Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 06 February 2015, 10:55:57
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Last night at seven on five.
Quentin Willson and a tall blonde piece of totty were talking in depth about classic cars.
Classic cars as an investment?
Triunph TR7.......£2000-£5000. No thanks. :( :( :(
Bentley Turbo R .......a good one can be had for around £10,000. Prices are rising. :y
Ferrari 456 GT.......currently around the £30,000 mark, but likely to increase significantly in value............Yes please. :y :y :y
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Seem to recall a car mag a bit ago suggested that the Omega is set to be a future classic. My logic is this - in the 80s and 90s every major mass-producing manufacturer made a large executive saloon, F0rd, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Rover, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, but by the end of the 90s, into the 21st century, pretty much the only one left was Vauxhall, as a proper rear-drive machine with a nice number of cylinders that didn't have a chassis honed to be as back-jarring as possible like everything since, that was still affordable. It was comfy, well-specced, well made, and you could get one at one time brand new for £19,995 - that's Astra money now!
I hope that one day the Omega will get truly recognised as a genuine effort by a large-scale manufacturer to beat the 'big boys' at their own game. Lots of makes' efforts wasn't a that serious, just an average car, but a bit larger. But the Omega and Carlton/Sennys before were serious contenders, and truly good, dependable cars. I hope that people will realise just how decent these cars are/were, and the Omega, as the 'last dinosaur' will earn a place in automotive history.
I mean it was so good they brought it back as the Monaro - and the first 'Vauxhall'(ok, Holden) to get praise from Clarkson in many a year! How many cars in history have been axed, and a foreign development of that car has then been re-launched/re-imported to universal praise? I genuinely love the cars, long may they me remembered.
Also, mine's a Bentley Turbo R :y
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The Omega can only go up in value.
A decade from now a £1000 Omega will be £2000. I think. :y
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:y Oooh, if values are set to double at that rate only ten years to wait and mine will be worth £300!! Get in! ;)
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:y Oooh, if values are set to double at that rate only ten years to wait and mine will be worth £300!! Get in! ;)
Each Omega that loses a fight with the crusher only makes the 'survivors' more desirable. :y
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:y
Wish there was a reliable way of knowing how many Omegas are left - the howmanyleft site gets nothing but slated - offering only an approximate, sadly. Wish I knew if it was in the hundreds or thousands. I suppose the next five years will see numbers drop drastically, as the 'natural life' expires. Already barely see any PFLs any more.
(except two this morning! ::))
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:y
Wish there was a reliable way of knowing how many Omegas are left - the howmanyleft site gets nothing but slated - offering only an approximate, sadly. Wish I knew if it was in the hundreds or thousands. I suppose the next five years will see numbers drop drastically, as the 'natural life' expires. Already barely see any PFLs any more.
(except two this morning! ::))
I've no idea how many Omega were produced.
As the production run extended from 1994-2003 I'm guessing about 150,000 in total.
10,000 left?....who knows for sure?
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Best I can find is via Wiki and that states a production run from the Russelsheim plant of 797,011. But that is all 'Omegas' so presumably including the 'A' - and of course, that's Europe-wide (and N American?) sales - so your estimate of 150k sounds well within the realms of probability. Would love an exact production figure, annoying that isn't easy to find.
So after some digging.... Approximate though it is, the howmanyleft number for all Omegas reads as in its first year of sale (1994) 11k sold. Up to and including 2000 there were 11-15k sold per year. As from 2000-2003 there were a theoretical 7, 6 and 1 thousand sold :'(.
These figures do not take into account the number lost through what I can only call 'natural wastage' crashes, theft/fire etc.. So the figure of only 1000 sold in their last year will be a little higher, for sure. By that time there were of course 9 year old Omegas out there, some which would have headed for the scrappies at a higher rate than a year or two before.
To move it forward a bit, since production ended, there have been from 2004 - 4k, 8k, 11k, 11k, 11k, 13k, 10k, 9k, 6k, and 5k and 4k in 2014. The numbers of attrition are moving at a steady 1000 cars lost per quarter, interestingly! The graph slowly levels, of course, it's not like in another 4 quarters there will be 'none' - unless you read the Daily Mail-style graphs and think that in Britain there will be an estimated 100million baby-eating Foreigners by 2020, etc...
Looking ten years previous, there are now a reported 560-ish Carltons - a figure that has hovered around that going down and up for a couple of years now. So in ten years there'll be something like 500 Omegas, we can infer.
Here's my graph from Howmanyleft...
Year On roads Number increase/decrease
2014 13k -4k
2013 17k -5k
2012 22k -6k
2011 28k -9k
2010 37k -10k
2009 47k -13k
2008 60k -11k
2007 71k -11k
2006 82k -11k
2005 93k -8k
2004 101k -4k
2003 105k 1k
2002 104k 6k
2001 98k 7k
2000 91k 11k
1999 80k 14k
1998 66k 14k
1997 52k 11k
1996 41k 15k
1995 26k 15k
1994 11k 11k
Finally I know Howmanyleft isn't accurate, but it's the best we've got! ::) Possibly interesting, possibly dull to read, but it killed half an hour :y
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I don't believe the Omega will ever become a serious classic. A low mileage , mint condition example will fetch a few bob in years to come, but the same can be said of any car tbh.
The only previous large Vauxhall which commands high prices is the LC, and that was a pretty special car regardless of the badge on the bonnet.
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I don't believe the Omega will ever become a serious classic. A low mileage , mint condition example will fetch a few bob in years to come, but the same can be said of any car tbh.
The only previous large Vauxhall which commands high prices is the LC, and that was a pretty special car regardless of the badge on the bonnet.
Indeed. Let's face it, the Senator predates the Omega by a good few years and, for most of its' life, it was distinct from the 4 pot repmobile end of the range occupied by the Carlton, unlike the Omega. It's only really a classic in the eyes of enthusiasts these days, and isn't exactly romping up in value. The Omega can't be expected to fare any better.
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I don't believe the Omega will ever become a serious classic. A low mileage , mint condition example will fetch a few bob in years to come, but the same can be said of any car tbh.
The only previous large Vauxhall which commands high prices is the LC, and that was a pretty special car regardless of the badge on the bonnet.
Absolutely right, cars that I was weened on, early Fords and Mini for example in really good nick are nearing £10k when I was a lad they were changing hands for £100 or less........ :D :D
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Thing is, will today's offerings like the Mondeo, Insignia, Focus and Astra be as sought after in 30 years time as a good condition Cortina, Viva, Escort or Chevette is today? :-\
So what will be the future classics? ??? Crystal ball anyone? ;D
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One thing that, IMHO, will prevent the Omega, and many other modern cars ever becoming "Classics" is the complexity of the designs ...... as parts become NLS from the makers the cars will die .... as an example ... we all know that only genuine Crank sensors work for the V6 Omega, likewise cam cover gaskets .... so what happens when they become NLS ??... then ECU's, coil packs ... etc etc etc
The thing about cortinas, consols, chevettes, even minis, imps etc ...they all were very basic and parts can easily be fabricated .... not so with the modern beast ... :(
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"Modern" classics (like the Carlton, Senator, Omega) just don't look as cool as a proper classic, either, IMHO..
I saw a Moggy Minor on the way home tonight - beautifully restored, yellow Koni shocks just peeking out underneath, period exhaust - and it looked stunning, the kind of car you stop and look at.
Most modern classics of the 80s, 90s & 00s just don't have that kind of look, I don't think (let's face it, most of the cars of those eras are downright ugly!).. ok some exceptions but certainly the luxobarges like the Omega fall into that "nondescript" category.
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Maybe the 'Frog eyed' Scorpio would have been one to stash, as although unloved at the time it was different. ::)
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I bet somewhere there is an Omega with 0 miles on it in mint condition .. it will be for sale in 30 years time . Mite just scratch as being a classic :-\
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The Omega will never make really big money. However, well cared for examples will only go up in value as the days tick by. Just like a cared for Cortina, Victor, or Granada. ::) ::)
I predict £6000-£7000 for the very best 3.2 Elite in a decade from now. :y
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The Omega will never make really big money. However, well cared for examples will only go up in value as the days tick by. Just like a cared for Cortina, Victor, or Granada. ::) ::)
I predict £6000-£7000 for the very best 3.2 Elite in a decade from now. :y
Part of me agrees with you, but the more practical side does not, anything post electrical wizadree will not gain value like an older car. They are not readily fixable by a diy'er who enjoys a tinker at the weekend, on a car that is old skool and therefore pretty much diy'able for almost any job; modern electrics will kill off potential classics of the future imo........ :-\ :-\ :-\
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The Omega will never make really big money. However, well cared for examples will only go up in value as the days tick by. Just like a cared for Cortina, Victor, or Granada. ::) ::)
I predict £6000-£7000 for the very best 3.2 Elite in a decade from now. :y
A modern ish day car really needs the X factor , like a factory fitted
turbo or impressive 0-60 ... something unusual :-\
But then again who would have thought the Allegro would come collectible . ::)
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The Omega will never make really big money. However, well cared for examples will only go up in value as the days tick by. Just like a cared for Cortina, Victor, or Granada. ::) ::)
I predict £6000-£7000 for the very best 3.2 Elite in a decade from now. :y
A modern ish day car really needs the X factor , like a factory fitted
turbo or impressive 0-60 ... something unusual :-\
But then again who would have thought the Allegro would come collectible . ::)
Maybe the All-aggro fits into Mr Vamps 'readily fixable' category.
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The Omega will never make really big money. However, well cared for examples will only go up in value as the days tick by. Just like a cared for Cortina, Victor, or Granada. ::) ::)
I predict £6000-£7000 for the very best 3.2 Elite in a decade from now. :y
A modern ish day car really needs the X factor , like a factory fitted
turbo or impressive 0-60 ... something unusual :-\
But then again who would have thought the Allegro would come collectible . ::)
Maybe the All-aggro fits into Mr Vamps 'readily fixable' category.
My mate smashed through a 6ft brick wall in one , still drove it home :D :D ;D ;D ;D
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I agree with comments that the Omega, as with any car won't be worth anything more than any other car in a similar state of excellent condition. But I also have the thought that as with Allegros, TR7s etc, they had a period where people considered them just too ordinary and mass market to ever be collectible, and now they're suddenly wanted.
I'd like to think that one day there'll be a generation of chaps out there who are retired, after a great career in marketing/sales/repping, who with their disposable income/pensions, would like to add to their car collection their first 'proper' rep's car they had as a junior rep all them years ago. As I say, Omegas were literally the cheapest rear-drive repmobile there was, and you could have had either a Vectra - or, the same car (albeit without the leather, and many toys) as the guy that'd been in the job 5 more years than you. OK, it's not the stock standard 5-series, like the Manager had, but it got you the same amount of space, comfort and luxury as he had, for about a third less money.
Just look at the market for vintage games consoles - exploded because of 30/40somethings wanting to have another stab at their teens with their Atari/Spectrum/NES etc
I do wonder, though about parts. On the one hand they're getting impossible to get hold of and we're dooomed. On the other hand, each generation moves things on, with regards to technology. To fabricate a PCB would seem impossible witchcraft to someone working in cutting-edge Codebreaking in WW2, but now it's relative childsplay to many. Just look at what the generation who grew up with programming and writing code on their Sinclairs/BBC Acorns have done - photorealistic gaming and CGI beyond belief. The next generation will/are growing up with handing in their reports on touchscreen tablets and making projects on 3D printers at school. 3D printing alone is possibly the most exciting technology since the means to press sheet metal was invented. And the possibilities could mean panels, headlamp adjusters, even crank sensors could be knocked up in some kid's bedroom for pence. I theorise, just for fun, and of course no-one knows.
Life's no fun without a challenge - and Omegas certainly are that. :D
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Life's no fun without a challenge - and Omegas certainly are that.
I think that could be said of most cars that are getting on a bit though :-\ If it hasn't rusted together its fallen off ;D :D You will be lucky to get away with just servicing :( By the way you dont see any Austin Princess's around any more :P ::)
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I'd have thought that for a price most electrickery can be fixed. ;) A good example is the likes of BBA Reman fixing Omega ABS/ECU's and maybe as time goes on more outfits like that will spring up to service the classic car market. :y
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Anything can be fixed or adapted , quite possible other compatible electrickeires will adapt . And if it rots just cut it out an weld in new . amazing what you see in the scrap yards these days when the cars are perfectly salvageable , throw away society innit :(
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This was my thinking - what we perceive to be a tricky, expensive, or even impossible repair these days in the future will be accessible, use more common, and maybe even cheap. (we can hope ::)) Ironically look at the skills which are waning - old-school heavy engineering practices, which were created to service such as traction engines and other steam engines etc. Time was that to service such a machine was easy and common. Now you need to find a specialist engineering firm who can re-shell bearings, make a chain, make a gear wheel etc. I'd say it's those firms which (sadly) will near-die out, and the shops where you'll drive up, plug in to a computer and tell the guy "can you programme the artificial revs section of the sound system of my EV to make a Bugatti Veyron rasp, please? From, like, the early 21st century" will flourish.
The cardinal rule of our society - if there's money to be made, someone will do it ;)
I hope the future is fairly bright for Omegas, and similar cars :)
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Life's no fun without a challenge - and Omegas certainly are that.
I think that could be said of most cars that are getting on a bit though :-\ If it hasn't rusted together its fallen off ;D :D You will be lucky to get away with just servicing :( By the way you dont see any Austin Princess's around any more :P ::)
A previous Father-in-law gifted me one in the late eighties. Red with a BVR and a lusty 1700 OHC lump. It was going to be 'cubed' but all it needed to sail through the MOT was something called 'displacers'. I bought a used pair for about twenty quid.
Actually not a bad car, being extremely comfortable and spacious.
Sadly though, the Princess didn't moisten the pussies of the local girls. :-\
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Still looks better than a lot of modern rubbish they make now ::)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTD6eiCBmie_ZRTPoYaY19-njGsoH0sSmW9B538O4c7G6InlG8eYg)
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I had a burgundy one. It was, indeed, spacious and comfortable, but it was the original car that inspired the "0-60 in 15 minutes" sticker. ;D
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Still looks better than a lot of modern rubbish they make now ::)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTD6eiCBmie_ZRTPoYaY19-njGsoH0sSmW9B538O4c7G6InlG8eYg)
I know the designer Harris Mann, who had received much stick about his designs over the years (mostly down to build quality, which a designer has no control over) would be pleased to hear you say that. I was lucky enough to talk to him on several occasions, as he was a sort of 'guest lecturer' during my time at Uni. Very nice chap and personally, for all their faults, don't dislike the Allegro and especially the Princess which were a 1980s hatchback (except the Princess wasn't of course - again down to cost and not his fault) - but about a decade early. We're used to seeing a 'normal' car being a two-box wedge shape these days, but in the 70s all-but everything was a traditional three-box design. Personally don't dislike the TR7 either. Mind, if we're talking about 70 Designers, look up the work of Ogle and William Towns...
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I had a burgundy one. It was, indeed, spacious and comfortable, but it was the original car that inspired the "0-60 in 15 minutes" sticker. ;D
The 2200 version with the six cylinder lump went quite well. :y
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I had a burgundy one. It was, indeed, spacious and comfortable, but it was the original car that inspired the "0-60 in 15 minutes" sticker. ;D
The 2200 version with the six cylinder lump went quite well. :y
It burnt fuel well too,very low geared and screaming it's tits off at70 ::)
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The Omega will never make really big money. However, well cared for examples will only go up in value as the days tick by. Just like a cared for Cortina, Victor, or Granada. ::) ::)
I predict £6000-£7000 for the very best 3.2 Elite in a decade from now. :y
Part of me agrees with you, but the more practical side does not, anything post electrical wizadree will not gain value like an older car. They are not readily fixable by a diy'er who enjoys a tinker at the weekend, on a car that is old skool and therefore pretty much diy'able for almost any job; modern electrics will kill off potential classics of the future imo........ :-\ :-\ :-\
I don't think the electrical systems are overly complex though, the biggest problem will be when crank sensors etc become NLS, wiring can always be repaired as can most components like alternators and starter motors.
In fairness the looms are good quality - certainly better quality than VAG's which are so brittle that after a few years the door looms need constant repair / rebuilding every tenth time you open one of the doors.
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Could crank sensors be repaired? ???
I thought it was generally the cable disintegrating that caused the failure? :-\
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Well that's my thought - as you say, it's the wire that goes brittle, and that's down to purely poor placement in the engine bay, not any inherent fault with the quality of the components, unlike with VAG looms as the good Mr VXL points out.
Never took one apart, but I don't see how it wouldn't theoretically be perfectly possibly to replace just the wire. You can have custom HT leads made, that's my logic. To me, the repairing of the door solenoids is just beyond me, but to many on here it's seen as a dead easy job - same with the keyfobs. Hoping that the same may be true with the crank sensors. :)