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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: F1 9LFG on 28 January 2015, 20:03:10

Title: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 28 January 2015, 20:03:10
Hi all

I'm looking to purchase a cheap welder for home use, welding odds & sods up to a max of 4mm. I've never used a welder before...

Looking at https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/010110125

from what I gather from google I'm best off getting a MIG welder and maybe a gas-less as it's simplier - I know the welds will not be as clean but from what I'll be doing that won't matter.

Can anyone offer any advice/point me in the right direction?

Thanks all!
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 January 2015, 20:40:20
That looks like a nice piece of kit especially as it will weld gas or gasless.

Mig is certainly the one that most people start with as teaching yourself using the welding forums as guidance is very achievable.

I bought the Clarke 135te as it came with everything I needed inc. gas, wire, tips, nozzle etc.

The review on the one you're looking at says it has 135 amps. If you use the calculator on the migwelding forum it tells you that the max you'll be able to weld with full penetration is 3.5mm. MarksDTM told me it's nearer 2.5mm and having done loads of oractise I'm inclined to  agree
. However, if the work you're doing isn't critical (I.e. If you get it wrong you're going to die) then 4 mm is probably achievable.

I'm not the sharpest of cookies but I've got comfortable with mig now after a few hours of practise. Some guys say you should be laying beautiful welds in half hour lol 'dangle berries'  ;)

As long as you have lots of time to learn you'll be good  :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 January 2015, 20:57:30
Oh and check out chucke2009 on YouTube. Mig welding 4 part series from real basics like setting up your welder, through how to strike an arc, stick out etc right through to vertical up welding. In an easy to understand format.

HTH  :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: TheBoy on 28 January 2015, 21:43:04
I really must get my Clarke 135TE out of the box  :-[

On the upside, I shoved a plug on the plasma cutter at the weekend, and get started cutting anything I could find  ::)
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Entwood on 28 January 2015, 21:55:14
I really must get my Clarke 135TE out of the box  :-[

On the upside, I shoved a plug on the plasma cutter at the weekend, and get started cutting anything I could find  ::)

so .. now you have the cutter and the welder .. when are you going to start doing lambda sensor moving in exchange for beer tokens ???

:)
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: TheBoy on 28 January 2015, 21:57:09
I really must get my Clarke 135TE out of the box  :-[

On the upside, I shoved a plug on the plasma cutter at the weekend, and get started cutting anything I could find  ::)

so .. now you have the cutter and the welder .. when are you going to start doing lambda sensor moving in exchange for beer tokens ???

:)
Mine don't need doing :P

Always willing to practice...  ...as long as its not my car ;D
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 28 January 2015, 22:00:36
Got your metal today TB. Will pop up hopefully this weekend  :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: TheBoy on 28 January 2015, 22:04:16
Got your metal today TB. Will pop up hopefully this weekend  :y
Shit, that means I'll be forced to open the welder box ;D

No hurry, honestly.
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 January 2015, 19:27:25
Got your metal today TB. Will pop up hopefully this weekend  :y
Shit, that means I'll be forced to open the welder box ;D

No hurry, honestly.

 ;D Yep you need to pull ya finger out!  ::) ;)
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 30 January 2015, 22:33:52
thanks for your posts Webby - I brought the welder today so hopefully I'll have a crack tomorrow.

Is there anything I need to know about if I plan to spot weld some 2.5mm galvanised steel wire? I'm going to attempt making a dog cage that fits in the car.....

Looking to buy some 6'x3' mesh panels tomorrow.

I know I'll need to grind off the galv coating to where I want to weld.

Thanks
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: TheBoy on 31 January 2015, 11:21:12
Practice on the offcuts first. You don't want a weld to fail in life, as the sharp edges won't do woofy any favours :)
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: r1 on 31 January 2015, 16:52:10
Practice on the offcuts first. You don't want a weld to fail in life, as the sharp edges won't do woofy any favours :)

do it outside
and buy a mask!
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 31 January 2015, 18:24:35
+1 to both the above comments. I've never welded galvanised steel but you need to be dang careful with regards to fumes. Do it outside (easy for you as you've gone gasless) and wear a respirator.

And as TB says, don't go straight on to a project having not practised cos you will mess it up. Trust me, it's an art. And with any art you need practise. As mentioned before there's loads on the net saying you should be laying good welds within an hour with mig. Well to lay a good bead took me around 5 hours of trigger time! Yeah, a long time but I'm glad I took my time to learn as now if something's not right I generally know what's going wrong.

One final point. As you are going to be using flux core wire you will need a slag hammer and chip the slag off each weld. Or you can cut a sharp piece of steel with an angle grinder and use that.

. . . .  Which brings me on to another point. Get a cheap Argos angle grinder and some grinding and cutting discs to be able to fabricate your steel  :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: symes on 01 February 2015, 01:23:01
fumes from galvanised metals give off cyanide--yellow smoke--makes you sick or worse--please be careful
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: EMD on 01 February 2015, 12:49:59
Hi all

I'm looking to purchase a cheap welder for home use, welding odds & sods up to a max of 4mm. I've never used a welder before...

Looking at https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/010110125

from what I gather from google I'm best off getting a MIG welder and maybe a gas-less as it's simplier - I know the welds will not be as clean but from what I'll be doing that won't matter.

Can anyone offer any advice/point me in the right direction?

Thanks all!

Let us know how you get on with that welder , not a bad price  :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 01 February 2015, 21:12:01
Also use this calculator for settings / wire speed to get you started and tweak...

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/calculator.htm

Damn site better than what Clarke recommend in the manual  :-X
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 02 February 2015, 21:07:27
I have done alot of welding on cars and with my job too...
Probably the best advise would be to make what your welding as clean as possible. With that I mean clean from rust ( so go back to bare steel ) ... paint, grease etc....

Another thing I still do now is listen to the sound the welder makes when you pull the trigger. Your listening for a nice crisp crackling sound... Get some scrap steel (I would say the thinker the better to start with) holding your torch over the steel, pull the trigger whilst the other hand alters the wire speed up and down... if the wire speed is too high it will sound like its spitting, much too high you may even feel the torch moving as the wire is almost stabbing the steel if that makes sense.... turn the thing up onto full then down too minimum. ..see for yourself

Getting yourself comfortable,  able to see where your supossed to be welding... ( sounds silly, yet I am trying to teach an apprentice at work how to weld. I seem to be telling him that his wrist actually moves, and that he can move his head into a different position to enable him to see the two pieces of steel he is trying to weld...
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 02 February 2015, 21:11:10
I have done alot of welding on cars and with my job too...
Probably the best advise would be to make what your welding as clean as possible. With that I mean clean from rust ( so go back to bare steel ) ... paint, grease etc....

Another thing I still do now is listen to the sound the welder makes when you pull the trigger. Your listening for a nice crisp crackling sound... Get some scrap steel (I would say the thinker the better to start with) holding your torch over the steel, pull the trigger whilst the other hand alters the wire speed up and down... if the wire speed is too high it will sound like its spitting, much too high you may even feel the torch moving as the wire is almost stabbing the steel if that makes sense.... turn the thing up onto full then down too minimum. ..see for yourself

Getting yourself comfortable,  able to see where your supossed to be welding... sounds silly, yet I am trying to teach an apprentice at work how to weld. I seem to be telling him that his wrist actually moves, and that he can move his head into a different position to enable him to see the two pieces of steel he is trying to weld...


Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: CaptainZok on 02 February 2015, 21:45:38
I have done alot of welding on cars and with my job too...
Probably the best advise would be to make what your welding as clean as possible. With that I mean clean from rust ( so go back to bare steel ) ... paint, grease etc....

Another thing I still do now is listen to the sound the welder makes when you pull the trigger. Your listening for a nice crisp crackling sound... Get some scrap steel (I would say the thinker the better to start with) holding your torch over the steel, pull the trigger whilst the other hand alters the wire speed up and down... if the wire speed is too high it will sound like its spitting, much too high you may even feel the torch moving as the wire is almost stabbing the steel if that makes sense.... turn the thing up onto full then down too minimum. ..see for yourself

Getting yourself comfortable,  able to see where your supossed to be welding... ( sounds silly, yet I am trying to teach an apprentice at work how to weld. I seem to be telling him that his wrist actually moves, and that he can move his head into a different position to enable him to see the two pieces of steel he is trying to weld...
You forgot the bit about your fire watcher not buggering off while you set his car on fire Dazzle.
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 02 February 2015, 21:57:25
 ;D ;D
now thats a while ago...and was so funny ;D
Opening the boot to find clouds of smoke bellowing out ;D
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 02 February 2015, 22:16:05
thanks all for your comments. I have breathing mask & face/head/eye mask with an auto-dimming function that works very well.

I've laid quite a few welds on scrap bits and I am getting fairly good results.

Thanks for the 'wire speed tip' managed to get a much better seem after using my ears to hear the sound difference.

I see that galvanised fumes are deadly!! I'll be grinding the coating off as best as possible in the areas I'll be welding. Most of the welds will be spot weld as I'll be using a lot of welded-wire-mesh for the walls.

I'll be starting the dog cage the weekend so will take photos and post here.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 03 February 2015, 18:05:19
I hear you're the man when it comes to welding, Daz  :y

Spot on about the sizzling sound. They say it sounds like bacon sizzling.... I'd say it sounds more like tearing cloth i.e. the sound when you rip a t-shirt in two.
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 February 2015, 12:04:09
Good luck with your project mate.

This is todays progress on the welding cart. it'd be done now if my fit up wasn't bad and I had to go back and correct it  :-[ I basically got carried away with the welding, forgot to tack stuff and it subsequently moved out of position  :-[

...I can smell the paint though  :)

 Just going to have a spot of lunch and then angled supports for the top tool tray, then the wheels, then a handle and ill see if I candig out a big enough plate for the tray  :-X if I can get that done before the end of the day ill slap some primer on  :y

(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/welding%20cart%20almost%20done%20001_zpsfuxjksvy.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/welding%20cart%20almost%20done%20001_zpsfuxjksvy.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 04 February 2015, 19:15:50
Mitered corners always look better on Box Section :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 04 February 2015, 23:46:18
Completely agree mate. Sadly though I only have an angle grinder so I did it this way to avoid bad fit up. I'll then go in and fill in the holes with 1" square pieces welded in. Bit more hassle but as said fitment seems poor when trying to cut straight lines with the grinder.

Almost done though...

(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/almost%20there%20weld%20cart%20002_zpsmfpjn7n5.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/almost%20there%20weld%20cart%20002_zpsmfpjn7n5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Andy B on 04 February 2015, 23:56:53
...... I basically got carried away with the welding, forgot to tack stuff and it subsequently moved out of position  :-[ ....

When welding you always have to tack the whole thing up before welding proper ...... even then, it'll move a bit.

Mitred corners don't have to an exact 45 degs, the weld will fill the gaps ..... within reason  ;)
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 05 February 2015, 08:07:07
Definitely Andy  :y As said I just forgot  :-[ eager bear! haha  ;D
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: EMD on 05 February 2015, 18:36:23
Almost done though...

(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/almost%20there%20weld%20cart%20002_zpsmfpjn7n5.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/almost%20there%20weld%20cart%20002_zpsmfpjn7n5.jpg.html)


Cant see , did you grind the welds back  :-\
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 05 February 2015, 20:52:32
Nah, not yet steve. Couple more things to do. . . Grind, handle, tool tray plate, prime n paint  :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 10 February 2015, 20:34:36
Well thanks to all of you for your help so far. I brought the Clarke 140amp gas/no-gas welder and have been using it without gas (flux-core wire) and I'm very pleased. I know I'm not actually 'MIG' welding as I'm not using gas, more Arc welding but nonetheless I'm getting the results. Using 2mm angled mild steel & 2mm welded wire mesh the dog cage is taking shape!

I'm having to grind my welds flat as firstly, they are not that great yet! and secondly once it's finished it'll be powder coated so I need a smooth finish.

so.....
Square frame welded with Mitres and one of the side walls done.

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/001.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/001.jpg.html)

Getting the angles right as I want to maximise the surface area of the boot for when the dogs are laying down.

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/002.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/002.jpg.html)

Both side walls finished and the rear brace in place

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/003.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/003.jpg.html)



(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/004.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/004.jpg.html)

I keep sliding it in and out the car to ensure nothing is out of place and to make sure it is removable!

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/005.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/005.jpg.html)

Weather permitting I can manage another few hours at it this weekend and I'll update photos from there.

Again - thanks for the help & advice!

Rob  :y

Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 February 2015, 20:48:05
Looking good mate. Did you do much practising before embarking on the dog cage?
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 10 February 2015, 21:45:46
Looking good mate. Did you do much practising before embarking on the dog cage?

Cheers, I did indeed. I carried out some simple seem welds and lap welds - mainly to play with amp settings and wire feed speed. The welding of the mesh to the angle stuff is more like spot-welding but they are holding well enough so far. I had to break one of mitre welds and ended up bending the steel either side of the weld so that'll do me!

Cheers
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 10 February 2015, 21:50:59
Yeah that's spot on mate. . . If the steel around it bends and your welds don't break then that's good enough. Obviously that's not acceptable for something critical but for a woofer cart I'd say that was spot on.

Out of interest did you not mess up at all? You must be a natural cos I know it took me about 5 hours approx. to get my beads looking acceptable  ;D
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 10 February 2015, 22:14:17
Yeah that's spot on mate. . . If the steel around it bends and your welds don't break then that's good enough. Obviously that's not acceptable for something critical but for a woofer cart I'd say that was spot on.

Out of interest did you not mess up at all? You must be a natural cos I know it took me about 5 hours approx. to get my beads looking acceptable  ;D

Well if I'm honest my beeds are not great when left exposed. I know that using flux core leaves a mess'er finish but I wouldn't stand and show off my beeds at the moment! I had an hours practice and a handful of 'youtube' tutorials to aid my learning. the dog cage is a project that'll be 'covered over' as in welds being ground down & painted. If my welds were ever to be left exposed than I'd have to invest in a gas bottle and many hours in the 'man-shed'

I'm very pleased with my first go at welding and I'm sure I'll move on to bigger and better projects!
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: EMD on 11 February 2015, 20:12:21
Coming along nicely , well done  :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 11 February 2015, 20:20:22
Are those strapping hooks in the boot? Maybe an idea to weld something to your dog cage which enables you to keep the cage secure :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 11 February 2015, 20:54:59
Are those strapping hooks in the boot? Maybe an idea to weld something to your dog cage which enables you to keep the cage secure :y

Yep - Thats the plan. The ideal cage (for me) is one that doesn't rattle over bumps etc so hopefully I'll make something up.
 :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 11 February 2015, 20:55:51
Coming along nicely , well done  :y

Cheers - Weather forcast for essex is (currently) good this weekend so fingers crossed I can crack on with it  :)
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 14 February 2015, 22:35:15
UPDATE

Given the nice weather today I managed to get a bit more done  :)

Back and sides now finished

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/IMG_2500.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/IMG_2500.jpg.html)

Started working on the front, the center section will be where the door will go. (not yet figured out what type/operation of door I'll make yet!)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/IMG_2503.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/IMG_2503.jpg.html)

Finished off the other front section and sprayed the whole thing with self-etching primer (this will also prevent anything rusting)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/IMG_2505.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/IMG_2505.jpg.html)

The roof panel is yet to be welded but I thought I'd leave the cage in the 'dog room' so they can get used to it - leaving the roof section off for now should make the dogs feel a little easier getting used to it.

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/IMG_2507.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/IMG_2507.jpg.html)

Sugar (German Shepherd) can easilly stand and get in & out. Honey, (the black Lab) is smaller so has no problem!

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/IMG_2508.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/IMG_2508.jpg.html)

They are getting used to it already! Enough room for them to both lay down (phew!)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z467/sniper441/IMG_2514.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/sniper441/media/IMG_2514.jpg.html)

I'll update the thread during the week/next weekend once the roof is on and the door is fabricated.

Rob  :y
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: tidla on 14 February 2015, 22:50:18
Just out of interest as a cat owner, why a full cage rather than the bars you buy for the headrest area?
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: F1 9LFG on 14 February 2015, 23:05:26
Just out of interest as a cat owner, why a full cage rather than the bars you buy for the headrest area?

Well two reasons. Firstly, when we walk them the dogs rather enjoy a lake or river to play in - this is usually a muddy one. Once finished the cage will have a plastic cover to prevent mud flying everywhere when they shake, (they usually wait until they are 'in' the car to shake!) secondly I've just spent lots of money on a new car and intend to keep it protected from 'dog-damage'
Title: Re: Home DIY Welder advice please
Post by: Webby the Bear on 15 February 2015, 15:24:21
Really professional looking job mate.... you sure you're new to welding?  ::) ;)

As well as a good finish it also looks true (in terms of measurements) so well done :)

Nice woofers too  :y