Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Diamond Black Geezer on 05 March 2015, 15:46:56
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Ok, skipping to the punchline - short answer is - wait 14 days + a couple for the fine/ticket to be posted, and you'll know if you've been done or not.
So, for the story behind the punchline... coming home from visiting my girlfriend's brother, and I'm going down a wide road about to emerge from a town and slowly accelerating, along with the flow of traffic - I'm two seconds behind the car in front, and likewise the cars behind me. I see a 40mph sign ahead, this provokes me to think 'hang on, is this a 30 or a 40mph?' with that my girlfriend says 'cameravan' - bugger! The cameravan is parked on the other side of the road, rear end facing me, big black window staring at me blankly and coldly like a Cyberman. I think I was doing indicated 38mph (though she disagrees and says more like 32mph, so I may well have been slower than 38) By the time either of us saw it I'd say if my speed had been read it was a couple of dozen yards back - so in theory I wasn't going as fast then.
Knowing the definition of 'speeding' is ... your speed + 10% + 2mph, that means in theory you can do 35mph - but taking into account my speedo definitely over-reads, by about 2-3 mph at 30mph, that means at an indicated 38mph I could be doing 35mph. So borderline. :'(
I've no points, NCD, trying for a clean licence, and really can't afford my insurance doubling (I've already done an online quotation with a theoretical 3 points and it made me wince)
So my question is - are they...
a) trying to get people coming out of town, like me accelerating up to 40mph, in a 30, only about 20 yards shy of a 40mph sign... or
b) are they trying to get Sunday bikers etc... who are barrelling along the country roads doing 50mph+ in a 40, who then enter town, still doing 50-ish mph?
Are they there trying to act as deterrent, or get people who are literally 1mph above the threshhold?
Slightly worried, and it's praying on my mind, especially as I really am trying to be a good boy on the roads, and touch wood hope I am, for the most part. :-[
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Depends on the Van, was it marked up Plod, DVLA (or something similar) or Local Council?
Could have been for Speeders, Tax, Insurance or Mot or mixture of any, normally back of the Van points to oncoming traffic which is what its trying to target if that helps.
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I'm sure it was le gendarmerie, yes.
If they the people they're trying to catch are those coming toward the camera, so towards the rear of the van, that would seem a little odd. (not disagreeing/criticising yourself, but the Peelers) as I mention - where's the sense in doing someone for doing nearly 40, about 20 yards away from entering a 40 zone :-\. I'd be happy, and indeed fully support a camera/policing service that try and catch people speeding as they enter a town. I always make sure I crawl through villages, it's annoying to be merrily going along at 60, to then slow for all of one minute, to then have to speed back up, but the way I think about it, the village was there before the car was invented... Also I live on a road with a 20mph limit (20 yards from my old infants/junior school) and you should see the people that fly past there at 40mph+ >:( it's not only the dangerous speed, but the noise from engines and tyre roar it's really annoying. So again, I do try to be a good boy and adhere to the speed limits best I can.
Never considered they were there simply checking reg numbers, for tax/insurance etc.. just assumed speeding.
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where's the sense in doing someone for doing nearly 40, about 20 yards away from entering a 40 zone
ker-ching?
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where's the sense in doing someone for doing nearly 40, about 20 yards away from entering a 40 zone
ker-ching?
I know... :'( hence I chose the words 'where's the sense', as opposed to 'where's the point'... we all know the point, but there's no sense in it, sadly.
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It will probably have been a speed detection van, DVLA don't use vans much these days due to everything being computerised. You'll just have to wait & see. A lot of forces will send 1st time offenders on a NDAC for being just over the ACPO guidelines limits.
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Pardon my ignorance - what's an NDAC? Thanks :) is that the 'don't speed it's naughty' course? I know it's a way of avoiding points on your licence, but does that still affect insurance? :)
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Yep - National Driver Awareness Course is what it stands for and you still have to tell your insurance company about them.
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I'm sure it was le gendarmerie, yes.
If they the people they're trying to catch are those coming toward the camera, so towards the rear of the van, that would seem a little odd. (not disagreeing/criticising yourself, but the Peelers) as I mention - where's the sense in doing someone for doing nearly 40, about 20 yards away from entering a 40 zone :-\. I'd be happy, and indeed fully support a camera/policing service that try and catch people speeding as they enter a town. I always make sure I crawl through villages, it's annoying to be merrily going along at 60, to then slow for all of one minute, to then have to speed back up, but the way I think about it, the village was there before the car was invented... Also I live on a road with a 20mph limit (20 yards from my old infants/junior school) and you should see the people that fly past there at 40mph+ >:( it's not only the dangerous speed, but the noise from engines and tyre roar it's really annoying. So again, I do try to be a good boy and adhere to the speed limits best I can.
Never considered they were there simply checking reg numbers, for tax/insurance etc.. just assumed speeding.
All depends on what the brief is for the day (or night) and the Force, where I live is literally on the Essex, Herts, Middlesex Borders, there always at it, the speeding bit is there normally parked up on a Black Spot or changes in Speed Limits, the Insurance Check, Drinking etc is normally on a Main Route in or out of the Town where theres nowhere else to run.
Normally on big binge's there tons of back up parked further down the road, on a heavy session the Essex Boys bring down the Evo interceptors from Chelmsford and a couple of Car Transporters (well prepared ;D).
the Herts Boys just down the road tend to just blitz a Main Roads driving up and down in Unmarked Vectra's, BM's and Volvo's, sometimes on the warpath other times just seems for awareness :-\
As you say, these days, just need to keep your nose clean, be legal and stick to the limits. ;)
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HURRAYY!!!!
Guess what? Got myself a lovely free piece of paper from the Lincolnshire Lady bitssabulary... would we all like to hear what speed I was doing?
35mph.
Yes. Thirty-five miles per hour. On a dead straight, wide road, in broad daylight, twenty yards from a 40mph zone, with nothing but trees and fields either side of the road.
So that's my premium up for next year (well, a couple of months time, actually) On a fat old barge that does 22mpg, and I can barely afford to run as it is, let alone with a doubled insurance cost. But I do because I love Omegas. :'(
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Bloody hell!!! That were quick!!!! How'd you get the letter so soon?
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I know. :-[ I reckon they're in need of the cash. They must be if they're actually prosecuting people going in a consistent flow of traffic, at a constant, steady speed.
I, of course, considered braking sharply, the instant I saw the detector van - but that would have been dangerous, wouldn't it, Mr Policeman!?!?!?! >:(
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I reckon they're in need of the cash.
Don't get any of it, all goes to central government.
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Have they offered speed awareness course? Not all insurance companies specify that you tell them of attendance at these courses
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HURRAYY!!!!
Guess what? Got myself a lovely free piece of paper from the Lincolnshire Lady bitssabulary... would we all like to hear what speed I was doing?
35mph.
Yes. Thirty-five miles per hour. On a dead straight, wide road, in broad daylight, twenty yards from a 40mph zone, with nothing but trees and fields either side of the road.
.............
That's how I got done, in an extended 30mph, after behaving myself and doing 28mph up until the very last minute. I got caught accelerating up to 38mph, on a wide road, no houses anywhere near, within metres of the national speed limit sign. ::) I was offered, and I accepted, the course. Since that day I have not broken the speed limit. :)
It's a good job they weren't there the day before. :-X :-X
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The way I look at it is this: The speed limit is 30mph, you were doing 35, that's against the law. I break the law every day, sometimes by a far greater margin than you did. One day I will get caught and have to face the (financial) consequences. That's it. You were unlucky, but the only way to avoid it is to stay within the limit (and be tailgated and flashed on every journey you take).
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They have - I was between 30-42mph, so I'm fine for that - and as you say - I don't have to declare it (sometimes). And if I do, no points, too.
I've checked on the old friendly meerkat comparison website, and actually when I come to renew my insurance, it'll be on the V6, not the Weasel, even with the 'black mark' against my name of the naughty speeding don't be a child-killer course I'll be paying less than I am this year for insurance.
So I'll give them their pound of flesh, I'll sit in the room in Hull, listen to everything they say, which in fairness I'll agree with, because in spite of the evidence I do believe I'm not a bad driver...
I just wish there were cameras watching me when the woman stepped out in front of me a fortnight ago without looking (when I was doing 30, and literally a few yards from her) had I not been on the ball she'd be still hospitalised now. Or when a couple of months back a car stopped dead on the motorway, and I was immediately behind him. Totally unexpected (think there was debris in the lane) It'd been a long drive back from holiday, but I still stopped in time - because I was still alert enough to drive safely(I'd taken regular breaks, like the signs tell you)
Or when that HGV decided it wanted to be in my lane, and I managed to pull over/brake, swerved partially on the hard shoulder, otherwise he'd have crushed me.
Or the twenty times I have been dazzled by oncoming cars with main beam on. Twice this morning on the way to work, I've given up counting, now.
Or the three red lights that I've seen run, seconds after changing, in the last month or so. To the point one guy nearly got hit.
Just wish there'd been cameras watching all that driving, I really believe that for all the death and destruction, and horror that 'evil' car drivers cause on UK roads, there are ten times the number of accidents prevented daily, by observant drivers, than are caused by inattentive or speeding drivers.
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Just bad luck really , im sure they do get the real idiots that need their licences ripping up :y
I was overtook this week coming back on the A5 in a 40 zone , the idiot must have been doing 60 .. round the corner we see he was stopped by mr plod in the lay-by .. how we laughed :y
He was in a mumsy bus ::)
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That's it, EMD I'm glad when you see the idiots being pulled over.
Like my missus says, would you rather be pulled doing 35 in a 30 and get the course thing... or get done doing 110 on a motorway dead at night? and subsequently get 6 points if you're lucky, or lose your licence completely. Fair point.
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Don't worry DBG, my piss is boiling for you.
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Don't worry DBG, my piss is boiling for you.
;D :D ;D :D
MUCH appreciated! Thank you! First time I've smiled since i got in from work (1st day back in, after three days off ill) :y
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The way I look at it is this: The speed limit is 30mph, you were doing 35, that's against the law. I break the law every day, sometimes by a far greater margin than you did. One day I will get caught and have to face the (financial) consequences. That's it. You were unlucky, but the only way to avoid it is to stay within the limit (and be tailgated and flashed on every journey you take).
just as I was told steve on the course,if the set limit is 30 and your doing 31 then you are speeding
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The way I look at it is this: The speed limit is 30mph, you were doing 35, that's against the law. I break the law every day, sometimes by a far greater margin than you did. One day I will get caught and have to face the (financial) consequences. That's it. You were unlucky, but the only way to avoid it is to stay within the limit (and be tailgated and flashed on every journey you take).
just as I was told steve on the course,if the set limit is 30 and your doing 31 then you are speeding
I'll get caught tomorrow, you just watch ;D
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I'm going to have so much fun contesting the difference between speeding and unsafe driving - which are of course not one and the same thing.
If doing 35mph is unsafe on that stretch of road, how can it be that three car lengths later it is determined that 40mph is safe? And how, for instance, on a local A road which was recently changed from a 60 to a 50 (because of one accident, down to someone being drunk and stupid and the subsequent knee-jerk reaction) how can it be that the previous week doing 59mph on that road was 'safe' - yet that following week, when the limit was changed to 50, that same speed would be considered 'unsafe'?
I put it to you, Mr Safety seminar lecture man - Do you perceive 'safety' as a moving sliding scale, or an absolute? I put it to you that 'more safety' is a misnomer, as when someone is accused of being 'more wrong' One is either in danger, or one is not. One is either right, or one is wrong.
I'm not saying all this is true, but I would be genuinely interested in actually testing, and debating, intelligently, and seriously, the definitions of 'safety'. Also (a subject in which I can speak with some experience) given that cars have become 'safer' (again - is this a misnomer?) does that not mean that accidentally running off the road in a 30 year old car, vs a brand new car is more dangerous. ergo - if one's brakes in one's 911GT3 RS can bring you to a standstill in 10 yards, vs one's Sierra, which can only do it in three times that distance, one can surely be travelling at three times the speed?
I may say 'Would we be better implementing different speed ratings for vehicles, dependant on their power and brake ability? Cars with more powerful brakes can go faster?'
'NO.' I hear the Mr No Speed man cry! 'Cars moving at different speeds is unsafe! Cars moving along at a steady rate, even at a higher speed (eg: motorways) is, by definition safer that cars moving at different speeds, albeit slower.
'What?' I should then inquire - 'cars going at a constant speed is safer? Like.... what I was doing when I was caught, along with no doubt the ten cars in front and immediately behind me?'
Oh I'm going to have so much fun. :D
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IIRC you can fail the courses and have to take the points.....
imho, shut up, listen, and respond as they expect....regardless of what you actually think.
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IIRC you can fail the courses and have to take the points.....
imho, shut up, listen, and respond as they expect....regardless of what you actually think.
Yup. If you agree to take the course, then you are admitting you did wrong. If you don't think you did wrong, then you can put your point across in court.
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I`m totally in favour of complying with the relevant laws of land. But don`t tell me speed cameras are a good idea; cos they aren`t >:(. It`s a sneaky friggin underhanded & miserable way to piss-off usually law abiding folks. Are you more of a danger travellin in traffic at 35 mph, then 1 mph slower at 34 mph ??? Nope.
It`s utter bollix, especially when you consider the number of times, as you recount; the near misses we`ve all had from numpties just out to top themselves in front of yours truly.
I seem to remember a while back, someone posting a link to the top 10 most lucrative speed cameras in the uk, I`ll have another look for it & this was from a few years ago
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2402629/How-10-speed-cameras-raked-12million-just-years-catching-200-000-motorists.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2402629/How-10-speed-cameras-raked-12million-just-years-catching-200-000-motorists.html)
Rant over ;)
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I think everyone agrees that the world is a very unfair place but, if you get nabbed, there's really not much you can do about it. I'm sure the powers that be have heard every excuse/rant there is, but it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
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IIRC you can fail the courses and have to take the points.....
imho, shut up, listen, and respond as they expect....regardless of what you actually think.
Yup. If you agree to take the course, then you are admitting you did wrong. If you don't think you did wrong, then you can put your point across in court.
^this^
I had the honour of a course about 15 years ago.
First half was some arrogant prick of a copper who stood there telling everybody how glad he was that we had been caught and proceeded to tell us that we was on par with Ian Brady, Maggie Thatcher and Hitler in the evil stakes for doing 35 in a 30 zone ::)
One woman jumped up, told him to stick the course where the sun doesn't shine and walked out ;D
The rest clenched out fists and ignored the knob.
The second half was done by a advanced driving instructor who run us through a couple of videos and spoke to us like adults, chucking in a few facts about stopping distances ect for good luck.
Needless to say, I remember everything the driving instructor told us and sweet f**k all about the first half ;D
It must of worked because i've had a clean licence ever since :y
Or maybe that's down to the sat nav with camera positions on it and the snooper radar detector which may or may not come out on long drives ;)
At the end of the day, I don't think anybody would mind if these machines was positioned outside schools, hospital's and other places where there is a genuine risk of danger to life NOT somewhere hidden just around a corner and just in front of a 40 mph sign >:(
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Stopping distances are a load of old cobblers now, worked out when cars had shit brakes and four inch tyres, according to the boys on top gear. If I ever have to do a course, I'll be sure to tell them this. ;D
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My tuppence worth...
Quit bellyaching about everybody elses' driving and concentrate on your own... next time it will be three points minimum and a £90 fine ;)
Btw, if you were clocked at 35, your speedo would have been reading alot nearer forty...
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I always understood that only the "Truvelo" speed camera was approved for forward-facing photos, and hence valid as evidence for prosecution, not any old van?
Ron.
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Stopping distances are a load of old cobblers now, worked out when cars had shit brakes and four inch tyres, according to the boys on top gear. If I ever have to do a course, I'll be sure to tell them this. ;D
You tell them :y ;D ;D ;D
To be honest, a friend of a friend who I have downed many pints with over the years is a long standing traffic plod with Humberside Police.
His opinion is they should be scrapped and more traffic coppers (the old version which had common sense) should be out there as a visual deterrent.
If i'm honest, after some of the stories that he has told about some of the accidents he has been first on the scene at, I can understand why some coppers really do go to town on this :(
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Just to add most other drivers are morons...
Was driving a fully liveried Sprinter earlier, and still had some tw4t try and overtake me at a red pedestrian crossing...
There really is no helping some people... and fretting it will only put you in an early grave
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I always understood that only the "Truvelo" speed camera was approved for forward-facing photos, and hence valid as evidence for prosecution, not any old van?
Ron.
Anything else to say in your defence Ron ??? NO ??? Right this court finds you guilty & you can pay all my costs including 6 points on your licence & 12 weeks in jail for wastin OOF court time. :D
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At least I will save petrol in those 12 weeks! ;D
Ron.
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I feel for you I really do DBG it's an utter p**s take...
Well, After reading though this I'm tempted to get one of these, Presuming they actually work.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151364368412
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I always understood that only the "Truvelo" speed camera was approved for forward-facing photos, and hence valid as evidence for prosecution, not any old van?
Nope, there's about half a dozen cameras now, possibly more approved for speed detection.
I've never give a ticket for 35, verbal warning perhaps. I hate speed cameras personally, they take away the need for us & they never get placed correctly.
After the course I been on this week I wonder IF the enforcement site is correct :o :o :o. (Saying no more)
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I feel for you I really do DBG it's an utter p**s take...
Well, After reading though this I'm tempted to get one of these, Presuming they actually work.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151364368412
Save your money. A database isn't much use against mobile cameras and the only thing that will detect a modern mobile camera before it's too late is the eyeball.
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Well, I wasn't aware that you could actually fail the course, I thought it was just a sit in a room and be told stuff. But fair enough, I'll sit and 'listen' - I'm not going to cost myself literally hundreds of pounds over the next few years for the sake of a point - (though if I were earning more money than I am I'd be tempted - another point I'd like to make - a fixed fine is not an 'equal' punishment - half a week's wage to some, half an hour's wage to others, but that's for another discussion)
Here's my issue - and thank you Jasonm, your comments make me feel at least there are decent and flexible members of the force out there. I've personally never had it 'in' for the Police, never been a coppper-hater, always brought up to believe they're there for our protection and to help and serve the public etc... and consequently owed our respect. And I'd like to think that on that day, had I been flashed by a copper and pulled over, I'd have been able to say "I really wasn't sure if this was a 30 or a 40, until I saw that sign [ten yards away] saying '40' which got me thinking 'hang on, does that mean this is a 30, then?' I was just going at the same speed as the other cars around me, thinking I was actually under the limit by several mph. I am genuinely sorry.'
- and I am, I am genuinely sorry, and I've actually sharpened up this last week, really trying to watch any possible speed incursions. The Policeman [I'd hope] would actually look at the few yards away from the 40 sign, and the bollocking this lad has just received, him sitting there being embarrassed in front of his girlfriend, and the fact he is clearly not a 'nob driver' - if he was he'd have been 5 ft behind the car in front, flashing his lights and swearing at him. He wasn't, he was cruising along with the flow of traffic.
And a quick stern talking to would have made me sit up and watch it in future, as well as - if not more - that this course I'll be going on.
But this experience, along with a few years back my cousin receiving death threats due to his father's appearing in Court to try and prosecute a murderer... and the Police claiming there was 'nothing they could do' does really start to tarnish how I was brought up. And that's a shame, I don't think the average bobby would reasonably consider mine or others' actions as being outright dangerous, and there are a vast amount/majority of decent Police Officers out there, but actions like this simply causes the general public to get their back up, and generate ill feeling, Which is wrong.
Finally, if they want to increase safety (and still generate income), stick a Bobby at my old Junior School gates for 10 or 15 mins at half 3pm, and just see how many people park on the huge yellow zig-zags, or how many regularly barrel down the same road at 40 (it's a 20), or the main road where the same owner every day reverses his car out onto a blind bend, at the foot of a hill, and every day it's down to alert motorists to stop in time. (All this occurs less that 100yards from the town's Police station) :'(
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Jason, you are bound to be right and I am out of date, but I thought the issue with cameras that took photos of the front of the vehicle was one of privacy and for that reason, the EU outlawed them?
The strength of feelings on this topic, albeit from a motoring group, does show that the law does not represent the will of the people in this and, as we all know, is much more to do with revenue collection than safety - hence your comment on their "never being placed correctly"; they are correctly placed to generate maximum incone......
Ron.
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I feel for you I really do DBG it's an utter p**s take...
Well, After reading though this I'm tempted to get one of these, Presuming they actually work.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151364368412
Save your money. A database isn't much use against mobile cameras and the only thing that will detect a modern mobile camera before it's too late is the eyeball.
By the time you've spotted the camera van, it's probably spotted you! ::)
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Ok, skipping to the punchline - short answer is - wait 14 days + a couple for the fine/ticket to be posted, and you'll know if you've been done or not.
/pedant mode on/
No. The law is that the initial NIP must be "served" within 14 days of the date of the offence. "Served" has a specific legal meaning, which is roughly translated as "should be expected to arrive at the addressee within two days if posted by 1st class post". So it needs to "arrive" at you on or before day 14. There is no "+ a couple for the fine/ticket to be posted".
/pedant mode off/
However, it sounds like they're well within time on this occasion, so no help to you.
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By the time you've spotted the camera van, it's probably spotted you! ::)
Agree. If you want to find out how far away they pinged you, you can write back to them and request that they supply you with "a photograph to help with identifying the driver". Do not use words like evidence or proof! Just ask for a photo in vague, non accusatory language.
They may not have any, and they might not let you have it even if they do. But they usually do.
However, whether they do or don't send it, make sure you return the S172 within the 28 day time limit. Don't wait for the photo to arrive!
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I feel for you I really do DBG it's an utter p**s take...
Well, After reading though this I'm tempted to get one of these, Presuming they actually work.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151364368412
Save your money. A database isn't much use against mobile cameras and the only thing that will detect a modern mobile camera before it's too late is the eyeball.
By the time you've spotted the camera van, it's probably spotted you! ::)
If you're on a deserted road, that's probably true, but I've spotted them in the past when I've probably still been obscured by the traffic I'm following.
Worst I've had is a "satisfied that an offence was committed but will not be taking any action", and that was a man with gun who I saw from a mile away and passed at 31 indicated on the Omega's speedo. Yeah, right. I must look guilty. ;D
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Just to add most other drivers are morons...
Was driving a fully liveried Sprinter earlier, and still had some tw4t try and overtake me at a red pedestrian crossing...
There really is no helping some people... and fretting it will only put you in an early grave
I think we agree on a few things here! :y :y