Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Entwood on 28 December 2015, 17:29:53

Title: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 28 December 2015, 17:29:53
Boogar ...:(  car has not been moved for over a week  .. start it up and missfiring .. code reader out .. Cylinder 6 although at idle it feels like more than one ... to dark to do anything now ... so early morning out with the spanners as she's due to tow the tin tent at lunch time as we go away for New Year ......

What are we betting .... wet due to scuttle leakage ?? Although it's never happened before but it has rained a lot ..... cam covers ?? although no sign of oil on the bolts.

Coil packs are only 20,000 / 2 years old and were both genuine dealer items....

 :'( :'(
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Steve B on 28 December 2015, 17:37:07
My money is on the scuttle  :y
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: pauls on 28 December 2015, 17:44:05
Scuttle :y
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Lazydocker on 28 December 2015, 17:51:58
Mine has been known to have a strop if left for a while... A good thrash normally clears it.  :-X

Did you try revving it to see if the misfire stayed?
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 28 December 2015, 17:55:13
Mine has been known to have a strop if left for a while... A good thrash normally clears it.  :-X

Did you try revving it to see if the misfire stayed?

Yup and drove it round the estate for 20 minutes to try and warm it up /dry it out ..no change ..  :(
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Andy B on 28 December 2015, 18:11:26
Mine has been known to have a strop if left for a while... A good thrash normally clears it.  :-X

Did you try revving it to see if the misfire stayed?

Yup and drove it round the estate for 20 minutes to try and warm it up /dry it out ..no change ..  :(

You surprise me .... I'd have thought that would have dried it out enough  :(
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 28 December 2015, 18:20:02
Mine has been known to have a strop if left for a while... A good thrash normally clears it.  :-X

Did you try revving it to see if the misfire stayed?

Yup and drove it round the estate for 20 minutes to try and warm it up /dry it out ..no change ..  :(



You surprise me .... I'd have thought that would have dried it out enough  :(

So did I ... :( as it didn't I'll have to pull the coil pack off in the morning ... had to be the 2-4-6 one didn't it .. :(
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Andy B on 28 December 2015, 19:42:59
Mine has been known to have a strop if left for a while... A good thrash normally clears it.  :-X

Did you try revving it to see if the misfire stayed?

Yup and drove it round the estate for 20 minutes to try and warm it up /dry it out ..no change ..  :(



You surprise me .... I'd have thought that would have dried it out enough  :(

So did I ... :( as it didn't I'll have to pull the coil pack off in the morning ... had to be the 2-4-6 one didn't it .. :(

it could be worse .... it could be a 3.0/2.5 with a 1-2-3-4-5-6 coil pack  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 29 December 2015, 09:29:22
Started up this morning absolutely perfect .. for about 2 minutes .. then the misfire came back ...

Coil pack out ... bone dry - both water and oil totally absent, no sign of tracking/cracks/corrosion anywhere.

Now having  major faff trying to get the #6 plug out .. my plug socket will not drop on and bite at all .. just sits on the top and spins .. drops onto 2 & 4 instantly however .. coffee break then try again

:(

Pissed off of Wootty B at the moment
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 29 December 2015, 09:41:18
posible progress...  small spring from inside coilpack was in the plug well ... now out - still can't get the plug out ..but ... would that broken spring thing be enough to cause the missfire ?? it appears to be the bit that goes from the coil pack to the top of the plug.. photos shortly
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 29 December 2015, 10:08:38
Piccie :  (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/coilpack.jpg)

Coil pack not available until around lunchtime tomorrow .. £150 ish (less ABS discount however) .. question ... is it worth "bodging" by bending the remaining spring to get me around 100 miles of motoring ???  50 there today .. 50 back Saturday ... knowing that if it all goes to worms Green Flag are available ...
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: terry paget on 29 December 2015, 10:35:55
Can you see down no. 6 plughole? I wonder if there is some debris there that stops the plug spanner engaging on the plug. You clearly found the contact spring somehow, magnet? There may be more bits of insulation, etc. in the way.
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 29 December 2015, 11:18:11
Well bending and stretching the spring has made no difference .. so we await the new part tomorrow .. gives me the rest of the day to take the scuttle off to gain proper access to plug 6.

REALLY pissed off of Wooty B now..  :(

Terry ...  mirror on a stick shows no further debris in plug 6... :(  Plugs were changed 2 years ago when I had the last coilpack problem .. so my plug socket must work ???
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 29 December 2015, 12:58:07
Well.......  Mr Paget wins first prize .... all apart and scuttle off to gain better access we see something black in the plug well, after 45 minutes "blutac fishing" we have all the bits in photo 1. Carefully remove plug and find all the black stuff seems to be wrapped around the plug as in photo 2... is this the internals of the coil pack boot or what ?? I've never seen anything like it before.

As its all apart I'll put new plugs in that side anyway, decision has been made not to go away until at least tomorrow afternoon. lets hope new plugs and a a new coil pack solve the problem.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/bits.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/plug.jpg)
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: EMD on 29 December 2015, 13:44:03
 :o Does look like part of the boot  :o
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: 05omegav6 on 29 December 2015, 15:04:34
What state was the rest of the coil pack in? Any corrosion evident in the 'vents' :-\
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 29 December 2015, 15:10:20
What state was the rest of the coil pack in? Any corrosion evident in the 'vents' :-\

None whatsoever .. tiny portion of the "end" of the plastic tube missing .. but nowhere near enough to account for all the crap I got out, and examining the "other" boots there is no "hard plastic" inside them ... so what is all this, and why is it stuck to the plug ??  Puzzled of Wooty B
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: YZ250 on 29 December 2015, 15:26:39
Can you remember if the plugs were changed last or the coil pack Nige. Just wondering if it's remnants of the old coil pack.
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 29 December 2015, 15:30:09
Can you remember if the plugs were changed last or the coil pack Nige. Just wondering if it's remnants of the old coil pack.

Coil packs (both) and plugs changed at the same time ... April 2013 .. so although its a possibility - and old age memory can't rule it out - I think it unlikely ...  Old coil packs were in very poor nick .. but the splits/cracks were all on the main body if memory serves .....

Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Nick W on 29 December 2015, 15:36:42
Are those rubbery bits the remains of the boot in your plug socket?


That would explain why you struggled to get it on the plug!


The Halfords sockets are particularly prone to the boot coming loose in my experience; most of mine(for various boring reasons I've several sets) are glued in. #6 cylinder is the only one that I don't use a magnetic long plug socket on.
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 29 December 2015, 16:30:31
Are those rubbery bits the remains of the boot in your plug socket?


That would explain why you struggled to get it on the plug!


The Halfords sockets are particularly prone to the boot coming loose in my experience; most of mine(for various boring reasons I've several sets) are glued in. #6 cylinder is the only one that I don't use a magnetic long plug socket on.

mnmmm this socket, Halfords kit one ...... it has no "boot" in it ... now its possible I guess, that when I did the plug change 2 years ago that the socket insert remained on the plug .... would explain the debris .. old insert gone very hard with heat ...

....  but would the coilpack actually go on the plug if the insert remained ??  .. perhaps it did and that has caused the present failure of the spring bit ??

Don't know ....   :(
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: 05omegav6 on 29 December 2015, 16:38:59
Two years of that baking won't have done it any favours... Think the effect of oil on the plug, only slower...

Recent rain might have allowed water to get it, causing the rubber to swell, forcing the boot/contact apart. Remember that whilst the boot etc is designed to operate in those conditions, an unregulated part from a socket won't be...
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: STEMO on 29 December 2015, 18:27:33
Are those rubbery bits the remains of the boot in your plug socket?


That would explain why you struggled to get it on the plug!


The Halfords sockets are particularly prone to the boot coming loose in my experience; most of mine(for various boring reasons I've several sets) are glued in. #6 cylinder is the only one that I don't use a magnetic long plug socket on.

mnmmm this socket, Halfords kit one ...... it has no "boot" in it ... now its possible I guess, that when I did the plug change 2 years ago that the socket insert remained on the plug .... would explain the debris .. old insert gone very hard with heat ...

....  but would the coilpack actually go on the plug if the insert remained ??  .. perhaps it did and that has caused the present failure of the spring bit ??

Don't know ....   :(
I like that explanation, sounds very plausible.
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: robson on 29 December 2015, 19:33:08
Being no 6 would that be the last one that you fitted before and maybe why you did not realise the rubber gripper was missing.
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 29 December 2015, 19:35:52
Being no 6 would that be the last one that you fitted before and maybe why you did not realise the rubber gripper was missing.

2 years on and I've never noticed the rubber gripper missing ! Socket has been used on other engines as well ...
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Webby the Bear on 29 December 2015, 19:37:26
The Hellfrauds SP sockets are a sod for this. To the point I use the socket and a magnet everytime.
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 30 December 2015, 11:36:19
New coilpack and 3 new plugs fitted - would you believe a main dealer only had 4 plugs in stock ! - and all seems ok on the ramp. Coffee time then a quick test drive then finish packing the tin-tent and hitch up .. hopefully away by 2pm ... Hope you all have a good New Year .. see you on the other side

Take care whatever you do .. its pretty nasty out there ..

Nige & Chris
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Shackeng on 30 December 2015, 12:05:34
Happy New year Nige, hope its all fixed OK. :y
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: YZ250 on 30 December 2015, 12:56:09
New coilpack and 3 new plugs fitted - would you believe a main dealer only had 4 plugs in stock ! - and all seems ok on the ramp. Coffee time then a quick test drive then finish packing the tin-tent and hitch up .. hopefully away by 2pm ... Hope you all have a good New Year .. see you on the other side

Take care whatever you do .. its pretty nasty out there ..

Nige & Chris

Fingers crossed it's sorted then.  :y

Happy New Year Nige, and go steady with the van in this wind.

Have a good one.  :y
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: polilara on 31 December 2015, 09:08:58
Mine has been known to have a strop if left for a while... A good thrash normally clears it.  :-X

Did you try revving it to see if the misfire stayed?

Yup and drove it round the estate for 20 minutes to try and warm it up /dry it out ..no change ..  :(

Interesting case, does anybody know whether this misfire was only when idling or also during this "round the estate for 20 minutes" tour. Still thinking my "Bad Idling Case" started Dec 27.
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 31 December 2015, 09:47:12
2.6/3.2 will shut down the cylinder if more than a  dozen or so cylinder miss fires are detected.

Nige, keep the coil pack as I have some spare boots which will make it a good spare (I semi to recall one of the 4 pot Vx engines had a boot kit available which fits perfectly )
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: RobG on 31 December 2015, 10:15:00
2.6/3.2 will shut down the cylinder if more than a  dozen or so cylinder miss fires are detected.

Nige, keep the coil pack as I have some spare boots which will make it a good spare (I semi to recall one of the 4 pot Vx engines had a boot kit available which fits perfectly )
Part #9195820
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: STEMO on 31 December 2015, 12:40:12
Mine has been known to have a strop if left for a while... A good thrash normally clears it.  :-X

Did you try revving it to see if the misfire stayed?

Yup and drove it round the estate for 20 minutes to try and warm it up /dry it out ..no change ..  :(

Interesting case, does anybody know whether this misfire was only when idling or also during this "round the estate for 20 minutes" tour. Still thinking my "Bad Idling Case" started Dec 27.
The cause of this misfire has already been diagnosed.
Title: Re: Boogar :(
Post by: Entwood on 02 January 2016, 21:13:47
Just to round this one off ... car has behaved impeccably over the holiday .. 100 odd miles towing the tin tent there and back .. and an unexpected trip to the hospital to collect a mate (and his wife) a day after I sent him there by "blue light taxi" early in the morning....  bit of a scare but it appears all will be well with pills and treatment... so just under 200 miles without missing a beat - unlike my mate !!