Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Shackeng on 07 April 2015, 09:39:58
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I'm a bit disappointed that the Enduros on the rear of my TD Estate are shot after only 8k, considering I am not in the TB school of drivers. They've handled well, but a bit noisy, but I must now make a distress purchase before Thursday's MOT. >:(
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Was the wear pattern even? They lasted OK on my car when I used them. Not spectacular, but given the price it made them reasonable value. Then again, I think those Enduros (914s?) got superceded, and I was warned off the next generation.
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916 Enduros were bloody brilliant for what they cost, but the 926 Performance are mediocre by comparison... perfectly acceptable, just nothing special :(
The Mercedes was chewing through them every 7-8k miles as well if that's any consolation :-\
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Yep, the wear was even across the rear tyres which (Ooops) I have replaced with 926's!, I'll let you know. On a different note, the OS front has worn on the inside of the tyre only, with no uneven wear on the NS. Car has good rear WB bushes and polys in the front. Clearly requires a geo setup, but any comments on the wear? :y
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Might suggest a worn tre or lower ball joint... Prudent to go through the front end given it will need some degree of set up anyways... :y
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Thks Al, New TRE's last year, new wishbones 12k ago, possibly a ball joint then. :-\
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Tre ball joint would give play, which the driver would have to centre with the steering wheel. Or the car will vear off.
This means ball joint play affecting the toe setting would give equal wear on both front tyres. So not caused by a tor error.
Which means.... Camber. Either poor set up or a fault causing excess camber.
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916 Enduros were bloody brilliant for what they cost, but the 926 Performance are mediocre by comparison... perfectly acceptable, just nothing special :(
The Mercedes was chewing through them every 7-8k miles as well if that's any consolation :-\
I have to say I'm not overly impressed with the 926 - just put a pair on the front of the 2.2 and it's made it a bit 'twitchy' again. I had only just sorted that on previouse tyres with new wishbones, drop links and setup >:(
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Tre ball joint would give play, which the driver would have to centre with the steering wheel. Or the car will vear off.
This means ball joint play affecting the toe setting would give equal wear on both front tyres. So not caused by a tor error.
Which means.... Camber. Either poor set up or a fault causing excess camber.
:y :y :y
Runs fairly true, maybe a slight lean the the left, but narrow country road camber could account for that. :-\
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It just goes to show how fussy the Omega can be to both tyre design and geometry...
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Indeed! I think I may need a second opinion! :y
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Tre ball joint would give play, which the driver would have to centre with the steering wheel. Or the car will vear off.
This means ball joint play affecting the toe setting would give equal wear on both front tyres. So not caused by a tor error.
Which means.... Camber. Either poor set up or a fault causing excess camber.
:y :y :y
Runs fairly true, maybe a slight lean the the left, but narrow country road camber could account for that. :-\
Depends on the operator. Sometimes they add a bit of camber to the left side to counter the road crown. Which might explain it. Others prefer to reduce caster on the drivers side for similar reasons. I hate both these options personally as the car never runs true, even on the rare occasions that it actually runs on a flat piece of road.
Further, as the tyres then wear, oddly in your case, that can play havoc as well, and potentially cause a pull in its own right, as one tyre is then "geared" (like a cone) and wants to pull, while the other doesn't.
End of the day, ideally, you want the inner edge wear to be more than outside, BUT to be within limits by the time the tyre is worn out. ie, if the inner edge wear finishes the tyre with useable tread left in the centre then the camber is excessive for your driving as your not wanging round corners like the set up operator thinks you should be.... Or he's just made a bollards of it.
Basically, "some" inner edge wear should be evident by the time the tyre is shot. So it might be that the other more evenly worn side is too upright. (This doesn't apply to more "progressive" drivers as they'll wear both edges, leaving ALOT of centre tread still to use, although still want slightly more inner edge wear than the outside)
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And to add, preferably imo, for both tyres to wear the same.
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The NS front looks barely worn, as does 90% of the OS tread,I've put them on the back now, and will get a geo setup while the fronts are new. :y
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Got Runway 926's on the Estate - no issues, runs true without wander. Had full geo done a few months back (July last year)
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Got Runway 926's on the Estate - no issues, runs true without wander. Had full geo done a few months back (July last year)
:y :y :y
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Got Runway 926's on the Estate - no issues, runs true without wander. Had full geo done a few months back (July last year)
What am I doing wrong :o
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Could be a slight variation in set up or component wear... Even tyre pressures have a bearing... :y
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Run pressures on the Estate as 34 front 36 rear
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I'm on 32 all round so will try a slight increase. Going to try swapping the 'evergreens' back onto the fronts as it was. Failing that given wishbones, all track rods and drop links are new what other components should I be checking? Could the wishbones (atp) have failed in 1000 miles? The symptoms are very much like it was before I changed them.
Steve
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I'm on 32 all round so will try a slight increase. Going to try swapping the 'evergreens' back onto the fronts as it was. Failing that given wishbones, all track rods and drop links are new what other components should I be checking? Could the wishbones (atp) have failed in 1000 miles? The symptoms are very much like it was before I changed them.
Steve
A set of Delphis did in only a few more miles a few years ago. >:(
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Agreed re the Delphi ones... I had a similar experience with them, as did a member in the States >:(
If fitted correctly, ie tightened with the car on the ground, then there should be no issue :-\
Other items which can be overlooked are the front top mounts as they deteriorate over time, or the steering idler, as play in this can cause directional oddities...
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With rubber bushes, tighten bolts wheels loaded, then set up for full geo, THEN fit new tyres once all is well.
Poly the same but it's not necessary to tighten the bolts wheels loaded.
If bushes are suspect, they need examination.
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Agreed re the Delphi ones... I had a similar experience with them, as did a member in the States >:(
If fitted correctly, ie tightened with the car on the ground, then there should be no issue :-\
Other items which can be overlooked are the front top mounts as they deteriorate over time, or the steering idler, as play in this can cause directional oddities...
Thanks Al, best way to check these is...?
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Remove the top nut and plate, there's still another nut underneath it so it won't ping off, and check for cracking and or undo flexing as you push down on that side... both should be obvious when you see them...
Also with the plate removed, have an assistant turn the wheel lock to lock, car on ground and engine on/off to suit... looking for torsional tearing...
Also, with the top plate resecured in place, hold the plate as an assistant turns the wheel lock to lock... car on ground (engine on or off... makes no odds). You're looking to FEEL any roughness/sticking in the support bearing as the strut turns. No roughness etc then bearing is ok, any hint then it probably needs replacing :-\
The bearings can be repacked with grease if their just a bit rough, but as you need to remove them (and the top mount) to do this, you might as well just replace them both imho :y
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Remove the top nut and plate, there's still another nut underneath it so it won't ping off, and check for cracking and or undo flexing as you push down on that side... both should be obvious when you see them...
Also with the plate removed, have an assistant turn the wheel lock to lock, car on ground and engine on/off to suit... looking for torsional tearing...
Also, with the top plate resecured in place, hold the plate as an assistant turns the wheel lock to lock... car on ground (engine on or off... makes no odds). You're looking to FEEL any roughness/sticking in the support bearing as the strut turns. No roughness etc then bearing is ok, any hint then it probably needs replacing :-\
The bearings can be repacked with grease if their just a bit rough, but as you need to remove them (and the top mount) to do this, you might as well just replace them both imho :y
Excellent, thanks, and what is the best way to check the idler, just visually for play from underneath with steering wheel movement, and wheels on ground?
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Any vertical play in the idler, replace. If you try really hard, it should only flex a fraction.
Top mounts, lift bonnet, visually check the gap between the top plate and the body(turret) if it starts looking like about 10mm then it's at the very best, a bit tired. A new set will see that gap reduced to a couple of mm.
This probably applies to any omega that's still on original top mounts, esp those with the heavier engines... At best still useable but really should replace them.
Most bearings are slightly pitted as they spend most of the time in one position/dead ahead. They've had the entire weight of the front of car sat in them since manufacture so....
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Any vertical play in the idler, replace. If you try really hard, it should only flex a fraction.
Top mounts, lift bonnet, visually check the gap between the top plate and the body(turret) if it starts looking like about 10mm then it's at the very best, a bit tired. A new set will see that gap reduced to a couple of mm.
This probably applies to any omega that's still on original top mounts, esp those with the heavier engines... At best still useable but really should replace them.
Most bearings are slightly pitted as they spend most of the time in one position/dead ahead. They've had the entire weight of the front of car sat in them since manufacture so....
Thanks Chris, is that checked by steering wheel movement?
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Both, by hand, and by looking through from the rear of the wheel arch as your beautiful assistant that makes lovely biscuits moves the steering. ;)
As you get to know them, both tests will give a guide as to how little play as acceptable, considering the weight of the car on it while in a bend. Etc...
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Both, by hand, and by looking through from the rear of the wheel arch as your beautiful assistant that makes lovely biscuits moves the steering. ;)
As you get to know them, both tests will give a guide as to how little play as acceptable, considering the weight of the car on it while in a bend. Etc...
:y :y :y
When are you bringing SWMBO down for the pub lunch I promised you?
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With rubber bushes, tighten bolts wheels loaded, then set up for full geo, THEN fit new tyres once all is well.
Poly the same but it's not necessary to tighten the bolts wheels loaded.
If bushes are suspect, they need examination.
That is what I did and all was well with the 'Evergreen' budget tyres on the from and GT's on the back - needed to replace the GT's and moved the Evergreens to the back with the new Runway's on the front and on a 400 mile drive the handling was all twitchy and really responding to the road. Tonight I have just swapped the tyres back around so the Evergreens are on the front again and things are much better on a short test.
However I would like to know what's going on as I only have a little wear left in the evergreens before I need to buy something!
I suspect I may need to get a second opinion as I can't really find any play on the front end - although I will try the top mount tests tomorrow. Is it fair to say that as they are from 2001 and done 125K just change them?
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I would probably bin the shocks too tbh :-\
It will require another set up, but if the setting is a bit more precise than 'in the green' you should appreciate the difference :y
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So, front and rear shocks, top mounts and donut bushes + setup ?
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Given the mileage it might be prudent :-\
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Given the mileage it might be prudent :-\
Umm....then I start to look at the rust that needs sorting in my other thread and wonder if its actually worth it :-[
Problem is I like the car ::)
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Every Omega requires a certain amount of work somewhere between 80-120k miles, regardless of age or model...
Suspension rebuilding,
Aircon condensor,
Camcover gaskets,
HBV,
Autobox fluid/filter,
Door lock motors,
Exhaust.
Coil/dispack,
Thermostat,
Crank/cam sensor.
On cars covering high mileage, these are usually closer together, almost becoming 3/4 year service items...
On cars covering lower annual mileages, these items might seem to follow one from the next, but only need doing once a decade or so.
Geometry should almost be considered a bi annual event due to the state of the roads.
Rust is a bit different as issues go, each car is individual... you have treated it as a temporary measure... if you can weld, then when you pull the shocks, that would be a good time to plate the wheelarch side and treat the engine bay side as well. That way you can be certain that it has been held at bay...
These cars are mechanically predictable, but as they physically age, corrosion does become a greater issue :-\
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Every Omega requires a certain amount of work somewhere between 80-120k miles, regardless of age or model...
Suspension rebuilding, - Wishbones, 4 x track rods and Drop Links done
Aircon condensor,
Camcover gaskets,
HBV,
Autobox fluid/filter,
Door lock motors,
Exhaust.
Coil/dispack,
Thermostat,
Crank/cam sensor.
Well I've done a good amount of that, say probably just need to keep going!
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That only leaves shocks and their mountings and potentially springs as and when they break... usually only the rear springs on these, and the suspension will be good for a while... expect to refurbish the wishbones track rods after about 20k...
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Well, my poor old girl before I got hold of her had to following...
Suspension rebuilding - nope
Aircon condensor - broke them removed
Camcover gaskets - nope
HBV - nope
Autobox fluid/filter - nope, bought never fitted :o
Door lock motors - nope
Exhaust - nope
Coil/dispack - yes (only because leaking gaskets blew it ::) )
Thermostat - nope
Crank/cam sensor - yes
The poor love! Since then...
Suspension rebuilding - yes
Aircon condensor - sourcing one
Camcover gaskets - yes
HBV - got one
Autobox fluid/filter - got one
Door lock motors - working ok (for now!)
Exhaust - yes
Coil/dispack - yes
Thermostat - no
Crank/cam sensor - looking for 'just in case' spare
Plus a squillion other things. And she's survived without all that love for 170k!! :)
Honestly, as taxi Al says, it may look like you're doing job after job - but all of a sudden she's (in theory, never say never) trouble-free once you've got them jobs out the way :y
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Thing is, unless you're spending north of £2000 on an Omega, all those will need doing sooner rather than later... the less you spend, the more you can expect to do...
There is no such thing as a cheap Omega, but a mechanically sorted one will be pretty trouble free for as long as you keep it... trouble is if you've just spent your last £500 buying one only to find the wishbones are shot, then it doesn't take long before you've spent another £300 on it, and that's just to be able to drive it... throw in a misfire code or two and a coolant leak and you'll be about ready to hang yourself ::)
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That only leaves shocks and their mountings and potentially springs as and when they break... usually only the rear springs on these, and the suspension will be good for a while... expect to refurbish the wishbones track rods after about 20k...
Yes I m getting on with it this morning, treating and staying the rear arch rust :y
Is it Blistein B4 shocks recommended on standard ride height car?
Top mounts - VX only?
Steve
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B4s from Balance Motorsport, top mounts... http://www.allgermanparts.co.uk/product/product?path=1219_1228&product_id=106713&group=100371 :y
Rear donuts, either from Allgerman or Monkfish for poly ones... poly ones are significantly more expensive, but never wear out and help make the rear end far more secure if you're an enthusiastic driver, so horses for courses really :y
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Thank you - not sure I can be enthusiastic in the 2.2 , will save poly for the 2.5 :y
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Remove the top nut and plate, there's still another nut underneath it so it won't ping off, and check for cracking and or undo flexing as you push down on that side... both should be obvious when you see them...
Also with the plate removed, have an assistant turn the wheel lock to lock, car on ground and engine on/off to suit... looking for torsional tearing...
Also, with the top plate resecured in place, hold the plate as an assistant turns the wheel lock to lock... car on ground (engine on or off... makes no odds). You're looking to FEEL any roughness/sticking in the support bearing as the strut turns. No roughness etc then bearing is ok, any hint then it probably needs replacing :-\
The bearings can be repacked with grease if their just a bit rough, but as you need to remove them (and the top mount) to do this, you might as well just replace them both imho :y
Had the top plates off today, doesn't seem to be any undue flexing/or movement, and not rough when steering operated by "Debbie McGee". Strange though, as the NS securing nut under the plate was only finger tight. :-\
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Both, by hand, and by looking through from the rear of the wheel arch as your beautiful assistant that makes lovely biscuits moves the steering. ;)
As you get to know them, both tests will give a guide as to how little play as acceptable, considering the weight of the car on it while in a bend. Etc...
Checked the idler for play today, can't see any, so it must just be just a geo required. Must be 3 years since the last one. :-[