Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: qmc on 11 November 2015, 14:38:16
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Hi all
I'm new here so apologies if this is in the wrong place! I've been a Saab man until now and currently have a 9-5 Aero estate of which I am very fond, but it has a terminal engine problem so needs to go to join its maker. I'm looking for a large, powerful and well-equipped petrol estate (or saloon with folding rear seats) to replace it with, and although I did set off looking for another Saab, nice ones are few and far between now, and a bad Saab is a crippling mistake. However I saw an Omega estate the other day and realised I had forgotten about them (forgive me....)
A quick bit of ebay and Autotrader searching showed I can get a final year 3.2 Elite or MV6 easily within my budget with some left over to do any sorting out. But I don't know anything about them so dropped in here. Basically I do about 15-18k miles per annum, sometimes on my own, sometimes fully loaded up, and need something that would last up to three years without too much complaining. The million pound question is would I be able to get a 3.2 Omega 02/03 reg that would happily do this, or in your experiences would that level of use on something that age and mileage inevitably result in visits to the garage every month to get something else fixed?
All collective wisdom gratefully received!
Thanks in advance
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Welcome. :y
Youngest Omegas now are around 12 years old, so expect things of that age. As a rule, you would want to budget for:
Suspension Over-Haul: Wishbones, Droplinks, Front & Rear shocks.
Engine: Timing belt done correctly, 4years/40k but you never know what has been done before. Also budget Cam covers, and full breather clean.
You may want to consider LPG, as the 3.2's are shocking on fuel, yes they are big engines but the 3.2/2.6 are quite bad. Don't expect any more than 25 maybe 27 average out of a tank.
I love Omega's but if I was doing that kind of miles, I'd look at newer things these days. :(
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It also highly depends on your spanner skills.
DIY stuff and you will be fine, cheap as chips all the above.
But if you rely on garage diagnosis and labour, then the Omega will prove expensive to run
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If you are looking for something to take you 15-18K miles per annum for three years, fully loaded then should you be looking at a 12 year old car? You would have to be exceptionally lucky to find something that would do it 'without complaining'.
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Looks like you've sold the idea Tunnie ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Looks like you've sold the idea Tunnie ;D ;D ;D ;D
He might as well have said "Don't.....they're shite" ;D
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should you be looking at a 12 year old car?
Probably not :D! However my thinking is if I can buy a good vehicle for about £1500 - which seems to be the going rate - then spend around £1k to overhaul various bits (thanks for the tips on the suspension), then that's value motoring if the core components (engine, gearbox, bodywork, interior) will continue to function happily afterwards. That's what I would do with a Saab. What I don't know is whether the Omega has that core strength, if that makes sense? I'm afraid I don't have the time or ability for DIY mechanics, and I want to try to avoid the scenario of something going wrong every month and it having to have repeated trips to the nice man with the spanners.....
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Serek is near to you I guess for spanner work
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2655
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should you be looking at a 12 year old car?
Probably not :D! However my thinking is if I can buy a good vehicle for about £1500 - which seems to be the going rate - then spend around £1k to overhaul various bits (thanks for the tips on the suspension), then that's value motoring if the core components (engine, gearbox, bodywork, interior) will continue to function happily afterwards. That's what I would do with a Saab. What I don't know is whether the Omega has that core strength, if that makes sense? I'm afraid I don't have the time or ability for DIY mechanics, and I want to try to avoid the scenario of something going wrong every month and it having to have repeated trips to the nice man with the spanners.....
I don't know but those on here with experience will tell you about garage costs. I do know it won't be cheap.
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Have a look in the cars for sale section as Bigriffin is selling his estate. Most of the normal known problems are sorted. as for getting the car looked after once bought, Serek is second to none in expertise and quality of work
keith ABS
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should you be looking at a 12 year old car?
Probably not :D! However my thinking is if I can buy a good vehicle for about £1500 - which seems to be the going rate - then spend around £1k to overhaul various bits (thanks for the tips on the suspension), then that's value motoring if the core components (engine, gearbox, bodywork, interior) will continue to function happily afterwards. That's what I would do with a Saab. What I don't know is whether the Omega has that core strength, if that makes sense? I'm afraid I don't have the time or ability for DIY mechanics, and I want to try to avoid the scenario of something going wrong every month and it having to have repeated trips to the nice man with the spanners.....
You are right that the core components continue to run, but engines good for at least 250k+
But at this age, doing miles you state, they would need fairly constant tinkering.
If you rely on garages you might as well get something newer, as overhaul costs at a garage could be considerable.
Serek would be your best bet, if you did want to go this route.
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You'll definitely miss the performance of the Aero. I've had several Omega Elites, the last one being a 3.2 (all 3.0's before). The 9-5 Aero is a completely different machine.
Engine failure means you haven't used (or your garage) proper fully synthetic oil. Bad times. The B235R engine is bullet-proof otherwise.
For your budget, I'd definitely be looking at another 9-5.
If not, get used to cambelt changes! :y
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Once up together a decent example is easily capable of what you are asking... I would jump in mine to drive anywhere in Europe without hesitation (normally, it needs new rear pads doing first but you get my drift!)
Well serviced and it will treat you well. If you aren't capable of doing the spanner work (at least for basic servicing) then perhaps it's not as bright an idea
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Engine failure means you haven't used (or your garage) proper fully synthetic oil. Bad times. The B235R engine is bullet-proof otherwise.
If only it were that simple.... ::) it's had fully synthetic all its life. After much back and forth I appear to have either piston ring or valve stem oil seal failure. One of only two known examples that the specialist who looks after it has ever known on that engine.
Thanks for the honest views so far everyone!
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IME, paying garages or GM dealers to do work on that engine results in it getting expensive. They are scared of it for some reason, including GM dealers, so either price jobs out so they don't have to do it, or take it on and make a pigs ear of it.
Frustrating, annoying, but true. Hence, most on here rely on DIY *OR* known mechanics and garages that are properly capable of looking after it... ...including member Serek in Huntingdon if that is near you.
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Engine failure means you haven't used (or your garage) proper fully synthetic oil. Bad times. The B235R engine is bullet-proof otherwise.
If only it were that simple.... ::) it's had fully synthetic all its life. After much back and forth I appear to have either piston ring or valve stem oil seal failure. One of only two known examples that the specialist who looks after it has ever known on that engine.
Thanks for the honest views so far everyone!
What year was your 9-5, out of interest?
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Engine failure means you haven't used (or your garage) proper fully synthetic oil. Bad times. The B235R engine is bullet-proof otherwise.
If only it were that simple.... ::) it's had fully synthetic all its life. After much back and forth I appear to have either piston ring or valve stem oil seal failure. One of only two known examples that the specialist who looks after it has ever known on that engine.
Thanks for the honest views so far everyone!
What year was your 9-5, out of interest?
2005. One of the last pre Dame Ednas. It's still running but it feels like I'm spending more on oil than petrol.
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I strongly advise you to drive an Omega. On paper, they are pretty quick, but being quite heavy, they are a bit lazy. Very good from 50mph and pretty untouchable from 100mph..... sadly, we aren't allowed to do that on public roads. You will really miss the torque of the Aero. It goes without saying, the Omega Estate is a 'proper' estate. The 9-5 is a decent size, but the Omega could probably swallow a Saab in it's boot. Seats down, and you've got a van!
Economy...... Don't know how you drive, but my 3.2 wasn't far different to my 2004 9-5 Aero, fuel wise. I have had mine re-mapped though, and like to use the loud pedal. I'm also lugging a LPG system around so on long runs, I'm happy days when it comes to pence per mile.
Ride..... I'd suggest a MV6 over an Elite, else you'll bin it the first roundabout you come to. The Elite is very soft and beautifully comfortable, but corners like the QE2 with a pissed helmsman. The Aero (as you'll know) has lowered and stiffer suspension, just like the MV6.
Seats...... The Saab seats beat the Omega hands down - no question.
Brakes...... Very much dependant on what discs and pads are fitted. Both the Saab and Omega have terrible brakes. The Saab has bigger discs, and is lighter so in theory, should be better.
Servicing & Parts...... Both are comparable. Oil changes every 6k (Aero nearer 3k for me). Suspension is the bugger for the Omega. As is cambelt changes, which is not an issue with the chain driven Saab.
Tech...... The Bose setup sounds great (for it's day) just like the HK setup in the Saab. If either cars have Sat-Nav, they'll be as useless as eachother. Work perfectly well, but no Postcode entry makes them poor compared to modern standards - No recent updates.
Personal Opinion...... I'll always look at an Omega and crave it, but I don't think I'll own another. If my Saab goes pop, I'll definitely buy another.
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I'm biased, because I love Omegas, and think they're the comfiest for the money car around, as ana ll-rounder. For our family they have provided the services of every day family car, commuter, limo, furniture removal van, bin lorry, you name it. An Omega estate will swallow anything. The saloons still have a cavernous boot, and still impresses many people when they see the lid open up.
Broomies above can offer a very good comparison, in that of course he's owned both, I haven't.
I'd say I agree with lots he says, and there's definitely something simply incomparable with a Saab Turbo, there's just nothing else like it in the world. That in mind, and given Vauxhall never fitted the excellent Swedish engine in the Omega, I'd be looking at having a 'different car' ie: don't look at the Omega as an 'alternative' to a Saab, they're different animals, some stuff the Saab will do better, some stuff the Omega. The Omega was designed to move you in comfort, on the autobahn/motorway with every possible amenity for a lot cheaper list price than the equivalent Merc, BMW, Audi. That, it does exceedingly well.
Aim for range-topper Elite spec, however I own a CDX and don't feel short changed (only difference is leather seats and the odd other bit here n there dependant on year)
In order of rank...
Select/Reflection (unbadged)
GLS
CD
Sport
CDX
MV6
Elite
Nothing stopping you buying any other trim level and fitting MV6 springs to it, though, like wot I did. :y
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I'm biased, because I love Omegas, and think they're the comfiest for the money car around, as ana ll-rounder. For our family they have provided the services of every day family car, commuter, limo, furniture removal van, bin lorry, you name it. An Omega estate will swallow anything. The saloons still have a cavernous boot, and still impresses many people when they see the lid open up.
Broomies above can offer a very good comparison, in that of course he's owned both, I haven't.
I'd say I agree with lots he says, and there's definitely something simply incomparable with a Saab Turbo, there's just nothing else like it in the world. That in mind, and given Vauxhall never fitted the excellent Swedish engine in the Omega, I'd be looking at having a 'different car' ie: don't look at the Omega as an 'alternative' to a Saab, they're different animals, some stuff the Saab will do better, some stuff the Omega. The Omega was designed to move you in comfort, on the autobahn/motorway with every possible amenity for a lot cheaper list price than the equivalent Merc, BMW, Audi. That, it does exceedingly well.
Aim for range-topper Elite spec, however I own a CDX and don't feel short changed (only difference is leather seats and the odd other bit here n there dependant on year)
In order of rank...
Select/Reflection (unbadged)
GLS
CD
Sport
CDX
MV6
Elite
Nothing stopping you buying any other trim level and fitting MV6 springs to it, though, like wot I did. :y
If you can find them ::) :D
When you become sick like us puppies you will do anything for your baby Omega's ;D And hope no one slags them off >:(
Best handling ive owned is the MV and i miss it , tried desperately to contact the previous owner to buy it back but no luck . My opinion is the CDX is far better than the elite :-X ;)
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Oh, CDXs better than Elites, no question! :y
Well, true, you do have to keep an eye out for them, they're not abundant, but certainly a worthwhile upgrade for the OP, should he feel the suspension is a little wafty compared with what he's used to. :)
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Got mine for sale :y and i'am in Cambridgeshire :y
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I'd say buy from an OOFer if you can. We all know what needs doing to your cars, and we don't just blindly walk into garages and ask for work, we do the jobs that need doing, spend the money here it needs to be spent etc. Thing is, not too often do OOFers cars come up for sale, as we tend to want to keep them! (Mainly because we invest thousands of £ in them, then sell them for 14p, then buy another... :D)
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Thanks for all the comments and advice. I must say I haven't come across such an honest bunch of owners before! IME ask a question like this and you usually get replies along the lines of 'our cars are faster than Ferraris/more spacious than a Transit/ comfier than a Rolls/cheaper to run than a bicycle'. Not here though, which is great.
Anyway, I will have to have take on board everything you've said, but thanks again.
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Thanks for all the comments and advice. I must say I haven't come across such an honest bunch of owners before! IME ask a question like this and you usually get replies along the lines of 'our cars are faster than Ferraris/more spacious than a Transit/ comfier than a Rolls/cheaper to run than a bicycle'. Not here though, which is great.
Anyway, I will have to have take on board everything you've said, but thanks again.
That's how we are... Honest.
To be honest, it's a capable car in V6 guise, but more of a cruiser than anything else.
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I bought a 2003 2.6 Elite Saloon with 113,000 miles on it 5 years ago, it has done 208,000 miles now so I have averaged 18K miles per year.
I don't know of any other make/model of car that I can buy for pocket money that I would be happy to do that many miles in.
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2.5V6 CDX good economy for such a big car and its age, 17 years old. Still going and don't want to part with it happy as a pig in shit ;) ;D ;D ;D
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My sentiments exactly :)
To be honest, the engines were designed for smoothness and economy, not out and out power. Bear in mind the 'little' C20XE of Astra GTE / Cav GSi fame put out 150bhp, so compared with the X25XE there's a whole 500cc more but only 17bhp difference? Sounds like the V6 is 'rubbish', but of course one is aimed at pushing the power envelope, the other for relaxed cruising.
Mind, the power is accessible, if you go down the much-done G-Cam mod (3.0 cams in a 2.5 for those not aware) which takes the engine to a theoretical 195bhp, which is much more like it. :)
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My sentiments exactly :)
To be honest, the engines were designed for smoothness and economy, not out and out power. Bear in mind the 'little' C20XE of Astra GTE / Cav GSi fame put out 150bhp, so compared with the X25XE there's a whole 500cc more but only 17bhp difference? Sounds like the V6 is 'rubbish', but of course one is aimed at pushing the power envelope, the other for relaxed cruising.
Mind, the power is accessible, if you go down the much-done G-Cam mod (3.0 cams in a 2.5 for those not aware) which takes the engine to a theoretical 195bhp, which is much more like it. :)
At the expense of low down torque(or at least thats what I found with mine) :-\
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interesting... did you fit the longer plenum and/or 3.0 divider plate? Never done the G cam mod myself, so openly admit no personal experience, just going by what I've read. Worth noting if it does cost some bottom end torque...
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My sentiments exactly :)
To be honest, the engines were designed for smoothness and economy, not out and out power. Bear in mind the 'little' C20XE of Astra GTE / Cav GSi fame put out 150bhp, so compared with the X25XE there's a whole 500cc more but only 17bhp difference? Sounds like the V6 is 'rubbish', but of course one is aimed at pushing the power envelope, the other for relaxed cruising.
Mind, the power is accessible, if you go down the much-done G-Cam mod (3.0 cams in a 2.5 for those not aware) which takes the engine to a theoretical 195bhp, which is much more like it. :)
But also has 30 Nm more, acheved at lower revs. Not to mention much smother torque curve. GM V6 wiht multirams have a very nice trothle response compared to many other engines of comparable size and power, especially on low revs. This really makes it pleasant to drive. Also, IMO, this smoothnes 'erases' the feel of acceleration - they have more grunt than you feel. Multi-ram is really a great thing for a daily driver.
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Being blinded by the beauty of a wreckage my '94 omega represents I would say go and buy one.
But....
Omega wheels push you as opposed to being pulled so it's a much comfortable ride than others. It requires skills to drive safely in bad weather.