Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: daveo_007 on 17 March 2015, 20:04:14
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Evening to one and all,
I'm kind of hi-jacking the forum as I'm not an Omega owner but have had the pleasure of getting very well aquainted with a friends Omega.
The vehicle in question is a 2003 Omega 3.2 V6 automatic, it came to me feeling a bit sorry for its self, she had mayo in the oil filler cap and dip stick and was smelling hot and of burnt oil.
I have removed both heads they have been given a very light skim and you can see staining where both heads had bled between the oil and water galleries at the rear of both heads. There was a large amount of what I describe as coolant corrosian, the white and red powdery build up from the antifreeze this seems to have caused the leak??
Anyway with the help of a Sykes Pickavant Vauxhall cambelt timing alignment kit I have rebuilt the top end replaced all the rubbers and gaskets checked and cleaned all the breathers used this site to verify and check all the vacuum pipes and breathers are in the right places BUT...
I started her up and she missed a bit, I did the pedal trick and got a list of fault codes as long as my arm, at least 10, anyway after thinking about it and reading some more posts I pulled the connection off of the MAF sensor and it ran far better. I disconnected the battery and reconnected it and then got down to four codes
P0340 Camshaft Position Sensor
P0300 Random Misfire
P0100 Air Mass Flow sensor
P0110 Air Intake something or other
So I then took the camshaft sensor out but kept it connected, I left the MAF sensor connector off and it ran a bit sweeter but idled like a pig, conducted another pedal test and I got just
P0340
P0100
Is it really going to be these two items playing up, there were no issues like this before I did the gaskets, but i didn't know about the pedal trick so didn't know if there were any codes before hand.
It seems straight forward but why would they fail just from being removed and then refitted or is it an old Vauxhall thing!!!
Anyway thanks for reading all the way down to here those that have and thanks to all those many many posts I've read whilst in the garage scratching my head with my iphone google and OOF in hand...
Any help gratefully appreciated,
on the side of this the gearbox breather pipe gave me an issue can anyone tell me where it should sit, currently I have it coming up by the 2 4 6 head at the back by the bracket attached to the rear of the head for engine/head removal and it is open to atmosphere is this correct?.....
Thanks
Dave
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Firstly, gearbox breather vents to atmosphere.
Renew the crank sensor with a genuine Vauxhall one from a genuine Vauxhall dealer that you genuinely have to go to to collect.
Then try unplugging the Maf sensor. If it runs better, replace that too... genuine Bosch or genuine Vauxhall, anything else won't last.
Sorry to disappoint you, but pulling the heads was potentially unnecessary... mayo in the filler cap is classic crap oil/short journey/crap servicing and not a symptom of HG failure.
Burnt oil smell is a direct result of cam cover seals failing and oil draining onto the exhaust manifolds and burning off. Again a side effect of crap servicing, probably Vauxhall main dealer...
Hot engine is classic 3.2 as well... the residual heat after even a short run is enough to warm a small barn for a week...
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Everything what 'e said.
At least having done a strip down you've changed all the seals. Piece of mind at least but potentially unnecessary as Al says.
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If yours has a fixed bottom pulley, it might be tricky to get the cam timing accurate after the head skim. As the belt run is that bit shorter. It's unusual for the HG to fail on the 3.2 as they have metal gaskets rather than the composite ones of the earlier 3.0
But there's a good chance the crank sensor is playing up. They are known to throw erroneous codes, but not 0335 cs code. Although sometimes they do, obviously.
Cam sensors never seem to fail, (but the wire sometimes gets trapped on rebuilds) although maf's do, although less common that the 2.6.
On skimming through the post I was thinking crank sensor. On reading properly, still crank sensor. It might be worth using the car for non essential journeys and see if 0335 comes up, just to be sure. And if it runs well enough of course.
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Thanks guys,
Did you mean cam sensor or crank sensor?? As the code coming up seems to point to the cam not crank sensor...
also is it normal for both of these to go when all that has happened is they have been removed and then refitted??
I've not come across this before on any other vehicle I've worked on...
Lastly anyone know of the resistive values or have schematic diagrams for wiring to check continuity of connectors/sensors?
Dave
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Crank sensor is practically a service item, and doesn't always throw a code... Route the new one as per the guide.
V6 Cam sensor is generally reliable, but I have changed a couple... known good second hand will suffice for testing purposes, and takes all of two minutes to change :y
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Cam sensor. Never fails on the v engines, but cable does get trapped.
Crank sensor. We get threads on here about this ALL the time. More common than maf.
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Too slow ;D
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Chris you posted as I was typing out my post. I take it the crank sensor is the one by the crank, near the front pulley. I hadn't touched that so will take a look at that tomorrow after a 12hr shift...
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Chris you posted as I was typing out my post. I take it the crank sensor is the one by the crank, near the front pulley. I hadn't touched that so will take a look at that tomorrow after a 12hr shift...
Crank is next to oil filter, easily accessed from underneath... plug is into end of cable tray above 246 coilpack plug.
Cam is on the pulley end of the inlet bank of the 246 head, plug next to aircon pipe bracket. Can just about be done without removing the plenum...
Both E8 torx bolts :y
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Thanks, I may well have unplugged the crank sensor unknowingly when I cleared the wiring harness to take the heads off.
Another thing to check in the morning
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Cam sensor. Never fails on the v engines, but cable does get trapped.
Crank sensor. We get threads on here about this ALL the time. More common than maf.
Had a failed cam sensor on the 2.6 v6 when we first got it. Vx dealer replaced crank sensor, but didn't cure fault. Then they replaced cam sensor, problem cured. cable was not trapped. All done under warranty. Reported before on OOF ;)
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Of cause there always ONE smart arse. ::) ;D
The point is, obviously, that it's more likely to be the crank sensor. By a distance. ::)
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Of cause there always ONE smart arse. ::) ;D
The point is, obviously, that it's more likely to be the crank sensor. By a distance. ::)
uncalled for and rude. only reporting fact to help op. you stated never and thats not the case.
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Never apart from yours then. ::)
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Never apart from yours then. ::)
Ahem... if you don't pack it in, I'll stop the car...
Crank sensor is practically a service item, and doesn't always throw a code... Route the new one as per the guide.
V6 Cam sensor is generally reliable, but I have changed a couple... known good second hand will suffice for testing purposes, and takes all of two minutes to change :y
To be fair I have done a couple, but that doesn't make it common... by comparison, the crank sensor is basically a 100k mile service item ;D
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Ok a quick think here.
First thing to do is check the connections on the cam sensor and ensure the wires associated with it are not trapped under the cam cover.
Double check the cam sprockets are fitted correctly (e.g. the cam locating pins are in the right slots on the sprockets)
I personally have never seen a cam sensor failure.
Make sure the Coil packs are connected (these engines will start easily and run on a single coil pack with three cylinders only firing).
So basics as a starting point, can you clear the codes at all (as unplugging various sensors etc can add more confusion)
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Ok a quick think here.
First thing to do is check the connections on the cam sensor and ensure the wires associated with it are not trapped under the cam cover.
Double check the cam sprockets are fitted correctly (e.g. the cam locating pins are in the right slots on the sprockets)
I personally have never seen a cam sensor failure.
Make sure the Coil packs are connected (these engines will start easily and run on a single coil pack with three cylinders only firing).
So basics as a starting point, can you clear the codes at all (as unplugging various sensors etc can add more confusion)
Ok from the top,
Checked cam sensor wiring all good and connected up, I even removed the sensor and left it hooked up to see if it reacted the same (it seemed to)
The cam sprockets were meticulously placed on the right number on the cam shaft and timing it took long enough with multiple revolutions to make sure it was set properly.
I've renewed the coil packs and they are well connected and correct for the banks they are on.
If it helps it runs like a pig with MAF connected disconnect it and it just idles badly but does run.
My mate tells me the cam sensor was changed in 2011 not sure whether it was VXL genuine..
Please carry on I'm thinking of ordering a MAF a cam and crank sensor then test them all to find the culprit or culprits...
Thanks all
Dave
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New Bosch Maf, known good cam sensor, and genuine crank sensor from local Vx dealer :y
Start with Maf and Cam sensor :y
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Ok,
I've ordered a MAF sensor, the cam sensor was changed in 2011 at VXL by VXL.
Once the MAF is done I'll re check the faults and then decide on cam or crank sender...
Not my money so don't want to go spending a mates money willy nilly!!
Will update at the weekend when done.
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Report back, obviously, but do you have an ODBII code reader you can reset all the fault codes (and trims) with? That would help give us a good starting point :y
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I do have a friend with a reader so will borrow his to check and clear...
I have noticed though, each time I did something different like disconnect the MAF and then recheck the codes they had either cleared and then produced new codes or just dropped the old codes that were no longer relevant.
As in when I statred I had about 10 codes then I tinkered with it and it went down to 4 then I ended eventually with the 2 codes for the cam sensor and MAF issue...
Due to work I've not collected and fitted the MAF yet but will report after...
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Ok,
Changed MAF still getting cam sensor fault code...
I disconnected the crank sensor and it wouldn't start and then it gave a crank sensor fault code. I reconnected the crank sensor and it started as it had been.
I disconnected the battery for ten minutes re connected then ran and rechecked the fault codes. This time I got cam sensor and random misfire code...
This car is being a pain it seems obvious but I take it I need to change the cam sensor now??
I thought I was already running out of hair >:(
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Have you had the codes cleared?
Currently, the diagnosis method being employed seems to be random guessing.
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No not by the traditional method as I was unable to get my hands on any form of technical wizardry as yet.
I have found that disconnecting the battery clears the codes, as when reconnected without starting I get the continual flashing to denote no codes showing I then start the vehicle and I do the 2 pedal test I then get the relevant codes.
After fitting the MAF that code has now stopped I'm just getting
P0340 and P0300 all others have stopped flashing up
I'm going to the Classic car restoration show on Saturday with my mate who has a reader I will get it then..
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But otherwise yes a lot of random guessing. Do don't ask me file the winning lottery numbers this week!!
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No not by the traditional method as I was unable to get my hands on any form of technical wizardry as yet.
I have found that disconnecting the battery clears the codes, as when reconnected without starting I get the continual flashing to denote no codes showing I then start the vehicle and I do the 2 pedal test I then get the relevant codes.
After fitting the MAF that code has now stopped I'm just getting
P0340 and P0300 all others have stopped flashing up
I'm going to the Classic car restoration show on Saturday with my mate who has a reader I will get it then..
The thing is, it doesn't!
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Right,
I now have an OBD II reader, I have erased the codes and tried again and it still has p0340 P0300 and P0100...
I have tried a genuine I hasten to add MAF, Cam Sensor and Crank Sensor... And near as makes no difference!!
But all is not lost because whilst under the engine I noticed the 135 exhaust was getting very hot as an exhaust with CAT would but the 246 exhaust is almost stone cold, I have checked the connection to the Coil pack and I have taken the plugs out soon after running and they are hot and showing signs of firing...
I can only think that I'm either looking at a blocked CAT or I've used the wrong timing marks on the 246 cam shaft... But I was quite religious with following the numbers from 1-4 and putting the cam sprockets onto the right pin, but the timing marks had been tipexed and there are obviously two grooves per cam sprocket.... I'm starting to doubt myself now!!!
Does anyone know if the wrong groove on the sprocket was used whether the valves would have touched the piston crown and locked the engine on turning it.... Any way I can check without stripping the front down again???
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Right,
I now have an OBD II reader, I have erased the codes and tried again and it still has p0340 P0300 and P0100...
I have tried a genuine I hasten to add MAF, Cam Sensor and Crank Sensor... And near as makes no difference!!
But all is not lost because whilst under the engine I noticed the 135 exhaust was getting very hot as an exhaust with CAT would but the 246 exhaust is almost stone cold, I have checked the connection to the Coil pack and I have taken the plugs out soon after running and they are hot and showing signs of firing...
I can only think that I'm either looking at a blocked CAT or I've used the wrong timing marks on the 246 cam shaft... But I was quite religious with following the numbers from 1-4 and putting the cam sprockets onto the right pin, but the timing marks had been tipexed and there are obviously two grooves per cam sprocket.... I'm starting to doubt myself now!!!
Does anyone know if the wrong groove on the sprocket was used whether the valves would have touched the piston crown and locked the engine on turning it.... Any way I can check without stripping the front down again???
The answer to that is here.. post #353
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=128923.345
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Thanks I hadn't seen that one!!
Looks like the front of the engine is coming off again... When I did the belt I used an 8" long ratchet and socket to turn the engine so would be highly surprised if that would have bent a valve rather than just lock up...
Front of engine off on Sunday I think as I'm off to the Classic car and restoration show tomorrow...
Thanks will update the post later with any and all results!!!
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But you say your car is running ok apart from a slight misfire... that link you have just read was my car and with a cam fitted wrong it only ran on one bank...
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I think my situation will be similar but not nessasarily the same.
I'm 99.9% sure the sprockets are on the right way round as in they are on the key ways for 1 2 3 4 but it may be that I have used the wrong timing mark when timing up...
Therefore a possibility that just one cam is about 1/4 turn out...
Still just speculating at the moment!!
Proof will be in the stripping!
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I do hate to see forum threads that just stop abruptly normally when someone has solved their problem then decides not to post.
My friend now has his omega back and she is running really well.
The final solution was a crank sensor and a coil pack....
All engine codes erased and rechecked to show an all clear...
Thanks to all those that posted
Dave
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Good stuff :y
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:y