Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: ted_one on 15 March 2015, 10:05:40
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Thinking of getting the Elites engine rebuilt as I'm starting to get a small amount of blue smoke on start up,I'm thinking that there might be a member on here or someone who they can recommend who specialise in this type of work,car has 230.000 miles on the clock and runs on the money,but the engine could do with a bit of a freshen up. Would want a proper job done,so would prefer a recommendation based on your own experience.No big rush, but some time over the next 3-4 months. TIA :y
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Are you talking a freshen up or a rebuild? A rebuild will mean a rebore, crank grind, head and block skim(the block should be trued as part of the rebore), new valve guides and recut seats, reconditioned con-rods etc etc. That's a lot of money in machine work let alone in parts. Being a modern, managed engine most of it is probably unnecessary. A freshen up could be anything from a jetwash and detailing, to new bearings, rings and gaskets which again are probably unnecessary. A partial strip down would be necessary to make an informed decision on any of this. It sounds like your engine has worn valve stem seals, but at 230,000 miles that's just a sign of it having done plenty of honest work!
To be honest, if it runs well, then leave it alone.
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I hear what your saying Nick,I would have perhaps gone for a re-con..but having gone down that route on the 3.0 the result turned out as more 'con' than anything else,so I'm thinking work with what I have, and yes I'm prepared to give it what it needs subject to a strip down by someone who knows what they are doing and obviously have the skills and to be equipped to follow through with what ever work is needed.I'm going to keep the car long term as I plan to retire this summer and it's going to get used on some long road trips and I don't want to have it go bang on me in the middle of nowhere.....belt and braces I guess, and in some peoples views totally unnecessary but it's my call in the end I guess. :-\
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Yep, what he said ^.
It's not worth it unless it's showing signs of serious wear, and if all you're getting is a little smoke on start-up, it's probably just stem seals.
Even if it were ready for a proper rebuild, dropping in a 2nd hand engine is probably a better bet. These engines are built to tolerances at the factory that are going to need serious work to recreate during a rebuild, so my view is to keep the factory work original for as long as possible.
Heads-off, new stem seals and lapping in the valves would probably fix the smoke and is about the most I'd bother with.
When I built my kit car I stripped the engine and delivered the component bits to an engine workshop to be checked (I was tuning the engine, so it had to come to bits anyway). In the end I decided on a rebore and new pistons as the ring grooves were a little wide. It also had a crank polish, new bearings, valves lapped and a skim. IIRC, the bill for that (on a 4 pot) was 700 odd quid and that's 15 years ago and what I got back was another box of bits for me to reassemble. That was a 4 pot too.
Still sweet as a nut, though, despite the abuse it gets. As a mate of mine used to say: "Build 'em well, then give 'em hell!".
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As I say I'm prepared to give the car what it needs,and if that's the only problem then I don't have an issue with that,and as always I am very grateful for any advice given.Will still need to find someone to take on the work,so I'll let this run for a while as it isn't urgent but...it's on my to get it done list. :y
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Ken, have you checked the price and availability of a short engine from Vauxhall?
This would give you exactly what you want, and this approach is often the best value.
Combine a short engine with a carefully considered mix of new and serviced ancillaries, and you'll effectively have what was fitted on the production line.
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A known, good replacement engine would be by far and way your most cost-effective option, but you're still going to want to invest in a new timing belt and water pump even if taking an exchange engine from Vauxhall (you'll probably also need an oil cooler and a stack of other bits if choosing a re-manufactured engine). And you're likely to need a selection of gaskets and other service parts to be on the safe side. I'm about to refresh one of my 3.2s in advance of returning my MV6 to the road, but I'm stopping short of a full rebuild (I intend to fit an entirely different powerplant as soon as my next Cavalier Turbo project is up and running). Sprucing up the donor lump is still gonna cost a few quid, but rather that than see it fail as a consequence of a complaint that could have been avoided.
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Thinking??...... back shortly :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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A couple of years ago rebuilt factory engines were about £1500 on trade club - don't know if they have any left - Maybe AndyC knows?
Edit - I think the Vauxhall engines are 'long' engines so include heads and timing gear but no ancillaries.
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Thinking??...... back shortly :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Let me know if you need to supply an exchange unit to Vauxhall. I have a couple of spare/poorly 3.2s collecting dust :y
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Cheapest option is a factory gmx unit, they are long, they just need dressing, any decent tc dealer should be able to supply. As said £1500 is about the correct price last one I bought was 10 years ago £950 exchange on tc.
Or go to gmpower and get a crate 3.8. :).
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Cheapest option is a factory gmx unit, they are long, they just need dressing, any decent tc dealer should be able to supply. As said £1500 is about the correct price last one I bought was 10 years ago £950 exchange on tc.
Or go to gmpower and get a crate 3.8. :).
Long engine is what I meant, and if those prices are still similar, then it's definitely the way to achieve what Ken wants. After all, he couldn't buy the parts for that sort of money. And there will be a guarantee.
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Done a bit of research.....not a great amount of info at this time,just come up with the VXPRO site,and that's just basically a heads up site with a couple of contact numbers.....so you know that this is going to be a scary phone conversation full of big numbers :o Although I have a reasonable budget I think VX will live up to their usual reputation and make my dosh/arms and the odd leg disappear in a split second.Will give them a call tomorrow just to confirm the feelings of doom as is usual with VX ::)
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Done a bit of research.....not a great amount of info at this time,just come up with the VXPRO site,and that's just basically a heads up site with a couple of contact numbers.....so you know that this is going to be a scary phone conversation full of big numbers :o Although I have a reasonable budget I think VX will live up to their usual reputation and make my dosh/arms and the odd leg disappear in a split second.Will give them a call tomorrow just to confirm the feelings of doom as is usual with VX ::)
That seems overly pessimistic to me.
I don't think AndyC is able to sell to us any more but I think he is still able to check what is available within Vauxhall/Opel. I would send him a PM and ask what stock is available before getting off on the wrong foot with your local dealership.
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Pessimism is based on owning and dealing with VX for the last twenty five years and being continually bent over without the use of any lubricant :o ::) But you could be right and they may well pleasantly surprise us all and come up with a great deal for which I will bite their arm off in a heart beat :y
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When I last enquired, it was £1,609 for an Omega Y32SE engine, with I think a three year warranty.
The part number was; R1000151A
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Thanks Josh,now that does seem reasonable,did you go through your local VX dealer? and did you do the deal or was that just an enquiry?
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Yep, went through my local dealer, very helpful!
I did go through with it, it was for a client in France, he wanted a new engine for his '03' Elite. It had covered 12,300 miles, but then he damaged the sump and knackered it :o
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Probably nearer the £2k mark now, but with various new ancillaries that will have to be replaced in the build up and obviously they would have to be genuine VX due to the warranty restrictions,I would hazard a guess that the bottom line with labour added would be pushing £4-4.5k. So not impossible budget wise,but a lot of money/time investment which is going to come out of my Monaro stash.Think Nick W and Kevin Wood have stated their case wisely and so if it's not to broke then less is more I guess.Top end will get the attention needed and the Monaro will be that much closer :y
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just before Christmas I rebuild my 3.2 and that was lots of time and money spend on that engine.
must say for price what you can buy brand new engine wont do rebuild again on omega for sure.
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PM Incoming :y
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If it is of interest you can find out the cost of new vx engines fro the TC site. In the region of £1500 when I last looked out of interest. I know not whats included in that though I.e. Just block n heads?
Anyways, why not buy a block n heads from a breaker off 'ere then put it on a stand and work on it as and when you can) and then you can go as crazy as you like with stripping it down.
I got a 3 litre block with heads and when I stop spending money on tools get paid I'm getting a stand and doing that. Not cos I think I have a problem but cos I'm sad ;D
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Absolutely no where to work on the car and absolutely no will to do so,I'm limited to cleaning,driving and breaking them....so me no fixee ;D Decision made as to what's to be done on the car and hopefully plans will be firmed up shortly....with luck :-X ;)
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Absolutely no where to work on the car and absolutely no will to do so,I'm limited to cleaning,driving and breaking them....so me no fixee ;D Decision made as to what's to be done on the car and hopefully plans will be firmed up shortly....with luck :-X ;)
Got ya. Then fair enough mate :y
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Decision made as to what's to be done on the car and hopefully plans will be firmed up shortly....with luck :-X ;)
Care to elaborate? Tbh, if the only complaint is that your car is pumping out a small amount of blue smoke, you could just ignore it strip the engine, replace piston rings and renew gaskets before throwing it back together again. iirc, exchange engines from Vauxhall are re-manufactured anyway (as opposed to brand new engines). You could give your bare block and heads to a firm like Ivor Searle and get them to acid dip and hone etc. before getting someone to reassemble the lot for you.
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Looks very likely.... going to Huntingdon,have contacted Serek, and will leave it in his capable hands,very impressed with him last time :y
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I would love to have Webby's and your own skills,commitment and patience, which I envy, but unfortunately I have severe anger management issues with spanners and cars and have relegated myself to the position of gopher.Therefore I prefer to out source the work on the cars, basically for my own sanity, and peace and quiet for the neighbours. Also I'm a bit OCD about the cars and a little puff of blue smoke is nothing much to worry about I agree...but nonetheless its going to get sorted anyway......hopefully :y
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Having now worked in a garage for a couple of months I'm noticing that there's still a lot of skills to be learned
Weirdly though I can't play computer games cos they get me angry. To the point where I've broken the occasional control pad :o :'(
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Also I'm a bit OCD about the cars and a little puff of blue smoke is nothing much to worry about I agree...but nonetheless its going to get sorted anyway......hopefully :y
A man after my own heart
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I used to love working on my cars up to the Ford Sierra and then technology started getting a bit tricky and when my Senator came along I decided to delegate the care of my cars to someone who could do it without moaning and whingeing like me!! and since then I just don't want to get involved anymore...sad but true :'( ;D
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I used to love working on my cars up to the Ford Sierra and then technology started getting a bit tricky and when my Senator came along I decided to delegate the care of my cars to someone who could do it without moaning and whingeing like me!! and since then I just don't want to get involved anymore...sad but true :'( ;D
I gave up after my triumph herald, now that was an engine you could get at. ;D
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I recently bought a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow II. Loads of room in the engine bay, but reaching any of the car's vital organs is a bit tricky due to the width and height of the ol' bus! ;D
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I recently bought a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow II. Loads of room in the engine bay, but reaching any of the car's vital organs is a bit tricky due to the width and height of the ol' bus! ;D
Bet Mark would love a play with that baby.
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Well, I don't agree with the complete list, you re-build/refurb what needs doing, this isn't a crappy old cross flow or Mini lump where its pretty much a given that it will all need sorting ;D :y
So that's a strip down, measure and check job.
I suspect, knowing the V6, you will find the bores fine and the crank fine as will be the valves and guides. As a result, honing the bores (easy enough to do), new rings (check pistons but probably ok), new mains and big ends would see it as good as new.
As an example, We currently have a 680 in bits which will have seen a lot of use and it will most likely have been re-built before. The crank is still standard size........and once cleaned and measured, it most likely will remain that way (first impressions). This needs two liners and a piston due to how it failed but little else.
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Another idea...
If you're looking at throwing this much money at it, why don't you direct it at preventing it rusting, as that is probably what will kill most Omegas long before the engine fails?
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I can vouch for that. Plenty of rust here
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All three are going up to Rustbuster in Lincolnshire during the summer, so yes I have that in hand also,and the Elite is going up to Serek's on Thursday for him to decide as to what's to be done. Would'nt be doing any of this if I wasn't going to keep the cars for the foreseeable future. ::)
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Last count I had rust both boot corners, both lower quarters, both arches, both sills, passenger front chassis leg and front crossmember :-[ :-[. All done now but a pain
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All three are going up to Rustbuster in Lincolnshire during the summer, so yes I have that in hand also,and the Elite is going up to Serek's on Thursday for him to decide as to what's to be done. Would'nt be doing any of this if I wasn't going to keep the cars for the foreseeable future. ::)
Fair play to you.
I need to get the rustproofing work done on my two as well, just always another job creeps in beforehand!