Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Andy A on 25 May 2015, 19:32:02

Title: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy A on 25 May 2015, 19:32:02
Engine off gearbox goes into gears smoothly with or without clutch.

Engine running and using clutch its very hard to get into any gear including reverse. When driving gears change really smoothly. When stopped and put into neutral the gearbox sometimes goes back into gear fine and other times it won't

Reversed bleed the clutch today and it made no difference.

What could be the problem?

Thanks
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy B on 25 May 2015, 19:55:11
slave cylinder  :-\

selectors worn  :-\
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: chrisgixer on 25 May 2015, 19:55:50
Checked manual gear box oil level...?
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy A on 25 May 2015, 20:09:13
slave cylinder  :-\

I pressure tested the system and it was stable at 10 psi. Would it leak if faulty?

selectors worn  :-\

Checked manual gear box oil level...?

No I haven't. I will check it tomorrow and see.

Thanks
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: terry paget on 25 May 2015, 20:12:50
Same problem on son Ben's 2.2 Bleedling  achieved nothing. Slave cylinder is concentric, isn't it? So right in the middle of the gearbox, can only be changed with gearbox out of car. I recall in a discussion thread some while ago they were claimed to be bulletproof. Thanks for g/b oil level suggestion, Chris; I will check that when I have the car in for MOT soon.
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: chrisgixer on 25 May 2015, 20:16:54
No experience with these Edwardian contraptions you understand, but I do remember an old post, by ians iirc. Haynes quotes 1.2 litres
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy A on 25 May 2015, 20:33:02
Just looked in the diy section and nothing there about changing manual gearbox oil.

Anyone know what oil is OK to use?

Thanks
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: chrisgixer on 25 May 2015, 20:38:18
:-\ ?

http://oldsite.omegaowners.com//forum/YaBB.pl?action=print;num=1189149172
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy B on 25 May 2015, 20:45:07
....

I pressure tested the system and it was stable at 10 psi. Would it leak if faulty?
 ......

Other than obvious leaks in the system, I wouldn't think that would make any difference. Does pumping the clutch pedal make any difference? It's the total movement of the concentric cylinder that makes the difference.  I doubt that gear box oil level or oil quality will make a difference to gear selection
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy A on 25 May 2015, 20:59:08
....

I pressure tested the system and it was stable at 10 psi. Would it leak if faulty?
 ......

Other than obvious leaks in the system, I wouldn't think that would make any difference. Does pumping the clutch pedal make any difference? It's the total movement of the concentric cylinder that makes the difference.  I doubt that gear box oil level or oil quality will make a difference to gear selection

Pumping the pedal makes no difference at all.

I have some Millers (5522) TRX 75W/90 Semi synthetic here. Is it OK to mix?
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy B on 25 May 2015, 21:07:10
....

Pumping the pedal makes no difference at all.
:(

I have some Millers (5522) TRX 75W/90 Semi synthetic here. Is it OK to mix?
Sorry, no idea.  :-\

The last manual gearbox oil I bought for an Astra was from Vauxhall. It wasn't expensive.
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: 05omegav6 on 25 May 2015, 22:22:20
Fluid level first, but they can be notchy when cold, especially first/reverse...

You might also find that the rubber hanger which holds the rear of the selector up in the tunnel is shot :-\

I replaced mine with an M6 bolt and a stack of washers...

Will add pic in morning, but makes the gearchange feel more robust than before :y
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy A on 26 May 2015, 10:52:36
Fluid level first, but they can be notchy when cold, especially first/reverse...

You might also find that the rubber hanger which holds the rear of the selector up in the tunnel is shot :-\

I replaced mine with an M6 bolt and a stack of washers...

Will add pic in morning, but makes the gearchange feel more robust than before :y

If the rubber hanger was gone and that in turn causes the linkage to be out of adjustment, wouldn't it still be hard putting into gear with the engine off as well as the engine running?

Is this how a bad rubber hanger effects the gear shift?

I have checked the gearbox oil and it is fine.  :y
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: 05omegav6 on 26 May 2015, 12:24:55
Fluid level first, but they can be notchy when cold, especially first/reverse...

You might also find that the rubber hanger which holds the rear of the selector up in the tunnel is shot :-\

I replaced mine with an M6 bolt and a stack of washers...

Will add pic in morning, but makes the gearchange feel more robust than before :y

If the rubber hanger was gone and that in turn causes the linkage to be out of adjustment,wouldn't it still be hard putting into gear with the engine off as well as the engine running?

Is this how a bad rubber hanger effects the gear shift?

I have checked the gearbox oil and it is fine.  :y
Not necessarily as there's a fair bit of slop in the box without any torque being put through it...
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: chrisgixer on 26 May 2015, 12:51:44
A FAIR BIT...? :o


;D
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: 05omegav6 on 26 May 2015, 12:54:30
A FAIR BIT...? :o


;D
In it's albeit limited defence, said box has done more miles than your last two Omegas put together ::)
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: 05omegav6 on 26 May 2015, 13:03:40
Before...
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20140608_173218_zpsz4yfvrqs.jpg)

After...
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20140608_173228_zpsrgzawwyr.jpg)

This gives the lever a solid foundation, as the front end of the lever mounting plate is bolted to the gearbox, the rubber one being attached to a bracket above the propshaft :y

Fair to note that NVH is slightly increased, but given the suspension bushing and tyre size/pressures I am using, this becomes kind of irrelevant  ::)
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: chrisgixer on 26 May 2015, 13:04:15
I meant in general my dear fellow ;) yours is ..... Absolutely fine.  :-X  :y
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: 05omegav6 on 26 May 2015, 13:08:30
I meant in general my dear fellow ;) yours is ..... Absolutely fine (for an Edwardian signal box).  :-X  :y
;D
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: chrisgixer on 26 May 2015, 13:16:14
I never actually said it.... For once ;D ;)
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy A on 26 May 2015, 14:06:57
Is there a diagram any where so I can see how it all connects?

My friend said he used Dexron II ATF in his Omega manual gearbox with no apparent problems. Is this safe to use?

I have 5 Liters of Fuchs TITAN ATF 3000 Multipurpose Dexron II ATF. Is this safe to do a complete oil change on my manual gearbox?


Is this the same stuff to put into a Auto gearbox?

Thanks
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: LC0112G on 26 May 2015, 14:27:21
Same problem on son Ben's 2.2 Bleedling  achieved nothing. Slave cylinder is concentric, isn't it? So right in the middle of the gearbox, can only be changed with gearbox out of car. I recall in a discussion thread some while ago they were claimed to be bulletproof. Thanks for g/b oil level suggestion, Chris; I will check that when I have the car in for MOT soon.

Hmm. My first (and so far only) manual Omega had a slave and thrust bearing fail. Yes it's concentric, and yes it's a box off job to change. And if you ever have to change one, open the box and inspect the 'new' one before you leave the dealers. I failed to do that, and when I went to fit it found a second hand faulty one in the box.

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/LC0112G/Omega%20Clutch/IMG_4242A.jpg)

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/LC0112G/Omega%20Clutch/IMG_4244A.jpg)

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/LC0112G/Omega%20Clutch/IMG_4243A.jpg)
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy A on 26 May 2015, 14:37:09
Same problem on son Ben's 2.2 Bleedling  achieved nothing. Slave cylinder is concentric, isn't it? So right in the middle of the gearbox, can only be changed with gearbox out of car. I recall in a discussion thread some while ago they were claimed to be bulletproof. Thanks for g/b oil level suggestion, Chris; I will check that when I have the car in for MOT soon.

Hmm. My first (and so far only) manual Omega had a slave and thrust bearing fail. Yes it's concentric, and yes it's a box off job to change. And if you ever have to change one, open the box and inspect the 'new' one before you leave the dealers. I failed to do that, and when I went to fit it found a second hand faulty one in the box.

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/LC0112G/Omega%20Clutch/IMG_4242A.jpg)

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/LC0112G/Omega%20Clutch/IMG_4244A.jpg)

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/LC0112G/Omega%20Clutch/IMG_4243A.jpg)

What was your symptoms when the slave failed?

What was the symptoms when the bearing was failing and then failed?

Thanks
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: LC0112G on 26 May 2015, 14:44:54

What was your symptoms when the slave failed?

What was the symptoms when the bearing was failing and then failed?

Thanks

It went 'all of a sudden' - no symptoms prior to failure that I can remember.

Once failed it was a 20 minute/10 mile drive with no clutch from home to my workshop. Cursing every doddery old fool stopping unnecessarily at give way's and roundabouts.  A bit 'graunchy' at times but the synchro survived.
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 May 2015, 14:57:13
That's a failed bearing? The slave looks fine?
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: LC0112G on 26 May 2015, 15:02:32
That's a failed bearing? The slave looks fine?

Slave is FUBAR too. Still got the old one in the shed somewhere, will try and dig it out to see what's wrong with it. From memory, the skirt is all split.
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy A on 27 May 2015, 10:53:46
Had a look at the mounting rubbers and they look fine to me for what I can see. The photos are below. What do you think?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/17968443549/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/17968384729/in/dateposted-public/

Thanks
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: LC0112G on 27 May 2015, 11:18:35
That's a failed bearing? The slave looks fine?

Slave is FUBAR too. Still got the old one in the shed somewhere, will try and dig it out to see what's wrong with it. From memory, the skirt is all split.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/LC0112G/Omega%20Clutch/IMG_1135b.jpg)
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 May 2015, 15:24:40
Had a look at the mounting rubbers and they look fine to me for what I can see. The photos are below. What do you think?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/17968443549/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/17968384729/in/dateposted-public/

Thanks
Top pick is the Gearbox/Engine rear mounting... looks fine... a new one might be firmer due to a lack of aging, but that looks intact and therefore perfectly serviceable  :y

They can degrade quite quickly if exposed to alot of oil. Like this...
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140707_145935_zpsokkfxvsj.jpg) :-[

Second pic is the thing I replaced with the bolt/washer combo... mine was unbroken, but very squishy, making the gear changing feel rather vague :D
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Mr Gav on 27 May 2015, 18:17:57
If the slave fails then you won`t be able to engage gears and your foot will go to the floor without much resistence, I had one fail on my Senator but it was gradual, I managed to get from Catterick garrison to Leeds before it went completely.
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: LC0112G on 27 May 2015, 23:20:06
If the slave fails then you won`t be able to engage gears and your foot will go to the floor without much resistence, I had one fail on my Senator but it was gradual, I managed to get from Catterick garrison to Leeds before it went completely.

You can - you just have to match engine revs to gear/road speed and it'll slot in nicely - Oh and be prepared to start the car with it in gear. Difficult to do in traffic, and traffic lights/roundabouts/T junctions are a PITA but it is do-able. Once had to drive from Boscombe Down to Yeovil (50 miles) like that due to hydraulic pipe failure.
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: 05omegav6 on 27 May 2015, 23:41:03
Reminds me of a drive from Horsham to Heathrow at 7 am with no clutch control... stupid pos Seat ::)
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Andy B on 27 May 2015, 23:47:48
I used to be able to do a clutchless changes ..... but not had a manual in a while now  :y
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 May 2015, 00:07:49
I used to be able to do a clutchless changes ..... but not had a manual in a while now  :y
The Omega responds well to clutchless shifting,  but getting the revs right with an electronic throttle takes some practice... timing has to be impeccable :D
Title: Re: Manual gearbox problem
Post by: Mr Gav on 28 May 2015, 18:22:14
If the slave fails then you won`t be able to engage gears and your foot will go to the floor without much resistence, I had one fail on my Senator but it was gradual, I managed to get from Catterick garrison to Leeds before it went completely.

You can - you just have to match engine revs to gear/road speed and it'll slot in nicely - Oh and be prepared to start the car with it in gear. Difficult to do in traffic, and traffic lights/roundabouts/T junctions are a PITA but it is do-able. Once had to drive from Boscombe Down to Yeovil (50 miles) like that due to hydraulic pipe failure.

Alright smart asre, I meant using the clutch to engage gears  ;D