Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: TheBoy on 05 February 2015, 20:29:27

Title: Mini clutch
Post by: TheBoy on 05 February 2015, 20:29:27
Anyone know about Mini clutches?  The pedal doesn't fully return up when released.

Tried bleeding (but not reverse bleeding yet), no air came out, no difference.

Disconnect the slave from the release arm, there is a fair amount of play in the arm:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/IamTheBoy/Omega%20Odds/43EFE7C2-80B9-47FF-B257-09EB512044D9_zpsivsectyp.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/IamTheBoy/Omega%20Odds/3FDE7675-6AEC-4E80-9B8E-579C2D4E6570_zpsa0vd8jye.jpg)


Don't know whats normal  :-[
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Twintop on 05 February 2015, 21:26:14
That would be the shite bmw mini then  ;D
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Nick W on 05 February 2015, 21:59:00
looks like a 'proper' A-series to me?
I can't see the point of reverse bleeding it as it's a simple system and a short hose.


I'd be removing the cover and having a look at the bearing and the rest of the mechanism. At least Mini clutches are light work.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Twintop on 05 February 2015, 22:01:25
Thought proper mini's were cable like the metro  ;D
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Nick W on 05 February 2015, 22:23:24
Only later A-series Metros were cable; early ones used the same hydraulics as Minis, 1100s and Allegros.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: henryd on 05 February 2015, 23:12:44
Where the operating rod goes through the aluminium cover is prone to corrosion and seizure,I'd be oiling that bit up then work the pedal to free it up
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Lazydocker on 05 February 2015, 23:16:37
As per other comments... Could be corrosion related.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: dbug on 05 February 2015, 23:51:19
Where the operating rod goes through the aluminium cover is prone to corrosion and seizure,I'd be oiling that bit up then work the pedal to free it up

Agreed - and try reverse bleeding as well ;)
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: flyer 0712 on 06 February 2015, 00:03:34
From memory,,,the clutch cover when new were notorious for being faulty ??????
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: aaronjb on 06 February 2015, 00:20:41
From memory,,,the clutch cover when new were notorious for being faulty ??????

I vividly remember the bang as the pivot point snapped off the clutch cover on my Allegro..
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: TheBoy on 06 February 2015, 11:37:22
Where the operating rod goes through the aluminium cover is prone to corrosion and seizure,I'd be oiling that bit up then work the pedal to free it up
the rod into the clutch, as that's pretty free to be honest. That amount of "play" shown in picture I could do with my little finger.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: TheBoy on 06 February 2015, 11:42:00
That would be the shite bmw mini then  ;D
Sorry, I wouldn't have even graced it with my presence had it been one of those shitboxes.

This is a real Mini :y

It was restored to a good standard by the owner's dad a couple of years back, although the owner did learn to drive in it.  However, she learnt well, and wasn't too harsh on it.


I took it for a blat yesterday, the clutch works very well, its just the pedal only returns up a bit (enough to prevent any slipping, and I could lose front end traction from 1st to 2nd by being rough with it - so believe the clutch isn't shagged per se).

Up til a month or so ago, it used to return all the way up, level with brake pedal.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: henryd on 06 February 2015, 12:04:28
Where the operating rod goes through the aluminium cover is prone to corrosion and seizure,I'd be oiling that bit up then work the pedal to free it up
the rod into the clutch, as that's pretty free to be honest. That amount of "play" shown in picture I could do with my little finger.

I don't mean the arm attached to the cylinder,I'm talking about the bit with the two nuts on :y
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Nick W on 06 February 2015, 12:55:39
There should be a return spring, that hooks into a little metalclip on the clevis and back along the slave cylinder. I think there might also be one on the pedal, but can't be certain.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: aaronjb on 06 February 2015, 13:05:03
Yeah, that picture looks like it's missing parts 15, 17 & 18 from this list, to me: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID000968

(The larger picture makes it much clearer where they should go)

Come to think of it the picture looks like it's missing the clevis pin that links the clutch lever to the slave cylinder?
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: The Sheriff on 06 February 2015, 13:08:29
Yeah, that picture looks like it's missing parts 15, 17 & 18 from this list, to me: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID000968

(The larger picture makes it much clearer where they should go)

Come to think of it the picture looks like it's missing the clevis pin that links the clutch lever to the slave cylinder?
That's cause he took it out, you muppet  ;D
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: aaronjb on 06 February 2015, 13:09:23
Fair point.. safe to assume he also removed the return spring assembly, I suppose.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: The Sheriff on 06 February 2015, 13:11:37
Fair point.. safe to assume he also removed the return spring assembly, I suppose.
Probably, but you never know these days... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Matchless on 06 February 2015, 14:46:46
Thats got a much later version of clutch than the Mini I used to maintain weld daily.
If it was restored in the past, do you know if the clutch pedal ever did return to the top properly? There are various sizes of master and slave cylinder over the years.....could wrong mix of bits have been used?
The big nut and lock nut on the end of the clutch cover was for adjusting the 'clutch throwout', or more accurately, to compensate for the variations in machining that crept in between Monday and Friday. That adjustment has to be right for the clutch to behave properly.....but I cant remember what you set it to.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 February 2015, 16:53:24
Is the clutch pedal return spring ok?

Hydraulic hose ok and not collapsing?
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: TheBoy on 07 February 2015, 09:23:56
I know its a "Verto" clutch.

Should there be springs on pedal and one the actual clutch end?

I think there is some kind of spring in the slave cylinder, as it has a natural tendency to push the piston out.

TIA.

Off to have another look in daylight in a minute.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Andy H on 07 February 2015, 10:16:45
Trying to stir the brain cells to remember what was particularly 'odd' about the mini clutch :-\

Something about the clutch being the 'wrong' side of the flywheel because of the drive gear down to the gearbox ? :-\

IIRC the flywheel needs to be pulled off a very tight taper on the and of the crankshaft to get to the clutch. Also there is a thrust bearing (on the crankshaft?) that is prone to failure which screws up the clutch free play when it fails? :-\
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: Andy H on 07 February 2015, 15:05:40
OK

The thrust bearing isn't the Achilles heel I was thinking of (that was on the Triumph Herald & Spitfire engine).

In the mini the clutch release arm has a ball end that engages with a hole in the release plunger. Over time the ball and hole in the release plunger wear leaving too much slack for the slave cylinder to take up.

(http://www.minispares.com/image.axd?type=product&picture=350/DAM5355.jpg)
Clutch lever arm short verto (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/DAM5355.aspx)

(http://www.minispares.com/image.axd?type=product&picture=350/DAM5353.jpg)
Clutch plunger verto (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Clutch/Fittings/DAM5353.aspx?0601&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/plunger.aspx|Back%20to%20search)
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: TheBoy on 07 February 2015, 17:57:27
OK

The thrust bearing isn't the Achilles heel I was thinking of (that was on the Triumph Herald & Spitfire engine).

In the mini the clutch release arm has a ball end that engages with a hole in the release plunger. Over time the ball and hole in the release plunger wear leaving too much slack for the slave cylinder to take up.

(http://www.minispares.com/image.axd?type=product&picture=350/DAM5355.jpg)
Clutch lever arm short verto (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/DAM5355.aspx)

(http://www.minispares.com/image.axd?type=product&picture=350/DAM5353.jpg)
Clutch plunger verto (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Clutch/Fittings/DAM5353.aspx?0601&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/plunger.aspx|Back%20to%20search)
Thanks Andy H, my googling had returned similar things about wear on those components :y.  Although these have been relatively recently replaced on this car when it was restored :)
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: TheBoy on 07 February 2015, 17:58:07
Thanks all, really appreciate the help :y

Went over there today, in daylight, job jobbed :y
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: aaronjb on 07 February 2015, 18:53:11
And the fix was?
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: The Sheriff on 07 February 2015, 18:56:21
And the fix was?
He's not telling, nor about his MOT failure. He likes playing hard to get. Pretend you don't care, then he'll cry. ;D
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: TheBoy on 07 February 2015, 19:46:40
And the fix was?
Ah, yes, good point well presented. Excuse me, I've been nursing a bad headache, following last night's escapades in town  :-[

Pinpointed fault to pedal, so freed all that up, cleaned and regreased, sorted. Broke the brake switch in the process, 'dangle berries'.
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: TheBoy on 07 February 2015, 19:47:49
nor about his MOT failure.
Too frekking right.  I wouldn't have mentioned the air freshener thing a few years ago, but Marks "big gob" DTM had already done it before I got home ;D
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: The Sheriff on 07 February 2015, 19:52:43
nor about his MOT failure.
Too frekking right.  I wouldn't have mentioned the air freshener thing a few years ago, but Marks "big gob" DTM had already done it before I got home ;D
I see. You mean that handsome Mark fella who likes to share with his good friends on the forum? ;D
Title: Re: Mini clutch
Post by: aaronjb on 07 February 2015, 20:03:40
And the fix was?
Ah, yes, good point well presented. Excuse me, I've been nursing a bad headache, following last night's escapades in town  :-[

Pinpointed fault to pedal, so freed all that up, cleaned and regreased, sorted. Broke the brake switch in the process, 'dangle berries'.

Success! Fail! Oh dear.. Still, one fault fixed, eh?