Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: EMD on 29 June 2015, 14:36:41
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How long before our omegas become classic cars ? I think they are standing the test of time so far , solidly built and only minimal rust that can be treated . Im sure the cars will become collectible and sought after if not already :-\
Seems as soon as a nice one comes up for sale they get snapped up , hopefully prices will increase :)
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In the eyes of the insurance world...
15years+ is semi-classic.
20years+ if classic.
Be careful of classic policies though. As you don't build a NCB and there are other limitations. My MX5 is on a classic.
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IMHO they are never likely to reach true "classic" status, not because they don't deserve to, or because no-one wants one, but simply due to lack of spares. Once the supply of "proper" electronic parts dries up we will be stuffed... take something as simple as a crank sensor, we know from experience that only genuine work.... all the rest are rubbish ... so once GM run out .. where do we get them from ?? To that list start to add things like MAF sensors, coil packs, etc etc and you get the idea I hope.
True "classic" cars are fixable almost by a blacksmith making a new part from scratch, with the electronics we have that will just not happen, unfortunately :(
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On the same lines, how long will parts be available?
I am thinking on the lines of V6 oil coolers, genuine cam cover gaskets, exhausts for example
edit beaten to it!
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edit: a few points already raised above, but as this took so long to type I'm not re-editing itall, haha :y
Sorry to say my belief is the 'curse of the classic Vauxhall' is sure to play a part. Just look at the price of a Mk 1 Escort vs a Viva, or a Rover SD1 vs a Cresta/Victor 3300, or a Granada vs a Royale/Senator. For some reason, the populous as a whole don't seem to care much about old Vauxhalls.
It it Pop Culture, is it badge snobbery? I know one thing, it's certainly not the cars, the design, the quality of the product. I'm a patriotic Vauxhall man, and am content that the products from Luton have been consistently an equal or Better of Daghenam's since year dot. But some clever product placement by Ford, BL in the 70s has meant that a generation will forever associate Granadas, Capris, Escorts, Cortinas with moustached, womanising, hard-drinking, tough, uncompromising Coppers, Special Branch. Same way that all bad guys in a Bond film drive black German cars [notices own OOF profile, ermmm.... ::)] it's in the public conscience.
Things like TV series Ashes to Ashes has a direct result on the value of Audi Quattros. Aston DB5s in Silver Birch are worth more than in any other colour. Same can be said for Gran Torinos in red with a white stripe down the side.
Reasons to Love an Omega
The Omega, as the last rear-drive mass-produced saloon car by a volume car manufacturer, owned by the Royal Family, MPs, used by drug dealers, CID and the Police alike, replacing the legendary Senny. When the NCAP-led safety buzz kicked off in the late 90s, the Omega was one of the very very few cars to get 3 stars, and MANY manufacturers were left with egg on their face as their products were shown to fold in crashes. Omega didn't. 3 star is poor by today's standards, but one of the safest cars in the world in 1998. It outlasted all its other rivals, Citroen, Renault, Ford, Rover all making large executive saloons in 1994, by 2003... none.
I reckon that earns the Omega a place in Automotive History, and should help used/classic values. But even the Royale Saloon/Coupe, the rarest of the rare -beautiful to look at, strong, bulletproof engines, luxurious, smooth as silk ride, no bleeder cares about them/wants one. They're worth next to nowt, tragically. there's less than 60.
They'll always become 'Classic' Cars, as does any vehicle over the age of what, 30, 35 the recognised age? But many argue that is simply an old car, and that a true 'classic' must have achieved something in people's hearts and minds. I've vote 'yes' for the Omega. Or at least it deserves it, whether it will get it is another matter, which only Time can tell :)
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Vauxhalls very rarely achieve classic status in the car world. The LC is one of the few that spring to mind which have.
Even most of the VX,s from decades ago aren't particularily thought of as classics by most people. The reason why is a mystery to me, but it is generally an unloved marque, compared to Ford and other mass produced marques.
Its also strange to me that to my knowledge, Wheeler dealers have never had a Vauxhall episode in all the years they have been "restoring" cars on TV.
Omegas will imo, never achieve any kind of classic status outside the ever declining band of people on this site.
edit. DBG was evidently typing much the same sentiments as me (albeit much more eloquently) , at the same time. ;D
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IMHO they are never likely to reach true "classic" status, not because they don't deserve to, or because no-one wants one, but simply due to lack of spares. Once the supply of "proper" electronic parts dries up we will be stuffed... take something as simple as a crank sensor, we know from experience that only genuine work.... all the rest are rubbish ... so once GM run out .. where do we get them from ?? To that list start to add things like MAF sensors, coil packs, etc etc and you get the idea I hope.
True "classic" cars are fixable almost by a blacksmith making a new part from scratch, with the electronics we have that will just not happen, unfortunately :(
And how We gonna get around that one then :-\ :-\ We are Not.... Entwood is correct... They are all going to die ;D ;D ;D
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It's a funny thing, which cars get labelled classics and which don't.
I was watching top gear last night and they were talking about the MG B being the classic "classic". They cut and shut a Morris Oxford into a 2 door and put a Sherpa van engine in it, creating a "sports car" in name only and it's an undoubted classic, yet other much more competent cars get forgotten. ;D
In terms of cars lasting into the future to become classics, the ECUs all now rely on flash memory, which doesn't last forever. A crank sensor you can make yourself if you're determined enough. Oil coolers can be removed and replaced with a conventional air cooled cooler. Once the electronics has packed up, it's more of a headache to keep it on the road. OK, we're talking maybe another 30 or 40 years before they are all dead, but plenty of classics of today have lived longer than that.
Talking about Vauxhalls, I think the Monza/Royale, Senator and Omega line of cars are the only Vauxhalls I've ever given a second look. Everything else they have produced has been white goods on wheels in my eyes. Maybe it's not just me? :-\
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In the eyes of the insurance world...
15years+ is semi-classic.
20years+ if classic.
That means my 2.2 is now deemed as semi classic? :)
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The Signum is sure to become a sought after classic. ;D ;D
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But an engine swap ie V8 is possible if you want to keep it going . I think the spares will be available for a long time to come yet :) Dont see any in the breakers around here so there must be a vast amount still on the roads . Could even downsize to a 4 pot replacement as there are more available transplants over different vauxhall models :y
Time to build up the parts again just in case though .
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My frontera must be nearly a classic aswell lol
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My frontera must be nearly a classic aswell lol
;D ;D ;D you poor, deluded fool.
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My frontera must be nearly a classic aswell lol
;D ;D ;D you poor, deluded fool.
Yeah, I think Clarkson may have devalued it a bit last night. ;D
Then again, the "single axle" mod for better off-road performance might catch on. :D
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I think the writing is on the wall for all cars with complicated electronics, old skool mechanics driven cars will continue to live on, have you seen the prices of old Fords and even Land Rovers, they are through the roof; and you cant find a decent Mini for less than £5k............ :o :o
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How much longer will polluting internal combustion engined vehicles be allowed on the roads is another good question?
Last Friday as I was walking down to Sandhurst station to catch a train, there was this loud clattering sound behind me and a steam lorry with trailer drove past.
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Amen... speaking of how the electronics side of our cars will slowly fade and die... did people say the same of blacksmithing, old-school engineering, etc in the 1960s - when the very last of steam lorries, traction engines and steam rollers were eventually all-but removed from the roads? Surely the demand for a company that can make you a custom made crank, or even an entire wheel or cylinder for such a machine would have ceased? And yet here we are, in the 21st century, and we can still build an entire chuffing (no pun intended) steam train :y
http://www.a1steam.com/ (http://www.a1steam.com/)
Above is perhaps most famous for its part in the Top Gear episode where a Vincent, Jag and Loco raced each other. How have we still got the ability and resources in this land to manufacture a working, full-size Locomotive? I think it's wonderful. :)
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Amen... speaking of how the electronics side of our cars will slowly fade and die... did people say the same of blacksmithing, old-school engineering, etc in the 1960s....
The difference is, you can reproduce a part a blacksmith has made simply by copying its' shape. Try that with an engine ECU. ;)
Granted, you can replace it with a Megasquirt or something to keep the engine working, but what of the more modern cars that use CAN to interconnect everything? Not that they'll be missed when they're gone, IMHO.
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Fair point. My reasoning was that, for instance, the technology to manufacture an microprocessor in the Victorian age wasn't there. All the metals and elements existed on the periodic table, but simply even the highest technology in the Empire wouldnt have been able to do it. Fast forward 100 years and we're at a point where you can solder your own printed circuit board in your bedroom - Raspberry Pie computers are another good example. Among a few daft hobbies I restore old GPO phones, but upon the eventual removal of analogue phone lines (as with TV and eventually radio >:() there's already little black box on the market for converting the pulse dial to tone, meaning they'll work forever :)
If there's a demand for it, people will make it. And as technology moves forward the impossible to source specialist OEM-only wire of yesterday will become the easily build up wire in kit form of tomorrow.
Just on the crank sensor side of things... correct me if I'm wrong, but generally it's not the sensor that fails, but the wire that breaks down through constant exposure to excessive heat? - Routing it against the inner wing eliminates this problem, ergo: do this and they should last 'forever' (well, a damn sight longer, anyway). But upon a failed crank sensor, surely it's not an impossibility to replace the wire itself, using the original GM plug and sensor at each end?
As classic parts become hard and eventually impossible to source any classic car owner ends up making clever and lateral choices/modifications. It's been happening for donkeys years and shall no doubt continue. Hopefully! :D
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My frontera must be nearly a classic aswell lol
;D ;D ;D you poor, deluded fool.
Yeah, I think Clarkson may have devalued it a bit last night. ;D
Then again, the "single axle" mod for better off-road performance might catch on. :D
I actually think he appeared to be somewhat disappointed to not be able to break it and it still was ok off road despite wearing road tyres with very little tread.......and of course he was wrong, the 2.2 was never fitted in a Vectra...... ;D :D :y
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How much longer will polluting internal combustion engined vehicles be allowed on the roads is another good question?
Last Friday as I was walking down to Sandhurst station to catch a train, there was this loud clattering sound behind me and a steam lorry with trailer drove past.
Where as I was following a 2003 Range Rover V8 today and every time he lifted off the back end of the vehicle disappeared in a cloud of oil smoke!
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Amen... speaking of how the electronics side of our cars will slowly fade and die... did people say the same of blacksmithing, old-school engineering, etc in the 1960s - when the very last of steam lorries, traction engines and steam rollers were eventually all-but removed from the roads? Surely the demand for a company that can make you a custom made crank, or even an entire wheel or cylinder for such a machine would have ceased? And yet here we are, in the 21st century, and we can still build an entire chuffing (no pun intended) steam train :y
http://www.a1steam.com/ (http://www.a1steam.com/)
Above is perhaps most famous for its part in the Top Gear episode where a Vincent, Jag and Loco raced each other. How have we still got the ability and resources in this land to manufacture a working, full-size Locomotive? I think it's wonderful. :)
I'm with you...
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15 years for semi classic status...... my 2000 Zaf is a semi classic!!!!
keith B
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The problem with the miggy is that it is like Ronseal "It does what it says on the tin" and very well just has the wrong badge. Maybe badge fads are for idiots that's why you find them behind the wheel of a BMW! ;D ;D ;D
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The problem with the miggy is that it is like Ronseal "It does what it says on the tin" and very well just has the wrong badge. Maybe badge fads are for idiots that's why you find them behind the wheel of a BMW! ;D ;D ;D
Yep :y
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I will stick with me 2.5V6 manual, all the perks of a BMW - leather trim PAS, ABS, Traction Control etc but much cheaper and just as good :y
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I will stick with me 2.5V6 manual, all the perks of a BMW - leather trim PAS, ABS, Traction Control etc but much cheaper and just as good :y
.............. :y
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Seconded 'Thirded' :y
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17 years old and 138k and still going, the wife wishes it would die but it just keeps trucking :y
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Yeah, sadly the big Vauxhalls, from the PB Crestas to the Viscounts, Royales, Senators etc don't have the kind of cult following the big Fords do.
That said, speaking as a long time BL/Rover fan, it is only over the last decade that cars like the SD1 or the Princess have gone from total and utter ridicule to star car status. But the big Rover 800 - a car I love and have owned various models of - languishes in the ''it's crap'' category still. How long till that changes, if ever? Will it take some kind of outbreak of nostalgia for the 90s??
There is at least one big Vauxhall that tops a lot of people's wish lists - yes, even beyond a bronze Granada Mk 1 - and that is the Vauxhall Cresta PA. On styling grounds alone it is just epic, in my eyes at least. And nowadays worth a small fortune
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/musicalpyramid/Vauxhall_Cresta_PA_1961_-_Flickr_-_mick_-_Lumix.jpg) (http://s420.photobucket.com/user/musicalpyramid/media/Vauxhall_Cresta_PA_1961_-_Flickr_-_mick_-_Lumix.jpg.html)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/musicalpyramid/9bcbabb4a1f52acef65a11153a495058.jpg) (http://s420.photobucket.com/user/musicalpyramid/media/9bcbabb4a1f52acef65a11153a495058.jpg.html)
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Yeah, sadly the big Vauxhalls, from the PB Crestas to the Viscounts, Royales, Senators etc don't have the kind of cult following the big Fords do.
That said, speaking as a long time BL/Rover fan, it is only over the last decade that cars like the SD1 or the Princess have gone from total and utter ridicule to star car status. But the big Rover 800 - a car I love and have owned various models of - languishes in the ''it's crap'' category still. How long till that changes, if ever? Will it take some kind of outbreak of nostalgia for the 90s??
There is at least one big Vauxhall that tops a lot of people's wish lists - yes, even beyond a bronze Granada Mk 1 - and that is the Vauxhall Cresta PA. On styling grounds alone it is just epic, in my eyes at least. And nowadays worth a small fortune
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/musicalpyramid/Vauxhall_Cresta_PA_1961_-_Flickr_-_mick_-_Lumix.jpg) (http://s420.photobucket.com/user/musicalpyramid/media/Vauxhall_Cresta_PA_1961_-_Flickr_-_mick_-_Lumix.jpg.html)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/musicalpyramid/9bcbabb4a1f52acef65a11153a495058.jpg) (http://s420.photobucket.com/user/musicalpyramid/media/9bcbabb4a1f52acef65a11153a495058.jpg.html)
Drool............ :y :y
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Always adored them, hope to get one one day...
and here's sad car Fact #57 - Ska band The Specials' 1981 hit Ghost Town, which describes the decay of Coventry's Automotive industry, as the previous decade had seen much of BL's and Rootes Group's collaspe features ... a black PA Cresta :y (as opposed to a Midlands Car maker) Perhaps they thought it was a Humber Sceptre? :)
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Yeah, sadly the big Vauxhalls, from the PB Crestas to the Viscounts, Royales, Senators etc don't have the kind of cult following the big Fords do.
That said, speaking as a long time BL/Rover fan, it is only over the last decade that cars like the SD1 or the Princess have gone from total and utter ridicule to star car status. But the big Rover 800 - a car I love and have owned various models of - languishes in the ''it's crap'' category still. How long till that changes, if ever? Will it take some kind of outbreak of nostalgia for the 90s??
There is at least one big Vauxhall that tops a lot of people's wish lists - yes, even beyond a bronze Granada Mk 1 - and that is the Vauxhall Cresta PA. On styling grounds alone it is just epic, in my eyes at least. And nowadays worth a small fortune
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/musicalpyramid/Vauxhall_Cresta_PA_1961_-_Flickr_-_mick_-_Lumix.jpg) (http://s420.photobucket.com/user/musicalpyramid/media/Vauxhall_Cresta_PA_1961_-_Flickr_-_mick_-_Lumix.jpg.html)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/musicalpyramid/9bcbabb4a1f52acef65a11153a495058.jpg) (http://s420.photobucket.com/user/musicalpyramid/media/9bcbabb4a1f52acef65a11153a495058.jpg.html)
Drool............ :y :y
Sadly, they, like many cars of that era,, suffered particularly badly from tin-worm, up under the fins and around headlamps IIRC. The lower one is nicely finished in what was then known as 'nipple pink', as only a sucker would buy it. ::)
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Yup, Seem to think it was called 'Royal Glow and Ivory' or something similarly marketing-speak... surely must rank as one of the strangest/bravest sales and marketing strategies in car history... taking a manufacturer which was hitherto known for making cars for Doctors, Headmasters, Bank Managers, Mayors and the like, and producing a car dripping in American glam and glitz, in two tone pink.
Mind, the previous model wasn't quite in the 'staid and dowdy' category, either...
(http://www.theashdownclassicweddingcarcollection.co.uk/images/1957-vauxhall-cresta.jpg) 8)
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Wow that Cresta has definitely been lovingly looked after :y absolutely mint condition and nice to see out and about. Nice one 8) 8) 8)
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Yup, Seem to think it was called 'Royal Glow and Ivory' or something similarly marketing-speak... surely must rank as one of the strangest/bravest sales and marketing strategies in car history... taking a manufacturer which was hitherto known for making cars for Doctors, Headmasters, Bank Managers, Mayors and the like, and producing a car dripping in American glam and glitz, in two tone pink.
Mind, the previous model wasn't quite in the 'staid and dowdy' category, either...
(http://www.theashdownclassicweddingcarcollection.co.uk/images/1957-vauxhall-cresta.jpg) 8)
I really loved that model, a Velox of that type as one of my first drives. :y