Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: The Sheriff on 29 May 2015, 12:05:54
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All of our devices are connected to the router via wifi, including the PC. Would changing to fibre optic make any difference, or is the download speed limited by the connection to router?
Sky router, if that makes any difference.
Thanks.
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All I can help you is by saying that when I changed to BT Infinity, they changed the BT hub and the wall socket and added a router. My speed then went from 8mb to 40 mb (obviously because using Fibre Optic).
May be totally different to other ISP's :y
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WiFi is limited by the frequency and the 'backbone' of the device which will have a maximum throughput.
This is then shared with all devices that are connected via WiFi. For normal browsing this is fine but if you have several devices all streaming video at the same time then it could get saturated very quickly. Also it is worth bearing in mind that some devices are better at handling high levels of traffic than others.
I think that FO inside the house is overkill as the potential thoughput is far higher than a typical house modem is able to manage. It has other advantageous applications for increasing the security of data connections which again is overkill for home applications. Ethernet cable should be sufficient for those machines that will use lots of bandwidth or need a lower latency (or faster response time) such as machines that are used for online gaming. Just route the cables away from or at right angles to any power cables (or invest in some very good shielded cable)
I think that in the near future houses will start cabling ethernet as standard to those points where TVs, computers and routers are likely to be due to the fact that we will use more streaming of HD or even 4K media. I retrofitted it in mine because the oppstard developers wouldn't let me put it in during the construction phase. I know TB managed to do this with his house build.
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If you are taking about FO from your ISP then it depends on whether it is Fibre to the cabinet or to the house. I have virgin FO to the house and I am relatively happy with it although I am looking at other options to see if they might have better reliability.
I have VPN, media servers and allsorts of external data flows and sometimes VM throughput makes these unusable.
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Steve....can I hijack slightly to ask Guffer a question, although it could be relevant to you...
With FO, with BT, I am FO to cabinet. I get 40mb. They asked if I wanted to upgrade to Infinity 2 (80mb) a line check showed line only capable of 40mb. Is that because of the copper from cabinet, or is FO only capable of certain speeds.
Apologies Steve :y
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every transmission medium as it limits it is the same with designing an IP camera system you can have a super doper network inside a building (why anyone would use fibre is beyond me due to cost mainly) but once outside a building you are at the the mercy of your ISP...but in answer to Terbert it is quite possible that from cabinet onwards it is copper...but one thing to remember if you increase through put and your devices are unable to cope you will start seeing latency :y
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Thanks, folks. Matt...you confirmed what I already thought. The PC, which is not used that much, is a long way from the router and ethernet cable would be a nightmare. Everything works okay, I just saw a cheapo offer from Sky and thought I might give it a go.
Incidentally, I am currently getting my BB for free by subscribing to sky sports 5........which is free.
Some kind of contractual tie-in I should imagine.
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It really depends how good your current broadband connection is. That depends on the provider and your line.
I have a decent ISP and a relatively short ADSL2+ line. Typically get 16-18mb/s down. It really isn't worth me changing, since the nearest FTTC box from me is not much closer than the exchange! My neighbour has gone to Infinity and gets a marginally faster connection than me - when it's working, but reliability is MUCH worse with his modem regularly dropping the link.
If you're one of the poor souls who can only get a couple of megabits or worse on ADSL, or are currently on an poor ISP, then it's a different picture, and it will always be worth the move to FTTC/FTTP provided you go with an ISP who can do it justice.
As to whether the WLAN is the weakest link, as said, it depends on the flavour of wireless LAN your devices support and what throughput it's actually achieving now given the radio environment - number of signals in the area and level of interferences, etc.
Try attaching one machine with a cable for a while and see if you notice any difference. Do a speed test in this configuration to get a better picture of where you are now.
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The only 'machines' I use are iPads and the wife's work laptop, Kevin. A speed test on my iPad yields 6 down and 1 up. That sounds crap but, for what I do, is adequate.
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No need for fibre in the house, you can run 1Gb over UTP up to and beyond the length of cable runs a house requires.
Just beware Guffer, you can tap into fibre fairly easily, I would say easier to do unnoticed than cable......something we used to do occasionally in the lab. But of course the likes of Port Mirroring makes it dead easy no matter what the medium.
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Steve....can I hijack slightly to ask Guffer a question, although it could be relevant to you...
With FO, with BT, I am FO to cabinet. I get 40mb. They asked if I wanted to upgrade to Infinity 2 (80mb) a line check showed line only capable of 40mb. Is that because of the copper from cabinet, or is FO only capable of certain speeds.
Apologies Steve :y
Correct. Shitty old copper (or possibly aluminium around your area) at that, likely to have been in the ground for years.
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All of our devices are connected to the router via wifi, including the PC. Would changing to fibre optic make any difference, or is the download speed limited by the connection to router?
Sky router, if that makes any difference.
Thanks.
Most WiFi in reality will bottom out at around 20Mbps. If you are close to the exchange, on a good line, and on ADSL2, you may well be in the region of the WiFi being the slowest part. So if you are only browsing, streaming and occasional email, no point.
If your ADSL is relatively slow, or you need a good upload (frequently use cloud storage, Mrs uses VPN for work etc), there can be noticible benefits to FTTC solutions.
I have 2 FTTC lines here, both give about 62Mbps down and 18Mbps up. My Wifi is good for about 20Mbps (its claimed to be 450Mbps), although I am in a very busy Wifi area.
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Just beware Guffer, you can tap into fibre fairly easily, I would say easier to do unnoticed than cable......something we used to do occasionally in the lab. But of course the likes of Port Mirroring makes it dead easy no matter what the medium.
I know what you mean but I still feel it easier to MITM ethernet than fibre. You need to be able to use the splice and weld gear as opposed to making two ethernet plug ends. Plus the kit for fibre costs a fortune.
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Not like GCHQ, the NSA, Russia and China don't already know everything we do online anyway..
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Steve....can I hijack slightly to ask Guffer a question, although it could be relevant to you...
With FO, with BT, I am FO to cabinet. I get 40mb. They asked if I wanted to upgrade to Infinity 2 (80mb) a line check showed line only capable of 40mb. Is that because of the copper from cabinet, or is FO only capable of certain speeds.
Apologies Steve :y
As already mentioned, the limiting factors are numerous and often it is the quality of the line between the cabinet and the property. There was a period when aluminium twisted pair was used for this which is f-ing criminal in my view as it is much less conductive and more prone to noise but was much cheaper than copper at the time.
When I was in MOD housing we had such a situation and on a good day we would get 1.5 meg, often much less. This is despite being less than a mile from the exchange and the local cabinet was 20m away. When was moving out and Sky cut off my broadband 2 weeks before they should have I had to switch to 3g for a while with a WiFi dongle hanging in a window. Through that I consistently got over 5 meg....
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Just beware Guffer, you can tap into fibre fairly easily, I would say easier to do unnoticed than cable......something we used to do occasionally in the lab. But of course the likes of Port Mirroring makes it dead easy no matter what the medium.
I know what you mean but I still feel it easier to MITM ethernet than fibre. You need to be able to use the splice and weld gear as opposed to making two ethernet plug ends. Plus the kit for fibre costs a fortune.
Obviously depends were you need to tap into the fibre. Fibre sniffers/taps have the advanatage over Ethernet ones of being entirely passive, and thus difficult to detect.
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There was a period when aluminium twisted pair was used for this which is f-ing criminal in my view as it is much less conductive and more prone to noise but was much cheaper than copper at the time.
yeah, around the early 70s. Copper became harder to get, and prices rocketed, so the POT had to investigate other materials (not just due to price, but also the availability, and copper was save for areas that really needed copper).
Ali was deemed at the time to be a reasonable conductor.
The plan went tits up, as also at that time, wires were going underground, and were not ducted back then... ...making it hard to replace when the error of their ways was discovered!
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My parents telephone line is underground lead encapsulated!
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My parents telephone line is underground lead encapsulated!
I recall when I used to do a real job 25yrs ago, some jumped up prick in a suit insisting there was no lead left in the ground, even when presented with a list of areas we all knew within 2 miles of the meeting.
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If you are taking about FO from your ISP then it depends on whether it is Fibre to the cabinet or to the house. I have virgin FO to the house and I am relatively happy with it although I am looking at other options to see if they might have better reliability.
I have VPN, media servers and allsorts of external data flows and sometimes VM throughput makes these unusable.
Just be slightly pedantic, is VM not FTC with a coax link to the house.
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Just beware Guffer, you can tap into fibre fairly easily, I would say easier to do unnoticed than cable......something we used to do occasionally in the lab. But of course the likes of Port Mirroring makes it dead easy no matter what the medium.
I know what you mean but I still feel it easier to MITM ethernet than fibre. You need to be able to use the splice and weld gear as opposed to making two ethernet plug ends. Plus the kit for fibre costs a fortune.
No need to splice or fusion weld, just stripping the cladding and wrap a bare core around it....simple.
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Just beware Guffer, you can tap into fibre fairly easily, I would say easier to do unnoticed than cable......something we used to do occasionally in the lab. But of course the likes of Port Mirroring makes it dead easy no matter what the medium.
I know what you mean but I still feel it easier to MITM ethernet than fibre. You need to be able to use the splice and weld gear as opposed to making two ethernet plug ends. Plus the kit for fibre costs a fortune.
No need to splice or fusion weld, just stripping the cladding and wrap a bare core around it....simple.
I would like to see that in practice, is it efficient? get any packet drops?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_wave
Packet loss will only be a function of SNR, so if you see some you add a few more turns, dead simple.
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Everyday is a schoolday. I had seen the FO sniffers which are a ballpark £500+ and thus out of reach of many but the most determined. This is one I shall have to test, if the wife asks I'm blaming you ::)
Of course all this sniffing would be for nowt if/when encryption is used :y
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Interesting, thanks for the useful information. :y :y :y
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There was a period when aluminium twisted pair was used for this which is f-ing criminal in my view as it is much less conductive and more prone to noise but was much cheaper than copper at the time.
yeah, around the early 70s. Copper became harder to get, and prices rocketed, so the POT had to investigate other materials (not just due to price, but also the availability, and copper was save for areas that really needed copper).
Ali was deemed at the time to be a reasonable conductor.
The plan went tits up, as also at that time, wires were going underground, and were not ducted back then... ...making it hard to replace when the error of their ways was discovered!
In high vibration environments I bet they also discovered that aluminium is also much more brittle.