Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: steve6367 on 31 May 2015, 20:26:40

Title: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 31 May 2015, 20:26:40
Does 00019 point to Crank Sensor?

ECU ID= HH,90492382,0261203588,1037350104,03,



Total number of fault codes: 4

00135 - Telltale (Check Light) Voltage Low
Present

00013 - O2 Sensor 1 Open Circuit
Present

00089 - O2 Sensor 2 Open Circuit
Present

00019 - Incorrect RPM Signal
Not present
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: 05omegav6 on 31 May 2015, 20:56:11
Possibly but standard if codes were read with engine not running iirc... Or was that 31?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 31 May 2015, 21:38:10
It was indeed off, just ignition on - I will try again with it running  :y

I've checked and cleaned ICV - anything else likely to cause idle speed to fluctuate and engine to cut out at idle?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: ffcgary1 on 31 May 2015, 21:51:02
Suspect crank sensor, see my thread v6 stalling, it was ok cold but when it got hot the idle was all over the place and would then die. ::)
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: RobG on 31 May 2015, 22:07:47
Possibly but standard if codes were read with engine not running iirc... Or was that 31?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: Gaffers on 01 June 2015, 10:56:09
Also check for air leaks.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 01 June 2015, 17:09:12
19 is deffinately crank sensor. Irrespective of engine on or off.

Clean icv as well.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 01 June 2015, 17:09:51
and investigate why the lamdas are buggered
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 01 June 2015, 18:39:24
and investigate why the lamdas are buggered

That is interesting as that code is present, but with the engine running they produce a nice output as expected.......
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 01 June 2015, 18:40:09
19 is deffinately crank sensor. Irrespective of engine on or off.

Clean icv as well.

Tried to order one today, but apparently need to know it is has a round or square connected - so will have a look tonight and get it ordered  :y
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 01 June 2015, 18:42:28
Is it that stupid unnamed code reader?

Is it going closed loop?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 01 June 2015, 18:49:44
What are the idle and Partial Load trims?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 01 June 2015, 20:50:17
Is it that stupid unnamed code reader?

Is it going closed loop?

"My Naff Code Reader" on the 2.5 yes.....is that bad?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 01 June 2015, 21:18:05
19 is deffinately crank sensor. Irrespective of engine on or off.

Clean icv as well.

Tried to order one today, but apparently need to know it is has a round or square connected - so will have a look tonight and get it ordered  :y

To be honest I can't tell looking at the car!

Does anyone know which of 90492006 or 90492061 it is likely to be?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 01 June 2015, 21:39:38
Is it that stupid unnamed code reader?

Is it going closed loop?

Yes - data linked here, if that helps?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iozhtcugjis3lsj/2.5%20Estate.xls?dl=0
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 02 June 2015, 19:45:34
19 is deffinately crank sensor. Irrespective of engine on or off.

Clean icv as well.

Tried to order one today, but apparently need to know it is has a round or square connected - so will have a look tonight and get it ordered  :y

To be honest I can't tell looking at the car!

Does anyone know which of 90492006 or 90492061 it is likely to be?

That one, which is cheaper and in stock  :y Everyone else may know already, but the part number is printed on the sensor.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 03 June 2015, 19:48:34
Is it that stupid unnamed code reader?

Is it going closed loop?

Yes - data linked here, if that helps?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iozhtcugjis3lsj/2.5%20Estate.xls?dl=0
Its a shit to read, but all looks about right for a 2.5 (assuming you hadn't just cleared codes within the last 10 miles).

Change crank sensor, and see what happens. If the lamda ones remain, it'll be time to dust off the multimeter.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 03 June 2015, 19:51:19
Thank you  :y

Cleared about 300 miles (mostly motorway) before this.

Is it the 'steps' 128 that represents the trim?

New sensor is here tomorrow so I will get it on and report back.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 06 June 2015, 10:49:36
Sensor fitted and after a short test drive no codes logged. Data now looks as below, if the 'steps' are the trim they have changed quite a lot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s3lbiidj4dcq9t/Livedata_1998%20%28W%29_Omega-B_Engine__X%2025%20XE_201506052126%20post%20crank%20sensor.xls?dl=0

Still does not seem to drive quite as it should, almost as if slight misfire - think I will 'access' the dispack next and see how that looks.

Any thoughts on the new data welcome  :y
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 06 June 2015, 19:38:18
Was engine warm, as MAF is far too high, and the trims are all over the place
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 06 June 2015, 21:04:12
Was engine warm, as MAF is far too high, and the trims are all over the place

Yes was warm - that was a short drive around the block.

I have 2 x 2.5's here so would a MAF swap and test be logical?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 06 June 2015, 22:07:41
Have coil pack out now, looks perfect no cracks etc - no markings or GM part numbers though - does that indicate non-genuine?

Measured:

9940 ohms 1 to 4
9970 ohms 3 to 6
9950 ohms 5 to 2

1 ohm - 1 to 4, 2 to 4 & 3 to 4 on the multi plug.

They are consistent, but consistently out of the specified range.

Is that a good test?

Steve
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 07 June 2015, 09:26:13
Does this look GM?

(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/th_d55302aecd3f5e81930b55dcaec72a5d_zps80s4qa85.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/?action=view&current=d55302aecd3f5e81930b55dcaec72a5d_zps80s4qa85.jpg)

(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/th_1be5d8a8015f3ff28ef1afef02b96260_zpscdvljadl.jpg) (http://s429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/?action=view&current=1be5d8a8015f3ff28ef1afef02b96260_zpscdvljadl.jpg)
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 08 June 2015, 22:53:57
Any thoughts anyone?

(I've ordered a new Bosch coil pack today) - started at VX but even TV was £123+vat - Plug leads are NLS.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 09 June 2015, 11:05:19
Plus leads - get Bosch Vectra V6 ones!  :y

Omega ones are a smidge more expensive, but the Vectra ones do fit. (not opinion, fact: I'm running a set of brand new Bosch Vectra ones myself) Also there are more Vectras out there, more modders, more demand etc.. so you can often find a 'deal' on Vectra HTs /NOS wheras a place might say they're out of stock or have to order them in special for Omegas  :)

That looks identical to my DIS pack, but I cannot say whether GM or not. No marks at all on mine, I have an old rusty GM one in the spares-for-the-bin box and it's marked up with a sticker/part numbers etc, so I'd suspect not. Not that that's automatically a bad thing, though. As I say, I'm running on one and she runs fine. If you've ordered a Bosch coilpack you should be fine  :)
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 12 June 2015, 21:44:28
Bosch dis pack fitted and absolutely no difference!  :(
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 12 June 2015, 22:09:38
Bosch dis pack fitted and absolutely no difference!  :(

HT leads next?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2015, 08:40:34
Bosch dis pack fitted and absolutely no difference!  :(

HT leads next?
If you suspect HT issues, yes.  Genuine are stupidly expensive, I'd be looking at pattern.  I'm sure somebody here said they managed to pick up a branded set for only a few quid.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 13 June 2015, 08:47:37
Bosch dis pack fitted and absolutely no difference!  :(

HT leads next?
If you suspect HT issues, yes.  Genuine are stupidly expensive, I'd be looking at pattern.  I'm sure somebody here said they managed to pick up a branded set for only a few quid.

I suspect only because it's misfiring and I've already changed the coil pack. Can't see any tracking in the dark and the look cosmetically ok. Plugs have been changed already. I would like to have more evidence really, but not sure what else would be causing a misfire.

The VX HT lead were £80 a side on TC and NLS!

Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2015, 09:10:19
I assume you've had all the plugs out and checked them?

Misfires with no fault codes (on 2.5 and 3.0) are generally HT, thus normally DIS, leads or plugs.  You've crossed off DIS already.

I think it was Nick W who said he'd got some cheap, might be worth a  search, or a PM to him ;)
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 13 June 2015, 10:09:22
I assume you've had all the plugs out and checked them?

Misfires with no fault codes (on 2.5 and 3.0) are generally HT, thus normally DIS, leads or plugs.  You've crossed off DIS already.

I think it was Nick W who said he'd got some cheap, might be worth a  search, or a PM to him ;)

Thank you for the reply - yes no fault codes logged since I changed the crank sensor. I changed the plugs when doing the cam belt, so they are new GM and the wells were clear of oil and water. I will have a search for the HT leads here as suggested  :y

Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: Nick W on 13 June 2015, 13:45:13
I got some cheap from an autojumble last week.
They're not branded, but they're bundled into each side like the originals, marked with the cylinder number and are brand new. At £7.50 for the set it would have been daft not to buy them, especially as the Intermotor ones on the car were about £35 4years ago.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: stuvaux on 13 June 2015, 19:59:04

Not sure if this will relate to your problem, but it is very similar in some ways to one I had on my V6 Estate recently.

I had starting problems and bad idling. All sorts of things were checked, including MAF and crank sensor. However, the problem was the fuel pipes coming from underneath the fuel pump cover to the pump (located under boot floor, after removing the metal cover plate) were both split. May be worth a check just to rule it out. It is usually the curved metal pipes on top of the pump cover that corrode and cause a problem.

My original thread is here if you want a look: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=122055.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=122055.0)

Stu
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 13 June 2015, 20:59:52
fair point, worth ruling it out  :y
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 14 June 2015, 23:58:18
HT leads changed and its good on Petrol one - much better of LPG but still hesitates with quick throttle application....

Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: 05omegav6 on 15 June 2015, 00:03:10
HT leads changed and its good on Petrol one - much better of LPG but still hesitates with quick throttle application....
That'll be the ecu playing catchup :y
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 15 June 2015, 09:59:54
HT leads changed and its good on Petrol one - much better of LPG but still hesitates with quick throttle application....
That'll be the ecu playing catchup :y

The LPG ECU? A feature of LPG that can't be solved?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 15 June 2015, 20:41:07
HT leads changed and its good on Petrol one - much better of LPG but still hesitates with quick throttle application....
That'll be the ecu playing catchup :y

The LPG ECU? A feature of LPG that can't be solved?

Or just some LPG systems?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 16 June 2015, 20:17:27
Any LPG experts?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 16 June 2015, 22:39:07
If you get a small hesitation on petrol, piggybank LPG will emphasis and amplify this.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: 05omegav6 on 16 June 2015, 23:06:08
HT leads changed and its good on Petrol one - much better of LPG but still hesitates with quick throttle application....
That'll be the ecu playing catchup :y
Sluggish reaction to throttle blip... Might be able to adjust the slop in the cable to minimise the response time, but could equally be an electrical response, or lack of, which as TB says will be exaggerated by the lpg ecu, especially if it's wired up in series rather than parallel... The maps will be slightly different too due to the slight difference in the way the fuel burns ;)
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: TheBoy on 17 June 2015, 07:01:30
Because the 2.5/3.0 are less prone to (petrol) lags and confuddlement than the DBW replacements, I never notice any LPG lags on my 3.0l.  The 3.2 occasionally hiccups if you confuse it, esp around auto gear changes - does this on petrol, and LPG highlights this.
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 17 June 2015, 08:32:25
Because the 2.5/3.0 are less prone to (petrol) lags and confuddlement than the DBW replacements, I never notice any LPG lags on my 3.0l.  The 3.2 occasionally hiccups if you confuse it, esp around auto gear changes - does this on petrol, and LPG highlights this.

Thank you both - after the dispack / HT leads / plugs / crank sensor it seem fine of Petrol - I can put the peddle to the floor as quickly as I can on Petrol and it just takes off without hesitation. ON LPG from idle you need to pickup revs slowly initially - once revving you can then boot it without difficulty.

Would Tech 2 help? Or do I need to be connecting to the LPG ecu to diagnose further?
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: 05omegav6 on 17 June 2015, 08:34:45
Underated vapouriser? Any idea what vapouriser is fitted... :-\
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 17 June 2015, 08:37:30
Underated vapouriser? Any idea what vapouriser is fitted... :-\

Original Tartarini I believe - after the earlier comments when I purchased the car I did check and it is plumbed into the back of the block and seems to receive hot water as soon as the engine is warm. I will see if I can find a model make etc

Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 18 June 2015, 21:15:44
One of these....
http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/tartarini-etagas-regulator-119-p.asp

Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: 05omegav6 on 18 June 2015, 21:35:47
Replace it with one of Theses...
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/300315744789?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=m&rlsatarget=&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fipn%253Dicep%2526icep_id%253D67%2526mtid%253D1673%2526kwid%253D1%2526crlp%253D50600204586_563391%2526icep_item_id%253D300315744789%2526itemid%253D300315744789%2526icep_meta_categ_id%253D131090%2526icep_etrs%253DY%2526icep_epid%253D-999%2526icep_ctlg%253D-999%2526icep_cond%253DNew%2526targetid%253D75951452586%2526rlsatarget%253D%2526rpc%253D0.15%2526rpc_upld_id%253D51006%2526device%253Dm%2526icep_msku_flag%253Dn%2526icep_cbt%253Dn%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526gclid%253DCPy98OiLmsYCFcsJwwodqnEADQ%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D851401215075&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-134428-41853-0%2F2%3Fipn%3Dicep%26icep_id%3D67%26mtid%3D1673%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D50600204586_563391%26icep_item_id%3D300315744789%26itemid%3D300315744789%26icep_meta_categ_id%3D131090%26icep_etrs%3DY%26icep_epid%3D-999%26icep_ctlg%3D-999%26icep_cond%3DNew%26targetid%3D75951452586%26rlsatarget%3D%26rpc%3D0.15%26rpc_upld_id%3D51006%26device%3Dm%26icep_msku_flag%3Dn%26icep_cbt%3Dn%26adtype%3Dpla%26gclid%3DCPy98OiLmsYCFcsJwwodqnEADQ%26srcrot%3D710-134428-41853-0%26rvr_id%3D851401215075&_mwBanner=1

Should be available for less with some shopping around :y
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 18 June 2015, 22:02:19
Thank you......it's just better?

Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: 05omegav6 on 19 June 2015, 06:17:00
If that vapouriser is man enough for the 3.2 at full chat then it will be more than capable on the 2.5... Might also be worth looking at the injectors as well to match them to the vapouriser if it still plays about...

Lpg companies tend to exaggerate the ability of their kit, so no bad thing to over spec it :y
Title: Re: 2.5 Estate fluctuating idle and cutting out
Post by: steve6367 on 19 June 2015, 17:38:32
If that vapouriser is man enough for the 3.2 at full chat then it will be more than capable on the 2.5... Might also be worth looking at the injectors as well to match them to the vapouriser if it still plays about...

Lpg companies tend to exaggerate the ability of their kit, so no bad thing to over spec it :y

I'm not sure it has injectors - there are 2 devices over the cam cover which take a feed from the vaporiser and then simply feed pipes to the inlet manifold by each injector.....