Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: relluf on 14 May 2015, 20:29:32
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I have found a 2.2cd for sale locally to me which might suit as a second car at the moment,
sounds ok its silver obviously! Seller says he has cert for lpg systm has owned for ten years ,I am ok with checking car itself over but know sweet FA about lpg !
So what am I looking for?
All input appreciated.
Cheers
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Budget for a new tank as they're only certified for ten years from date of manufacture...
What system is it, ie Stag/Prins/BRC?
Worst case you might need a new tank, new plumbing, new injectors and a new vapouriser...
In all possibly £300 or so, but pretty much all diyable. You will need a new tank, even if the rest of tge system is sound... Allow for this when you haggle, but depending on size/shape new tanks needn't be that expensive.
Should switch to gas when warmed up, and check for misfires/hesitancy on gas as lpg is much more sensitive to ignition issues...
Otherwise all the usual Omega rules apply :y
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Budget for a new tank as they're only certified for ten years from date of manufacture...
What system is it, ie Stag/Prins/BRC?
Worst case you might need a new tank, new plumbing, new injectors and a new vapouriser...
In all possibly £300 or so, but pretty much all diyable. You will need a new tank, even if the rest of tge system is sound... Allow for this when you haggle, but depending on size/shape new tanks needn't be that expensive.
Should switch to gas when warmed up, and check for misfires/hesitancy on gas as lpg is much more sensitive to ignition issues...
Otherwise all the usual Omega rules apply :y
Cheers Al
Thats the stuff I need to know , dont know which system yet but tanks behind seats and cars only done less than 60k!
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I may be wrong here, but is it not the case that, you just cannot GET new certification on a tank over ten years old.. if the tank in an existing setup is over ten years old, but the system was already certified before the tanks 10th birthday... it remains certified indefinitely beyond ten years, providing the setup is kept original?
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I may be wrong here, but is it not the case that, you just cannot GET new certification on a tank over ten years old.. if the tank in an existing setup is over ten years old, but the system was already certified before the tanks 10th birthday... it remains certified indefinitely beyond ten years, providing the setup is kept original?
So do I read that as IF the system has been certified recently it may be ok for the foreseeable future?
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I may be wrong here, but is it not the case that, you just cannot GET new certification on a tank over ten years old.. if the tank in an existing setup is over ten years old, but the system was already certified before the tanks 10th birthday... it remains certified indefinitely beyond ten years, providing the setup is kept original?
So do I read that as IF the system has been certified recently it may be ok for the foreseeable future?
Double check it. I think for the purposes of legality, yes. But I must stress you need to confirm it, I'm only 90% or so sure.
The point remains however, like an MOT, certification does not always mean it's safe after the inspection... so even if it remains legal over the ten year period... I would recommend a thorough looking over, and leak test, to ensure all is still well :y
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I may be wrong here, but is it not the case that, you just cannot GET new certification on a tank over ten years old.. if the tank in an existing setup is over ten years old, but the system was already certified before the tanks 10th birthday... it remains certified indefinitely beyond ten years, providing the setup is kept original?
So do I read that as IF the system has been certified recently it may be ok for the foreseeable future?
Double check it. I think for the purposes of legality, yes. But I must stress you need to confirm it, I'm only 90% or so sure.
The point remains however, like an MOT, certification does not always mean it's safe after the inspection... so even if it remains legal over the ten year period... I would recommend a thorough looking over, and leak test, to ensure all is still well :y
:y Thanks ,point taken
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It's Australian, but you get the point...
http://www.raa.com.au/motoring-and-road-safety/car-advice/converting-your-car-to-lpg
Getting the tank removed, inspected, re certified and refitted means it is probably significantly cheaper simply buy a new tank etc... :y
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MOT Man is not interested in the LPG side of things unless you present the car to be tested on LPG rather than running on petrol.
Legally the LPG Cert is not a legal requirement, unless things have changed, and may or may not be asked for by the Insurance Co. Of course your safety of the LPG System needs to to come into to play at some point.
As for buying LPG cars etc, as Al says check the car runs and switches over to gas when warmed up, in the real world if its working as it should, you shoudn"t realy notice any difference between petrol and gas on a drive.
Ask the seller not to start tbe car prior to your inspection, ie a cold start, He should be happy to do this if the cad runs without issues.
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Thanks for all your input chaps!!!
I am off to have a look at it after work today ,if it is still available that is.
Will let you know how we go on.
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I`ve had a PRINS system in a 2.6 auto since 2004, and it has been a very reliable system which has not let me down. From what I understand, tank guarenteed for 10 years, other parts including vaporiser coming to the end of their useful life and so expect to replace them as and when necessary.Look under the vehicle along pipe runs for wear points/results of rusty clips etc.Yes, if the system is functioning normally, then from cold it should switch over to lpg automatically within 5 minutes of startup
Bills/receipts as proof of lpg specific service/maintenance in addition to usual proof of regular service/repairs :)
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Well I bought it, a 2000my 2.2cd saloon with lpg in some silver or other!
Body work not to bad usual blister over nsr arch
tidy interior in cloth,bit grubby but no issues.
Starts and runs very well,feels very tight compared to my load lugger estate
70l tank in the boot(stako) switches over and runs fine regulater (Landi renzo) whoever they are, system fitted in 2004, got certificate to show,serviced last in 2010 (lpg) no idea when car was last done, but have all mot going back to 1999 when it was at 36k it has now only done 52k :D I don't really know if that's a good thing tho!!!
all for the princely sum of £400 and that with an april 2016 MOT.
Wish me luck
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At that price you could afford to replace the lpg system complete, do all the usual Omega bits plus belt/Wp/etc and hopefully get several years easy cheap motoring :y
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Check the reg on the uklpg web site. See if it's cetified. Although the web site replaces the old certificate system.
Check it revs out and switches over to gas ok. Look, under the bonnet. If it looks tidy and sensibly installed, doesn't smell of gas, amd has a lead to access the software if it needs a tweak then no worries.
Prins and brc are very tight with their leads and software access though.
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Check the reg on the uklpg web site. See if it's cetified. Although the web site replaces the old certificate system.
Check it revs out and switches over to gas ok. Look, under the bonnet. If it looks tidy and sensibly installed, doesn't smell of gas, amd has a lead to access the software if it needs a tweak then no worries.
Prins and brc are very tight with their leads and software access though.
Yes just been and done that and it is on the system,The whole install looks good to be honest,although I don't really understand it ;D
How do I know if its switching properly?
the led switch is located just above handbrake(very neat) but you cannot see it while driving!
can someone please talk me thru in laymens terms the procedure for starting switching etc ie start in petrol then manually switch to gas or leave in lpg and it sorts itself out and switch to petrol when it runs out?
what kind of range should I be looking at for a 70l tank in a 2.2?
Sorry for appearing a bit thick!
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Range depends how it's driven but 250 to 280 miles should be achievable if driven sensibly. 300 if stuck in a 50limit on the motorway all the way from the m4 to Watford and beyond for instance.
It should start normally on petrol. Check no dash lights on obviously.
Then as the car warms up, before switch over and if the system is on there would normally be a flashing led on the switch to indicate the system is active and waiting the correct parameters to switch over. This depends on time delay and engine temp settings entered in the software. This could be any time between instantly, if the car is up to temp. Or a few miles before it's warm enough. Odinarily above 60c at least Or it can run a bit lumpy or stall. So you really want to test drive it cold.
...when it switches over to gas, while driving, there may be an audible click from the rear as the solenoid clicks on on the tank, and there may be a momentary slight stumble in rpm at tick over. It shouldn't, but nothing to worry about too much. Any more than that and it's likely too cold on engine temp. And needs a tweak to raise the engine temp switch over, this might be more pronounced in colder ambient temp, such as winter. Switch over at speed should be completely seemless, unless at wide open throttle where you may feel a very slight reduction in power, this is not unusual.
Anyway, once on gas it should drive normally and the led stay on constanly, this confirms you are running on gas. Any stuttering or bogging, or lag in auto gear changes might indicate a tweak is needed. It may feel down on power by 10% or so, gas is less powerful than petrol but really shouldn't be overly noticeable to the driver.
While the system is on, the LPG fuel level is indicated by one red and usually four green or LEDs on the switch if it's full. These can be a bit randomly set as to the values entered in relation to the actual fuel level so don't expect it to be perfectly incrementally accurate. They aren't very accurate anyway. Setting the trip each fill up is a much better way of checking how many miles are left in the tank.
If it runs out of gas, it should instantly switch back to petrol and a bleeper sound, so there may be a click from the rear as the solenoid clicks off. And the led should flash again warning your on petrol. You can then press the switch to turn the LPG system off, and hence the bleeping and flashing to confirm you are now on petrol.
Depending how it's set, it might switch back to petrol at high rpm. Say at 5k. This might be to gain any performance by switching back to petrol, or, it may be to hide an issue with the set up if the installer couldn't set it up correctly at wot or high rpm, which is a more likely reason on the four pot as they are a bit asthmatic anyway.
All of this should be seamless though, it shouldn't miss or lag on changes or feel lumpy or grumpy at any point. Although lag on charges can be tricky to tune out on the cheaper kits. Having said that my first LPG kit lagged a bit at high rpm, so if you find that acceptable to drive as is, dont let the lag alone put you off the purchase.
In short, you shouldn't be able to tell its changing on to gas or what it's doing, other than via the LPG switch led indicators of course. Hence they really should be visible while driving IMO.
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Range depends how it's driven but 250 to 280 miles should be achievable if driven sensibly. 300 if stuck in a 50limit on the motorway all the way from the m4 to Watford and beyond for instance.
It should start normally on petrol. Check no dash lights on obviously.
Then as the car warms up, before switch over and if the system is on there would normally be a flashing led on the switch to indicate the system is active and waiting the correct parameters to switch over. This depends on time delay and engine temp settings entered in the software. This could be any time between instantly, if the car is up to temp. Or a few miles before it's warm enough. Odinarily above 60c at least Or it can run a bit lumpy or stall. So you really want to test drive it cold.
...when it switches over to gas, while driving, there may be an audible click from the rear as the solenoid clicks on on the tank, and there may be a momentary slight stumble in rpm at tick over. It shouldn't, but nothing to worry about too much. Any more than that and it's likely too cold on engine temp. And needs a tweak to raise the engine temp switch over, this might be more pronounced in colder ambient temp, such as winter. Switch over at speed should be completely seemless, unless at wide open throttle where you may feel a very slight reduction in power, this is not unusual.
Anyway, once on gas it should drive normally and the led stay on constanly, this confirms you are running on gas. Any stuttering or bogging, or lag in auto gear changes might indicate a tweak is needed. It may feel down on power by 10% or so, gas is less powerful than petrol but really shouldn't be overly noticeable to the driver.
While the system is on, the LPG fuel level is indicated by one red and usually four green or LEDs on the switch if it's full. These can be a bit randomly set as to the values entered in relation to the actual fuel level so don't expect it to be perfectly incrementally accurate. They aren't very accurate anyway. Setting the trip each fill up is a much better way of checking how many miles are left in the tank.
If it runs out of gas, it should instantly switch back to petrol and a bleeper sound, so there may be a click from the rear as the solenoid clicks off. And the led should flash again warning your on petrol. You can then press the switch to turn the LPG system off, and hence the bleeping and flashing to confirm you are now on petrol.
Depending how it's set, it might switch back to petrol at high rpm. Say at 5k. This might be to gain any performance by switching back to petrol, or, it may be to hide an issue with the set up if the installer couldn't set it up correctly at wot or high rpm, which is a more likely reason on the four pot as they are a bit asthmatic anyway.
All of this should be seamless though, it shouldn't miss or lag on changes or feel lumpy or grumpy at any point. Although lag on charges can be tricky to tune out on the cheaper kits. Having said that my first LPG kit lagged a bit at high rpm, so if you find that acceptable to drive as is, dont let the lag alone put you off the purchase.
In short, you shouldn't be able to tell its changing on to gas or what it's doing, other than via the LPG switch led indicators of course. Hence they really should be visible while driving IMO.
Cheers Chris
Brilliant just what I needed :y
Re visible switch and LED, that was what was niggling me because I cannot see it while driving only when stopped and safe.
All green lights are on but will try to top it up tomorrow see how much i get in and go from there.
Thanks again.
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As Chris says, use your trip counter to gauge how much gas you have left. You'll soon get the hang of it. :y
I usually get 300 miles from my 2.5 with an 80 litre tank, but the most I've got is 360 and the least was 250. ::) :)
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I get around 210 miles to 44 litres of lpg in my 2.2 frontera :y
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Thing is, where mine is next to the traffic master switch, the wiper stalk is in the way anyway. Although it only takes a slight tilt of the head to check it.
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The gauge on mine has never worked! :o ;D
Just the bottom light works. Red for LPG, bright orange for petrol/standby for LPG and dull orange petrol only. :y
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I managed to get some gas into her today put in 54L into the 70l tank and zeroed the trip so we shall see how it goes!!
All seems ok ,I managed to have a proper look round it today and am fairly happy.
Thanks for everyone's help, input and guidance, much appreciated. :y