Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Terbs on 16 May 2015, 21:49:57
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:(
Hi all.....does anyone know about caravan electrics.
I have a twin axle Elddis Crusader Superstorm and tonight when we got back, it stank of rotten eggs inside. Remembering this happened with the previous battery, I opened the battery cover and thats where the smell was coming from. The battery was hot...not boiling hot but hot. Should it be like that.
Thing is......although I have taken the battery out, all the 12v stuff works. I disconected the mains, and still the 12v works.
My van is fitted with a system called Caralevel, which means my caravan legs work electrically and self level with a computer.
Surely there must be a power supply somewhere else besides the leisure battery. Why are my 12v lights, pump, etc still working.
And what makes a battery stink like rotten eggs. I have stacks of paperwork here, but can't find any reference to a second battery !!!!!
I hope some of you avid tin tenters can solve this for me.
And for Taxi Drivers reference, No, I have not been using it to sell Pasties !!!!!!! ;D
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Hot battery dosn't sound good Tony and glad to hear you've taken it out (side?) :y
Other than that I can't help. :-[
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Rotten eggs usually means it's cooking, check the charging system output.
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Rotten eggs usually means it's cooking, check the charging system output.
How does one go about that :(
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Rotten eggs usually means it's cooking, check the charging system output.
How does one go about that :(
Put a meter across the terminals with the engine running. That is, presuming that's how they are charged on these contraptions. ;D
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Not being funny, Steve....but my caravan does not have an engine. It never gets towed, its kept in storage, and pulled out by Tractor when I want to use it
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I had a rotten egg battery on one of my cars. The alternator was putting out about 16-17 volts. I sussed it after all my bulbs blew. :o
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Not being funny, Steve....but my caravan does not have an engine. It never gets towed, its kept in storage, and pulled out by Tractor when I want to use it
Then I am talking bollix, I presumed it was charged by an alternator. Sorry. :(
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No probs :y
I am in the belief that when you connect the mains on site, that works a battery charger that charges the leisure battery.
Don't understand, why, with the battery sitting on the grass, and the mains cable disconnected, that all the 12v stuff is still working. Where is that power coming from. :-\
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No probs :y
I am in the belief that when you connect the mains on site, that works a battery charger that charges the leisure battery.
Don't understand, why, with the battery sitting on the grass, and the mains cable disconnected, that all the 12v stuff is still working. Where is that power coming from. :-\
Hercules was on here earlier, he's the van expert.
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No probs :y
I am in the belief that when you connect the mains on site, that works a battery charger that charges the leisure battery.
Don't understand, why, with the battery sitting on the grass, and the mains cable disconnected, that all the 12v stuff is still working. Where is that power coming from. :-\
There has to be another battery somewhere :-\
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http://gen.ladybaileycaravans.co.uk/brochures/Beginners-Guide-To-Electrics.pdf :-\
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Ha ha ha ha ....thats a co-incidence, Steve...LadyBailey is about 15minutes drive from here...Its where I would be going for a new battery.....what a coincidence. :y
I have just found a big box in the wardrobe, can't see how it comes off. But when I squeezed my hand in the back, there are wires. On the other side of the panel, are the water pump, heating gas and electric switches, water tank level switch the alarm thingy and 240 volt switches. I guess there must be something in there ???
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Still want to know why the battery would cook !!!!! And how to cure it :y
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No probs :y
I am in the belief that when you connect the mains on site, that works a battery charger that charges the leisure battery.
Don't understand, why, with the battery sitting on the grass, and the mains cable disconnected, that all the 12v stuff is still working. Where is that power coming from. :-\
There has to be another battery somewhere :-\
Assuming a second battery to work the legs, but I would have thought that any battery would be easily accessible......... :-\ :-\
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Still want to know why the battery would cook !!!!! And how to cure it :y
Sounds like it has shorted or overcharged, I think you will have to replace it.......... :y
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Just found a paragraph from STMO's link....interesting...
'The inbuilt charger also has to be capable of
running all the 12 volt systems even if there isn’t a
leisure battery connected'
So...it seems this must store power...or.....its storing elsewhere. And as you say, Mike...most batteries are accessable :-\
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Still want to know why the battery would cook !!!!! And how to cure it :y
Sounds like it has shorted or overcharged, I think you will have to replace it.......... :y
Over charging would boil it hence the rotting egg smell,you need to check the charger output,should be around 13.5-14 volts,and there must be as second battery somewhere if its all working with battery and mains off.
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how olds the van cos they had same charger for years then changed it then changed it again iirc,if you look under the n/s seat cushion is there a silver box screwed onto the back of the battery box ifso that is the charger and should be giving out from 13.6 to 13.9 they call it automatic but it isn't really all that happens when the battery is charged is it drops the volts going in but if the battery is faulty it just keeps pumping a charge in and cooks the battery boils it dry,the charger does work as a transformer but and will power the van without a battery but for how long it burns them out and in my experience this type of charger usually just packs in rather than over voltage to destroy a battery,its rare I come across these self levelling kits on vans but the one or two ive seen have been powered from the main van battery but if your van is working with batt off and mains off then there has to be a secondary battery and if say that one is faulty that could bring down the main battery by tricking charger into staying on giving out full charge(I have also known the caravan to carry on working running from the alarm battery when everything has been disconnected that's assuming you have the autowatch 650 alarm)in my experience never leave a caravan plugged in for long periods unless being used cos the charger comes into play as soon as mains is introduced to the van and once a month or twice plugged infor 24 hours is enough to keep a batt in good shape and over winter take the batt out and store it off the floor
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And breathe... ::)
Split charge system should have some sort of regulator between shore/site power and the battery :-\
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Most modern high spec vans have a tracker type system hidden in their construction, will function if no mains or 12v battery removed ( bit like power sounder with hidden supply), might be this that is powering the 12v, defo a problem with the charger if its cooked 2 batteries, should have been picked up at the last service, or repaired under warranty if applicable...
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trackers are the size of mobile phones and some are stand alone units not connected to the vans 12v and some even communicate with the supplier ie host and tell them the condition of battery so to inform the customer
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My van is a 2004 vintage. Not sure of the make of alarm. I just put the key in the 'leg' keyhole, and I heard the computer click, which it normally does.
There seems to be (at this moment in time) nothing different with the van. The mains are reconnected and all systems are 'go'.
Will pull it apart later. Obviously, I will have to get a new battery, and we use the van a lot, about 4/5 months of the year. Are you saying, when we get here, charge for 24 hours then disconnect the charger. That would need careful checking, as there seems to be three or four wires to each connector (live and earth). I have a meter here, I'll rip the seats out, and possibly take some pictures :y
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no its when in storage ie winter months when people park the van up on the drive and plug it in and it sits there for 6 months and I have known seasonal pitches where they allow you to leave power connected and the person comes most weekends to use the van and rest of time its sat there unused it doesn't do the batts any good,if your there using the van it does no harm to have the charger running and its doing what its designed for.you do need to check the output which should read about 13.8.modern chargers are dual and give out 14.2v and have cooling fans cos they can put 8 amps out of the transformer side,your charger im pretty sure is a powerpart p116 and is located on the back of battery box inside van and very easy to change if its at fault(the silver box is charger and you will also have a cream box with your fuses in to the right) is it a proper leisure battery your using
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the black wire to charger is 230v the other 2 wires should go to a plug which you can disconnect the system from the charger to get the out put there
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Thanks for that info, mate. Yes, its definately a proper leisure battery. 75 AH. I have just checked it and its cold now. But as it smelled like rotten eggs, does that mean it is knackered anyway. I, pop some piccy's up, just as soon as I can get swmbo to shift her butt ;D :y
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(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/Terbert/WP_20150517_13_03_17_Pro_zpsqdlg40rd.jpg) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Terbert/media/WP_20150517_13_03_17_Pro_zpsqdlg40rd.jpg.html)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/Terbert/WP_20150517_13_02_00_Pro_zps3fs9d6ee.jpg) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Terbert/media/WP_20150517_13_02_00_Pro_zps3fs9d6ee.jpg.html)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/Terbert/WP_20150517_13_01_46_Pro_zpsfnxft6lh.jpg) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Terbert/media/WP_20150517_13_01_46_Pro_zpsfnxft6lh.jpg.html)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/Terbert/WP_20150517_13_01_20_Pro_zpsnaqmzfvh.jpg) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Terbert/media/WP_20150517_13_01_20_Pro_zpsnaqmzfvh.jpg.html)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/Terbert/WP_20150517_12_59_27_Pro_zpsklevhz9y.jpg) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Terbert/media/WP_20150517_12_59_27_Pro_zpsklevhz9y.jpg.html)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/Terbert/WP_20150517_12_59_11_Pro_zpsk7rvyb00.jpg) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Terbert/media/WP_20150517_12_59_11_Pro_zpsk7rvyb00.jpg.html)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/Terbert/WP_20150517_12_59_04_Pro_zpsm1xvoa4i.jpg) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Terbert/media/WP_20150517_12_59_04_Pro_zpsm1xvoa4i.jpg.html)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/Terbert/WP_20150517_12_55_08_Pro_zpszzun75xs.jpg) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Terbert/media/WP_20150517_12_55_08_Pro_zpszzun75xs.jpg.html)
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So....and excuse my nievity...if I put my meter on the terminals (that are not connected to the battery now) in the battery compartment, and as the mains are now connected, I should get a readout of 13 amps or so, as if it was charging the battery :y
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you need volts mate :y
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yes you should get the voltage output at the batt terminals but you are better off going to the plug that comes off the charger so your getting the exact reading and not a lower reading caused from any of the appliances pulling from it,there you have a powertouch model 4 twin axle single unit mover and an original phantom tracker which is the little black box on the floor to the right which may I say is fit totally wrong it should be hidden so it carries on transmitting location if stolen so where that is fit all you have to do is rip it off the floor and throw it out the window(when I fit them I don't even tell the customer where it is unless they push for it)they only pull milliamps to keep internal batt charged but that is an old unit and do you still have it subscribed
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looking at the cream box I would say that's your alarm and its the autowatch 650 with back up battery inside(the lid is hinged and held closed by 2 screws one either side)I have known after disconnecting everything the lights still on in the van and it was from that back up battery which could explain why everything still worked although it shouldn't have for long cos its a low amp battery
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Thanks mate....
I have checked the charger with two multi meters, one digital, and one non digital, and my reading is 13.59 volts :y
All 12v stuff still working when called for, lights, pump.....everything else is switched to 240 volts. I am checking now through paperwork to see if battery is recommended size. 75 AH fitted, but some people are saying that seems a bit small for my van.
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13.59 on a 12 v battery is fine....just a duff battery then?
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75ah should be fine for standard use ie lights/ pump/blown air fan for your heating and such esp when your on mains hook up,you only need bigger batteries when your gonna be using the mover and rallying ie no mains hook up which neither of them your doing so it just looks like duff battery.out of interest how old is the battery and was it a cheapy and looking at the caps on top which look like you can top up the cells did you ever check it cos no one ever does :)
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Ah...Herc....you may have me there. :-[ The battery was around £70 but swmbo can't find the receipt. I am guessing around 18 months old.
Also, I was not aware that modern batteries could be refilled ??? The inspection hole is black, no green in sight.
You are a very clever fella :y I have been trawling through the paperwork and the systems you name are correct. You have my awe. :D
As I said earlier, I have never used the mover. The van is stored here, and is pulled in and out of the compound by tractor and sited. All we do is is plug in the mains, drop the legs, turn on the gas, and get on with life :y
So by your advice, tomorrow, I shall get another battery 75 AH, check the charger rate again and hope for the best. I have learnt a lot from your replies, and thank you very much
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:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Just been out and looked at the battery....on the back is a note says..Top up electrolyte after every 6 months.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaarghhhh ::) ::) ::)
Based on that fact....do you think its too late to fill it now, being as it stunk. :(
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I would start fresh with a new battery(s) and a couple of bottles of distilled water :y
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yeh the fact its stunk and its dry and its been hot its buggered ;D ignore and I got this from a sales rep the green indicator theyre a gimmick haha and yes some batteries still need checking,£70 sounds pricey for that size battery but there was a spell a few years back when the prices rose and then came back down again at least its a simple fix and with a new battery your safe again that's the main thing :y
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Even GM batteries can be topped up :y
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Ah...Herc....you may have me there. :-[ The battery was around £70 but swmbo can't find the receipt. I am guessing around 18 months old.
Also, I was not aware that modern batteries could be refilled ??? The inspection hole is black, no green in sight.
You are a very clever fella :y I have been trawling through the paperwork and the systems you name are correct. You have my awe. :D
As I said earlier, I have never used the mover. The van is stored here, and is pulled in and out of the compound by tractor and sited. All we do is is plug in the mains, drop the legs, turn on the gas, and get on with life :y
So by your advice, tomorrow, I shall get another battery 75 AH, check the charger rate again and hope for the best. I have learnt a lot from your replies, and thank you very much
can I call this my good deed for the day and get myself a beer ;D
if any advice I have given has helped then that is thanks enough :)
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You can indeed have a beer....in fact, I shall have one with you. :y
Not only have you helped me, but the site manager here has battery problems, and I told him your info......we checked..and his battery is a fill up jobby too.
So you may have two beers :y
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Horses for courses...and Daz knows his vans ;)
He's a big, ugly bastard though. ;D
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Terbert -
You may want to try Halfords for a leisure battery, especially if you have a Trade card for them....About 4/5 years ago I picked up a 110AH leisure battery for £60....the price without trade card was £110 :y
Hercules -
Are the battery chargers in caravans just basic chargers then?
I would have thought they would have been 'ctec' or 'intelligent chargers' that monitor the battery and switch off charging once the battery is fully charged :-\
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Surely that would make no odds if the battery was essentially dry...
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Surely that would make no odds if the battery was essentially dry...
terbert said the battery was only 18 months old....it must have been on charge for considerable lengths of time and quite a high current going through it for the electrolyte to evaporate.
Rule of thumb for leisure batteries is charge current no more than 10% of the rating of the battery....so in terberts case no more than 7.5amp charge current.
My 110AH leisure battery is about 4/5 years old and I use a cheap ctec charger on it....when the battery is pretty flat the charger puts about 5amps through the battery and as the voltage increases its steps down the charge current until its happy the battery is fully charged then turns off. It can take it 2/3 days to fully charge it from a discharged state. Ive never had to top up the electrolyte ;)
The faster you charge a lead acid battery the faster the electrolyte will evaporate if its not a sealed unit...and mine isn't either ;)
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Classic example of our battery usage is.... we have been here for 14 days. we go home wednesday for 10 days, then back here for two days, then home for a week, then here for four weeks. Then home for 7 weeks, then back here for 3 weeks. I think you get the drift....this goes on through the winter, too. Back to back time would be about 4 to 5 months. So our battery gets a fair bit of use. :y
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I need a proper caravan charger/PSU for our tintent....
Im charging the leisure battery with a heavy duty battery charger that is automatic, switches off when fully charged and then goes into trickle...
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Seems as though you were lucky not to come back to a bonfire! :o ;D
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Used to top up the batteries on the boat quite regularly, but they got hammered and were only ever engine charged :-\
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Used to top up the batteries on the boat quite regularly, but they got hammered and were only ever engine charged :-\
Overcharged then ;) if they were leisure batteries.....car/truck batteries its a different story ;)
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I need a proper caravan charger/PSU for our tintent....
Im charging the leisure battery with a heavy duty battery charger that is automatic, switches off when fully charged and then goes into trickle...
You may want something like this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-CTEK-Multi-MXS-5-0-12V-Car-Battery-Smart-Charger-Conditioner-/271868284124?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4c9cccdc
Altho the one I have, I got from Lidl/Aldi when they had a special purchase price.....mine was about £15 but its not a Ctek brand :y
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I need a proper caravan charger/PSU for our tintent....
Im charging the leisure battery with a heavy duty battery charger that is automatic, switches off when fully charged and then goes into trickle...
this is what happens when the battery goes faulty or needs topping up and doesn't get checke, it still accepts a charge and so your charger stays on full amp output and never goes to that trickle state then hot smelly dry battery,the resistence in a good healthy battery can stand the trickle charge but in my experience when a battery is going to be left for a long period it should be disconnected and then charged to a timetable you can monitor(I used to say one 24 hr period a month but then a vastly experienced bloke told me id do it twice)
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Horses for courses...and Daz knows his vans ;)
He's a big, ugly bastard though. ;D
im not that big ;D :y
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Terbert -
You may want to try Halfords for a leisure battery, especially if you have a Trade card for them....About 4/5 years ago I picked up a 110AH leisure battery for £60....the price without trade card was £110 :y
Hercules -
Are the battery chargers in caravans just basic chargers then?
I would have thought they would have been 'ctec' or 'intelligent chargers' that monitor the battery and switch off charging once the battery is fully charged :-\
they are a good charger but in this case when the battery needed a top up and didn't get it as above it will have kept charging got warm and dried out more and got hot and smelly :y
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infact the charger in question is installed in a 2004 van and isn't faulty,it was installed in vans before that year and although is not used in modern caravans you can still buy that charger today :y
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This may be a silly suggestion, but I will make it anyway - what if you remove the battery altogether? If your 12 volt demands are not great and you are always on site electrics, the charger will meet those needs directly without the battery?
I did exactly that back when I had an elderly Sprite; it didn't have a battery anyway and I made a 12 volt power supply with a maybe 10 amp capability, but it was only really needed to run the water pump and minor ancilliaries as I had 240 lighting and fridge.
Ron.
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Yep, good posting ^
Why bother with batteries and their idiosyncrasies when the 'van never moves?