Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Diamond Black Geezer on 30 March 2015, 08:46:47
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So, what was the final conclusion on these - are they worth it? Or might I as well just go for normal rubber? And if I go for 'normal' rubber - Vx are four times the price of febi ones. Presumably they're ten times the quality, but I don't know. Fitting to a car that's on 175k, so safe to say the old ones are past their best.
Opinions appreciated, ta! :y
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If you're unsure, get a ride in a car with them fitted... But both my cars have them, and I wouldn't fit anything else :y
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Thanks. I assumed it was much the same as with the front Polys - you're not 'firming up the ride' or making it 'jarring', it's more a control/compliance thing? But at the same time I wouldn't want it to be such a negligible difference that it's not noticeable, and I could save nearly a ton and get 'cheap n cheerfuls'.
Unless a majority of OOFers now reply with a real opposition to them, I think that's me decided. Ta :)
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They are slightly firmer in general, but the main advantage for me is the lack of void holes. This removes the rather odd sensation of the standard rubber bushes that allows the rear axle to move over when turning Into a bend. Imo this is difficult to differentiate between a slide and body movement.
So poly give a lot more confidence and stability without undue harshness.
Only thing is to insure the smaller diameter central metal spacer in the bush itself doesn't disappear into the captive nut void in the body on tightening. Or it won't do up correctly. :y
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Where is a good place to buy them? I need to poly my front bushes so I'm starting to think about the rear as well. :y
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Pedders link in parts section. :y
Think Oof get 10% off, but check.
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Yep, pm Michael via his profile in the sticky in parts :y
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Ta. :y
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Part number is EP1145 Monaro Rear End Pack (Harrop diff). Check price, even with discount as Monkfish Performance sell them for £99 plus postage :y
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I think they went up, £129.95 on their website :-(
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I think they went up, £129.95 on their website :-(
will check again later, but the kit with the diff mount was £129... But it is a waste of £30 as it will never, ever fit an Omega. Pedders are considerably more expensive than Monkfish.
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A bit cheaper than they used to be from Pedders...
http://www.pedders.co.uk/urethane-cradle-mount-bush-2pkt_p4533567.htm
A smidge cheaper from Monkfish...
http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/rear-end-pac--monaro-models-with-harrop-diff-cover_p23023672.htm
:y
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A bit cheaper than they used to be from Pedders...
http://www.pedders.co.uk/urethane-cradle-mount-bush-2pkt_p4533567.htm
A smidge cheaper from Monkfish...
http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/rear-end-pac--monaro-models-with-harrop-diff-cover_p23023672.htm
:y
You are of course aware that Pedders (UK) and Monkfish are one and the same company, operating from the same premises a few miles down the road from here.
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Yup :y which does nothing to explain the oft gaping chasm in their pricing strategy :-\
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Yup :y which does nothing to explain the oft gaping chasm in their pricing strategy :-\
S'not unusual, esp if one arm of the business has a better recognition/reputation.
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They are slightly firmer in general, but the main advantage for me is the lack of void holes. This removes the rather odd sensation of the standard rubber bushes that allows the rear axle to move over when turning Into a bend. Imo this is difficult to differentiate between a slide and body movement.
So poly give a lot more confidence and stability without undue harshness.
Only thing is to insure the smaller diameter central metal spacer in the bush itself doesn't disappear into the captive nut void in the body on tightening. Or it won't do up correctly. :y
Now that is the exact symptom of mine that I have hated since I bought the thing 2 years ago.
Tbh, I have always put it down to a mixture of 3 things ................ 17" wheels, LPG tank behind the axle and shagged springs / dampers but reading that has made me think again :-\
Wheels are the same but springs and shocks are new and when I took it for a play steady drive today, it was still felt unsteady at the back :( I have had a poke around at the back before but other then the shagged shocks, I could never put my finger on it :(
Is they a way to check without pulling things apart ?
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Rear end on ramps, trolley jack under diff, raise diff 1/4" and undo the four bolts holding the rear subframe mounts... If the mounts stay put, you need new donuts, if the mounts are floppy or fall off, you need the mounts and donuts sorting :y
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Rear end on ramps, trolley jack under diff, raise diff 1/4" and undo the four bolts holding the rear subframe mounts... If the mounts stay put, you need new donuts, if the mounts are floppy or fall off, you need the mounts and donuts sorting :y
Cheers Al, I think ::) ;D
I daren't tell the missus
I've spent over 800 quid on this car since last September :(
I'll be tigers gonadLESS if she ever adds up what i've spent :'( :'(
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;D
It will either be;
1, what I always wrongly refer to as the dif blocks (or mounts as Al says) these actually have nothing to do with the dif, but hold the rear of the subframe up. The bushes related to the dif never fail though so I think it's safe to call them dif blocks.
These are the two U shaped bushes shown in the masters rear spring change guide. If the entire weight of the rear of the car has been jacked up via the rear dif, you can guarantee they will have suffered at least a partial separation or tear.
2, donuts, as said. If original, they will almost certainly be oppsed by now. Reach under and feel for the rubber bump stops from under the inboard edge of the triangular plate, and pull them sideways with your fingers, if the rubber breaks away, they are buggered.
Even if new, it's the void holes that allow the movement. It's supposed to improve handling by allow the sideways force of the body to articulate the rear subframe, think four wheel steering, allowing the car to turn easier. But I hate the sensation personally.
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I found the poly doughnuts a revelation, but TBH given that the old ones were shot to buggery....
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I found the poly doughnuts a revelation, but TBH given that the old ones were shot to buggery....
I remember fitting new ones to Rusty. I do I do.
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I found the poly doughnuts a revelation, but TBH given that the old ones were shot to buggery....
I remember fitting new ones to Rusty. I do I do. I do.
There's an ABBA song about that :D
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I think your safe, prety sure he said he was over all that ;D
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I think your safe, prety sure he said he was over all that ;D
Naah, that was the dangly pine things, wasn't it? :-\
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Thems too... ::) ;D
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Is there a handy OOF fitting guide for donut bushes?
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Same as the guide for the Oe ones . Except easier, as the poly ones just push in.
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Cheers Chris. No need for a DIY tool to force them home?
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Nope, not even a bat.
.....where would a diy tool come in anyway?
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Okay, poly's it is then :y
Best finish these front shocks and wishbones ect first though ;D
As always ............. cheers Lads :)
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Is there a handy OOF fitting guide for donut bushes?
The challenge is removing the old shot ones.
I can't really comment, as I've only ever done one (under chrisgixer's supervision at Newent on a member's car), as chrisgixer did both of my Omegas.
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Is there a handy OOF fitting guide for donut bushes?
The challenge is removing the old shot ones.
I can't really comment, as I've only ever done one (under chrisgixer's supervision at Newent on a member's car), as chrisgixer did both of my Omegas.
Jack one side up by sill, can use front jack point if you have a decent height jack
Undo four bolts (3on plate plus centre one),
Then keep jacking car until subframe is clear of the body,
Insert 30mm socket upside down over top of bush core,
Lower car fully,
Re jack car and insert 24mm socket betweem 30mm socket and body,
Lower car and core of old bush should now be on the floor,
Then remove rubber insert from bush casing,
Then beat ten bells of shit out of the metal outer casing until it also falls out,
Remove remaining rubber,
Clean and copper slip hole in subframe,
Insert poly donut, pad goes in above subframe,
Refit plate and bolts and tighten as per Haynes,
Repeat tother side...
Simples... :y
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That's what it says on the Pedders packet.
But most omegas are so buggered the rubber falls out leaving the metal in the reses. So may as well pull the thing out with a bearing puller.
...of course, as Master discovered, that doesn't work either of the metal is rusted as well as it just folds up. So that just leaves digging it out with a stick/hammer and chisel. ;D
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I know which is more fun :D
It's easier to beat the outer bit to smithereens if the core is out of the way... a cold chisel and decent whacking stick will soon see it sorted 8)
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Safer with a puller, less damage to hands sills and body work. But if you must ;D
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;D
Your puller is clearly better than mine... no damage to the car though, only the bush 8)
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Is there a handy OOF fitting guide for donut bushes?
The challenge is removing the old shot ones.
I can't really comment, as I've only ever done one (under chrisgixer's supervision at Newent on a member's car), as chrisgixer did both of my Omegas.
Jack one side up by sill, can use front jack point if you have a decent height jack
Undo four bolts (3on plate plus centre one),
Then keep jacking car until subframe is clear of the body,
Insert 30mm socket upside down over top of bush core,
Lower car fully,
Re jack car and insert 24mm socket betweem 30mm socket and body,
Lower car and core of old bush should now be on the floor,
Then remove rubber insert from bush casing,
Then beat ten bells of shit out of the metal outer casing until it also falls out,
Remove remaining rubber,
Clean and copper slip hole in subframe,
Insert poly donut, pad goes in above subframe,
Refit plate and bolts and tighten as per Haynes,
Repeat tother side...
Simples... :y
Have to say I like the sound of that method - using the weight of the car effectively as a press. Will bear that in mind as I don't have any kind of puller. :y
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If poly bushes are so durable, would you use a set off a scrapper? ??? ::) :-\
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Yep. If not damaged ;)
Let's face it there's plenty of trade on other parts less durable.
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Yes didn't think of it like that. ::) Ta. :y
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Wonder if I get get someone to fit the ones I have sat in the boot? ::)
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Wonder if I get get someone to fit the ones I have sat in the boot? ::)
Be done in about ten* mins if you bring them to the Wycombe meet :y
*ish
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Wonder if I get get someone to fit the ones I have sat in the boot? ::)
Be done in about ten* mins if you bring them to the Wycombe meet :y
*ish
Race YA! ;D you do one side, I'll do the other. ;D
.....actually no, what am I saying? Al you do them. Your the man! ;D
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;D
Wouldn't be the first time I have spent an entire meet under a car ::)
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Great. I'll bring mine, Andy brings his and you can use our cars for your race. It'll be a fairer competition to do 2 complete cars! :y
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They will still be in the boot at Wycombe if I turn up in the right car :D
Seriously, if someone wants to fit them I'm more than happy to assist and pay with beer tokens.
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Easier too... Removing both centre bolts at once is pretty much guaranteed to allow the whole subframe to shift, which makes refitting the bolts, um..., interesting ::)
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Hmm yes, that's what happened when fitting the standard ones on the 2.6. :-X
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Great. I'll bring mine, Andy brings his and you can use our cars for your race. It'll be a fairer competition to do 2 complete cars! :y
....or you can watch whats done, and do your oppsin own! ;D :P ;D
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Perfect, do mine and then I'll watch Tigger do his while stuffing my face with food and drink. :y
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:y ;D
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I was merely offering my poor old car in the interests of science. ::) ;)
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Is there any place I could buy these Pedders EP1145 poly donut bushes?
All I can find is "sold out".
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Is there any place I could buy these Pedders EP1145 poly donut bushes?
All I can find is "sold out".
Does these Calibra bushes fit?
http://www.strongflex.eu/en/opel-vauxhall-calibra-90-97/1207-rear-beam-bush-sport-5902553510157.html
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I don't know personally.
I do like your logic, however. The Calibra back suspension is very, very close to Omegas/Carltons. Unless the part numbers for original GM Calibra and Omega bushes are the same, which would pretty much guarantee they'd fit of course, it'd take someone with a couple of scrap sets to post the dimensions. :-\
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Personally I could not think of anything worse than Poly donut bushes, I put standard new ones (non-Poly) in the 2.2. Wish I never had bothered, I much preferred the old 'soft' ones!
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Is there any place I could buy these Pedders EP1145 poly donut bushes?
All I can find is "sold out".
Rign Monkfish Performance. Should be a stock item :y
Specifically, you require the following...
Rear End Pack, Monaro, (models fitted with Harrop diff cover) was £99 last time I looked :y
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Put mine in today, but have a coolant leak to fix before I test them :'(
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I don't know personally.
I do like your logic, however. The Calibra back suspension is very, very close to Omegas/Carltons. Unless the part numbers for original GM Calibra and Omega bushes are the same, which would pretty much guarantee they'd fit of course, it'd take someone with a couple of scrap sets to post the dimensions. :-\
Carlton ones don't fit (well, don't stay in), chrisgixer has proved that.
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Personally I could not think of anything worse than Poly donut bushes, I put standard new ones (non-Poly) in the 2.2. Wish I never had bothered, I much preferred the old 'soft' ones!
Yes, but you're only happy when the suspension is completely shagged, and steering is guesswork.
Poly not really harder than rubber, just last longer
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Poly not really harder than rubber, just last longer
So given that most Omega's are at least 15 years old now, is it worth the extra expense of poly's? :-\
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Personally I could not think of anything worse than Poly donut bushes, I put standard new ones (non-Poly) in the 2.2. Wish I never had bothered, I much preferred the old 'soft' ones!
Yes, but you're only happy when the suspension is completely shagged, and steering is guesswork.
Poly not really harder than rubber, just last longer
So tunnie has a future as a boat captain? ;D
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Poly not really harder than rubber, just last longer
So given that most Omega's are at least 15 years old now, is it worth the extra expense of poly's? :-\
Rubber ones, IME, start to degrade quite quickly, polys wont.
If the car has only 2yrs left in it, it'll get whatever is cheapest, unless your driving demands a well set up car.
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Poly not really harder than rubber, just last longer
So given that most Omega's are at least 15 years old now, is it worth the extra expense of poly's? :-\
Rubber ones, IME, start to degrade quite quickly, polys wont.
If the car has only 2yrs left in it, it'll get whatever is cheapest, unless your driving demands a well set up car.
Given that mine has done nearly 250k on the originals in almost 16 years, I reckon that rubber will do just fine. ;)
Incidentally, I had an advisory on the doughnuts in 2011. I never got round to changing them and they've never been mentioned by the 2 other garages that have MOT'd the old girl since then! ;D
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Originals still ok really even at 180k, 15 years. So replacements don't need to last long ;D
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Originals still ok really even at 180k, 15 years. So replacements don't need to last long ;D
You forget, I've driven yours ;). There was no part of your suspension that was any good at 130k ;D
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Quick answer to the thread title...
Yes
Both 3.2's have them so I just need to source another pair for the other one.
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Originals still ok really even at 180k, 15 years. So replacements don't need to last long ;D
You forget, I've driven yours ;). There was no part of your suspension that was any good at 130k ;D
It's still good at 188k :P
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Quick answer to the thread title...
Yes
Both 3.2's have them so I just need to source another pair for the other one.
More Omegas must have these fitted than Monaros ;D
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Is there any place I could buy these Pedders EP1145 poly donut bushes?
All I can find is "sold out".
Rign Monkfish Performance. Should be a stock item :y
Specifically, you require the following...
Rear End Pack, Monaro, (models fitted with Harrop diff cover) was £99 last time I looked :y
Thanks, got them ordered!
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Don't know if it's in the way the two cars were driven, or other environmental factors, but my PFL V6 at 180k felt appreciably 'tighter', on the original rubbers, vs by old Turbo Weasel, at 140k. Can't claim it was all down to the donuts, but there was definitely 'something'.
Got some polys in a box ready for fitting this summer, so will happily report back when I have :)
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/nf1ywxnk1cn9wep/2016-05-14%2019.17.53.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nf1ywxnk1cn9wep/2016-05-14%2019.17.53.jpg?dl=0)
1.5 years old donuts, I remember that those should have been quality ones.. Well, new polys just replaced, no more trouble with these :)
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I'm going to fit mine this year. ::) Had them quite a while now but just never got around to it with long shifts and all that. Got a little bit more time now with rolling shift day off so really should do them.
Bought them in the group buy, so how long ago was that? ::)
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Bought them in the group buy, so how long ago was that? ::)
When I still had my old garage...
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I've had mine (and still not fitted them) for so long I bought them off a member who bought them in the group buy, ran his car for years, never fitted them, sold the car, then sold me the Polys :D
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Bought them in the group buy, so how long ago was that? ::)
When I still had my old garage...
You did indeed. :y The next time I saw it, it was a pile of rubble. :'( Weren't somebody's polys still in your garage when it went airborne?
Anyway, I must make a concerted effort to fit mine this year. :y
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Bought them in the group buy, so how long ago was that? ::)
When I still had my old garage...
You did indeed. :y The next time I saw it, it was a pile of rubble. :'( Weren't somebody's polys still in your garage when it went airborne?
Anyway, I must make a concerted effort to fit mine this year. :y
Yes :'(