in your neck of the woods but I've made a list of suppliers in The States. Who knows, they might sell in The UK. Remember, shocks for the Monaro/GTO fit the Omega, so any shock made for them will do, but they are not air-shocks. Monroe sells the Air-Max and they are. Hope this helps.
http://cateraowners.forumotion.com/t108-catera-suspension-upgrades-overview#410
Any experience with air bags in the springs elvin? I'd like to try these, but having issues finding a supplier.
Cliffo B has a set on here from Mad Catz but they have changed management and are no longer helpfull, as the Omega is not officially covered in their range.
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Personal experience.........no, but while researching suspension upgrades for the Catera I found these guys. The kit they sell is for a full blown (unintentional pun, but a good one, no?) air suspension for our cars. Probably not what you want but an email or call to Arizona might yield some answers.
http://www.airbagit.com/Air-Suspension-kits-all-4-wheels-p/fbs-cad-04-kit3.htm
http://www.airbagit.com/v/vspfiles/pages/AirBags_PAGE.htm
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Thanks but I really was looking for a pair of air bags to use in conjunction with the OE self levelling suspension set up.
It would have to be modified to let the air out when not carying a load, as the rear becomes a lot less independant with self levelling activated. So it would be a case of plugging in the relay to activate the air bags of the self levelling when carrying a load, then pull the relay and let the air out when not loaded to let the rear suspension behave normally for general use.
No biggy though as I don't actually carry s load that often. ::) ;D
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Chrisgixer, could you explain further the reasons for using air bag suspension in conjunction with the factory-fit set up? Is it purely a case of 'I want to see if it can be done' for which I applaud you, or is there a weight limit / the Vx shocks not lifting the rear is it should for the loads you wish to carry?
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Oe sl is very good for load carrying. But not very good at damping each side independently when not load carrying. So if not load carrying it's better to bin sl and just use standard shocks. Which is where I am now with my car.
However when load carrying, rarely, the rear is over loaded. It sags and wallows so needs help, especially as camber increases when lower and wears the tyres. Mine are 265 wide and £300 a pair ish. So I don't want uneven wear caused by increased camber from an even lower ride height from load carrying.
Adding air bags within the springs would help the rear.
Self levelling shocks can't achieve what I want as the bladders must be fully inflated all the time or they chafe themselves to bits through normal susoension movement, when the selflevelling is deactivated/no air in the bladders.
So the problem is, oe self levelling is always on. Which I don't want, as it's rubbish for "MY" purposes most of the time.
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Ah, fair enough. I am sure this won't suit your purposes, but I know that all the Omega taxis round my way run with either Estate springs or sometimes with an extra rubber ring installed, just to add another half inch to the ride height. This way the bum of the car is up in the air, but when there's two, three or four people in the car, plus luggage, as there frequently is, is makes a lot of difference to keepign the car on an even keel. A good friend of mine had an Elite, and he did this mod. Now his wife is..... not small... and the council estate he lives is full of speed bumps. Fitting the 'estate springs' (pun not intended) meant the car was almost 'bottoming-out proof'
Obviously not suggesting we all fit estate springs, nor get thinner wives, but I like the low-tech simple but effective approach.
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I didn't know how you intended to use them. The following is an Airlift 1000 air helper spring install video. The Airlift 1000 list doesn't specify the Catera or Omega but I believe they will fit our cars. Watch the video and maybe ask for more details. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjI9ToaUFrw
(http://i2.wp.com/www.airliftcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/60797_v0_1381865713.jpg?zoom=2&resize=748%2C421)
http://www.airliftcompany.com/shop/60797/ (http://www.airliftcompany.com/shop/60797/)
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just to finish off this thread I fitted two new rear qh shocks (non self levelling) and two new pro+power springs today.
i used cheap spring compressors £6 a pair which meant all i had to undo was the anti roll bar bolt, no messing with abs sensors, brake lines, transaxle or exhaust. the compressors were single clamp i think that is better than the double one. i did put some amalgamating rubber tape on the clamp to stop any metal to metal slip. i also shortened them.
the original 13 year old o/s shock was completely knackered rusted through i am amazed it was still working. however the 2 year old n/s one looks like new so i have put it on ebay if anyone needs one.
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Been out in it yet?
Noticed any difference I ride quality?
If the shock was knackered it was probably a bit less wallowy (is that even a word?).
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just to finish off this thread I fitted two new rear qh shocks (non self levelling) and two new pro+power springs today.
i used cheap spring compressors £6 a pair which meant all i had to undo was the anti roll bar bolt, no messing with abs sensors, brake lines, transaxle or exhaust. the compressors were single clamp i think that is better than the double one. i did put some amalgamating rubber tape on the clamp to stop any metal to metal slip. i also shortened them.
the original 13 year old o/s shock was completely knackered rusted through i am amazed it was still working. however the 2 year old n/s one looks like new so i have put it on ebay if anyone needs one.
The springs? ???
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i shortened the spring compressors otherwise they would obstruct installing the springs. with hindsight i would have used straps instead and cut them or perhaps just used the jack to compress in situ as it takes ages to unwind a compressor with a non ratchet spanner and my socket wouldn't fit in the gap.
will test ride it now and report back. i always found the elite sl suspension a bit hard so am hoping it will be a softer ride.
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You done well to get a spring compressor in the limited space.
Getting the new spring in was a challenge i guess.
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Failed SL shocks can bang, when the road wheel bounces off bumps and lands on the road surface, due to loss of damping.
Coupled with a busted spring, it could "appear" as though the ride is hard. But Elite suspension is actually very soft. Very very soft. There is certainly no rushing it.
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Seen the Monroe Ride levellers on sale from the usual online sources for about £135 for a pair. They look the same as VX ones? I vaguely remember an old post saying they worked as a replacement for self levellers. Can anyone confirm?
I fitted some to my old 2.0 litre to lift its bum up a bit after the LPG was installed. Had to pump them up manually every once in a while, but it meant I could actually carry passengers and go over speed bumps. :y
May get some more as spares for my 3.0 litre Elite, if they work. :y
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Iirc (and I'm not sure I do) the connectors may not be the same. Worth checking.?
They are good for retrofitting to non elite cars though most certainly.
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I removed the SL from my Elite and fitted MV6 suspension all round :) it certainly improved the handling...
Iv now got lowered suspension, which is quite low, Im thinking of changing back to the MV6 suspension just for the winter, otherwise I'll be driving a snowplough through the streets... thats if it snows this year of course LOL
I removed the rear SL shocks and simply replaced them with the MV6 shocks, the springs I literally levered out with a crowbar, didn't bother with the spring compressors...