Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 26 October 2015, 12:54:11
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This question relates to my 2000 registered BMW E39 530d, which is a commonrail 2.9 litre Turbo Diesel Straight 6 lump + Slushbox, which I've had for just under a month. 156,000 Miles.
For the first two weeks of ownership I drove around really carefully, only using about half of the throttle travel, and didn't notice any problem - a little amount of throttle returns good torque/pull.
In the last week however I have done some longer runs, and gone for a couple of overtakes etc - and having opened her up fully, I have encountered a problem.
The best way I can describe it, is that, driving along at say 50mph, you want to go for an overtake. You put your foot into the carpet. It kicks down, but then really refuses to pull at all, after just over 3,000 rpm. Take your foot off, to say half throttle, and it pulls much better than at full throttle.
Having experimented on a variety of roads, when there is a demand on the engine, it is struggling to get over 3,000 to 3,500 rpm. One one occasion, it blew off an intercooler pipe whilst struggling at 3,000 rpm, which made me suspect a turbo issue of some sort!
I read the initial codes (Its not ODB compliant, I've had to use the round connector under the bonnet) and found the following. (The MAF Code is likely to be me, I unplugged it to see if it would make a difference, which it didn't).
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E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T
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Date: 10/26/15 08:55:13 ECU: DDE40KW0 JobStatus: OKAY Variant: DDE40KW0
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RESULT: 4 errors in error memory !
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13573 glow device
Error frequency : 255 Logistic counter: 40
Error occured 1. times at:
Engine speed 849.15 1/min Coolant temperature 28.61 Grad C Einspritzmenge 10.24 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 379.52 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 229360.00 km
Error occured 2. times at:
Engine speed 849.15 1/min Coolant temperature 14.95 Grad C Einspritzmenge 12.29 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 379.52 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251280.00 km
Error occured 3. times at:
Engine speed 849.15 1/min Coolant temperature 14.95 Grad C Einspritzmenge 12.29 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 379.52 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251280.00 km
Error present Sporadic error Glow system - Glow-plug or Glow-plug relay
Errorcode: 35 05 28 FF FC 80 22 66 14 3F 59 98 80 22 52 18 3F 62 28 80 22 52 18 3F 62
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5232 boost pressure control
Error frequency : 16 Logistic counter: 12
Error occured 1. times at:
Engine speed 3096.90 1/min Coolant temperature 89.37 Grad C Einspritzmenge 37.38 mm^3 Boost pressure 2480.00 mbar Fehler aufgetreten bei 233410.00 km
Error occured 2. times at:
Engine speed 3896.10 1/min Coolant temperature 81.86 Grad C Einspritzmenge 50.69 mm^3 Boost pressure 2480.00 mbar
Fehler aufgetreten bei 251100.00 km
Error occured 3. times at:
Engine speed 3896.10 1/min Coolant temperature 81.86 Grad C Einspritzmenge 50.69 mm^3 Boost pressure 2480.00 mbar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251100.00 km
Error not present Sporadic error neg. deviation / Boost pressure to big
Errorcode: 14 70 0C 10 F8 20 7C BF 49 9B 5B 2D 20 9C B4 63 9B 62 16 20 9C B4 63 9B 62
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7728 Charge-air pressure control or charge-air pressure actuator
Error frequency : 2 Logistic counter: 12
Error occured 1. times at:
Engine speed 1648.35 1/min Coolant temperature 83.22 Grad C Einspritzmenge 27.65 mm^3 Boost pressure 992.00 mbar Fehler aufgetreten bei 241990.00 km
Error occured 2. times at:
Engine speed 3471.53 1/min Coolant temperature 94.15 Grad C Einspritzmenge 13.82 mm^3 Boost pressure 960.00 mbar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251120.00 km
Error not present Sporadic error Missing charge-air pressure tube
Errorcode: 1E 30 0C 02 F8 40 42 B6 36 3E 5E 87 40 8B C6 1B 3C 62 18 00 00 00 00 00 00
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256 air mass meter
Error frequency : 2 Logistic counter: 40
Error occured 1. times at:
Engine speed 849.15 1/min Coolant temperature 11.54 Grad C Einspritzmenge 10.75 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 373.49 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 241990.00 km
Error occured 2. times at:
Engine speed 0.00 1/min Coolant temperature 67.52 Grad C Einspritzmenge 25.09 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 18.07 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 250670.00 km
Error present Sporadic error Signal open circuit or short circuit to B- air mass flow to low
Errorcode: 01 00 28 02 FC 80 22 4D 15 3E 5E 87 10 00 9F 31 03 61 EB 00 00 00 00 00 00
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Having cleared the codes, I went for another drive.
When warm, I booted it at 40mph. The engine got just over 3,000 rpm, and died almost instantly, with "FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM" flashing on the computer.
It then refused to start at all, until the codes were cleared.
Between clearing the codes this morning, and it dying, the following codes were logged:
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E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T
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Date: 10/26/15 11:14:38 ECU: DDE40KW0 JobStatus: OKAY Variant: DDE40KW0
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RESULT: 4 errors in error memory !
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13573 glow device
Error frequency : 1 Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 849.15 1/min Coolant temperature 9.49 Grad C Einspritzmenge 15.36 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 379.52 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251490.00 km
Error present Glow system - Glow-plug or Glow-plug relay
Errorcode: 35 05 28 01 74 80 22 4A 1E 3F 62 3D 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
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4496 Rail-pressure plausibility
Error frequency : 2 Logistic counter: 39
Error occured 1. times at:
Engine speed 3121.88 1/min fuel pre-supply pressure 2.45 bar Einspritzmenge 54.28 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 542.17 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251490.00 km
Error occured 2. times at:
Engine speed 3121.88 1/min fuel pre-supply pressure 2.22 bar Einspritzmenge 15.36 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 132.53 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251490.00 km
Error present Sporadic error leakage Control deviation over engine speed too great
Errorcode: 11 90 27 02 7C 20 7D 99 6A 5A 62 3D 30 7D 8B 1E 16 62 3D 00 00 00 00 00 00
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2550 Rail pressure control at start
Error frequency : 9 Logistic counter: 39
Error occured 1. times at:
Engine speed 249.75 1/min
fuel pre-supply pressure 1.23 bar Einspritzmenge 24.58 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 18.07 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251490.00 km
Error occured 2. times at:
Engine speed 199.80 1/min fuel pre-supply pressure 1.22 bar Einspritzmenge 24.58 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 18.07 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251490.00 km
Error occured 3. times at:
Engine speed 174.83 1/min fuel pre-supply pressure 1.95 bar Einspritzmenge 25.60 mm^3 RPC rail pressure 0.00 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251490.00 km
Error not present Sporadic error Rail-pressure build up
Errorcode: 09 F6 27 09 78 10 0A 4D 30 03 62 3D 10 08 4C 30 03 62 3D 10 07 7A 32 00 62
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4704 Pre-supply pressure monitoring
Error frequency : 1 Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 224.78 1/min Air-temperature 17.00 Grad C Einspritzmenge 24.58 mm^3 fuel pre-supply pressure 1.31 bar Fehler aufgetreten bei 251490.00 km
Error present Pre-supply press.below min.value for eng.start
Errorcode: 12 60 28 01 74 04 09 55 30 52 62 3D 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
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I am thinking that maybe, the issue with this car, is one of the lift pumps failing? I think it's a common issue reading the interweb. There is one pump under the passenger floor area, and one in the tank. Apparently the one under the seat is quite a common failure, causing loss of performance etc.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts! :y
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I maybe wrong but did these not have a proplem with swirl flaps that affected performance :-\
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Not to my knowledge. There was an issue with flaps being sucked into the engine causing valve damage but not Performance issues.. And certainly not fuel system codes :y
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just replace inline fuel pump and fuel filter, would say do injector leak off test
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if memory serves, top gear had this problem on thier 530d endurance racer, ? was a tiny little part but buried right at the rear of the engine? something to do with fuel delivery and caused by using the wrong fuel? may be worth a look?
my mate 530d manual has now done 250k and never missed a beat, pulls like a steam train,very impressive motor
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if memory serves, top gear had this problem on thier 530d endurance racer, ? was a tiny little part but buried right at the rear of the engine? something to do with fuel delivery and caused by using the wrong fuel? may be worth a look?
my mate 530d manual has now done 250k and never missed a beat, pulls like a steam train,very impressive motor
Their 330d suffered a blown turbo. It was re-built but still wasn't running right, so they placed the injector rail (and injectors without the correct tool). IIRC, they just unbolted the rail and turned the engine over until it literally blew the injectors out of their holes, leaving 6 nice dents in the bonnet! ;D
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Sounds like the same problem my mates rangerover had,was the previously mentioned pump.
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It could just be a clogged fuel filter I'd start there.
I think the wiring to the fuel pressure sensor can also get chaffed causing an issue like this.
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First place to start when a diesel has performance issues is filters, and fuel lines, as a new problem being experienced with diesel's is bio-fuels growing sludge and blocking fuel line's.
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Diesel 'bug' is only an issue if you leave the car stood for long periods of time with less than a brimmed tank, or repeatedly use dubious fuel :y
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Diesel 'bug' is only an issue if you leave the car stood for long periods of time with less than a brimmed tank, or repeatedly use dubious fuel :y
It is becoming a common issue, with bio-diesel, fuel company's are very reluctant to publishes anything about it, dubious fuel is bleached, the bleach or acid that is used to remove the dye, kills the bacteria, is a common power loss on Volvo and scarnia's.
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Diesel 'bug' is only an issue if you leave the car stood for long periods of time with less than a brimmed tank, or repeatedly use dubious fuel :y
Possibility given that Jamester has just bought it, PO may have left it around a bit...
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Just for clarity... the day after I bought her.... full engine service, so Oil, all filters, etc.
When I changed the fuel filter, I filled the new filter up with the wynns diesel magic type stuff. It's also done 600 miles since on Shell V power diesel :y
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Semi blocked Intercooler?
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Further to my previous posts on this, a bit of an update -
I have found out that, the only time it completely cuts out and give the "fuel injection system error" is when the tank is quite low, eg range reading around 60 miles. I popped 5 gallons in today, and, whereas before, I could replicate the fault code / shut down by driving at high revs - I now cannot.
However, even with a full tank, performance is still not right, and the car is intermittently holding right back, between 3 and 4,000 rpm. It has on a couple of occasions also failed to start first time, with the range on about 100/150 miles.
I looked at the pre-supply pressure on the live data, with a decent amount of fuel in the tank. This value is supposed to be 4 bar. Mine was 3.6 to 3.7 bar, so under, but not enormously - this dropped to about 3 to 3.1 bar when revving stationary - whereas it's never supposed to drop below 3.8 bar even when driving at full chat.
SO I concluded the pressure was lower than it should be. So, so many forum posts suggested the pre supply pump under the car is the common cause of this fault. So I went to the lovely Euro Parts. They only had a "HAAS" one on the shelf, for about £70 with a discount code, and I bought this. I got back and fitted it, and the noise it made was AWFUL! Also, the pre supply pressure, whereas on the old pump was 3.7 bar, with the new one, it was 3.4 bar, dropping to 2.5 bar when given some revs!
So to cut a long story the new pump went straight back, as it's absolutely rubbish, and can be heard over the diesel engine! I now have a genuine pump ready to fit, but I haven't got around to it yet.
I am thinking I may also just do the one in the tank as well, for the sake of futureproofing. Hopefully then my issues will also go away.
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Best of luck with it James. You certainly have the ability to get it right! :y
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You've got an air leak somewhere in your fuel system. :)
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There was also an overboost code in one of the logs you posted. That might explain why it suddenly goes flat when you really boot it. Maybe the wastegate / vane actuator is sticking?
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Just out of curiosity was the fuel filter a genuine part. The reason I ask is that my son had similar symptoms after he had just serviced his diesel a while back. A few miles after it had been serviced it would not rev in the higher band, would cut out just as he was pulling away from a junction and would need the codes clearing before it would re-start etc etc.
He tried swapping out the valve in the fuel pressure rail, Swapping pumps etc etc but with no change. After advice from a fellow owner he bought a genuine part fuel filter and it came back to life again. It's been fine since then. Not a bmw by the way.
Not saying it is that but thought it worth a mention. :-\
Did it go ok when you bought it or have you never booted it prior to this to find out?
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I fitted the genuine pump today before work.
Pre supply pressure exactly the same. 3.7 bar dropping to 3.1 when revved. No codes stored.
Test drive - 15 mile spanking, went well.
Then from nowhere lost all guts. Felt like a 1 litre. Struggling to pull at all. After ten mins back to normal
2 new codes
Pre supply pressure too low
Boost pressure too big
Arrrrrgh!!!!!!!!!
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At least you now know why it was cheap ;)
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At least you now know why it was cheap ;)
Oooo Bitch! :o ::) ;D
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At least you now know why it was cheap ;)
Oooo Bitch! :o ::) ;D
Not at all :D the pessimist in me always presumes there's a catch somewhere ;)
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I fitted the genuine pump today before work.
Pre supply pressure exactly the same. 3.7 bar dropping to 3.1 when revved. No codes stored.
Test drive - 15 mile spanking, went well.
Then from nowhere lost all guts. Felt like a 1 litre. Struggling to pull at all. After ten mins back to normal
2 new codes
Pre supply pressure too low
Boost pressure too big
Arrrrrgh!!!!!!!!!
do you have number for those codes?
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The overboost error will cause "limp mode" until the ignition is turned off and on again. The car will feel horrifically underpowered when this happens.
This usually happens if the wastegate isn't opening quickly enough. It could be stiff or if vacuum operated you could have a vacuum leak or a faulty pressure converter. It could also be the adjustment of the wastegate (move the nuts on the threaded rod to ensure it's just closed when not being actuated).
I still suspect the fuel filter or a blockage in the fuel supply for the other issue.
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At least you now know why it was cheap ;)
And on that note.... Why it was sold with a brimmed tank of diesel!!!
The car only properly misbehaves (and logs codes) with less than quarter of a tank..
I'm starting to suspect the in-tank lift pump. As opposed to the inline pump under the car?
I just can't see a physical turbo problem. If there was a turbo fault, why does it fly at half throttle, but is less rapid at WOT?
I still think this is a fuel issue, and the turbo code secondary? It only ever logs a turbo code, (boost too big) when there is the fuel code (supply pressure too low).
I've been over the system and found no leaks.
I can only think of the in tank pump. What else will make the pre supply pressure drop away under revs?
Thanks chaps :y
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Serek, boost pressure code is 5232, pre supply fuel code is 4704 :y
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My level of Diesel engined car's is nil. However, I have experience of Turbo vehicles.
Check ALL hoses. Anything slightly weak can contract 'on boost' causing the ECU to see a problem.
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My level of Diesel engined car's is nil. However, I have experience of Turbo vehicles.
Check ALL hoses. Anything slightly weak can contract 'on boost' causing the ECU to see a problem.
Yes this is why I think it's something fairly simple like a weak joint somewhere. I had similar issues with my old Merc C250TD, which started and ran fine with a full tank or parked facing downhill, but didn't like starting and was down on power otherwise.
I don't know zip about Jame's BMW engine to be honest, but I replaced all the low pressure fuel pipes and seals on my Merc and that solved the problem. It cost about £60 but only because I changed the plastic pipes which had become hard and brittle. I probably could have got away with just changing all the O rings for just a couple of quid! ;)
On the Merc it was a quick and easy job and I reckon it's worth a try before spending out on new pumps etc, and just because you can't see a fuel leak that dosn't mean that air isn't leaking into the system. ;)
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The car only properly misbehaves (and logs codes) with less than quarter of a tank..
I'm starting to suspect the in-tank lift pump. As opposed to the inline pump under the car?
Sounds plausible. If it's sensitive to fuel level in the tank, it can't be anything much further upstream.
I just can't see a physical turbo problem. If there was a turbo fault, why does it fly at half throttle, but is less rapid at WOT?
As Jason says, it's because the ECU sees too much boost, and backs off the fuel quantity to a "get you home" value to protect the engine. At half throttle, the boot pressure is limited by your right foot, so no problem.
I can't see how this can be related to a fuel supply issue. I think you have two problems.
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Lift pump in the tank changed today.
Fuel pressure at idle has now risen to the expected 4 bar, not dropping below 3.5 even under demand. Which is correct operation (it was dropping under 2 bar!)
I've yet to road test but looking good (other than I stink of diesel!)
Ref the turbo possible issue, there are an array of vaccum pipes which feel very soft and in poor condition, I shall replace them all and report back.
Now starts first time too, whereas before she'd really struggle under quarter a tank :y
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Great news James!!
thing that gets me is its exactly the same symptoms as an Omega td when it gets to a quarter tank
lol :y
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Great news James!!
thing that gets me is its exactly the same symptoms as an Omega td when it gets to a quarter tank
lol :y
Not with mine!