Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: berserkerboy on 05 July 2015, 07:16:30

Title: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: berserkerboy on 05 July 2015, 07:16:30
There is no WIM near enough for me SA19 8LS to visit. I've recently done a wishbone and drop link change and my tracking needs looking at. Local ATS have the equipment to do 4 wheel alignment. If I take it to them what settings should I ask them to do with the car unloaded?

The guy there said he would have to see if the rear was adjustable as he had never done one. Will it be obvious to him how to do it?
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: tunnie on 05 July 2015, 09:33:30
Very. Supply WIM settings, details are around here somewhere.

But I'd look for a specialist if you can, ATS are just good for tyres in my experience, as you want a full geometry setup, not just tracking
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: biggriffin on 05 July 2015, 09:55:06
 tracking 0' parallel
Front camber 1'20 or less
Rear camber 1'30-1'20
Thrust angle 0'
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 July 2015, 10:37:21
Rear is adjustable by rear track rods for camber and toe combined. It is a compromise, but should also give a zero thrust angle. Not sure he'll get that correct with just four wheel alignment. (Thrust angle means the rear axle is pushing the car dead ahead. If it's not right the car will crab, and the steering wheel will never be straight/level even if the front figures are correct)
Toe is -0,10 combined, so 0.05 per side, +/-0.05. A parallel setting on oe bushes is not ideal as it can allow toe out under breaking leading to instability.

Target camber is -1.10 for a standard car. -1.15 for sports suspension IF the evident tyre wear warrants it. Sorry but -1.20 is too much under any condition.

Castor is not adjustable, officially. BUT the correct angle can be achieved by moving subframe first. Then camber, then toe last.

While four wheel alignment may not be idea, it's probably better than nothing. Given the work done, provided he's accurate with the figures.
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 July 2015, 10:38:33
Also get some penetrating oil on the front and rear track rod adjustors, as they do have a habit of seizing.
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: TheBoy on 05 July 2015, 11:23:11
4 wheel alignment is no good, as you can't set the rear toe with it, or any of the cambers and casters.

Find somewhere with a proper geometry machine, and provide the specs to them.
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: VXL V6 on 05 July 2015, 11:39:43
tracking 0' parallel
Front camber 1'20 or less
Rear camber 1'30-1'20
Thrust angle 0'

that should be a minus figure not a positive figure. :y
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 July 2015, 14:19:21
4 wheel alignment is no good, as you can't set the rear toe with it, or any of the cambers and casters.

Find somewhere with a proper geometry machine, and provide the specs to them.

A terminology thing perhaps? Web site suggests they can...?

http://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/wheel-alignment
Click the information tab
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: EMD on 05 July 2015, 14:36:41
Be really handy if Ats can do it , one 5 minutes away from
us coofer's  :)
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 July 2015, 14:38:32
Be really handy if Ats can do it , one 5 minutes away from
us coofer's  :)

Check which centre provides what service.
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: TheBoy on 05 July 2015, 16:12:47
4 wheel alignment is no good, as you can't set the rear toe with it, or any of the cambers and casters.

Find somewhere with a proper geometry machine, and provide the specs to them.

A terminology thing perhaps? Web site suggests they can...?

http://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/wheel-alignment
Click the information tab
The image at top of that page looks to be bog standard 4 wheel alignment/4 wheel laser alignment.  I wonder if that is what most of their centre's offer?

Obviously, maybe their bigger centres have better equipment, as the text implies (but doesn't specifically state). Certainly the local ATS here, and the one near work lack anything other than the 4 wheel laser stuff, which as we know is as much use as a use condom smeared in dogshit on an Omega.


As an aside, as a corporate website is purely for advertising capability, you'd expect them to show their better equipment in their online images ;D
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: TheBoy on 05 July 2015, 16:19:37
4 wheel alignment is no good, as you can't set the rear toe with it, or any of the cambers and casters.

Find somewhere with a proper geometry machine, and provide the specs to them.

A terminology thing perhaps? Web site suggests they can...?

http://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/wheel-alignment
Click the information tab
4 wheel alignment is a standard term for setting front toe, using the rear as a guide (yet no practical way to see if rears are correct to start with).

If you go to the "Buy" option on ATS' site, implication is you can have bog standard tracking (front axle) or 4 wheel alignment (front and rear). Even if their kit can measure camber with internal sensors on the wheel gear, it doesn't look to be a full geometry check that we know the Omega needs...  ...we both know the criticality of getting the rear toe (thrust angle) bang on 0'00 on an Omega.
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: TheBoy on 05 July 2015, 16:24:20
Be really handy if Ats can do it , one 5 minutes away from
us coofer's  :)
Try some of the independents, certainly the place near the A5/A43 roundabout in Towcester has the right gear (but not used, so no idea if they have the skill).

Chesham isn't that far away in reality.  Yes, it costs more than 99p, but they understand what the settings do, and the impacts or each adjustment.  Fleet in Loughborough is recommended by Marks DTM Calib, though I've never used them.

Having been through hell and back in the early days of Omega ownership to get the bugger to handle correctly, and not to chew tyres constantly, believe me, using a set of mongrels who don't understand what they are doing (but just follow instructions, without understanding) is a complete waste of money, and tyres.
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: chrisgixer on 05 July 2015, 19:54:35
4 wheel alignment is no good, as you can't set the rear toe with it, or any of the cambers and casters.

Find somewhere with a proper geometry machine, and provide the specs to them.

A terminology thing perhaps? Web site suggests they can...?

http://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/wheel-alignment
Click the information tab
4 wheel alignment is a standard term for setting front toe, using the rear as a guide (yet no practical way to see if rears are correct to start with).

If you go to the "Buy" option on ATS' site, implication is you can have bog standard tracking (front axle) or 4 wheel alignment (front and rear). Even if their kit can measure camber with internal sensors on the wheel gear, it doesn't look to be a full geometry check that we know the Omega needs...  ...we both know the criticality of getting the rear toe (thrust angle) bang on 0'00 on an Omega.

Christ your an argumentative bugger. I'm agreeing with you ffs ;D

Point is, as you confirm, it's not exactly clear.... Is it? And the op will need to bare this in mind.
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: TheBoy on 05 July 2015, 20:00:54
Christ your an argumentative bugger. I'm agreeing with you ffs ;D

Point is, as you confirm, it's not exactly clear.... Is it? And the op will need to bare this in mind.
Oh no I'm not ;D ;D ;D

Nah, seriously, just trying to ensure OP was aware of the difference, and not to throw hard earned pennies down the shitter.  Its all too easy to be lead to believe these companies can do more than they can, if you're not aware of the difference, as you know :y.  And unless you've seen proper geometry machines, you probably would believe a set of lasers fired off the bits hanging off the wheels is the complete solution, when we know its not  :'(
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: EMD on 05 July 2015, 21:13:14
Be really handy if Ats can do it , one 5 minutes away from
us coofer's  :)
Try some of the independents, certainly the place near the A5/A43 roundabout in Towcester has the right gear (but not used, so no idea if they have the skill).

Chesham isn't that far away in reality. Yes, it costs more than 99p, but they understand what the settings do, and the impacts or each adjustment.  Fleet in Loughborough is recommended by Marks DTM Calib, though I've never used them.

Having been through hell and back in the early days of Omega ownership to get the bugger to handle correctly, and not to chew tyres constantly, believe me, using a set of mongrels who don't understand what they are doing (but just follow instructions, without understanding) is a complete waste of money, and tyres.

Damn , will have to save up then  :( Ive no issues atm but i'll probably try Loughborough when needed and see if there's any discount for mentioning oof  :D
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: Seth on 05 July 2015, 22:45:36
Autostop's Porth (in the Rhondda Valley) branch set mine to WIM's specs over a year ago and I've had no issues with their work :y

Needed alignment only (after track rod end change) and also tweeked one of the rears without me asking. Camber and caster angles were bang on. Usually buy our tyres there too ;)

Have a gander at: http://www.autostopwales.co.uk/

Whilst they also have a branch close to M4 J36 at Bridgend, I personally prefer to use their Porth branch, which is about 15 minutes from M4 J34.
Rob Hughes is da man to speak with! ;) 
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: VXL V6 on 06 July 2015, 07:26:20
Be really handy if Ats can do it , one 5 minutes away from
us coofer's  :)
Try some of the independents, certainly the place near the A5/A43 roundabout in Towcester has the right gear (but not used, so no idea if they have the skill).

Chesham isn't that far away in reality. Yes, it costs more than 99p, but they understand what the settings do, and the impacts or each adjustment.  Fleet in Loughborough is recommended by Marks DTM Calib, though I've never used them.

Having been through hell and back in the early days of Omega ownership to get the bugger to handle correctly, and not to chew tyres constantly, believe me, using a set of mongrels who don't understand what they are doing (but just follow instructions, without understanding) is a complete waste of money, and tyres.

Damn , will have to save up then  :( Ive no issues atm but i'll probably try Loughborough when needed and see if there's any discount for mentioning oof  :D

Fleet Fit are ok, best to pay cash though  ;)
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: dbug on 06 July 2015, 14:49:05
Nice to see that no-ones getting the aggro I got for using a local guy for full geo, and to the OOF (WIMs) figures.   :o
Title: Re: Tracking set up at local ATS
Post by: biggriffin on 06 July 2015, 19:41:53
Nice to see that no-ones getting the aggro I got for using a local guy for full geo, and to the OOF (WIMs) figures.   :o
I think you was bullied, by the bigger boys  :P