Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tunnie on 19 August 2015, 08:48:25

Title: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 19 August 2015, 08:48:25
So I replaced the rear shock bushes, with nice new ones on the 2.2 - Does appear to have helped things, not as bad as it was.

But it does still knock a bit from the back over rough roads, more so than it used to I feel  :-\ Take the 3.2 down same bit of road it's noticeably more quiet, less knocking/crashing about from the rear.

Both have standard GM shocks on the back and standard springs.

Rear donut bushes?  :-\ They are original to the car (15 years & 181k)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: 05omegav6 on 19 August 2015, 10:56:02
Tyre pressures, diff mounts, rear subframe bushes :-\ And don't forget that inspite of 17" wheels, the Elite is softer sprung and with self levelling, the ride height is much more consistent even when loaded.   :y
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 19 August 2015, 11:00:04
Tyre pressures, diff mounts, rear subframe bushes :-\ And don't forget that inspite of 17" wheels, the Elite is softer sprung and with self levelling, the ride height is much more consistent even when loaded.   :y

Pressures - Checked recently, these Kumo's on CDX alloys have been excellent holding pressure. Popped them up from 29 to usual 31.

Diff Mounts - Would need to check these, last off maybe a year ago for full inspection of springs.

Subframe bushes - Same as rear donut?  :-\

No SL kit left on the 3.2  :y (apart from the pump in the engine bay)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: 05omegav6 on 19 August 2015, 11:01:37
Yes re subframe bushes :y

What springs on the 3.2? if still standard Elite, then that's the key...
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 19 August 2015, 11:05:05
Yes re subframe bushes :y

What springs on the 3.2? if still standard Elite, then that's the key...

Errr not actually sure.  :-[ I had some in the garage that we slapped on, never sure if they were SL or not. But the 3.2 does tend to sit rather low at the back, so maybe has softer SL springs but with standard shocks.

That said, it's become more noticable in the last 3 months or so on the 2.2, it never knocked about as much as it does now. Also it's starting to use more oil  :'(

Still silky smooth on good roads, just rough roads it's not as quite as it used to be.  :-\
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: 05omegav6 on 19 August 2015, 11:09:43
Plod saloon springs will pick up the 3.2 a bit :y

As for the 2.2, does it feel disconnected if you chuck it around? If yes, then startv with the subframe bushes then the rear diff mounts :y
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 19 August 2015, 11:11:35
I don't really chuck it around, need little fatty to give it a go. But given how he likes things setup, I don't think he will be complementary about my trusty steed running on standard running gear that is fairly old  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 19 August 2015, 11:14:35
Is this the going rate? 20 bucks each?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-REAR-CROSS-MEMBER-FRONT-BUSH-/330439576840?hash=item4cefbbcd08 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-REAR-CROSS-MEMBER-FRONT-BUSH-/330439576840?hash=item4cefbbcd08)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: 05omegav6 on 19 August 2015, 11:29:19
Fatty admins driving style is kind of irrelevant  ::) the idea isn't to rag the car to an inch of it's life, but rather to drive it briskly along a twisty bit of road or throw it into a fast roundabout... that half one on the A322? coming south from Bracknell where the left lane goes off and the rightlane carries on south towards Frimley... might be near Sandown :-\ (I can picture it clearly, but not a hundred percent about the road names)... put it through that southbound section in the right hand lane at the limit and see how the car feels.

A well sorted Omega can hypothetically handle it well over the posted limit without getting out of shape...

The basic idea is to load the suspension up first one way then the other in quick succession and see how it feels... roll is acceptable, looseness or vagueness is not... doesn't need to be at speed necessarily, but you do need to get the weight to shift, so don't be delicate ;)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: 05omegav6 on 19 August 2015, 11:34:25
Is this the going rate? 20 bucks each?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-REAR-CROSS-MEMBER-FRONT-BUSH-/330439576840?hash=item4cefbbcd08 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-REAR-CROSS-MEMBER-FRONT-BUSH-/330439576840?hash=item4cefbbcd08)
I wouldn't fit a Firstline bush to your car, let alone mine ;D

Try these Febi ones...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sub-Frame-Axle-Bush-Mount-Mounting-Rear-Opel-Omega-Vauxhall-Omega-0402942-/371210576530?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item566ddfe292

Cheaper, too :y
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Shackeng on 19 August 2015, 11:40:00
Poly's not available?
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: 05omegav6 on 19 August 2015, 11:42:37
Poly's not available?
They are, but at a Tunnie bashing £99.00...

http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/rear-end-pac--monaro-models-with-harrop-diff-cover_p23023672.htm

Actually they have gone up 95p, but still cheaper than Pedders ;)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 19 August 2015, 11:53:05
Is this the going rate? 20 bucks each?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-REAR-CROSS-MEMBER-FRONT-BUSH-/330439576840?hash=item4cefbbcd08 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-REAR-CROSS-MEMBER-FRONT-BUSH-/330439576840?hash=item4cefbbcd08)
I wouldn't fit a Firstline bush to your car, let alone mine ;D

Try these Febi ones...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sub-Frame-Axle-Bush-Mount-Mounting-Rear-Opel-Omega-Vauxhall-Omega-0402942-/371210576530?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item566ddfe292

Cheaper, too :y

They look better ta  :y

Poly's not available?
They are, but at a Tunnie bashing £99.00...

http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/rear-end-pac--monaro-models-with-harrop-diff-cover_p23023672.htm

Actually they have gone up 95p, but still cheaper than Pedders ;)

Not too interested in Poly's - It's ride comfort I'm after, rather than handling.  :)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 19 August 2015, 19:10:27
Double check you haven't broken a spring. The roads are shocking.
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 19 August 2015, 19:11:34
And last time I proper thrashed that 2.2 was when I was trying (and failed) to keep that TVR honest the day we picked up that purple elite shed...
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 19 August 2015, 19:12:18
Double check you haven't broken a spring. The roads are shocking.

Checked spring when changed shock bushes. All good  :y

Does appear to be more on passenger side  :-\

And last time I proper thrashed that 2.2 was when I was trying (and failed) to keep that TVR honest the day we picked up that purple elite shed...

That was a looooong time ago  :o
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 19 August 2015, 19:14:09
Double check you haven't broken a spring. The roads are shocking.

Checked spring when changed shock bushes. All good  :y

Does appear to be more on passenger side  :-\

And last time I proper thrashed that 2.2 was when I was trying (and failed) to keep that TVR honest the day we picked up that purple elite shed...

That was a looooong time ago  :o
I tried it after you LPG'd it, no idea why I was in your car, but got cheesed off with the constant bleeping every time it hit 4000rpm...
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Lazydocker on 19 August 2015, 19:37:37
Double check you haven't broken a spring. The roads are shocking.

Checked spring when changed shock bushes. All good  :y

Does appear to be more on passenger side  :-\

And last time I proper thrashed that 2.2 was when I was trying (and failed) to keep that TVR honest the day we picked up that purple elite shed...

That was a looooong time ago  :o
I tried it after you LPG'd it, no idea why I was in your car, but got cheesed off with the constant bleeping every time it hit 4000rpm...

Too tight to pay for the higher spec vap :-X ::)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 19 August 2015, 20:32:29
Came with kit  :)

Always goes over 4k rpm for me  :D
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Lazydocker on 20 August 2015, 21:33:48
Came with kit  :)

Always goes over 4k rpm for me  :D

Didn't work when I tried it either :-[ ::)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 August 2015, 09:16:16
And last time I proper thrashed that 2.2 was when I was trying (and failed) to keep that TVR honest the day we picked up that purple elite shed...

Keeping a TVR honest in a desmond? :o

What was your strategy? Try desperately to keep it from going over the horizon whilst hoping it would break down or run out of fuel? ;D
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 21 August 2015, 14:11:31
And last time I proper thrashed that 2.2 was when I was trying (and failed) to keep that TVR honest the day we picked up that purple elite shed...

Keeping a TVR honest in a desmond? :o

What was your strategy? Try desperately to keep it from going over the horizon whilst hoping it would break down or run out of fuel? ;D
I knew traffic always hinders the first car the most, so I was doing surprisingly well for the first 3 or 4 miles...  ...when the traffic cleared a lot and I never saw him again.

So my strategy was to rag the nads of his 2.2 (more to see if I could lose tunnie in his V6, than keep up with the TVR), and accept I was always going to be a loser ;D
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 21 August 2015, 14:13:06
And last time I proper thrashed that 2.2 was when I was trying (and failed) to keep that TVR honest the day we picked up that purple elite shed...

Keeping a TVR honest in a desmond? :o

What was your strategy? Try desperately to keep it from going over the horizon whilst hoping it would break down or run out of fuel? ;D
I knew traffic always hinders the first car the most, so I was doing surprisingly well for the first 3 or 4 miles...  ...when the traffic cleared a lot and I never saw him again.

So my strategy was to rag the nads of his 2.2 (more to see if I could lose tunnie in his V6, than keep up with the TVR), and accept I was always going to be a loser ;D

That's what makes 2.2 so nice to drive, you aint going to win anything, so you don't bother.  ;D
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 21 August 2015, 14:14:44
That's what makes 2.2 so nice to drive, you aint going to win anything, so you don't bother.  ;D
You need more fire in your belly.  Just because you're the underdog doesn't mean its not worth trying ;)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 August 2015, 14:17:31
That's what makes 2.2 so nice to drive, you aint going to win anything, so you don't bother.  ;D
You need more fire in your belly.  Just because you're the underdog doesn't mean its not worth trying ;)
Yes, that's what I always say when I'm driving my 4 pot.  ;D
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 21 August 2015, 14:19:48
That's what makes 2.2 so nice to drive, you aint going to win anything, so you don't bother.  ;D
You need more fire in your belly.  Just because you're the underdog doesn't mean its not worth trying ;)
Yes, that's what I always say when I'm driving my 4 pot.  ;D
That may explain why you needed a new chassis ;D.  But I admire your passion for trying :y
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 August 2015, 14:22:40
That's what makes 2.2 so nice to drive, you aint going to win anything, so you don't bother.  ;D
You need more fire in your belly.  Just because you're the underdog doesn't mean its not worth trying ;)
Yes, that's what I always say when I'm driving my 4 pot.  ;D
That may explain why you needed a new chassis ;D.  But I admire your passion for trying :y
Yes, I was trying to keep up with a Megane doing 20 MPH at the time. That'll teach me. ::)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 21 August 2015, 14:23:29
That's what makes 2.2 so nice to drive, you aint going to win anything, so you don't bother.  ;D
You need more fire in your belly.  Just because you're the underdog doesn't mean its not worth trying ;)
Yes, that's what I always say when I'm driving my 4 pot.  ;D
That may explain why you needed a new chassis ;D.  But I admire your passion for trying :y
Yes, I was trying to keep up with a Megane doing 20 MPH at the time. That'll teach me. ::)
She had the advantage that when playing dodgems, she was bigger and heavier than you....
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 21 August 2015, 14:25:47
Actually, my bad, it was following a commute on a very cold day that you needed a new chassis, not the day you were racing a Renault
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 August 2015, 14:38:19
Actually, my bad, it was following a commute on a very cold day that you needed a new chassis, not the day you were racing a Renault

I think I was following a Renault on the cold day too..  across a sheet of ice that had been liberally sprinkled with water, although my mind was more concentrated on the futile application of full opposite lock at the time. Maybe there's a pattern emerging.. :o

The Renault won that time as I'd not been successful in destroying its' driveshafts. >:(
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 21 August 2015, 15:10:32
Ah, yes, a pattern forming...  ...didn't you used to own a Renault, and say unkind things about it.  Its all payback ;D
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Keith ABS on 22 August 2015, 07:40:59
  Doesnt everyone say unkind things about Renaults whether they own one or not ::)

Keith B
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: minifreek on 23 August 2015, 21:49:25
Anyhoo - back on topic...

Did you change the bush and has it made any difference to the knock you have..

I have the same problem at the moment...

I changed from air suspension back to MV6 shocks and it has improved but still feels loose, especially when in a right hand corner over a bump, I can feel the rear move then get grip... on left hand corner and a bump no problem..

I shall replace the rear subframe bushes and go from there I reckon...

Im not running Elite suspension, but APEX (-40mm) springs all round with Bilstein shocks front and BORG MV6 rear shocks but will be replaced with Bilstein when funds allow... the rear shocks are perfectly OK and have a good rebound etc... and no leaks...
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 23 August 2015, 22:38:42
Not yet, took me around 2 months to get around to changing those shock bushes  ;D

It's clearly from passenger side, spring is fine too, so I guess diff mounts or donut bushes.

However I thought rear donut bushes, stiffen'd things up handling/body roll wise but not known for causing drop-link type noise  :-\
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: 05omegav6 on 23 August 2015, 22:48:42
Subframe bushes clonk when knackered...

Rear drop links, such as they are, make cockroaches look fragile :D
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 23 August 2015, 23:25:16
Subframe bushes clonk when knackered...

Rear drop links, such as they are, make cockroaches look fragile :D

Looks promising they are the cause then. Been reading threads on changing them, bit confuddled though, you can put a stand on the subframe like this?

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/803897/Omega/Springs/SAM_1520.JPG)

With jack out of the way, releasing the subframe bush cover bolts, can the the bush be extracted with axle stand in position? Or does it need to be moved? To allow the arm to lower?

As the guide says just put stands in normal manner  :-\
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: 05omegav6 on 24 August 2015, 01:19:03
Back the car onto ramps/curb
Support subframe with a high reach jack
Tqke weight off bush
Undo all four bolts
Remove bush using preferred method
Slap new bushes in
Refit plate/bolts
Job jobbed :y
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Lazydocker on 24 August 2015, 07:39:18
You DON'T want the subframe to move ;)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 24 August 2015, 09:07:02
Back the car onto ramps/curb
Support subframe with a high reach jack
Tqke weight off bush
Undo all four bolts
Remove bush using preferred method
Slap new bushes in
Refit plate/bolts
Job jobbed :y

You DON'T want the subframe to move ;)

Thanks Chaps. Ramps it is.  :y

My Big jack should reach sub frame, in some position as that stand I think. Guessing not too much pressure....

Now just to find some time to do it.  :)

Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2015, 09:26:24
Finally got around to ordering these, when I went to order last week only 1 in stock. So 2 are on there way.  :)

Few questions:

1) What is the preferred method of removing old bush? Perhaps at this age, they might just fall out?  ;D

2) Do the new bushes have to be inserted in any particular way?

3) Worth greasing up and putting them in, or just as is?

4) The plate that supports the bush and surrounding area is rusty, worth slapping on some Hammerite Underbody Seal?

Might take a few pictures and make a guide.  :)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 22 September 2015, 10:45:31
Only feedback I've got personal experience of re: the above is don't use Hammerite/Waxoyl seal. It's not the best. Ok if you've got a brand new car (though it's known for flaking off) as you're onto fresh, rust-free metal. Apply it to an older car as 'protection' and you'll be trapping rust (and possibly moisture) under the surface. You'll be looking at a nice black, textured surface, unaware there's a sheet of rotten metal underneath.

Many other products have appeared since then. Rustbuster 121 Epoxy mastic for one


I've yet to replace my rear bushes, and will be doing so with a whole spare subframe I'll be acquiring, with a full stripdown and repaint, new bushes, handbrake etc..  :)
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2015, 12:21:54
Thanks  :y

I've still got some knocking at the back on rough roads, drive though a car park at slow speed with big pot holes its fine. But at speed on rough roads, there is knocking from passenger rear.  :-\

New shocks, as old ones where leaking anyway. Checked springs, all good. Rear bushes are original, so thought could do with a change.
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: EMD on 22 September 2015, 17:11:46
Thanks  :y

I've still got some knocking at the back on rough roads, drive though a car park at slow speed with big pot holes its fine. But at speed on rough roads, there is knocking from passenger rear.  :-\

New shocks, as old ones where leaking anyway. Checked springs, all good. Rear bushes are original, so thought could do with a change.

Snap  :( Although after a while say on a long run it disappears  ???
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: 05omegav6 on 22 September 2015, 17:46:17
That be exhaust related :y
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: TheBoy on 22 September 2015, 18:21:05
Perhaps at this age, they might just fall out?  ;D
Foreskin ear warmers. The middle may drop out...
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 22 September 2015, 19:33:33
 ;D ;D ;D

Worth doing other things I suggested?
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: biggriffin on 23 September 2015, 06:32:00
Finally got around to ordering these, when I went to order last week only 1 in stock. So 2 are on there way.  :)

Few questions:

1) What is the preferred method of removing old bush? Perhaps at this age, they might just fall out?  ;D

2) Do the new bushes have to be inserted in any particular way?

3) Worth greasing up and putting them in, or just as is?

4) The plate that supports the bush and surrounding area is rusty, worth slapping on some Hammerite Underbody Seal?

Might take a few pictures and make a guide.  :)

Do NOT not use grease or any oil based lubricant or silicone,wd40 to fit a,rubber bushes, use either washing up liquid or a water based lubricant (ky).
Title: Re: Still crashing a bit at the back
Post by: tunnie on 23 September 2015, 10:45:34
Fairy liquid it is then :)

Cheers  :y