Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: mka306 on 17 June 2015, 17:43:22
-
After putting the engine back together with the new oil cooler and spark plugs I started the engine, it started with no issues at all but I can now hear what sounds like a belt rubbing noise, it's not coming from the timing belt that i'm sure of but it sounds like it's coming from inside the engine. Any ideas what it could be as I'm worried something is going to go bang? The sound does wear off as the engine warms up.
-
This is a video clip of the noise...
(http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx207/mka306/Omega%20Pics/th_20150617_184224_zpshllnmxiv.jpg) (http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx207/mka306/Omega%20Pics/20150617_184224_zpshllnmxiv.mp4)
-
fan/aux belt tensioner roller ............ :-\ :-\
Take the fan belt off & run the engine (not for long though) . if it goes, it's something to do with the fan belt/alternator/aircon, if not ...... obviously something else ::)
-
fan/aux belt tensioner roller ............ :-\ :-\
Take the fan belt off & run the engine (not for long though) . if it goes, it's something to do with the fan belt/alternator/aircon, if not ...... obviously something else ::)
Is the alternator not run by the timing belt? I the fans are in the grill area and the alternator is attached under the v6 block?
-
This is not the exact same engine but will show you which belt does what:
http://youtu.be/8LKB6fBYVaw
-
Looking at that video, I can't see a belt on the alternator pulley. Which would put this firmly in the cambelt area, unless you've managed to completely route the belt wrong, in which case that's the problem.
Have you done anything to the front face (cambelt side) of the engine?
-
Looking at that video, I can't see a belt on the alternator pulley. Which would put this firmly in the cambelt area, unless you've managed to completely route the belt wrong, in which case that's the problem.
Have you done anything to the front face (cambelt side) of the engine?
It shows the aux belt going on last of all, driving the alternator and air con.
-
I know virtually nowt compared to the experts on here. One of them will be along shortly, I'm sure.
-
Looking at that video, I can't see a belt on the alternator pulley. Which would put this firmly in the cambelt area, unless you've managed to completely route the belt wrong, in which case that's the problem.
Have you done anything to the front face (cambelt side) of the engine?
It shows the aux belt going on last of all, driving the alternator and air con.
Sorry the OPs video. No aux belt at all. I'm not convinced that is a belt sound, remove oil filler cap and check there is oil reaching the top of the engine. You can even run it open (briefly) and you should see oil flicking around.
If the cambelt cover hasn't been removed, I would be guessing no oil at the top end and that sound is metal on metal.
-
fan/aux belt tensioner roller ............ :-\ :-\
Take the fan belt off & run the engine (not for long though) . if it goes, it's something to do with the fan belt/alternator/aircon, if not ...... obviously something else ::)
Is the alternator not run by the timing belt? I the fans are in the grill area and the alternator is attached under the v6 block?
The belt that is under the cover and you can't see is the timing belt ....
The belt at the front that you can see is the auxiliary belt and traditionally drove the fan. Fans nowadays are electric so nothing to do with aux belt, but us old buggers will still often refer to is as the fan belt .....
Your alternator is driven by your aux ('fan') belt
-
Sounds like a water pump bearing to me, whip the Aux belt off, does the noise disappear.
-
Sounds like a water pump bearing to me, whip the Aux belt off, does the noise disappear.
The belt is off, in the OP's video you can see the alternator pulley, empty of belt.
-
Sounds like a water pump bearing to me, whip the Aux belt off, does the noise disappear.
The belt is off, in the OP's video you can see the alternator pulley, empty of belt.
Ok, cancel that then. ::)
-
Sounds like a water pump bearing to me, whip the Aux belt off, does the noise disappear.
The belt is off, in the OP's video you can see the alternator pulley, empty of belt.
The belt is not off my friend it is there I can assure you, just the light not hitting that part of the engine. So I can take it off and it won't cause any issues?
I have not taken any belts off when I changed the oil cooler, it has fresh oil from the oil change and filter change and the level is at the max so no issue there, the sound doesn't continue for long, it goes after the engine starts to warm up, literally a couple of minutes.
-
Yes sorry. I can see the WP pulley turning, I just couldn't (still can't) see the belt going around the alternator.
Yeah, drop the aux belt off and see if the noise is still there. Also check the pulleys for play. I will suggest taking a photo of the belt route before. It's not obvious unless you've done a few.
-
Keep an eye on the Engine / Coolant Temp when running with no Aux Belt, they warm up rather quickly. ;)
-
Just got round to having a listen. That's a bearing of some sort, sounds as dry as a nuns fanny.
-
sounds as dry as a nuns fanny.
You've done some strange things in your life matey. ::) ;D
-
Sounds like payday will be shelling out for a cambelt, kit & water pump just to be on the safe side, can't risk losing the big lump for something that I can sort out especially now I have the DVD guide from OOF on changing the belt kit and w/p :y
-
Did you take the aux belt off first? It could just be the tensioner on that, unlikely but you'll be miffed to do a cambelt and still get the same noise.
-
Sounds like payday will be shelling out for a cambelt, kit & water pump just to be on the safe side, can't risk losing the big lump for something that I can sort out especially now I have the DVD guide from OOF on changing the belt kit and w/p :y
As deviator say just says & I said yesterday, run the engine without the aux belt for a short while, if the sound disappears then it's aux belt related ie alternator, tensioner roller etc
Being honest, if you're confusing a fan/aux belt with timing belt I'd ask someone else to look for you :-X
-
Sounds like payday will be shelling out for a cambelt, kit & water pump just to be on the safe side, can't risk losing the big lump for something that I can sort out especially now I have the DVD guide from OOF on changing the belt kit and w/p :y
As deviator say just says & I said yesterday, run the engine without the aux belt for a short while, if the sound disappears then it's aux belt related ie alternator, tensioner roller etc
Being honest, if you're confusing a fan/aux belt with timing belt I'd ask someone else to look for you :-X
I realise which one it is now and I will check but to be honest it will be good to change the belt, kit and water pump just for piece of mind.
-
Sounds like payday will be shelling out for a cambelt, kit & water pump just to be on the safe side, can't risk losing the big lump for something that I can sort out especially now I have the DVD guide from OOF on changing the belt kit and w/p :y
As deviator say just says & I said yesterday, run the engine without the aux belt for a short while, if the sound disappears then it's aux belt related ie alternator, tensioner roller etc
Being honest, if you're confusing a fan/aux belt with timing belt I'd ask someone else to look for you :-X
I realise which one it is now and I will check but to be honest it will be good to change the belt, kit and water pump just for piece of mind.
It's up to you, but it's not a job for the faint hearted.
-
Sounds like payday will be shelling out for a cambelt, kit & water pump just to be on the safe side, can't risk losing the big lump for something that I can sort out especially now I have the DVD guide from OOF on changing the belt kit and w/p :y
As deviator say just says & I said yesterday, run the engine without the aux belt for a short while, if the sound disappears then it's aux belt related ie alternator, tensioner roller etc
Being honest, if you're confusing a fan/aux belt with timing belt I'd ask someone else to look for you :-X
I realise which one it is now and I will check but to be honest it will be good to change the belt, kit and water pump just for piece of mind.
It's up to you, but it's not a job for the faint hearted.
That's why I bought the DVD on how to do it, if I can do an oil cooler change I should be able to manage a cambelt change.
-
...
if I can do an oil cooler change I should be able to manage a cambelt change.
the consequences are somewhat different though ...... ::) ::) Make sure you beg or borrow a proper cam locking kit :y :y
Jumping straight onto a possible cam belt tensioner/idler bearing is jumping the gun a bit. Just slip the aux belt off the tensioner & run the engine before you think along the lines of cam belt
-
...
if I can do an oil cooler change I should be able to manage a cambelt change.
the consequences are somewhat different though ...... ::) ::) Make sure you beg or borrow a proper cam locking kit :y :y
Jumping straight onto a possible cam belt tensioner/idler bearing is jumping the gun a bit. Just slip the aux belt off the tensioner & run the engine before you think along the lines of cam belt
I totally agree with you and I do intend on taking the aux belt off and checking if the sound is gone or not, but my point is would it still not be better to get it changed so then I know the belt won't go on me anytime soon and the water pump will be good?
-
....
would it still not be better to get it changed so then I know the belt won't go on me anytime soon and the water pump will be good?
Don't you have any history of when it was last changed? :-\ I'd leave the water pump .... if it ain't broke ...... don't fix it assuming it's a GM pump, which is better .... a second hand OE pump or a new pattern pump? :-\ ::)
-
The Water Pump runs off the Aux Belt, nothing to do with the Cam Belt Change, whip the Aux Belt off, as said before, my money is on a noisy water pump bearing.
-
The Water Pump runs off the Aux Belt, nothing to do with the Cam Belt Change, whip the Aux Belt off, as said before, my money is on a noisy water pump bearing.
OK I will do it today and report back.
-
The Water Pump runs off the Aux Belt, nothing to do with the Cam Belt Change, whip the Aux Belt off, as said before, my money is on a noisy water pump bearing.
My opinion as well. If you remove the aux belt , you will find out instantly if the problem is related to those components that the belt runs.
Would advise that you make a sketch of the aux belt route though before removing , to assist refitting of it ;)
Bottom line is though . . DON'T run the engine without the aux belt more than a couple of minutes ;) ;)
-
The Water Pump runs off the Aux Belt, nothing to do with the Cam Belt Change, whip the Aux Belt off, as said before, my money is on a noisy water pump bearing.
My opinion as well. If you remove the aux belt , you will find out instantly if the problem is related to those components that the belt runs.
Would advise that you make a sketch of the aux belt route though before removing , to assist refitting of it ;)
Bottom line is though . . DON'T run the engine without the aux belt more than a couple of minutes ;) ;)
Understood and thank you.
-
The Water Pump runs off the Aux Belt, nothing to do with the Cam Belt Change, whip the Aux Belt off, as said before, my money is on a noisy water pump bearing.
[/quote
oops! double post sorry :-[ :-[ :-[ no can delete
-
Well I took the Aux belt off and checked the pulleys, no noticeable play in the pulleys so I started the engine and the noise was still there.
I then topped up the oil as it was 1 notch from max (I did this while the engine was running), after a minute it went quiet, I have started the engine twice more today both times it was approx 4 hours between starts and the sound was faint and went after a few seconds. I'm stumped???
-
.
I then topped up the oil as it was 1 notch from max (I did this while the engine was running), ......
strange noise aside ...... you can't properly check your oil level while the engine is running. The pump is pumping oil everywhere & 'using' oil from the sump distributing to bearings cam etc so the oil level is lower on the dipstick. If you top it to the max when running, then all the oil that is in the galleries will fall to the sump when the engine stops and so make the oil level to high.
-
Christ how much of an idiot do you think I am??? I know how to check the oil level correctly for petes sake!!
-
Christ how much of an idiot do you think I am??? I know how to check the oil level correctly for petes sake!!
I only read what you posted ........ ???
I then topped up the oil as it was 1 notch from max (I did this while the engine was running), ...
-
Christ how much of an idiot do you think I am??? I know how to check the oil level correctly for petes sake!!
Andy is right mate,and he is just trying to help. :y
-
I can understand the miss interpretation of what I wrote but to then give me the whole ins and out of how to do it and what goes wrong was just insulting.
Believe me I am very appreciative of all help given as it is priceless but maybe ask for clarification instead of making an assumption which just made me feel like a total dimwit.
Well no harm done and I have no hard feelings so I will apologise for my reaction and I hope we can move past it.
-
I can understand the miss interpretation of what I wrote but to then give me the whole ins and out of how to do it and what goes wrong was just insulting.
Believe me I am very appreciative of all help given as it is priceless but maybe ask for clarification instead of making an assumption which just made me feel like a total dimwit.
Well no harm done and I have no hard feelings so I will apologise for my reaction and I hope we can move past it.
Don't let it happen again, Dumbo ;D
-
;D ;D Lol, oh ok then my bad ;D ;D
-
Ok then . . last few posts aside . . ::) lets get back to the problem.
just thinking this thread would be better in "Omega General Help" as more members are likely to see & possibly diagnose it there ;)
The sound/noise you have does still happen with the aux belt off ? presume yes :y . so cannot should not be anything to do with water pump, alternator or any of the other couple of things that the aux belt runs :y
Presume that it was not making this noise before you carried out the oil cooler work ?
Once the noise has stopped & engine is quiet, if you turn off the engine & then re start it , is the noise there again ?
If not, my opinion would be lack of oil at the lifters on start up, which IMO really has no reason to occur by doing an oil cooler repair , if it was not there prior to that work being carried out:-\
Lets get the answers to these questions first , then move on :y
-
Ok the noise was not there before I did the oil cooler change, I have changed the oil cooler with a genuine GM and I followed the guide to the letter and all came out and went back in with no real issues.
When the car is started from cold i.e first thing in the morning the noise is there, it then fades after no more than 30 secs to 1 min. If I start the engine again say 4 hours later the noise comes and goes within 10 secs.
The only thing I can remember thinking was odd was a random pipe being attached at one end but not the other, this is at the back of the engine but I can't see where it would of come from and I didn't pull it off so I assumed it may be the drainage pipe for the air con? Or could this be the issue and I need to find where the pipe has come from??
-
Ok the noise was not there before I did the oil cooler change, I have changed the oil cooler with a genuine GM and I followed the guide to the letter and all came out and went back in with no real issues.
When the car is started from cold i.e first thing in the morning the noise is there, it then fades after no more than 30 secs to 1 min. If I start the engine again say 4 hours later the noise comes and goes within 10 secs.
The only thing I can remember thinking was odd was a random pipe being attached at one end but not the other, this is at the back of the engine but I can't see where it would of come from and I didn't pull it off so I assumed it may be the drainage pipe for the air con? Or could this be the issue and I need to find where the pipe has come from??
That black rubber pipe is almost certainly the auto box breather. It should run down the back & onto a small pipe coming out of the top, towards the back of the AR35 :y so no problem there .
From your response it sounds to me as if it is lack of oil at the lifters on start up . I think there should be a non return valve in the system somewhere to stop the oil draining back from the top of the engine when not running . Not 100% on that , but someone else will soon advise on that :-\
Seems strange though that it did not do this before you carried out the oil cooler work :-\ :-\
As a thought , when cold , start the engine & while the noise is prominate & at it's loudest, take off the oil filler & listen to see if noise gets louder with that off . If so , that should point to that it is coming from cam/lifter area on the 2-4-6 bank at least. If oil is draining back to the lower part of the engine , I would say that both banks will be affected ;)
Hopefully you will get more feedback from more knowledgeable members on here , but HTH :y
-
Every new bit of info is a help and very much appreciated, I can see me taking the plenum back off and may be a few other bits to see if there is anything obvious but as I never opened the cam covers or touched anything else other than what was stated I do feel a bit confused.
Still I shall go and see what the noise is like with the cap off and my ear pinned to it :y