Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 03 October 2015, 14:03:54
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2000 2.5 petrol estate
Had this car 10 weeks. There is a belt (?) squeal on start up, but it soon stops. Now I also observe a red light glimmering at bottom of speedo, but by the time I look down It has gone out so I cannot identify it. I suspect it is battery light. Alternator bearings? Possibly water pump or power steering pump bearings? Pleae advise. Mileage is 160,000.
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Check your earths and alternator connections.
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2000 2.5 petrol estate
Had this car 10 weeks. There is a belt (?) squeal on start up, but it soon stops. Now I also observe a red light glimmering at bottom of speedo, but by the time I look down It has gone out so I cannot identify it. I suspect it is battery light. Alternator bearings? Possibly water pump or power steering pump bearings? Pleae advise. Mileage is 160,000.
When the charge light on my V6 started to glimmer, I found that the positive connection to the battery was a bit warm. I managed to borrow a large set of crimps from work, squeezed the connection a little ..... sorted. :y
The belt squeal could just be that the belt is old & needs replacing.
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As Andy B says my first check
would be auxiliary belt and tensioner and then go from there.
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Either your alternator is on it's way out or the tensioner isn't tense enough and the belt is slipping when cold. :)
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Thanks for suggestions, chaps. I have had 3 tensioner pulley bearings fail on Omegas over the years, so I add that to the list of suspects. I suppose I should remove the auxiliary belt and see it I can detect any rough bearings. The car is due a cam belt and coolant change, so I shall look at all these things then.
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Either your alternator is on it's way out or the tensioner isn't tense enough and the belt is slipping when cold. :)
+1 :y
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Either your alternator is on it's way out or the tensioner isn't tense enough and the belt is slipping when cold. :)
+1 :y
Don't be so sure. Earths, etc, and indeed battery condition, can all play a part....
I had an omega that's always had a glimmer of a battery light at idle. It always charged and never caused an issue. Belt and idler etc were fine :y :y
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Correction! Took the car to Bath yesterday afternoon, light glimmered in daylight - it was the brake warning light. Looked at brake fluid level; it's half way up the reservoir. When I changed the fluid a month ago I left it full. Must top it up and watch it, meanwhile looking for leaks. Doesn't explain belt squeal noise though.
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Specsavers? :)
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Tensioner is dead easy to re-grease (or replace completely, of course) ping it apart with a blade, pack grease in there, bang back on. Practically a 5 minute job. :)
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When the belts get old they go hard, add a little condensation over night and you get a squeal
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Tensioner pulley is dead easy to re-grease (or replace completely, of course) ping it apart with a blade, pack grease in there, bang back on. Practically a 5 minute job. :)
Fixed for clarity...
Changing the tensioner itself involves removing/refitting two bolts on the side of the block above the alternator. Not exactly complex, but a different proposition to removing/renewing/refurbishing the pulley assembly ;)
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Specsavers? :)
Fair comment. Before it only came on at night, and then briefly, so I had not time to read the symbol. By day it was easy.
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Tensioner pulley is dead easy to re-grease (or replace completely, of course) ping it apart with a blade, pack grease in there, bang back on. Practically a 5 minute job. :)
Fixed for clarity...
Changing the tensioner itself involves removing/refitting two bolts on the side of the block above the alternator. Not exactly complex, but a different proposition to removing/renewing/refurbishing the pulley assembly ;)
Thanks. It will be coming off Wednesday when I change the cam belt kit. I should have a spare kicking around somewhere, I recently harvested 2 cam belt kits (both now reused) off dead cars, should have kept at least one of the tensioners.
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Tensioner pulley is dead easy to re-grease (or replace completely, of course) ping it apart with a blade, pack grease in there, bang back on. Practically a 5 minute job. :)
Fixed for clarity...
Changing the tensioner itself involves removing/refitting two bolts on the side of the block above the alternator. Not exactly complex, but a different proposition to removing/renewing/refurbishing the pulley assembly ;)
Ah, sorry, may be getting muddled, then. By tensioner I was referring to the pulley/bearing on the NS of the engine you have to slacken to replace/remove the aux belt. Mine was grumbling a bit, so replaced with a low mileage one, but then learned that these really want to be re-greased for longevity. If there's another tensioner that may be cause of a squeal, then I'm happy to go-a hunting, because I've got the same issue on startup as the OP. I was putting it down to a noisy timing belt, which I'd very much it rather not be. :)
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More info. I have changed the cam belt. During this operation I have replaced the aux belt tensioner. Glimmering light was the brake pad worn and fluid level light; fluid was low, have topped up. Belt still squeals, especially on start up, especially when throttle is blipped. If I release tension on aux belt. squealing stops. I suspect alternator bearings. When belt was off I span all aux belt driven items, all seemed OK. Any suggestions?
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In the maintenance guide, to change the alternator I need to remove the bagpipes, air cleaner and cruise control unit. I have done it on humbler (non cruise) V6 cars without removing any of these items. Do forum experts remove them?
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I did it just yesterday, on a dbw v6,
Took bagpipes out, and undertray off, that was all that was needed.
Arms are somewhat scratched now though, that top bolt is awkward!
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Changed my mind, don't think it is alternator now. Standing at front of the car looking back at the engine, noise appears to be coming from my right rather my left, so not alternator side. Furthermore noise is like metal scraping on metal, does not occur at steady idle or under steady load, occurs most on blipping the throttle. I now suspect power steering pump pulley scraping on something. I have changed this pulley following a bolt stuck in and my grinding the head off it. I feel it should be an engine rocking phenomenon, but cannot see what. Near PSP pulley is a SAI pipe, but that should rock with the engine.
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When I have a belt squeal I first of all remove the auxiliary belt all together and run the car briefly. if the noise goes away I know its auxiliary related. if it stays its cam belt related.
if its auxiliary related go around each pulley and spin them feeling for roughness and listening for oddness. also pull them in and out and feel for any play.
note also that the SAI piping runs very close the the pas pump and a/c clutch so id be checking theres no fouling there also
hth :y
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This morning I put the car over the pit and listened to the noise from below. It seemed to be coming from the alternator side. I had brought home a spare alternator and decided to change it after breakfast.
I read the guide, author said put a screwdriver against the alternator and the other end in your ear and check the noise was coming from the alternator. It was not. Oh.
At this point I decided that this Clacton PFL Omega is full of mischief. What was it up to?
I wondered if it could be the belt itself making the noise. Could 6 years in Portugal have dried it out?
Today I changed the belt. The noise has gone. Yippee!
Thanks to all for advice and patience.
Now I have to find where the brake fluid is going.
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My apologies to Andy B and Matrks DTM Calibi who suggested old belt early in this thread. MY excuse is that the noise did not suggest a belt squeal, it was too loud and metallic. I should have rumbled when I observed that it shrieked when I blipped the throttle, thus accelerating the belt and pulleys, but disappeared at constant speed.
I suffered a noisy cam belt 4 years ago. It was a Vx TC belt kit, bought from Bellinger Grove, Vauxhall main dealer. It whined, pitch varying with engine speed. Kit came in a plain box, belt had no lines on. I took it back for a replacement. I fitted the replacement, that whined too. I then bought a SKF kit from Autovaux, and that was fine. I suspect JamesV6CDX suffered similarly.
Belts are normally silent in operation and very reliable. Some are flat, some are V section, some are toothed, some are grooved. There is clearly lots of science in their composition to give grip but be quiet.
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The squealing is sorted, just leaves the glimmering light. I thought it must be trivial. Brake fluid reservoir level was low, so I topped it up. It is low again. I got under the car tonight, looking for the leak. No sign of fluid on any of the brakes, or brake lines. Only sign of brake fluid is below the clutch. There is a small gap at the bottom of the bell housing, and there is a damp patch there. Could it be clutch slave cylinder? I read that the concentric slave cylinders were bullet proof. I have mopped up around the hole and topped up the master cylinder again. Could it be clutch master cylinder, where would that leak to?
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.... There is a small gap at the bottom of the bell housing, and there is a damp patch there. Could it be clutch slave cylinder? I read that the concentric slave cylinders were bullet proof. I have mopped up around the hole and topped up the master cylinder again. Could it be clutch master cylinder, where would that leak to?
If you have brake fluid at the bottom of the bell housing I reckon you've found your leak. Never had a manual, but I think the master cylinder is above the pedal, which would make the fluid leak into the footwell somewhere :-\
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The squealing is sorted, just leaves the glimmering light. I thought it must be trivial. Brake fluid reservoir level was low, so I topped it up. It is low again. I got under the car tonight, looking for the leak. No sign of fluid on any of the brakes, or brake lines. Only sign of brake fluid is below the clutch. There is a small gap at the bottom of the bell housing, and there is a damp patch there. Could it be clutch slave cylinder? I read that the concentric slave cylinders were bullet proof. I have mopped up around the hole and topped up the master cylinder again. Could it be clutch master cylinder, where would that leak to?
If Omega slave cylinders are bullet proof, then they are the only ones.
If you have brake fluid dripping from the bellhousing then your leak is inside it: which means it can only be the slave or the piping to it. And the piping is the least likely.
The master cylinder will leak back along the linkage to the pedal.
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Thanks Nick. I was so pleased I had sorted this car, now I reckon I have a clutch job on my hands. Aren't these old Omegas fun! I suppose when I have the car apart I really should change the clutch plates and thrust bearing while I am about it. That will cost me more in parts than I paid for the car. Or do I scrap it and buy a better car?
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Get it changed, it's only 23/24 bolts and three clips ::)
LUK rep set, pressure plate/drive plate/slave (with bearing) or genuine... depending on price :y
Then, you'll know that the car is good to go... :y
If you want to go belts and braces, get new flywheel bolts and do the rear crank seal whilst you're at it :y
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Get it changed, it's only 23/24 bolts and three clips ::)
LUK rep set, pressure plate/drive plate/slave (with bearing) or genuine... depending on price :y
Then, you'll know that the car is good to go... :y
If you want to go belts and braces, get new flywheel bolts and do the rear crank seal whilst you're at it :y
Are they scrap once removed then Al :-\
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Prudent to replace given the damage caused if a reused one fails ;) Think they are also stretch bolts :-\
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Haynes does not mention any angle tightening bolts in the clutch section, Al. Are you talking DMF bolts?
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Haynes does not mention any angle tightening bolts in the clutch section, Al. Are you talking DMF bolts?
Yup :y
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I see lots of Omega clutch slave cylinders on e-bay and google; both petrol and diesel seem to be the same. Some come with bearing, presumably clutch thrust bearing. I have never had one fail before. Have any other members suffered this failure?
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.... There is a small gap at the bottom of the bell housing, and there is a damp patch there. Could it be clutch slave cylinder? I read that the concentric slave cylinders were bullet proof. I have mopped up around the hole and topped up the master cylinder again. Could it be clutch master cylinder, where would that leak to?
If you have brake fluid at the bottom of the bell housing I reckon you've found your leak. Never had a manual, but I think the master cylinder is above the pedal, which would make the fluid leak into the footwell somewhere :-\
I have found the clutch master cylinder. It is under the bonnet, behind the brake servo. I remember when I changed the clutch on my 3.2 last year I had to unplug the clutch hydraulic pipe to release the gearbox. It is under the scuttle . I can see it - it is not leaking. I am now confident my fluid leak is from the clutch slave cylinder.
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I see lots of Omega clutch slave cylinders on e-bay and google; both petrol and diesel seem to be the same. Some come with bearing, presumably clutch thrust bearing. I have never had one fail before. Have any other members suffered this failure?
Yup... first 3.2 had had a new clutch at some point between Devon and Cornwall and me buying it from the trader that bought it straight from service...
Bearing started of being a bit whiny in slow traffic before getting worse. It eventually exploded about 5 miles from first whine :o
In doing so it cracked the slave, broke several fingers on the pressure plate before punching the drive plate into the flywheel taking chunks out of that as well. Had that car repaired at Vauxhall... £1,300 inc vat bill, £800 ex vat was the flywheel.
As a result, I always change everything... the slave, the bearing, the pressure plate and the drive plate :y
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Thanks Al. Good advice, and I expect I shall follow it. It just goes against the grain to spend more on the parts than the car cost me. The car is tatty in appearance, and the rear windows do not open, yet I like the car. It is sweet to drive and the sound system is excellent.
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My intention was to enquire whether anyone has suffered a leaking clutch slave cylinder, with no symptons other than fluid loss. This is my first.
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I have, but on a Seat... symptoms are limited to a gradually crunchy gearchange after a cruise... ie slowing to a junction coming off a motorway slip road. The becomes worse as you are less able to put pressure into the slave causing you to pump the pedal just to change gear.
Ultimately, the pedal drops to the floor... changing gear is still possible, but relies on starting in gear and feathering the throttle to hit the correct rpms to change gears... actually quite satisfying when you get it right. Slave will only leak when you use it... so you could save it for starting off and emergencies in the short term :y
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I have, but on a Seat... symptoms are limited to a gradually crunchy gearchange after a cruise... ie slowing to a junction coming off a motorway slip road. The becomes worse as you are less able to put pressure into the slave causing you to pump the pedal just to change gear.
Ultimately, the pedal drops to the floor... changing gear is still possible, but relies on starting in gear and feathering the throttle to hit the correct rpms to change gears... actually quite satisfying when you get it right. Slave will only leak when you use it... so you could save it for starting off and emergencies in the short term :y
I have had a couple of cars whose hydraulic clutches failed; what went was the pressed steel lever linking the external slave cylinder to the thrust bearing. Lever cracked at the pivot. The cars were still driveable as you describe. What you cannot do is a hill start; this requires forward planning. I was once at Wallingford with a Peugeot 505 family estate full of relations when the clutch arm failed. I did not tell them and drove home to Somerset without a clutch; no-one noticed.
On this Omega the clutch is still working normally, but I am losing brake fluid and the loss appears to stop when the fluid level reached the bottom of the pipe to clutch. Something is dripping out of the bell housing, looks like brake fluid. Maybe what has failed is the coil of pipe to the slave, not the slave, but either way I need to remove the bell housing to investigate. Once there it would be daft not to replace all the clutch components, car is 15 years and 150,000 miles old.
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Sounds like a plan... :y
Incidentally, that is precisely why the clutch feed is above the brake fluid minimum level... An undetected brake leak will disable the clutch long before the lack of brakes kills you...
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Struggling to remove the gear lever bottom cover without damage. It's not the same as the 3.2. Pic follows I hope.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8atisz1x387gvya/gearLEVERlowerCOVER70%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/8atisz1x387gvya/gearLEVERlowerCOVER70%25.jpg?dl=0)
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Looks like both 3.2s I have done clutches on...
Centre flat part pulls down and the whole clip hypothetically pulls straight out... I say hypothetically because you will invariably break it (shit design which doesn't age well).
Clips can be replaced by cable ties if they do disintegrate on removal :y
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Now I see it. The tongue is a puller outer. I got rough with it and they all ame out without damage, though I lost one for a while. Pic follows if you are interested.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/by9gh1mwezmposd/gearLEVclip70%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/by9gh1mwezmposd/gearLEVclip70%25.jpg?dl=0)
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Once rubber boot is off, two spring clips and a metal rod is all that connects the linkage to the gear lever... Two bolts hold the bracket to the top of the box (13mm and a long extension from memory) :y
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Thanks for your help Al. This pic shows the clips I expected, as on my 3.2.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwkrlb4nlv622vd/3.2leverGAITER.70%25.JPG?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwkrlb4nlv622vd/3.2leverGAITER.70%25.JPG?dl=0)
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Pic no worky, but suspect someones been there before... my other '03 TVP estate had had three clutches in 80k.., and those clips don't look like they would take kindly to that frequency of removal ::)
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My TVP 3.2 had got through 4 clutches when I bid for it at Witney, also a flywheel and a propshaft. Cam belt changes at 89000 miles and 160,000 miles. I thought Abingdon had a heavy footed driver on the payroll, but perhaps they just drive them very hard. I reckon you're right, those clips had been replaced along the way. Sorry about the pics not working, they work when I click on them.
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About to remove the clutch fluid pipe from the master cylinder. Does this entail removing the scuttle? I can see it but access is awful. Cruise cable is in the way too. Does is uncouple at the centre joint?
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I don't recall pulling the scuttle... possibly the plenum plumbing on a v6 :-\
Long nose pliers and a steady hand iirc :y
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Thanks. I don't recall removing the scuttle on my 3.2 clutch job either. My 3.2 is in Enfield, but I have a 2.6 here, which looks quite as awkward. There are 3 brake pipes above the clutch master cylinder. I recall having to dig the spring clip out with a small screwdriver to release the clutch pipe. Last time I had fun getting the spring clip back in, and more fun engaging the clutch pipe on reassembly. The cruise cable is in the way too.
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Throttle cable be unclipped and tied to the offside bonnet strut if that heps clear a bit of space :y
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Removed the scuttle, helped a lot. Eventually dug the spring out, it pinged away, then managed to ease the pipe out. JamesV6CDX says a clutch job is 4 hours in comfort. I take off my hat to him. Is that your target time, Al?
Pic of clip holding in pipe follows.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sti3hc6f3a87wo1/clutchPIPEclip50%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/sti3hc6f3a87wo1/clutchPIPEclip50%25.jpg?dl=0)
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6-8 hours... always seems to be mid winter though ::) and I always seem to struggle relocating the prop shaft :-\
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There appears to be a holder for the clutch pipe on the bulkhead, see pic. I did not encounter it on the 3.2, but that had already had 4 clutch changes before I got it, I suppose I have to locate it and free the pipe from it. I only discovered it from this photo, taken with the wife's midget camera.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vze3hn72sk8e8g6/clutchPIPEHOLDER50%25.JPG?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/vze3hn72sk8e8g6/clutchPIPEHOLDER50%25.JPG?dl=0)
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Gearbox is now off. Satisfying puddle at bottom of bellhousing, no sign of oil from clutch centre. I cannot see any leak in pipe or joints, so I conclude fluid loss was caused by failure of slave cylinder.
Please advise - what is best source of clutch kit - friction plate and pressure plate, and concentric slave cylinder and thrust bearing. Best I have found is buyypartsby LUK short kit £108-80, and this e-bay man for slave cylinder and thrust bearing at £97.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/301337383661?dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fitm%2F301337383661
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For the love of Mary...
Terry, when shopping around, it pays to, er, shop around ::)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LUK-OE-Quality-CSC-Concentric-Slave-Cylinder-Bearing-OPEL-OMEGA-2-0-16V-94-03/231740158975?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3D82899e8272864296a91a7a8d239aea90%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D21%26sd%3D301337383661
I'll expect the change in my Christmas card :y
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Thanks Al. I'm not very good at this shopping around thing.
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Need to cross check the codes, but...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TWO-PIECE-CLUTCH-KIT-624310009-LUK-FITS-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-ETC-/361412010947?hash=item5425d5a3c3:g:3YMAAOSwPe1UJYDB :y
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Thanks, Al. Not the same code in main line as on the box, nor the same as the Buypartsby item. Also the man wants collection in person, and he lives in Colchester. I have no idea how inerchangeable Omega clutch kits; it may be, like V6 cam belt kits, completely so.
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Thanks, Al. Not the same code in main line as on the box, nor the same as the Buypartsby item. Also the man wants collection in person, and he lives in Chichester. I have no idea how inerchangeable Omega clutch kits; it may be, like V6 cam belt kits, completely so.
Fixed for geography, but it's a valid observation...
Also worth noting, the slave usually includes the bearing but it is available as a separate part, so be certain of what you're ordering :y
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New clutch fitted, new slave cylinder and thrust bearing fitted. Had fun replacing the spring clip in the clutch master cylinder. Steady hand and long nosed pliers did not do it for me. I gradually recalled how I had done it last time. I sawed and enlarged by filing a slot in the magnetic head of a pick up tool, then inserted the spring in the slot and inserted it into the groove in the master cylinder. This got it half way in, then I easily pushed it home with a long socket extension too.
Gearbox is not back on yet. I have been distracted by son Ben backing his 2.2 into a skip and smashing RH light units.