Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Jimbob on 13 October 2015, 19:39:23

Title: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Jimbob on 13 October 2015, 19:39:23
On the Zafira, DPF regens have occured / been noticed 'occasionally'

Ove the last month or 2, they have happened at the same place on my way home from work, roughy every 6-700 miles, bizarrely about 70 miles into the tankful.

Im sure it never used to happen this often, I know it has done it 3 times, over the last 3 tanks of fuel.  maybe more.

This doesnt sound right, car usage hasnt changed, maintenance hasnt changed, used same garage.

Car now at 95k ish.

Any ideas?  anyone de-dpf'd?  ease / legalities / programming?

Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Crazycarzowner on 13 October 2015, 19:45:58
Not allowed to de-DPF anymore as new MOT regulations came into effect I think in December 2014  :-\ :-\ :-\

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: omegod on 13 October 2015, 20:01:28
I'm sure they can be " emptied " but the casing left in situ then it's deleted from the ecu, similar to cat
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: STEMO on 13 October 2015, 20:04:23
Round here, we've got a friendly mechanic and a friendly mot tester.  :)

Jimbob..usage or maintenance might not have changed, but after 95K I'll bet the filter has. They don't last forever.
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: STEMO on 13 October 2015, 21:07:44
Found this on Hypermiler:

How long should a DPF last?

The lifespan of a DPF is very hard to determine. There are many factors to take into account however we would hedge our bets on expecting a DPF for the average motorist to last in excess of 70k miles from new. For the occasional city driver this maybe considerably sooner due to increased soot levels and the ability for the DPF to regenerate under normal driving conditions.

http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/technical/the-diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-faq
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 October 2015, 21:13:10
Also, worth finding out if you have dpf fluid and whether it's low or not (though I think it throws a code if it does). I on,y found out about this fluid the other day on a shitroen.
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: ronnyd on 13 October 2015, 22:16:52
Also, worth finding out if you have dpf fluid and whether it's low or not (though I think it throws a code if it does). I on,y found out about this fluid the other day on a shitroen.
Future DIL has a C5, this has DPF issues from time to time but it has just passed it,s MOT this week. The removal of the item  ;) was mooted but not taken up on. They live in the North East.
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 13 October 2015, 22:54:08
I believe you can remove dpf, use a hammer and metal rod to empty it by breaking the core then put it back and have someone code it out on the ecu.

However, I would say it creates a very negative environmental effect in terms of emissions. If that bothers you.

Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: serek on 13 October 2015, 23:11:52
Also, worth finding out if you have dpf fluid and whether it's low or not (though I think it throws a code if it does). I on,y found out about this fluid the other day on a shitroen.
no fluid on 1.9 cdti engines , dry dpf
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: serek on 13 October 2015, 23:13:55
On the Zafira, DPF regens have occured / been noticed 'occasionally'

Ove the last month or 2, they have happened at the same place on my way home from work, roughy every 6-700 miles, bizarrely about 70 miles into the tankful.

Im sure it never used to happen this often, I know it has done it 3 times, over the last 3 tanks of fuel.  maybe more.

This doesnt sound right, car usage hasnt changed, maintenance hasnt changed, used same garage.

Car now at 95k ish.

Any ideas?  anyone de-dpf'd?  ease / legalities / programming?
would say get check what condition is your DPF with tech2 or other diagnostic tool, maybe force regeneration
that should help for some time

Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 14 October 2015, 00:17:44
Also, worth finding out if you have dpf fluid and whether it's low or not (though I think it throws a code if it does). I on,y found out about this fluid the other day on a shitroen.
no fluid on 1.9 cdti engines , dry dpf

Ah ok. Thought it may be worth mentioning  :y
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Jimbob on 14 October 2015, 08:01:05
Cheers all, some good food for thought there, laptop on charge to see what the com of op reports for the dpf, sure it has a remaining life percentage, but whether its reported correctly is another matter.

Why would a force regen help when it does it itself often enough?  I accept it may, but the logic defeats me currently?
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Jimbob on 14 October 2015, 08:02:35
Any MOT Testers care to say how they are checked?  to my knowledge removal is smashing the innards out and a reprog rather than replaing with plain pipe?
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Jimbob on 14 October 2015, 08:23:36
If to be beleived this looks ok :

Engine Oil Change Warning   Inactive
Remaining Oil Life   65%
Engine Oil Change Warning (Time)   Inactive
Remaining Oil Life   66%
Engine Oil Change Warning (Driving Cycles)   Inactive
Remaining Driving Cycles   94%
Engine Oil Change Warning (Cold-Start Cycles)   Inactive
Remaining Cold-Start Cycles   93%
Engine Oil Change Warning (Distance)   Inactive
Remaining Distance   65%
Engine Oil Change Warning (Soot- Weighted Crankshaft Revolutions)   Inactive
Remaining Soot-Weighted Crankshaft Revolutions   75%
Engine Oil Change Warning (DPF Regenerations)   Inactive
Remaining DPF Regenerations   67%
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Jimbob on 14 October 2015, 08:24:52
and for completeness  : (Im not sure 26% satuartion in 145km is right....unless dpf not fully regenning?)

Battery Voltage   14.2 V
Ignition Status   On  12V
Starter Relay   Inactive
Fuel Pump Relay   Active
APP at Idle Position (Accelerator Pedal Position)   Active
APP Sensor 1 (Accelerator Pedal Position)   0.96 V
APP Sensor 2 (Accelerator Pedal Position)   0.47 V
Calculated Pedal Position   0%
Desired Engine Idle Speed   800 RPM
Engine Speed   801 RPM
Camshaft Speed   400 RPM
Idle Speed Modified   No
Calculated Air Flow   42 kg/h
Mass Air Flow Sensor   49 kg/h
Ambient Temperature   6 °C
Charge Air Temperature   40 °C
Charge Air Temperature   2.46 V
Coolant Temperature   62 °C
Coolant Temperature   2.07 V
Oil Level   Normal
Oil Pressure   Normal
Engine Oil Level Status   Okay
B1S1 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)   88 °C
B1S1 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)   1.0 V
B1S2 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 2)   72 °C
B1S2 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 2)   1.0 V
Barometric Pressure   102 kPa
Barometric Pressure   4.00 V
Boost Pressure Command   104 kPa
Boost Pressure   102 kPa
Boost Pressure   1.64 V
Pulse Ratio Boost Pressure Solenoid Valve   59%
EGR Position Commanded (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)   100%
EGR Pulse Ratio (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)   4%
Swirl Level Control Solenoid Valve Pulse Ratio   89%
Throttle Position PWM Servo Signal   5%
Desired Common Rail Fuel Pressure   27.42 MPa
Common Rail Fuel Pressure   28.13 MPa
Common Rail Fuel Pressure   1.11 V
Rail Pressure Control Solenoid Valve PWM   0%
Rail Pressure Control Solenoid Valve Current   0.00 a
Fuel Metering Solenoid Valve PWM   36%
Fuel Metering Solenoid Valve Current   1.40%
Fuel Temperature   18 °C
Fuel Temperature   3.40 V
A/C Information Switch   Active
A/C Cutoff Mode (Air Conditioning)   System OK
A/C Pressure (Air Conditioning)   1.095 kPa
A/C Pressure (Air Conditioning)   1.6 V
A/C Relay (Air Conditioning)   Active
Brake Switch 1   Inactive
Brake Switch 2   Inactive
Clutch Switch   Active
Vehicle Speed   0 km/h
Vehicle Speed in Cruise Control Range   Inactive
Vehicle Acceleration   0.0 m/s2
Cruise Control Tip Switch   Inactive
Cruise Control   Inactive
Engine Torque   17 Nm
Torque Control   Inactive
Requested Torque (Traction Control)   0 Nm
Remaining Oil Life   65%
Engine Oil Change Warning   Inactive
Malfunction Indicator (MI)   Off
Service Vehicle Soon (SVS) Indicator   Off
Glow Time Relay   Inactive 12V
Glow Time Telltale   Off 12V
Diagnosis Glow Time Relay   Active
Main Injection Timing   0.0 °CA
Final Fuel Injection Amount   8.6 mm3/stk
Differential Pressure Diesel Particulate Filter   -2 kPa
Differential Pressure Diesel Particulate Filter   0.41 V
Diesel Particulate Filter Saturation   26%
Dist. Since Last DPF Regeneration (Distance)   145 km
DPF Regeneration   0%
Odometer Value   152.724 km
Tank Sensor   0.00 V
Fan Control 1   Inactive
Fan Control 2   Inactive
Fan Control 3   Inactive
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: b4ndit on 14 October 2015, 08:43:19
DPF is only checked on mot as to being present  :y
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Jimbob on 14 October 2015, 08:47:28
Should also add on the 1st set of data....7000 miles into an oil change, so would beleive the cars interpretation of remaining oil life, so presume DPF life also accurateish.

at 7000 miles im starting to think about doing my oil change!  but the car claims to be happy with it even if im not!
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 14 October 2015, 10:29:00
Quote
Engine Oil Change Warning (DPF Regenerations)   Inactive
Remaining DPF Regenerations   67%

I interpret that to be the percentage of DPF regenerations before it warns for an oil change, not DPF life. I assume each DPF regen potentially contaminates the oil with fuel, so it's a factor in the oil change calculation. :-\
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Lazydocker on 14 October 2015, 10:38:07
For what it's worth, one of my vans was running with no fluid (Peugeot so fluid dpf, not dry like yours) for well over 25k, without my knowledge, due to damage. I have just replaced the reservoir, pump and fluid bag, had a chat with the Pug version of Tech 2 and all is good even though the ECU was saying it was toast!

A forced regen is worth trying IMO. Removal is not as cheap as I first thought (I was looking into it as an option on said van).

Another possibility that I have seen banded about (I accept no credit/responsibility for this, just seen online from a few different forum sources) is to take it off and pressure wash it, then let it dry before refitting.
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 October 2015, 10:45:20
Check the usual's:

EGR state
MAP sensor
DPF pressure sensor pipe (I have now replaced mine with rubber from the metal part right to the sensor as it split slightly further up....and it only ever flagged an occasional exhaust temperature sensor code)

Mine is on 148k miles and the DPF is regenerating about every 800 miles or so, when new it was about every 1000miles but, they do slowly fill with ash.

Alternative is a visit and we pop it off, cut the top off , remove internals, seam weld back together and refit ready for programming out by a-n-other.

Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: henryd on 14 October 2015, 12:15:23
Any MOT Testers care to say how they are checked?  to my knowledge removal is smashing the innards out and a reprog rather than replaing with plain pipe?

Visual check to make sure its there(or looks like it is ::)) and a normal diesel test which it'll piss through with or without its innards :y
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: STEMO on 14 October 2015, 12:19:01
Any MOT Testers care to say how they are checked?  to my knowledge removal is smashing the innards out and a reprog rather than replaing with plain pipe?

Visual check to make sure its there(or looks like it is ::)) and a normal diesel test which it'll piss through with or without its innards :y
AFAIK it's only a smoke test.

The only way I would have diesel car, and I must admit the mpg makes one attractive, is if it was on lease. No worries about DPF problems then.
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: KSR on 14 October 2015, 12:45:23
remove it and get the car re mapped.

They cant check it if they cant see it or are too stupid enough which most of them are to see that its been removed.

If its done properly very unlikely youd get a fail. same stuff coming out the exhuast with ot without it.
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: serek on 14 October 2015, 13:37:57
and for completeness  : (Im not sure 26% satuartion in 145km is right....unless dpf not fully regenning?)

Battery Voltage   14.2 V
Ignition Status   On  12V
Starter Relay   Inactive
Fuel Pump Relay   Active
APP at Idle Position (Accelerator Pedal Position)   Active
APP Sensor 1 (Accelerator Pedal Position)   0.96 V
APP Sensor 2 (Accelerator Pedal Position)   0.47 V
Calculated Pedal Position   0%
Desired Engine Idle Speed   800 RPM
Engine Speed   801 RPM
Camshaft Speed   400 RPM
Idle Speed Modified   No
Calculated Air Flow   42 kg/h
Mass Air Flow Sensor   49 kg/h
Ambient Temperature   6 °C
Charge Air Temperature   40 °C
Charge Air Temperature   2.46 V
Coolant Temperature   62 °C
Coolant Temperature   2.07 V
Oil Level   Normal
Oil Pressure   Normal
Engine Oil Level Status   Okay
B1S1 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)   88 °C
B1S1 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)   1.0 V
B1S2 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 2)   72 °C
B1S2 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 2)   1.0 V
Barometric Pressure   102 kPa
Barometric Pressure   4.00 V
Boost Pressure Command   104 kPa
Boost Pressure   102 kPa
Boost Pressure   1.64 V
Pulse Ratio Boost Pressure Solenoid Valve   59%
EGR Position Commanded (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)   100%
EGR Pulse Ratio (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)   4%
Swirl Level Control Solenoid Valve Pulse Ratio   89%
Throttle Position PWM Servo Signal   5%
Desired Common Rail Fuel Pressure   27.42 MPa
Common Rail Fuel Pressure   28.13 MPa
Common Rail Fuel Pressure   1.11 V
Rail Pressure Control Solenoid Valve PWM   0%
Rail Pressure Control Solenoid Valve Current   0.00 a
Fuel Metering Solenoid Valve PWM   36%
Fuel Metering Solenoid Valve Current   1.40%
Fuel Temperature   18 °C
Fuel Temperature   3.40 V
A/C Information Switch   Active
A/C Cutoff Mode (Air Conditioning)   System OK
A/C Pressure (Air Conditioning)   1.095 kPa
A/C Pressure (Air Conditioning)   1.6 V
A/C Relay (Air Conditioning)   Active
Brake Switch 1   Inactive
Brake Switch 2   Inactive
Clutch Switch   Active
Vehicle Speed   0 km/h
Vehicle Speed in Cruise Control Range   Inactive
Vehicle Acceleration   0.0 m/s2
Cruise Control Tip Switch   Inactive
Cruise Control   Inactive
Engine Torque   17 Nm
Torque Control   Inactive
Requested Torque (Traction Control)   0 Nm
Remaining Oil Life   65%
Engine Oil Change Warning   Inactive
Malfunction Indicator (MI)   Off
Service Vehicle Soon (SVS) Indicator   Off
Glow Time Relay   Inactive 12V
Glow Time Telltale   Off 12V
Diagnosis Glow Time Relay   Active
Main Injection Timing   0.0 °CA
Final Fuel Injection Amount   8.6 mm3/stk
Differential Pressure Diesel Particulate Filter   -2 kPa
Differential Pressure Diesel Particulate Filter   0.41 V
Diesel Particulate Filter Saturation   26%
Dist. Since Last DPF Regeneration (Distance)   145 km
DPF Regeneration   0%
Odometer Value   152.724 km
Tank Sensor   0.00 V
Fan Control 1   Inactive
Fan Control 2   Inactive
Fan Control 3   Inactive
your DPF  need forced regen. as atm its blocked thats why you have so many regen try recently
what diagnostic tool you use ?
Title: Re: DPF impending doom?
Post by: Jimbob on 14 October 2015, 14:21:43
I've a Chinese op. Com. Sure it can do it. I'll get it hot and have a go