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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Sir Tigger KC on 20 November 2015, 16:40:16

Title: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 20 November 2015, 16:40:16
I've spent the afternoon tinkering with my LPG system that suddenly stopped working a couple of days ago.  ::)  and I can't see whats wrong with it.  :-\

All the signs are that it's run out of gas, but I've got a full tank as I filled up shortly after it stopped working thinking I had an empty tank.  ::)

It runs fine on petrol and from cold will attempt to switch to gas but if driving will beep angrily at me and go straight back to petrol.  If ticking over it will simply stall.  :-\  All the pipework and wiring looks fine and I can hear a click from the general area of the vapourisor just as it attempts to switch.  :(

Any ideas?  :-\  TIA!  :y
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 November 2015, 18:16:57
Unbodge the wiring and try again ;)
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 20 November 2015, 19:35:06
Unbodge the wiring and try again ;)

Nope, I unpicked and checked all that and it's just as I bodged it 6 weeks ago and its worked fine so far.  ::)
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: 05omegav6 on 20 November 2015, 19:58:45
Unbodge the wiring and try again ;)

Nope, I unpicked and checked all that and it's just as I bodged it 6 weeks ago and its worked fine so far.  ::)
;D you daft brush.... ;D
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: zirk on 20 November 2015, 20:36:20
If its bleeping at you on change over then its detected a fault somewhere, some give different bleeps as a clue to might be the fault code.
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: STEMO on 20 November 2015, 21:02:40
If its bleeping at you on change over then its detected a fault somewhere, some give different bleeps as a clue to might be the fault code.
Do you know morse code? It might be telling you in morse code.  ;D
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: biggriffin on 20 November 2015, 21:19:38
Teach ya to use forklift fuel.  ;D
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: zirk on 20 November 2015, 21:53:03
If its bleeping at you on change over then its detected a fault somewhere, some give different bleeps as a clue to might be the fault code.
Do you know morse code? It might be telling you in morse code.  ;D
  ..  -     -..  ---  .  ...     -.  ---  -     -  .  .-..  .-..     -.--  ---  ..-     ..  -.     --  ---  .-.  ...  .     -.-.  ---  -..  .   ::) ::)
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 20 November 2015, 22:01:37
;D you daft brush.... ;D

Do you know morse code? It might be telling you in morse code.  ;D

Teach ya to use forklift fuel.  ;D

- - .  ---   ..-.  ---  .-.  -  .... !  :)
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 20 November 2015, 22:02:56
If its bleeping at you on change over then its detected a fault somewhere, some give different bleeps as a clue to might be the fault code.

Thanks Zirk, I didn't know that!  ::)  :y   Guess I should Please read the manual!  ;D
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Lazydocker on 20 November 2015, 23:06:08
So... Make of system? Do you have the leads?
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 20 November 2015, 23:26:43
So... Make of system? Do you have the leads?

Prins and sadly i don't have leads or software.  :(

Is this worth a punt?  :-\

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRINS-VSI-LPG-GPL-CNG-DIAGNOSIS-USB-INTERFACE-Cable-Software-Instructions-/161892141585?hash=item25b1860a11:g:ak8AAOSwyQtV0W8Y
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Lazydocker on 21 November 2015, 09:09:39
So... Make of system? Do you have the leads?

Prins and sadly i don't have leads or software.  :(

Is this worth a punt?  :-\

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRINS-VSI-LPG-GPL-CNG-DIAGNOSIS-USB-INTERFACE-Cable-Software-Instructions-/161892141585?hash=item25b1860a11:g:ak8AAOSwyQtV0W8Y

Only if that is the right one for your system ;)
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 November 2015, 13:23:33
Yes mines the Prins VSI and has the same switch as in the photos. What I really meant is, given that it's not genuine Prins software is it worth a punt?  :-\

The other thing that has occurred to me today is that the filter hasn't been changed for ages so that might be clogged, but would that cause a sudden shut down?  :-\
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Lazydocker on 21 November 2015, 21:48:04
Yes mines the Prins VSI and has the same switch as in the photos. What I really meant is, given that it's not genuine Prins software is it worth a punt?  :-\

The other thing that has occurred to me today is that the filter hasn't been changed for ages so that might be clogged, but would that cause a sudden shut down?  :-\

Worth a punt? How much are you willing to lose? Without diagnostics you are urinating in a strong breeze until you find the fault ;)

Unlikely to be filter..l mines done over 57k on LPG now without a filter change :-[ ::)
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: TheBoy on 22 November 2015, 09:49:21
Yes mines the Prins VSI and has the same switch as in the photos. What I really meant is, given that it's not genuine Prins software is it worth a punt?  :-\

The other thing that has occurred to me today is that the filter hasn't been changed for ages so that might be clogged, but would that cause a sudden shut down?  :-\

Worth a punt? How much are you willing to lose? Without diagnostics you are urinating in a strong breeze until you find the fault ;)

Unlikely to be filter..l mines done over 57k on LPG now without a filter change :-[ ::)
That reminds me, reckon that would help with my worsenening idle?
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Lazydocker on 22 November 2015, 11:05:33
Yes mines the Prins VSI and has the same switch as in the photos. What I really meant is, given that it's not genuine Prins software is it worth a punt?  :-\

The other thing that has occurred to me today is that the filter hasn't been changed for ages so that might be clogged, but would that cause a sudden shut down?  :-\

Worth a punt? How much are you willing to lose? Without diagnostics you are urinating in a strong breeze until you find the fault ;)

Unlikely to be filter..l mines done over 57k on LPG now without a filter change :-[ ::)
That reminds me, reckon that would help with my worsenening idle?
Possibly. But, to be honest, I've never found any change to the vapour filters over age. Did you ever change the nozzles?

It could be heavy ends in the vap but, again, not really noticed that much on modern systems.

Only real solution is better injectors... Gixer's seems pretty spot on since the new ones went on
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 22 November 2015, 16:50:23
I ordered the lead and software today so that will be interesting when it arrives.  :)

The other thing that I thought about today is the tank solenoid, so I ran it from cold and when it attempts to switch over there is nothing happening at the tank.  So I'm wondering if the solenoid on the tank valve is buggered, as usually there is a distinct click from the tank when it switches.  :-\

Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: STEMO on 22 November 2015, 17:04:35
I ordered the lead and software today so that will be interesting when it arrives.  :)

The other thing that I thought about today is the tank solenoid, so I ran it from cold and when it attempts to switch over there is nothing happening at the tank.  So I'm wondering if the solenoid on the tank valve is buggered, as usually there is a distinct click from the tank when it switches.  :-\
Have you, ermmmm, 'tapped' it with something. Like, for instance, a big hammer? ;D
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 22 November 2015, 17:11:31
I ordered the lead and software today so that will be interesting when it arrives.  :)

The other thing that I thought about today is the tank solenoid, so I ran it from cold and when it attempts to switch over there is nothing happening at the tank.  So I'm wondering if the solenoid on the tank valve is buggered, as usually there is a distinct click from the tank when it switches.  :-\
Have you, ermmmm, 'tapped' it with something. Like, for instance, a big hammer? ;D

I didn't think that sort of thing was encouraged here....  :-\  ;D
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Lazydocker on 22 November 2015, 17:52:38
I ordered the lead and software today so that will be interesting when it arrives.  :)

The other thing that I thought about today is the tank solenoid, so I ran it from cold and when it attempts to switch over there is nothing happening at the tank.  So I'm wondering if the solenoid on the tank valve is buggered, as usually there is a distinct click from the tank when it switches.  :-\

Possible... Not really much to go wrong though. More likely to be a wiring fault to it ;)
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 November 2015, 14:10:10
Tank solenoid is just that. Should get a 12V feed when it tries to switch over to gas, and if you disconnect it and check ohms across the coil with a multimeter, I would reckon on seeing somewhere from tens to a couple of hundred ohms.

You can also try applying a 12V supply across it and see if it clicks. Possible that the coil has gone open circuit or the mechanical part of the valve has seized.

You should have a similar valve at the front end, fed from the same feed. Might be worth seeing if that clicks when you switch over?

A failed tank valve, although rare, would probably explain your symptoms.
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 24 November 2015, 16:36:30
Tank solenoid is just that. Should get a 12V feed when it tries to switch over to gas, and if you disconnect it and check ohms across the coil with a multimeter, I would reckon on seeing somewhere from tens to a couple of hundred ohms.

You can also try applying a 12V supply across it and see if it clicks. Possible that the coil has gone open circuit or the mechanical part of the valve has seized.

You should have a similar valve at the front end, fed from the same feed. Might be worth seeing if that clicks when you switch over?

A failed tank valve, although rare, would probably explain your symptoms.

Yes there is a click at the front end when it attempts to switch over.  I guess from the vapouriser?  :-\

Anyway my diagnostic kit is winging it's way from Germany as we speak!  :y  Although I probably won't be able to make head nor tail of it!!  ;D
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 November 2015, 19:09:03
Yes, click at the front will be on the vapouriser. :y

I will without doubt be over your way sometime within the next month, so would be happy to take a look if it's not sorted.
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 24 November 2015, 19:58:41
I might take you up on that Kevin. Thanks!  :y
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 01 December 2015, 16:24:08
Well my Prins software and lead came today.  I just have to try and make head and tail of it now.  :-\   ::)   ;D
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: melboy on 01 December 2015, 21:01:43
Gas valves can play up bad connection (wires) or not working some systems have one at the tank itself and another in the engine compartment 1 or 2 depending on gas system .
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: melboy on 01 December 2015, 21:20:54
Came across this once before having fit 3 cars with LPG but I had the software and had to reset the system again no problem with parts just software like any software over time can start to play up.
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Lazydocker on 02 December 2015, 09:00:19
Came across this once before having fit 3 cars with LPG but I had the software and had to reset the system again no problem with parts just software like any software over time can start to play up.

Never had to reset the software on any of the 3 vehicles I have owned or several more I have helped out on. But, I say again, that it is most likely to be wiring from the description, especially as it appears that the wiring has been botched at some point
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 02 December 2015, 17:23:00
Well I can't get the diagnostics software to work.  ::)  I thought it was going to be a plug in and play type thing but it's turning out to be a bit more involved and might be beyond me.  :-\   Not one to give up I'll keep messing about with it though.  ::)

So I turned my attention back to the car and ran a direct 12V feed to the tank solenoid which worked and I also unpicked the bodged up wiring again and unpicked it a bit further than before and while it's not ideal I don't think it's caused the system to shut down.  :-\

Given that the tank solenoid works, I guess that there must be a fault somewhere that is either causing the ECU to prevent the solenoid to work or a physical problem like a broken wire.  :-\  Sadly vehicle electrics ain't my strong point.  :(
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Kevin Wood on 02 December 2015, 19:06:26
If you hard wire the tank solenoid always on does the LPG system run normally or same symptoms as before?

Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 02 December 2015, 20:34:27
If you hard wire the tank solenoid always on does the LPG system run normally or same symptoms as before?

Ah I didn't think to try that.  ::)  I just connected it and it clicked.  :y

One thing though, the plastic casing on the coil has a crack in it and when I spotted that thought ' Ah ha! ', but it still clicks when connected.  :-\
Title: Re: Kaput LPG system
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 08 December 2015, 16:53:32
OK a quick update.  ::)

I managed to get the software sorted on the laptop but when I connected it to the car there was nothing doing...  :-\  So I thought 'Sod it!' and booked it in with a local LPG fitter.  ::)

Went there yesterday and he couldn't get it to talk to his laptop either.  :(  Given it's been on the car for nearly 200,000 miles he was pretty pessimistic about a cost effective fix, but gave me a secondhand temp/pressure sensor which he said can be a bit fragile on the Prins VSI systems.  :-\ 

I've fitted it today but it's still not playing.  :'(