Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Joiner on 31 March 2015, 22:45:00
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Hi all,
Just got in after Green Flag failed to get the Miggy working.
Basically went to our local Tesco's at 8, came out 30 minutes later and she wont start. Plenty of power, checked this with a meter. All lights come on with ignition but engine will not turn. Its as though someone has pinched my stater motor or it thinks its in gear. Chances are it may even think this and it could be a dodgy switch on the P position on the shift (its an auto btw)
The guy from Green Flag connected up his basic diagnostics hand held and said it couldn't access the ECU?
If it is an immobiliser problem is this a costly and difficult fix that only a VX dealer can do? If so it'll probably be more than my Miggy is actually worth!
Any advice would be great.
Cheers all :y
Edit: Keyfob battery is old and don't have another key. Could this have any effect on it. The key fob DID unlock the CL so I can only assume that the immobiliser should have deactivated itself?
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Try a pedal test ..... throttle & brake pedal to the floor, turn ignition on - don't start it ;) and count the fllashes from the engine management light.
Immobiliser problems will still allow the engine to turn, but it won't start and it'll continually flash the EML ;)
Could be a gear selector fault :-\
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Hi Andy,
Yes, I know the pedal trick, haven't tried it on this occasion. There maybe some truth in the gear selector issue as once in a while the key wont release when placed in P. Is there a switch/sensor that would cause this problem?
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Hi Andy,
Yes, I know the pedal trick, haven't tried it on this occasion. There maybe some truth in the gear selector issue as once in a while the key wont release when placed in P. Is there a switch/sensor that would cause this problem?
If the car doesn't know it's in Park or Neutral, then it's not going to know that it can start ...... how are the selector lights on the transmission selector? They can do their own thing if the selector needs a clean
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90673.0
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I have noticed on the odd occasion in the past that they have all flashed when selecting a gear but I ignored it as everything still worked fine. Im hoping that its not going to be a costly fix whatever it is.
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Have you tried starting it in neutral ?
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Can't say I have Kevin, never even thought to if I'm honest. Can't try now as Ive had to leave her where she is over night and come home. :-\
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Have you tried starting it in neutral ?
Was thinking the exact same thing...
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Quick update on this.
Went to meet the recovery truck to collect the car 30 minutes ago. When I left her last night I removed all the main fuses, replaced them this morning and she fired up no problem. Drove 2 miles homes, parked up and killed the engine. Tried to start her, nothing, wouldnt turn over.
Tried to start in neutral as suggested, no joy.
Did the pedal trick, no faults reported.
Even tried holding the ignition on fully while moving the transmission selector through the positions to see if it caught but nothing.
Help........................... :-\
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Quick update on this.
Went to meet the recovery truck to collect the car 30 minutes ago. When I left her last night I removed all the main fuses, replaced them this morning and she fired up no problem. Drove 2 miles homes, parked up and killed the engine. Tried to start her, nothing, wouldnt turn over.
Tried to start in neutral as suggested, no joy.
Did the pedal trick, no faults reported.
Even tried holding the ignition on fully while moving the transmission selector through the positions to see if it caught but nothing.
Help........................... :-\
OOF will solve the riddle...................................eventually. :y
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Sure hope so Doc :y
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Quick update in case this is relevant?
When I got her home this morning I decided to leave the fuses in and let her cool down. Tried starting her after around 45 minutes, nothing. Tried again after another 20 minutes, again nothing. Tried after another 20 minutes and she fired up. Three times on the trot to be exact but after a fourth turn of the key, dead again. Left her for twenty minutes, she started again twice but not on the third attempt.
Just went out after another 20 odd minutes, turned the key. She began starting but I turned the key back before the engine caught. Tried again immediately but she wouldn't turn.
Does this give any clues as to what the problem is at all?
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You clearly have a problem with your gear selector switch which you pointed out on post #4 So think be best if you sorted that issue first :y
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You clearly have a problem with your gear selector switch which you pointed out on post #4 So think be best if you sorted that issue first :y
I don't doubt it Bigtime, what I don't understand is why it seems to go away if I leave her standing for a while?
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Sticky starter solenoid?
Do you hear any noises at all when you turn the key?
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Sticky starter solenoid?
Do you hear any noises at all when you turn the key?
No, no noise whatsoever. No clicking or anything. Its almost as if someone has removed the starter motor. ATM it looks like whatever I do I am going to have to get someone to look at the gear selector switch as I don't have the gear to get under the damn thing and get to it.
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Well the first check is to look for volts on the solenoid feed when the ignition key is turned.
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^ yep, that's where I'd start - far easier than trying to get at the selector switch and will isolate the fault to the starter.
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Well the first check is to look for volts on the solenoid feed when the ignition key is turned.
Think this is a garage job now, I wouldnt even know where to begin and thats if I could even get to the solenoid.....
On the plus side I do have a meter ;D
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Turn key...no noise....had this on a calibra and chased it everywhere, fuses, immob and it turned out as a worn ignition switch. Remove barrel then switch and start it with a screwdriver in the switch as diagnosis, key will need to be near the immob ring. £12 pattern for a new one :y
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put car in park.
Get someone to turn key into start position.
Now get your volt meter and put one end to a good Earth and the other end on the 10mm nut in pic.
It should read over 12V If so Its likely a solenoid problem.
If not then its back to Selector switch/Ignition barrel thoughts.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70807181/starter.jpg)
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Sticky starter solenoid?
Do you hear any noises at all when you turn the key?
You should hear a clicking if solenoid is sticky :-\ My bet is a faulty starter with a loose wire when it is warm doesn't contact properly and when cold makes a contact can you get your hands on a starter to try.
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Morning all,
Thanks everyone for you advice :)
Planning on using the extended weekend to try and sort this ignition issue. Going to have a look at the switch in the barrel as although it looks like I may have a problem with the selector switch it doesn't sound like this is the main problem. As I have never taken an ignition barrel out before are there any guides on OOF about doing this. Ive had a search and cant find one but sometimes forum searches don't always come up with what your looking for. Rather have a guide to follow as I don't want to f*** it up bullying it out when there's bound to be a method for doing this,
Cheers :y
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Given its appears to be affected when its hot, I'd certainly be looking at the test Bigtime posted up with the pic :y
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Not that I don't want to perform the solenoid test, its been said that it should still make some noise even if faulty. In my situ its stone dead quiet, as if someones removed the starter motor.
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Not that I don't want to perform the solenoid test, its been said that it should still make some noise even if faulty. In my situ its stone dead quiet, as if someones removed the starter motor.
No, a stuck solenoid may not even click. Hence, defo worth spending 20 mins doing that test :y
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OK, point taken TB, will do this first. :y
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Not that I don't want to perform the solenoid test, its been said that it should still make some noise even if faulty. In my situ its stone dead quiet, as if someones removed the starter motor.
No, a stuck solenoid may not even click. Hence, defo worth spending 20 mins doing that test :y
+1 :y do the starter test first as said it can be quiet too sorry for a slight mislead it would be better to try it first as its the easiest and most likely fault. Just a thought how many keys and tags are there on your key bunch ?? as too many puts a strain on the barrel and will lead to problems.
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Possible breakthrough?
Started this morning, took her for a five mile drive then tried it again after a couple of hours and she wouldnt start.
Did the pedal trick and I'm getting fault codes.
P1612 Immobiliser No Or Wrong Signal Immobiliser
P1613 Immobiliser No Or Wrong Signal Immobiliser
P1614 Wrong Transponder Key Immobiliser
P1614 Immobiliser Wrong Signal Received Immobiliser
P1614 Immobiliser NotProgrammed Immobiliser
Could this be as simple as a dying battery in the key fob?
Also, do not have a spare key to try this theory out.
Key does still have enough juice to unlock/lock the central locking though ???
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Possible breakthrough?
Started this morning, took her for a five mile drive then tried it again after a couple of hours and she wouldnt start.
Did the pedal trick and I'm getting fault codes.
P1612 Immobiliser No Or Wrong Signal Immobiliser
P1613 Immobiliser No Or Wrong Signal Immobiliser
P1614 Wrong Transponder Key Immobiliser
P1614 Immobiliser Wrong Signal Received Immobiliser
P1614 Immobiliser NotProgrammed Immobiliser
Could this be as simple as a dying battery in the key fob?
Also, do not have a spare key to try this theory out.
Key does still have enough juice to unlock/lock the central locking though ???
If there is enough battery to send a signal it will open the doors it isn't the fob that opens the locks but the car battery, get a battery and change it as that is a very cheap mend if it is the fob. :y :y
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All those codes suggest chip and/or transponder issues, sod all to do with key fob battery ::)
If the remote locks/unlocks car, and led on key doesn't flash when button held down then all is well with battery :y
Any work done which might have disturbed steering column shrouds?
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The fob battery has no impact whatsoever on the ability to start, as the fob plays no part in the immobiliser.
If the EML is *FLASHING* when trying to start, that's immobiliser. If not, go back to measuring the voltage at the solenoid ;)
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Sod it, just clutching at straws lads hoping it was going to be a cheap and easy fix :(
I know the battery is fine now, I took the key apart and got a meter on the battery. Its 3v peaking at 3.1 so the battery is definitely fine.
I'll check the voltage on the solenoid in the morning and report back. Hopefully that should give me a better idea of whats going on.............. ::)
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Evening all :)
Just to let you know it turned out to be the starter motor. Checked across the solenoid while my Lad turned the key. No problems that end. Gave the starter a cluck with a wrench while turning the key and hey presto she fired up :y
Strange though as every starter motor ive ever had fail has made all sorts of noises when stuck apart from this one. ???
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At least you know, and diagnosed it correctly.
It wasn't really going to be anything else though :)
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At least you know, and diagnosed it correctly.
It wasn't really going to be anything else though :)
Indeed TB, satisfying to confirm the problem but totally thrown by the lack of noise from the starter.
Now just baffled by the codes the pedal test threw up yesterday but we'll worry about that later :D
Anyway, thanks everyone for all your once more. Its very much appreciated :y
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At least you know, and diagnosed it correctly.
It wasn't really going to be anything else though :)
Indeed TB, satisfying to confirm the problem but totally thrown by the lack of noise from the starter.
Now just baffled by the codes the pedal test threw up yesterday but we'll worry about that later :D
Anyway, thanks everyone for all your once more. Its very much appreciated :y
I wouldn't worry about those codes, it may mean you need a new battery. I had all those codes once on my 2.2 .... when I kept flattening the battery trying to start the thing....whilst trying to discover why it wouldn't start.....it turned out to be the fuel pump at fault.....but the low battery voltage seemed to cause the ecu to through out immobiliser 'red herrings' :y
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At least you know, and diagnosed it correctly.
It wasn't really going to be anything else though :)
Indeed TB, satisfying to confirm the problem but totally thrown by the lack of noise from the starter.
Now just baffled by the codes the pedal test threw up yesterday but we'll worry about that later :D
Anyway, thanks everyone for all your once more. Its very much appreciated :y
That is because the solenoid is dead that is attached to the starter :y