Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: hoj on 15 October 2015, 01:09:35
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Had new discs fitted had new pads fitted had new droplinks fitted had new tyres fitted had tracking done
When touching the brake the steering wheel pulls to the left and car feels like its steering left and right/wandering had callipers looked at and recent MOT all is fine
Any ideas anyone?
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Get your money back from the twait that did the tracking and get the geometry set up properly :y
If that doesn't sort it, were the front bolts torqued with the wheels on the ground?
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With the front of the car up on ramps (weight on front wheels) get a pry bar or similar in between the rear wishbone bushes and the chassis to see if they is any play ;)
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Check tyre pressures are balanced...
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Front wishbone bushes are the most likely cause. How old are the wishbones?
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Wishbones. Speak from experience. If at all possible, build yourself a set from Polys, Vx bushes and an old, repainted set of wishbones. If time's not on your side for about the same price you can get a standard set from AGP (All German Parts)
May well be worth a re-check (should be free) on the geometry after you've done the work. Things may have altered dramatically, or barely at all. :)
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Intermediate Steering Arm?
Lower arm bushes?
Is it diving on one corner when you brake?
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.....
Any ideas anyone?
Take it to Radcliffe Moor Rd Tyres
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Are they good Andy it's been tracked at Kay St in Bury
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Worn wishbone bushes or a worn steering idler arm can both cause symptoms as described.
The idler arm is easy to check but the wishbone bushes are hidden away inside the subframe and it is quite common for them to be completely shot.
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Are they good Andy it's been tracked at Kay St in Bury
I've always been happy with them, they seem to know what they're doing & are reasonably priced for tyres etc.
I fell out with ATS a while ago and I wouldn't use Kwik Fit
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Just had new idler arm still the same
Wishbones it is then next
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Who diagnosed the idler? Bushes don't need much checking... pry bar for the horizontal ones, visual for the vertical bushes :y
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Tracking is a waste of time and money, full geometry it required on these!
As for random part replacing... Get it diagnosed properly. My money is on wishbone bushes (probably front) but it needs checking properly before replacing parts.
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Idler was the last thing on your list to check, to be honest, as Al says, who diagnosed the idler? Also, assuming yours was an original genuine idler, and the replacement is a pattern, it'll want to come off straight away, or will fail very soon, requiring a genuine GM idler putting back on, and they're £99. Ouch.
Wishbones. Wishbones, and wishbones :)
I've had it personally, it's the first thing to go on these. Ideally fit poly bush on the front one to eliminate the problem effectively for good. :)
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The idler arm was seen by a mechanic I use there was definitely play in it I saw it
Wishbones are coming soon so I'll know when they'redone if its finally sorted
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Been told I should get new bolts (pinch bolts)
Anyone know what size please
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Been told I should get new bolts (pinch bolts)
Anyone know what size please
By whom?
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Err a garage
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There are pinch bolts that clamp the ball joints in the bottom of the McPherson struts.
I have changed a few sets of wishbones over the last 15 years and haven't had to replace any pinch bolts.
They have a fine thread - they may be a standard size but I would get them from Vauxhall just to save time.
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Likewise... only replace if rotten. Same with wishbone bolts... :y
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Err a garage
Same garage that failed to spot the knackered wishbone bushes presumably...
Will they be fiiting them as well? ::)
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This came up a while ago, re: pinch bolts. Now, I'm not saying don't change them, in fact I did, purely because I refurbed my front suspension, so all bolts got a nice coat of oem-style silver paint on them. However, in theory, a length of wooden dowel would work as a pinch bolt, the condition of the pinch bolt is possibly the most redundant component on the car's suspension.
Common thought is it is 'holding the front suspension together'. Look at the design of the suspension. If you remove the pinch bolt completely nothing happens. There is a big spring and the weight of the car pushing down, and the wishbone/balljoint wanting to spring upward. If you've ever tried to change a wishbone by yourself you'll know how much aggro can be had in trying to push the wishbone downwards enough to release the balljoint from its home, where the pinbolt sits. The purpose of the pinchbolt is to stop the wishbone 'popping' out of the steering knuckle, but in reality, unless you do lots of rallying, that's not going to happen pootling round town/down the A123.
As said above by Al/Harris... replace only if completely rotten, to the point the wishbone is actually knocking up and down, but I've yet to see that in the last 11 years.
Oh, final - vital - point, please make sure the mechanic nips up the wishbone bolts with the weight on the car, otherwise the rubber bush will tear and you'll be buying yourself new wishbones and paying to have them fitted before you can say 'bad mechanic' :y
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There are pinch bolts that clamp the ball joints in the bottom of the McPherson struts.
I have changed a few sets of wishbones over the last 15 years and haven't had to replace any pinch bolts.
They have a fine thread - they may be a standard size but I would get them from Vauxhall just to save time.
If you look at this sort of pinchbolt, the unthreaded portion locates in a groove in the ballpoint. This is necessary to stop the balljoint pulling out of the strut. Using a standard bolt in this design is very dangerous. Even if the bolt is correctly tightened it is still possible for the balljoint to dislodge. I have seen this many times, and there was always further damage.
I haven't replaced the pinchbolts on mine, but I did examine them carefully before refitting them. You're not just looking at the threads, but for wear in the shank or if the bolt is bent.
James, the weight of the car will easily overcome the springiness of the wishbone bushes. Add in a little steering lock, and the assembly will self-dismantle. I've recovered enough incidents like this to know that a ratchet strap around the wishbone and lower spring cup is vital before you even consider moving the car. And even then it's a slow winch job, using as little steering as possible.
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As Nick and Harris say, the issue is heavy wear on the pinchbolt, ie: it's not the same diameter it was new, hence a loose fit, irrespective of how tight you do it.
I think I'm just feeling a bit cautious and whenever I see 'a new pinchbolt' and things similar appear on invoices it's - dare I say it - a way of (some) garages getting a few unnecessary quid on the bill.
Again, as Nick says, if a new pinchbolt is the order of the day, then make sure it's the right one, not just any old nut n bolt. The shank
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I think I'm just feeling a bit cautious and whenever I see 'a new pinchbolt' and things similar appear on invoices it's - dare I say it - a way of (some) garages getting a few unnecessary quid on the bill.
On an Escort, Fiesta or the small Peugeot/Citroens I would order new bolts before starting the job. This is because I've never managed to the Ford ones out undamaged, and have seen far too many French cars with destroyed wishbones after suspension work. The cost of new Escort bolts is trivial at about £2 each.
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Fair enough :)
Just seen too many threads of relative newbies to Omegas have, eg: handling issues, get tracking done... then have droplinks replaced, then tracking done again, then new tyres, and so on, before coming here and being given the right diagnosis. Not badmouthing all mechanics, as I say "a way of (some) garages getting a few unnecessary quid on the bill." so not badmouthing the trade as a whole :) Hope OP is sorted soon. :)
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There are pinch bolts that clamp the ball joints in the bottom of the McPherson struts.
I have changed a few sets of wishbones over the last 15 years and haven't had to replace any pinch bolts.
They have a fine thread - they may be a standard size but I would get them from Vauxhall just to save time.
If you look at this sort of pinchbolt, the unthreaded portion locates in a groove in the ballpoint. This is necessary to stop the balljoint pulling out of the strut. Using a standard bolt in this design is very dangerous. Even if the bolt is correctly tightened it is still possible for the balljoint to dislodge. I have seen this many times, and there was always further damage.
I haven't replaced the pinchbolts on mine, but I did examine them carefully before refitting them. You're not just looking at the threads, but for wear in the shank or if the bolt is bent.
James, the weight of the car will easily overcome the springiness of the wishbone bushes. Add in a little steering lock, and the assembly will self-dismantle. I've recovered enough incidents like this to know that a ratchet strap around the wishbone and lower spring cup is vital before you even consider moving the car. And even then it's a slow winch job, using as little steering as possible.
The clamping action of the pinch bolt needs to be enough to stop any movement in normal use. If there is movement then the parts will wear very quickly.
The location groove is mainly there to align the parts when they are assembled but it does provide a useful last gasp safety net. If there is sign of wear or damage to the bolt then you need to check that the ball joint is still a snug fit in the bottom of the McPherson strut.
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I thought the purpose of the pinch bolt is to ensure the turning motion is accommodated in the ball joint, not in the taper pin in wishbone. I thought it was a fairly high torque nut. What is the torque on it?
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I thought the purpose of the pinch bolt is to ensure the turning motion is accommodated in the ball joint, not in the taper pin in wishbone. I thought it was a fairly high torque nut. What is the torque on it?
60mn off memory, but might only be 45nm :-\
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At last all done and dusted
Stops straight drives straight
Now to see the guys that did the tracking and bollock them
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At last all done and dusted
Stops straight drives straight
Now to see the guys that did the tracking and bollock them
Who sorted it for you?
I guess you're going back to Kay Street to hand the bollocking out ::)
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How much to put it right.Dean.
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I bought another 2.6 Elite in August; according to its history Vauxhall fitted a new steering idler earlier this year and did a 4 wheel on it. The steering wheel was atrocious - the spokes were about 11 / 5 o'clock and it pulled slightly to the n/s. Assuming it hadn't been played with since, doesn't say much for the VX garage who did it...👎 The n/s front tyre was excessively worn on the inside. I had a fresh 4 wheel done (not by VX); the rear toe on the n/s was out, which was adjusted after heat to free off the track control arm and the front toe was out (toeing out). The camber was ok. Dispite this, the steering wheel was still slightly out (10 /4 o'clock) and it still pulled to the left. Not happy, I went back and stayed whilst it was done again - I even asked to check the position of the steering wheel after it had been clamped. I watched whilst every adjustment was made, all now in the green, and I was even invited to do the final rotation of the steering wheel to ensure the arrows on the computer screen moved exactly to the right position. I can only presume a lot more care was taken after I complained and possibly because I stressed I wanted it 100%. It now drives nice and straight, no pulling, and the steering wheel is perfect👍. The equipment used was Hawk Eye. Just shows how important the correct alignment is on the Omega, and having someone who is prepared to put the effort in and more importantly knows how to use the equipment.....
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Amen to that :y
You can drive a bus through the green settings :o
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Maybe so, but the difference between green and red obviously made a big difference to how my Omega drives and steers. It didn't take much to move the settings from red to green, but the difference in the position of the steering wheel and eliminating the pulling was a lot.
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Just how horrible or pleasurable the Omega is to drive is down to a gnats hair on the machine... Get it right however, and people are dumbfounded at the difference...
Enjoy your new found driving bliss :y
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I know I have too many Omegas (or so my 'better' half keeps reminding me), and I have just sold one 3.2 Elite as well......but I had to get this 2.6 Elite, because of its lovely condition, superb service history and it was cheap! Also, it was black, which I think suits the Omega and you don't see that many in that colour.....
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Worn wishbone bushes or a worn steering idler arm can both cause symptoms as described.
The idler arm is easy to check but the wishbone bushes are hidden away inside the subframe and it is quite common for them to be completely shot.
Huh? they must have moved 'em when they built mine. :-\ :y
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I know I have too many Omegas (or so my 'better' half keeps reminding me), and I have just sold one 3.2 Elite as well......but I had to get this 2.6 Elite, because of its lovely condition, superb service history and it was cheap! Also, it was black, which I think suits the Omega and you don't see that many in that colour.....
Which, as you will know, is the GT colour. :y
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I know I have too many Omegas (or so my 'better' half keeps reminding me), and I have just sold one 3.2 Elite as well......but I had to get this 2.6 Elite, because of its lovely condition, superb service history and it was cheap! Also, it was black, which I think suits the Omega and you don't see that many in that colour.....
The best colour :)
OP, well chuffed you're sorted, that's the most costly job now sorted. (costly in that, it can cost you four new tyres every 6 months)