Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: sjc on 11 January 2015, 13:08:17
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I'll shortly be selling my '99 3L MV6 manual which has been tweaked a little - Bill Blydenstein heads, 3.2 manifolds, Jetex exhaust, Red Dot Racing chip, AC/EGR/SAI removed, Eibach springs, Bilstein shocks, Irmscher front bumper, rear bumber dechromed and fully painted. Also has Elite interior with Bose and rear blind.
Sad thing is, I suspect it will be worth more broken than as a full car.
I have a fair idea what most parts would fetch but have never seen another pair of Bill Blydenstein heads being traded. Anyone have a feeling for what they'd be worth?
Cheers.
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No idea, never seen them come up before. What performance increase are they supposed to give?
It seems a shame to break up a running car but it wouldn't be the first time.
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Think somebody took the company over,and it lost its way after then.Blydenstien died in 2006.
As others said its worth more as a sum of its parts.
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No idea, never seen them come up before. What performance increase are they supposed to give?
It seems a shame to break up a running car but it wouldn't be the first time.
Pulls like a train from 4k upwards - I'd say an extra 25bhp from the heads and maybe another 15-20bhp combined from the 3.2 manifolds, Jetex exhaust and Red Dot chip. Must get it rolling roaded soon.
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No idea, never seen them come up before. What performance increase are they supposed to give?
It seems a shame to break up a running car but it wouldn't be the first time.
Pulls like a train from 4k upwards - I'd say an extra 25bhp from the heads and maybe another 15-20bhp combined from the 3.2 manifolds, Jetex exhaust and Red Dot chip. Must get it rolling roaded soon.
With that work done might be 30hp extra at flywheel, the heads and exhaust side help it flow better,so its working more effectively,
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No idea, never seen them come up before. What performance increase are they supposed to give?
It seems a shame to break up a running car but it wouldn't be the first time.
Pulls like a train from 4k upwards - I'd say an extra 25bhp from the heads and maybe another 15-20bhp combined from the 3.2 manifolds, Jetex exhaust and Red Dot chip. Must get it rolling roaded soon.
Dream on!
You may get up to 10bhp more from ported heads....its the exhaust manifolds that are the issue.
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Can you tell us is this was 'breathed on' by the man himself at the helm? (ie: before/after his death in 2006) Even if it doesn't offer that much in power, it's got kudos in the 'collectablility' for a Vauxhall nut :)
Cheers :)
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Mark - I can dream can't I ;D
DBG - these were done in 1999, definitely by the man himself, the engine is from a '95 Manual Elite (retail, not plod) owned at the time by ABS member Graham Morris.
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Thanks for the reply sjc. Ok -
so... (and this question is open to all OOFers to reply to, really, as well as the seller) what is the difference with these heads, over a normal 3litre V6?
and Mr DTM - is it right, then, that 3.2 manifolds are giving extra breathing and the extra oomph in this case? If one understands his basic engine design correctly, ported heads plus larger manifold = easier breathing. Easier breathing = not massively more power per se, but an engine with an easier driving nature.
Is any of this compatible with/waste of time fitting to a 2.5 V6? (which at some point will get fitted with G cams as well)
Thanks! :y
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Reality is that the head design on the Ecotec is pretty good out the box (true of most modern head designs).
All you can do is match the inlets to the heads and flow the inlets a little plus remove any casting flash around where the valve seats are. Little you can do to the valve guides as they are already bulleted and recessed (messing with these will result in heat issues with the exhaust valve and probably more valve wander and guide wear).
Exhaust ports you can flow a bit but again, there not bad, same approach as the inlets actually.
2.6/3.2 manifolds are far better than the 2.5/3.0 (they are pressed steel and not cast, larger capacity and much much smoother), there not up to tubular manifold territory but are a good off the shelf upgrade for not silly money.
To do anything more on the heads would require custom inlet manifolds and larger valves, on the Ecotec larger valves are a challenge as you either end up with small seats (not good, again from an exhaust valve heat perspective) or a shed load of work to fit new seats and lots of head machining.
Its the old basics, get more air in (which the above does) allows more fuel to be added which gives more power and allow the exhaust gas to flow out easier (reduced losses) and you can get better cylinder scavenging.
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Much appreciated. So as per you earlier post, the heads are giving you a teeny bit, the manifolds from a 2.6/3.2 are giving you a bit more.
Just to confirm, when you say "2.6/3.2 manifolds are far better than the 2.5/3.0" we're talking exhaust manifolds, yes?
Sorry to throw another question at you Mark, I'm just eager to know as much as poss about the V6, and always happy when I realise there's more to learn! :y
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I fitted 3.2 manifolds as part of my head gasket job last year. As Mark said the port work that is simple and worthwhile on older engines -like blending in bored holes or tapering the valve guides - is already done and the manifolds fitted so well I couldn't see the point.
With no other changes, it picks up noticeably better at 3000rpm, and revs quicker round to the redline. On the rare occasions I drive it that hard!
Definately a worthwhile mod, especially if you get a good price on the manifolds. Bear in mind that you must use the matching gaskets, which are quite expensive. I'm not sure I'd like to do the job with the heads still on the car though.
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I fitted 3.2 manifolds as part of my head gasket job last year. As Mark said the port work that is simple and worthwhile on older engines -like blending in bored holes or tapering the valve guides - is already done and the manifolds fitted so well I couldn't see the point.
With no other changes, it picks up noticeably better at 3000rpm, and revs quicker round to the redline. On the rare occasions I drive it that hard!
Definately a worthwhile mod, especially if you get a good price on the manifolds. Bear in mind that you must use the matching gaskets, which are quite expensive. I'm not sure I'd like to do the job with the heads still on the car though.
That was going to be my question...how hard is it to change the manifolds with the heads still on?
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If you go by the name of MDTM, easy. For mortals, challenging
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True that.
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Ah, I seee.... well having never removed the head of an engine before, not sure the best place to start is on an X25XE... ::)
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It's not too bad at all. However, first time I kinda had to watch Martin do most of it cos i was confused lol
i'd comfrtably be able to do it again myself with the only help needed in the placing of the heads.
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Cheers, Webby. I never really considered that the heads would have to come off to do the manifold(s), but perhaps that's a job on the back burner, maybe come across some off a 3.2 going silly cheap one day, then leave them in the garage until I don't need the car for a weekend and there's a skilled oofer in the area, that sort of thing. :y
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Because we couldnt get the downpipe to manifold nuts undone on the drivers side i remember we had to undo fannymould from head and remove head, and refit that one in situ.
That wasnt a problem and even i managed to do the nuts for that one.....no chance of a torque wrench, just did them up with the only thing that fit: 13mm on a 1/4" ratchet and some with the gear wrench.
Cant say the passenger side would go as swimmingly though!!! ;)
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Removing the heads to change the manifolds is making things really hard work!
It's not going to be easy to change the passenger side, but adding several hours work and over £100 in parts to make it 'easier' is insane.
I fitted mine because I had the heads off; I didn't lift the heads to fit the manifolds.
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Removing the heads to change the manifolds is making things really hard work!
It's not going to be easy to change the passenger side, but adding several hours work and over £100 in parts to make it 'easier' is insane.
I fitted mine because I had the heads off; I didn't lift the heads to fit the manifolds.
Same as me (new heads were needed following pistons and valves greeting each other).
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Maybe I'll see about collecting the parts together over time, so manifolds, 3.0 heads, and G cams, and do it all in one biiig weekend. At least that way I'd not be ripping the engine to bits 'just' to do one job, and nothing else, which seems a bit wasteful, given the time involved. Hmmm...
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If you`re gonna do that much work you might as well fit the 3.2 block while you`re at it ;)
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You do NOT want 3.0 heads....unless you want to lower your compression ratio.
The easy tune up is 3.0 Cams plus 3.0 lower inlet divider.
2.6/3.2 manifolds then add a bit more but the cams are the main gain area.
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I know that as soon as you start removing that level of stuff, the argument will always be 'hang on, just pick up a scrap 3.0/3.2, and stick that in.' To be honest my reasons for sticking with the original engine, no matter how much or little mods I eventually do are:
Known engine - I know every single piece of work done on that engine for 10 years, and receipts in the FSH dating back to when she was new.
Wear - I know for a fact that my lickle V6 engine has never been stressed or hurried, certainly in the last decade, and did mostly motorway rep miles before then. Again, in the last 10 years, apart from trying to get her run right over the last few months (now sorted) she's practically never been over 3,000rpm! :D
Sentimental - yes, sad though it is, I couldn't bear to actually rip her heart out, and stick another one in. On a more practical level, there really is nothing wrong with the engine, and just throwing any engine in the bin just goes against the grain, for me.
These Blydenstein heads are giving me sleepless nights! Can someone bung a price up so I can say 'ah well, out of my price range. Was a nice idea, but not to be' ... anything over £20, really :D ;D :y
EDIT: Thanks Mark. I remember a thread a while ago now you mention it - couldn't remember which way round it went... 3.0 heads on a 2.5 = higher or lower CR. Riiiight, that's that out, then, phew! I was about to get poor again!! :y
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There is nothing on those Bilstein heads that you cant do yourself in the garage over a few evenings.
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... she's practically never been over 3,000rpm! :D...
.. and all the benefits will be over 3,000 RPM, so maybe you can save yourself the effort? ;)
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There is nothing on those Bilstein heads that you cant do yourself in the garage over a few evenings.
Might find them a bit bouncy ;D
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... she's practically never been over 3,000rpm! :D...
.. and all the benefits will be over 3,000 RPM, so maybe you can save yourself the effort? ;)
Ah worry not, once she's restored and in my hands she'll be having plenty of 3,000rpm action.. she's earned it! :y
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Just come and buy my 3.0L engine 8)