Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: horsecow on 10 May 2015, 21:20:57

Title: RX-8 or not???
Post by: horsecow on 10 May 2015, 21:20:57
Hey guys, I've been looking around at various different cars lately and I've really taken a shine i the RX8. I just think they are an amazing looking car and on paper it looks like they should be great fun. They can be picked up with low miles and good condition for little money so thats a plus. The only problem I have is that I know nothing of the ''Wankel'' engines or the rotary system, I'm hoping some of the more experienced and knowledgeable members on here will be able to give me some advice.

All help and advice much appreciated.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 10 May 2015, 21:27:45
Hey guys, I've been looking around at various different cars lately and I've really taken a shine i the RX8. I just think they are an amazing looking car and on paper it looks like they should be great fun. They can be picked up with low miles and good condition for little money so thats a plus. The only problem I have is that I know nothing of the ''Wankel'' engines or the rotary system, I'm hoping some of the more experienced and knowledgeable members on here will be able to give me some advice.

All help and advice much appreciated.

I wonder.....should I comment. ::)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: chrisgixer on 10 May 2015, 21:29:46
Yes, quick, he sound keen.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: 4x4 on 10 May 2015, 21:32:40
Oh no no no  :o




They are cheap for a very good reason.....
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: hoody on 10 May 2015, 21:36:10
Look great but the engines dont seem to last long,hot starting problems,thirsty beasts,if the engine has not been looked after properly its going to cost a lot to put right.Look good though.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Nick W on 10 May 2015, 21:41:06
In a word; no.
Or more usefully; NO, NO, NO, NO, NO NOT WHILE THERE IS STILL A HOLE IN YOUR ARSE!!!!!!!!!!!


The RX8 is final, conclusive proof(not that any was needed) that Wankel engines - they're not rotaries which are piston engines - are utterly unsuitable for cars.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: EMD on 10 May 2015, 21:44:46
Hey guys, I've been looking around at various different cars lately and I've really taken a shine i the RX8. I just think they are an amazing looking car and on paper it looks like they should be great fun. They can be picked up with low miles and good condition for little money so thats a plus. The only problem I have is that I know nothing of the ''Wankel'' engines or the rotary system, I'm hoping some of the more experienced and knowledgeable members on here will be able to give me some advice.

All help and advice much appreciated.

I wonder.....should I comment. ::)

 ::)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: horsecow on 10 May 2015, 21:50:12
Hmmmmm, so I guess I'm going to have to look again then!!  ??? :-[ :-\
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: 4x4 on 10 May 2015, 22:00:03
Lwb 3.2 frontera auto  ;D
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: joff on 11 May 2015, 02:37:23
there is always an Omega :o ::)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 May 2015, 08:29:15
there is always an Omega :o ::)
There aren't any left in Ireland as they've all been diffed to death :'(
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: biggriffin on 11 May 2015, 09:58:42
Use more oil than omega drinks fuel. :)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: aaronjb on 11 May 2015, 10:30:10
They're great cars if you're willing to live with the risk of compression problems and remember never to flood the thing.. throw on a set of slight lowering springs and the handling is like a big gokart, keep the engine on song and they're extremely rapid (in 231 guise, anyway) and they're pretty handy around a track, too.

But, you have to watch for:

Compression problems - this means trouble starting when hot, flood very easily etc
Coil pack problems - if the tops of the coils are turning white they're toast, LS1 coils are a popular upgrade for ~£250 and help with potential flooding issues
Expensive spark plugs - seriously, seriously expensive spark plugs
Regular oil changes - sump oil is injected into the combustion chamber so you need to run the right type and clean oil, alternatively fit a 2-stroke oil kit which replaces the sump injection system with a reservoir of neat, clean 2 stroke oil up where the washer bottle was (and replaces it with a tiny washer bottle)


Mine needs a rebuild, but I knew that when I bought it for ~£800. A decent car should come in about £3k or buy a known bad car like mine for peanuts and then pay another ~£1200-2000 for a rebuild (less if you can do it yourself) from somewhere like Apex Rotary.  Personally I'd do that as at least then you know it's not going to cork it in a short space of time!


Oh yeah, they're quite small inside so if you're particularly tall or have a fat arse like me you might find it a bit of a squeeze.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: horsecow on 11 May 2015, 10:32:44
there is always an Omega :o ::)
There aren't any left in Ireland as they've all been diffed to death :'(

Not all of them but most.  I still have an omega myself but I fancied a change and thought the rx8 looked like a lot of fun for the money. Now I'm reconsidering thanks to all the advice.  Good job I asked because I had my heart set on one. So what are the alternatives for a small rwd coupe then?
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 May 2015, 10:43:22
Mx5 with a hard top, BMW Z3 early ones are cheap enough or an early Honda s2000 :-\
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 11 May 2015, 11:14:01
Mx5 with a hard top, BMW Z3 early ones are cheap enough or an early Honda s2000 :-\

Ideal......for girlies.....and hairdressers.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 11 May 2015, 11:20:44
They're great cars if you're willing to live with the risk of compression problems and remember never to flood the thing.. throw on a set of slight lowering springs and the handling is like a big gokart, keep the engine on song and they're extremely rapid (in 231 guise, anyway) and they're pretty handy around a track, too.

But, you have to watch for:

Compression problems - this means trouble starting when hot, flood very easily etc
Coil pack problems - if the tops of the coils are turning white they're toast, LS1 coils are a popular upgrade for ~£250 and help with potential flooding issues
Expensive spark plugs - seriously, seriously expensive spark plugs
Regular oil changes - sump oil is injected into the combustion chamber so you need to run the right type and clean oil, alternatively fit a 2-stroke oil kit which replaces the sump injection system with a reservoir of neat, clean 2 stroke oil up where the washer bottle was (and replaces it with a tiny washer bottle)


Mine needs a rebuild, but I knew that when I bought it for ~£800. A decent car should come in about £3k or buy a known bad car like mine for peanuts and then pay another ~£1200-2000 for a rebuild (less if you can do it yourself) from somewhere like Apex Rotary.  Personally I'd do that as at least then you know it's not going to cork it in a short space of time!


Oh yeah, they're quite small inside so if you're particularly tall or have a fat arse like me you might find it a bit of a squeeze.

According to the RX8 forums some naughty owners mask the hot starting problem with an uprated starter motor. :y

I broadly agree with what Aaron says.

Great to drive even though they are bereft of decent torque. :y

13 MPG..... :'(

Handbrake in a strange position. :'(

'On rails' cornering. :y

Six speed box on the 231 version. :y

Mazda MX5 image problem. :'(
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: aaronjb on 11 May 2015, 11:50:05
Ah yes I forgot the woeful economy ;D I quite like the handbrake position, though, for me it falls quite naturally at the end of my hand unlike some cars where I feel like I'm reaching behind me..

The suicide rear doors make it very practical for carrying people & loads, too. I've fitted an entire MR2 bonnet in the back of one.. ;D


As for alternatives - MX5 as said, Z3, Z4, S2000 (probably in increasing order of running cost), but none of those are really coupes.. so it depends if you're happy to look at something without a root ;)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 11 May 2015, 12:39:53
The person would bought ours (well, Mrs Opti's really) insisted on a hot compression test which cost him the thick end of £100 at an approved Mazda dealer.

The car passed......but the results were borderline. Less than 10,000 miles on the clock at point of sale.

Some Rexers' seem to last forever........as for others. :'(
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: ronnyd on 11 May 2015, 21:37:07
Guy across the road from me has one with a knackered engine. Rebuilds start at approx £3000+ and then there is fitting (if you need it). Seems a common problem as the rotor tips burn away. You pays ya money and takes ya choice on that one. But
as said, they do look quite good.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: aaronjb on 11 May 2015, 21:58:26
£3k for a rebuild? They saw him coming!

http://www.apexrotary.com

£800 if you take them the engine and reuse the side seals (which they don't recommend, to be fair), £1200 if you take a full new seal set as the side seals are £300 on their own plus labour.  Obviously more if you take them the car (£1250 upward) but £3700 gets you a brand new Mazda unit fitted with a 3 year warranty so a £3k rebuild seems a little excessive! ;D
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 12 May 2015, 11:23:03
For all it's faults I have to say that I had great fun driving the RX8.

I suggest the OP does as Aaron did, and buy a 'limper' for a few hundred quid. :y

I mean....what's the worst that can happen? ::) ::) ;)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: aaronjb on 12 May 2015, 11:58:25
Yes, and if the OP wants to buy a 60k mile limper in VGC that already has the LS1 coil kit fitted, he can have mine for £700.. bit of a trek from Omagh, mind.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 12 May 2015, 12:08:58
Yes, and if the OP wants to buy a 60k mile limper in VGC that already has the LS1 coil kit fitted, he can have mine for £700.. bit of a trek from Omagh, mind.

No further plans, Aaron? :-X
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: aaronjb on 12 May 2015, 13:40:33
Nah, it was going to be Amy's daily and my toy but now she's moved on it's just cluttering up the driveway really.. so it can go.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 12 May 2015, 13:53:40
Nah, it was going to be Amy's daily and my toy but now she's moved on it's just cluttering up the driveway really.. so it can go.

plenty more fish and all that...... :'( :y
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 May 2015, 21:09:07
Been tempted to buy one with a goosed engine myself and then rebuild the power plant.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 12 May 2015, 21:12:53
Been tempted to buy one with a goosed engine myself and then rebuild the power plant.


I'm sure Aaron will give you a good deal. :y
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: horsecow on 13 May 2015, 11:37:26
Hmmmmmmmm, decisions decisions!  All the advice has been fairly off putting tbh guys but I'm not totally against the idea yet! I had planned to spend around 3 or 4k and move the omega on but after all the great advice I'm gonna stick with the omega and possibly keep an eye out for a much cheaper 'limper'. I do love the look of them and they sound like great fun so maybe something cheap will do and if it does mess up then it gives me something to while away the evenings? Aaronjb if you'd care to drop me a Pm and let me know what's wrong with yours pls, I might be interested. The distance isn't a problem as all the cars I'd looked at where on mainland anyway.

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated and by the sounds of it you may have saved me a few quid so that's always good!
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 13 May 2015, 11:41:16
Hmmmmmmmm, decisions decisions!  All the advice has been fairly off putting tbh guys but I'm not totally against the idea yet! I had planned to spend around 3 or 4k and move the omega on but after all the great advice I'm gonna stick with the omega and possibly keep an eye out for a much cheaper 'limper'. I do love the look of them and they sound like great fun so maybe something cheap will do and if it does mess up then it gives me something to while away the evenings? Aaronjb if you'd care to drop me a Pm and let me know what's wrong with yours pls, I might be interested. The distance isn't a problem as all the cars I'd looked at where on mainland anyway.

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated and by the sounds of it you may have saved me a few quid so that's always good!

Don't be......they are a great little car that will put a smile on your face.

Just don't pay too much for one.


A 'limper' at a low price is a good idea. :y
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 May 2015, 16:09:28
I'd be tempted to buy the dead RX8 and put a sensible engine into it, then rebuild the rotary and put it into a seven. :D
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 May 2015, 16:22:52
RX7 engine yes, way more go!

RX8 is a bit more tame in comparison.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Nick W on 13 May 2015, 16:41:25
I think the Rx8 was a case of wishful thinking; it was marketed as a mainstream coupe and so should have had a 'proper' engine - 3.0l V6 for example.

The Wankel and it's many flaws would have been less of an issue If it had been used to create a more powerful Mx5, the majority of which are mainly toys.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: 05omegav6 on 13 May 2015, 16:44:22
An over complicated solution to a problem easily solved with a Chevvy small block ::)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 May 2015, 16:47:10
RX7 engine yes, way more go!

RX8 is a bit more tame in comparison.

I haven't really compared them, to be honest, but a mate of mine had a Westfield with an RX7 engine. Nothing exotic, just a 45DCOE sticking out of the side.  ;D It was an absolute animal. Revs limited only by the size of the choke in the carb. At idle it was about as loud as mine is at full chat. ;D
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 May 2015, 16:47:41
An over complicated solution to a problem easily solved with a Chevvy small block ::)

Not if your priority is power-to-weight, hence my suggestion. ;)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: 05omegav6 on 13 May 2015, 17:48:38
 ;D I was thinking more for the RX8 than MX5/Westfield ;)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: aaronjb on 13 May 2015, 17:54:40
An over complicated solution to a problem easily solved with a Chevvy small block ::)

Not if your priority is power-to-weight, hence my suggestion. ;)

FWIW, the RX8 engine is ~95Kg without ancilliaries.
All aluminium LS1 is ~175Kg without ancilliaries.

80Kg difference is quite some difference in a ~500Kg rolling chassis, I suppose ;) closer than I thought it would be, though.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 May 2015, 18:03:51
Although the latter has close on 400bhp stock and with some work tops out at well over 700....  :y
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: driver115 on 13 May 2015, 19:21:44
10 years ago could get into an RX-8 but struggled to get my fat arse out of it.This year got into and out of an MX-5 without too much bother, so based on this objective comparison would much prefer an MX-5 :)
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: aaronjb on 13 May 2015, 19:36:45
Although the latter has close on 400bhp stock and with some work tops out at well over 700....  :y

Yep.. there's a reason the Americans have a habit of LS-swapping everything in sight.. ;D
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: chrisgixer on 16 May 2015, 02:09:22
a rebuild guide. Vaseline and a dentist drill anyone?

http://youtu.be/sjiYSDZukwQ
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2015, 11:45:31
a rebuild guide. Vaseline and a dentist drill anyone?

http://youtu.be/sjiYSDZukwQ

Very interesting, Mr Gixer.

The rebuild doesn't look too difficult. I imagine a man who knows his spanners could save a fortune on a rotary rebuild. :y
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: chrisgixer on 16 May 2015, 11:53:59
A lot of silly little springs and seals to cock up. Get one of those in backwards and it's art again time, or worse.

You can see why they don't last.
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2015, 12:12:29
A lot of silly little springs and seals to cock up. Get one of those in backwards and it's art again time, or worse.

You can see why they don't last.

That Mark DTM chappie could figure it out.

Buy Aaron's 'limper' for £350... ::) ::) ::) and away  he goes. :y
Title: Re: RX-8 or not???
Post by: chrisgixer on 16 May 2015, 12:21:25
And did you notice there where some critical points missed? In that video anyway.