Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: RileyRomius on 14 May 2015, 19:27:35

Title: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 14 May 2015, 19:27:35
Hey, my car is no longer recognising my key so the immobiliser won't deactivate. The starter motor still cranks the engine over and the central locking still works but she's not firing. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: hercules on 14 May 2015, 19:59:59
check if the chip hasn't fallen out of your key I think ive read on here before,have you just changed the batteries
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: omegod on 14 May 2015, 20:19:36
is the immobiliser light on the dash flashing while it's cranking?
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 14 May 2015, 20:35:02
Hey, I haven't got a spare battery for the key but I'll change it tomorrow and re check. And yes the light is flashing. It starts flashing as soon as the ignition is at the second stage and continues while its cranking.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: hercules on 14 May 2015, 20:41:25
I think what can happen is the chip can fall out when you change the battery,someone will be along soon with an answer  :y
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 14 May 2015, 20:43:59
Aye well does the chip require the battery to actually send the signal and deactivate the immobiliser? If so then a battery change may do it as my remote locking stopped working a few days ago. Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: Andy B on 14 May 2015, 20:46:43
Aye well does the chip require the battery to actually send the signal and deactivate the immobiliser?  .....

No. The battery is just for the remote locking.

Have you checked that the chip is actually inside the horse shoe part of the key?
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 14 May 2015, 20:49:59
I believe it's still there, is the chip the small black thing wedged in the corner?
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: Andy B on 14 May 2015, 20:50:37
I believe it's still there, is the chip the small black thing wedged in the corner?

Yes.  :y
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 14 May 2015, 20:53:07
Yes it's still in there, I assume this is bad as it means there is something more sinister going on?  :-\
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: Andy B on 14 May 2015, 21:09:15
Yes it's still in there, I assume this is bad as it means there is something more sinister going on?  :-\

I'll have to pass ..... immobiliser problems weren't a problem I ever had  :-\
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 14 May 2015, 21:13:07
Ah no problem, thank you anyway! I've had a fiddle with the key and chip and I'm going to change the battery so you never know, with a stroke of luck it may do the trick.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: TheBoy on 15 May 2015, 18:38:48
Changing batteries won't help. The chip is a self powered transponder, thus doesn't need power. Check it isn't loose.

Also, check for any assortment for crap around ignition switch, which is where the immobiliser ecu is.

Beyond that, it probably needs a chat with a tech2 to find out whats wrong.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: deviator on 15 May 2015, 22:37:23
The orientation of the chip in the key can make a difference. (If it's been removed)

You could also try removing the chip (I recommend attaching some cellotape folded back on it's self to make it bigger and prevent loss) and wave it around the ring near the key hole. You could even remove the column and try it on/next to the black box and ring. If it still doesn't recognise it, then as above.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: powerslinky on 16 May 2015, 07:41:13
I'm guessing from the above posts, that the  battery in your fob has failed. 

Renew the battery & hopefully the cental locking will work.

Do a reset  on the door locking by sitting in the car with ignition on II & press the locking button on the fob & all doors should lock & then unlock .

Remove key from ignition  . . . . then using the fob, operate locking again to lock ( you can do this from inside or outside the car)   . . .

Then operate to unlock  . . . then  put key back in ignition & it should start hopefully  :)

Had this happen on my last 2.6    but can't remember who advised this solution  . . . but it worked :y

Sounds crazy . .  . but worth a try  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2015, 09:00:42
I'm guessing from the above posts, that the  battery in your fob has failed. 

Renew the battery & hopefully the cental locking will work.

Do a reset  on the door locking by sitting in the car with ignition on II & press the locking button on the fob & all doors should lock & then unlock .

Remove key from ignition  . . . . then using the fob, operate locking again to lock ( you can do this from inside or outside the car)   . . .

Then operate to unlock  . . . then  put key back in ignition & it should start hopefully  :)

Had this happen on my last 2.6    but can't remember who advised this solution  . . . but it worked :y

Sounds crazy . .  . but worth a try  :-\ :-\
The immobiliser and central locking/alarm are two entirely independent things (on post 1995 Omegas), each with their own ECU.  The fob is 100% purely for CL/Alarm, and plays no part in the immobiliser function. Therefore a flat/missing fob battery will not cause an immobiliser issue, though will set off alarm is you have to unlock/open car with mechanical key.

Hope that clarifies :)
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: powerslinky on 16 May 2015, 11:32:53
I'm guessing from the above posts, that the  battery in your fob has failed. 

Renew the battery & hopefully the cental locking will work.

Do a reset  on the door locking by sitting in the car with ignition on II & press the locking button on the fob & all doors should lock & then unlock .

Remove key from ignition  . . . . then using the fob, operate locking again to lock ( you can do this from inside or outside the car)   . . .

Then operate to unlock  . . . then  put key back in ignition & it should start hopefully  :)

Had this happen on my last 2.6    but can't remember who advised this solution  . . . but it worked :y

Sounds crazy . .  . but worth a try  :-\ :-\
The immobiliser and central locking/alarm are two entirely independent things (on post 1995 Omegas), each with their own ECU.  The fob is 100% purely for CL/Alarm, and plays no part in the immobiliser function. Therefore a flat/missing fob battery will not cause an immobiliser issue, though will set off alarm is you have to unlock/open car with mechanical key.

Hope that clarifies :)

Just thought this may be worth a try TB as it sorted my last 2.6 MV6 when this imobiliser problem occured.

I also understand your knowledge of this sort of thing is second to none  . .   but  . . .

It also worked and got  Toledodudes car  started when I instructed him over the phone ( although that one did go on to have a major ECU breakdown in the end )

I understand that the key fob battery has nothing to do with this but ..my point was that the OP cannot do a re set of central locking when the fob will not work.

Cure for mine was : ignition on  . . . press lock on fob  to re set  . .  doors lock & then unlock (re set )  then remove key . .

lock doors again with fob with key in your hand  . .  then open doors with fob in your hand .

then car started :o :o :o

As said sounds weird  . .  but it has worked on 2 cars to my knowledge.

For the life of me I cannot remember who on Oof suggested this  :-\ :-\

Must be worth a try for the cost of a fob battery ;D ;D
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 16 May 2015, 18:26:58
Well ironically my fobs buttons don't work and the circuit board is mangled, however we unplugged the immobiliser and central locking and still not firing. Possibly an ECU fault? My friend has a computer with the software that can talk to the car but his battery just died  :-\ if it is the ECU, any suggestions?
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2015, 20:12:54
If you unplug the immobiliser ECU, it definitely won't start.  The engine ECU has to see a valid, coded signal from the immobiliser before it will fire
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 17 May 2015, 12:21:37
Ah I see! Well that explains that. Another update, we found a broken fuse which ended up being the fuel pump fuse. We replaced it but it's still got the same problem and I can't hear the fuel pump starting up. Do I have to reset the ECU or anything once I've replaced a fuse? Any ideas?
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2015, 13:27:43
Are you still getting flashing EML? If so, the engine ECU is not getting permission to start from the immobiliser.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 17 May 2015, 19:24:46
Yes the dash light is still flashing as it was. Okay, so I'm guessing that the immobiliser is keeping the fuel pump from starting and thus that's stopping the engine from firing? Any suggestions on how to fix it?
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: TheBoy on 18 May 2015, 17:14:26
Fix the immobiliser issue ;)

Either:
1) The immobiliser is not seeing the correct (programmed) transponder
or
2) Irrespective of 1), the immobiliser ECU is not passing the right code to the engine ECU
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 19 May 2015, 21:47:17
Right another update, I've checked all around the ignition barrel and that's all intact, the relays look fine and there is nothing I can see wrong with the immobiliser except excessive wear around the key switch. We couldn't get the ECU to talk to an external OBD unit so we couldn't diagnose any fault codes or anything. We even tried supplying the fuel pump directly from the battery and and starting it like that but still no luck even though she coughed with easy start.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: TheBoy on 19 May 2015, 21:52:04
Right another update, I've checked all around the ignition barrel and that's all intact, the relays look fine and there is nothing I can see wrong with the immobiliser except excessive wear around the key switch. We couldn't get the ECU to talk to an external OBD unit so we couldn't diagnose any fault codes or anything. We even tried supplying the fuel pump directly from the battery and and starting it like that but still no luck even though she coughed with easy start.
Oh dear. Don't ever, ever EVER use that shite, unless you want your engine destroyed. Even after very few squirts.


You **NEED** to get the immobiliser ECU read as you are convinced the correct transponder is in place. Dicking around with anything else will **NEVER** get it running. End of. Simples.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 20 May 2015, 12:11:50
Haha okay fair enough  ;) I'm going to drag it to a Vauxhall garage at some point and see if they can make some sense out of it.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: TheBoy on 20 May 2015, 18:04:22
If you posted you location, there may be a local member willing to cast an eye over it first ;)
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: powerslinky on 20 May 2015, 22:04:32
Haha okay fair enough  ;) I'm going to drag it to a Vauxhall garage at some point and see if they can make some sense out of it.

Be sitting down when they give you the estimate/quote  :o :o :o  and that will be without a definate fix IMO  ::) ::) ::)

As TB says , post up your location & an oof member may be able to help or at least advise first off  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: flyer 0712 on 20 May 2015, 22:36:53
i had the same trouble light on dash flashing when trying to start and a member said check the key for the chip...and sure enough when the battery was changed chip was lost but had a spare key and all was ok.............but you say yours is in there and ok......you also say that you have checked with a code reader,was it a proper code reader or a cheapie one off the net....the reason I ask is the cheapie one I used would not read mine at all whereas the proper reader did the job ok.. :y
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: deviator on 20 May 2015, 23:20:33
Haha okay fair enough  ;) I'm going to drag it to a Vauxhall garage at some point and see if they can make some sense out of it.

Sign up for 25% off straight away (http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/owners_services/parts_servicing/current-offers/service-club.html) ;) I'd advise you to get the quote first, then mention the discount. The details are emails over so you can print and off you go.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 23 May 2015, 12:40:07
If you posted you location, there may be a local member willing to cast an eye over it first ;)
I live down in plymouth  :)
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: RileyRomius on 23 May 2015, 12:41:27
i had the same trouble light on dash flashing when trying to start and a member said check the key for the chip...and sure enough when the battery was changed chip was lost but had a spare key and all was ok.............but you say yours is in there and ok......you also say that you have checked with a code reader,was it a proper code reader or a cheapie one off the net....the reason I ask is the cheapie one I used would not read mine at all whereas the proper reader did the job ok.. :y
Ah I see! Yeah it was a cheapie one off the net  ;) what was the problem you had in the end and how did you fix it if you don't mind me asking?
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: zirk on 23 May 2015, 13:18:23
I'm guessing from the above posts, that the  battery in your fob has failed. 

Renew the battery & hopefully the cental locking will work.

Do a reset  on the door locking by sitting in the car with ignition on II & press the locking button on the fob & all doors should lock & then unlock .

Remove key from ignition  . . . . then using the fob, operate locking again to lock ( you can do this from inside or outside the car)   . . .

Then operate to unlock  . . . then  put key back in ignition & it should start hopefully  :)

Had this happen on my last 2.6    but can't remember who advised this solution  . . . but it worked :y

Sounds crazy . .  . but worth a try  :-\ :-\
The immobiliser and central locking/alarm are two entirely independent things (on post 1995 Omegas), each with their own ECU.  The fob is 100% purely for CL/Alarm, and plays no part in the immobiliser function. Therefore a flat/missing fob battery will not cause an immobiliser issue, though will set off alarm is you have to unlock/open car with mechanical key.

Hope that clarifies :)

Just thought this may be worth a try TB as it sorted my last 2.6 MV6 when this imobiliser problem occured.

I also understand your knowledge of this sort of thing is second to none  . .   but  . . .

It also worked and got  Toledodudes car  started when I instructed him over the phone ( although that one did go on to have a major ECU breakdown in the end )

I understand that the key fob battery has nothing to do with this but ..my point was that the OP cannot do a re set of central locking when the fob will not work.

Cure for mine was : ignition on  . . . press lock on fob  to re set  . .  doors lock & then unlock (re set )  then remove key . .

lock doors again with fob with key in your hand  . .  then open doors with fob in your hand .

then car started :o :o :o

As said sounds weird  . .  but it has worked on 2 cars to my knowledge.

For the life of me I cannot remember who on Oof suggested this  :-\ :-\

Must be worth a try for the cost of a fob battery ;D ;D
Think it might have been me Al, suggested it a couple of times and its helped a few people out including one of mine and Alba's non starter.

As TB says, there's no direct connection between the Remote Fob and the Immobilizer, However, the Reset procedure (Key out, Lock Up and Unlock) sometimes works with an intermittent immobiliser issue. The reason being is once the immobiliser has thrown a fault ie, flashing light / no start, then the car will not start again, even if the immobiliser issue has been fixed or has returned to its normal state, without the system being reset. Key out, open / shut door, lockup, unlock, then try again.     
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: powerslinky on 23 May 2015, 17:25:08
yes Chris , i think it was you  :y

Certainly worked on 2 cars with this problem  to my knowledge  :y

Think that TB  thought I was a loony suggesting it  :y :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: TheBoy on 23 May 2015, 18:06:55
yes Chris , i think it was you  :y

Certainly worked on 2 cars with this problem  to my knowledge  :y

Think that TB  thought I was a loony suggesting it  :y :y :y :y :y
You're bigger than me, so you're never a loony ;D

I am perplexed with your (and Zirk's) luck with this, as the immobiliser will immediately reset on next attempt of turning ign on.
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: zirk on 25 May 2015, 13:36:03
yes Chris , i think it was you  :y

Certainly worked on 2 cars with this problem  to my knowledge  :y

Think that TB  thought I was a loony suggesting it  :y :y :y :y :y
You're bigger than me, so you're never a loony ;D

I am perplexed with your (and Zirk's) luck with this, as the immobiliser will immediately reset on next attempt of turning ign on.
Thats the problem though TB it doesn't always seem to reset, well at least on the ones Ive checked (all post 2001 ODB2 ones by the way).

Not suggesting its a cure, but certainly worth a try, as that situation can through a Red Herring into the equation once the system has been triggered as a no start, and as said has certainly helped a few members out.

I found this out by accident, when I came across a couple of intermittent non starters, think I may have had more than one car keys on the same bunch which could have confused the Induction Loop Aerial. Then having spread the keys apart, then found you had to do a manual lockup / unlock reset for it to start again. I also come across this situation when only using the one key, ie a lazy or intermittent transponder issue.

Try it, next time you get bored, remove one of the transponders from a good set of paired keys, keeping the removed transponder and good key away from the Ing Barrel, so with the now faulty key, start the car, wont start obviously, then without doing anything, try the good key, my money is on it still wont start with the good key without doing the reset. Key out, open / shut door, lockup, unlock, then try again. 
Title: Re: Immobiliser problem
Post by: TheBoy on 25 May 2015, 13:46:54
Not suggesting its a cure, but certainly worth a try, as that situation can through a Red Herring into the equation once the system has been triggered as a no start, and as said has certainly helped a few members out.
As a cost-free, quick and easy procedure, certainly no harm in trying :y