Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: rds on 04 January 2016, 15:33:22

Title: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 04 January 2016, 15:33:22
Happy New Year all

please can i have the collective wisdom on what water pump to buy for a low mileage 2003  2.2 Z22XE ecotec engine omega?
1 GM but has a nylon impeller, about £80
2 pattern part by Valeo with steel impeller £40
3 pattern part by FAI with steel impeller £25

I only give the relative prices for completeness, but not so that the price is the dominant factor: i am most interested in whether the steel or nylon or make is the best here.

The car is a keeper (owned from new). Water pump is only being changed as it is time for the cam belt change.

Thanks in Advance

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: tunnie on 04 January 2016, 15:52:34
GM used to be steel, but switched to Nylon as part of the penny pinching on parts.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Nick W on 04 January 2016, 16:19:27
Any of those are established brands.
I have seen too many plastic impellers fail, so personally would avoid that one whatever brand it might have been.


Then it comes down to price and availability: I would tend towards the cheapest.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: johnnydog on 04 January 2016, 16:33:32
Just as a comparison, when the last Audi S4 was introduced in 2009 ish, many were recalled to have the plastic water pump replaced due to coolant leaks. The plastic water pumps were distorting, and they were replaced with metal water pumps. No further issues....
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 04 January 2016, 18:21:17
Interesting, thanks: i had wondered if GM used nylon impeller in case of bi-metallic action with the alloy block? didn't realise the older ones were steel though. Makes you wonder if "OEM is always better" at all....?

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: baggers on 04 January 2016, 22:08:27
Avoid plastic impeller. Nothing wrong with FAI.
Price and quality don't always go hand-in-hand.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 05 January 2016, 01:48:17
many thanks to all!
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 05 January 2016, 02:23:36
The GM water pump I got from VX a few months back had a metal impeller.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: dbug on 05 January 2016, 02:27:58
I managed to get a QH one a while back for the V6, and that has a metal impeller also.  Currently in my stock.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Ian66 on 05 January 2016, 12:32:19
Hi all, I know change of subject but I've had major coolant lose today all in one go, and would to find out if any one has any ideas please,  yesterday I found alot of water in the passenger footwell, but found the drain under pollen filter full of water and blocked, please help
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 05 January 2016, 15:11:04
Do feel free to post under a new thread (or search the forum for similar symptoms as yours)

However.. water in the footwell and pollen filter area full of water is classic standard Omega blocked drain. Stick your hand down, and route out all the dead leaves/sweet wrappers/sludge until clear. This is not coolant it's just rainwater. Low coolant is/should be separate issue entirely.


OP - got a GM waterpump myself a bit ago - with metal impellers. Metal ones the way to go, for sure, plastic as said, fail and make engine go bye-bye, make owner sad face man.  :y
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 06 January 2016, 12:53:20
Thanks again all; I've just been told that the valeo steel impeller water pump, gm coolant header tank, dayco  belt and larger battery (096) have just arrived! will check them over later.

here's to a dry day to do the job.........

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 06 January 2016, 13:29:25
Thanks again all; I've just been told that the valeo steel impeller water pump, gm coolant header tank, dayco  belt and larger battery (096) have just arrived! will check them over later.

here's to a dry day to do the job.........

RDS

Hear from you in June, then!
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 06 January 2016, 13:53:05
this year....?
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 06 January 2016, 15:50:57
Hopefully!  :)
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 06 January 2016, 23:49:28
Right, inspected the Valeo water pump.

No gasket - i assume it only needs the already-installed circular rubber seal? No Hylomar to faces?

I gave it a turn but had imagined that it would turn more freely than it actually does; actually you cant make it spin by hand at all. Is that the same as others you have fitted?

Many thanks

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: henryd on 07 January 2016, 17:28:13
Right, inspected the Valeo water pump.

No gasket - i assume it only needs the already-installed circular rubber seal? No Hylomar to faces?

I gave it a turn but had imagined that it would turn more freely than it actually does; actually you cant make it spin by hand at all. Is that the same as others you have fitted?

Many thanks

RDS

Perfectly normal :y
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: baggers on 07 January 2016, 19:56:50
It's fine  :y
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: johnnydog on 07 January 2016, 21:15:27
If it can spin freely by hand, it's generally on its way out. As said, you should be able to turn it by hand, but with some effort.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 07 January 2016, 22:16:35
many thanks for the last three replies! Good to feel reassured. Once again, this proves that the forum is well worth while!

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: sjc on 08 January 2016, 21:03:53
A coating of silicone grease on the rubber seal, a good clean of the mating surface on the block and job should be good.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 10 January 2016, 12:07:12
cheers SJC

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 20 January 2016, 10:26:03
Reading elsewhere with people experiencing coolant leaks suggest the pump seal has failed  - this being the case would it not be prudent to fit a new rubber seal? Partially I ask because I've got a slow coolant leak myself, no idea where from yet, but it could be the water pump seal.

I'd just hate for you to do all this, and then start losing coolant in 6 months because the seal is on its way out.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 20 January 2016, 13:01:46
Hello Diamond G

thanks for that - yes it would be a total tragedy!

Are you meaning that there is another seal that does not come in the pump kits? I must say the seal in the kit looks a bit thin and short....In plumbing terms generally, i hate disturbing joints and faces that are not leaking, hence my reluctance to take the pump out anyway. BUT the general consensus seems to be "as you are there already with the belt change, change the pump".

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 20 January 2016, 13:11:05
Sorry, no, I was both suggesting something misleading and I 'looked but did not observe' (Dr Watson) of course if you've got a seal with the pump, then that should suffice . Re-reading your original post you've got the seal, I was under the impression you didn't, and were going to simply smear some silly-cone grease on the existing one and fit the pump.

I hear you when you say you hate disturbing seals etc, I'm the same. It may well be the pattern pump might benefit from a 'proper' GM seal, however, I've not enough experience in this area to say one way or the other. Never heard of anyone having issue with pattern pump seals. ~

If anyone can help out and say 'yes, I fitted pattern pump and seal 4 years ago with no slow coolant leak since,' then happy days, stick with your new seal that came with the kit.   :)
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 20 January 2016, 13:18:17
Hello again

thanks for the clarification - I liked the reference to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's great creations. A phrase that has often had applied to me, schooldays onward....

yes, come on - all those who have fitted a pattern pump let us know!

also, a picture of the OEM seal would be useful to see it they are the same shape (material is another thing of course....). Can anyone oblige?

cheers

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 20 January 2016, 13:21:31
 :y Welcome. It's not often intelligent literature appears on OOF, mainly it's just double entendres and nob gags, but the odd one does sometimes pop out. (ah,  :( double entendre, there you go, bugger  :D)

Hmmm... I've got a nearly-new genuine GM pump in a bag, in a box, in a box, in my old room, at my parents, so somewhat buried. And for all I know the seal isn't on it! But, unless anyone else is able to furnish you with a pic before then, I should be able to snap a pic of it for you at the weekend if I'm down.. Best I can do, sorry!!

Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 20 January 2016, 13:24:36
Hello again

thanks for that - yes please, i will gladly wait until the weekend: no chance of doing this job outside in the cold for me, before then!!

Once again, it shows how fora like these help us all out!

cheers

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Nick W on 20 January 2016, 13:37:36
A few points:
On the four cylinder engine the water pump is driven by the cambelt and is subject to all the wear that all the other driven bearings are. That is why you replace it as part of a cambelt replacement. It is not optional! This isn't the case with the V6.


In either case, a new water pump should come with a new seal. You should complain to the supplier if it doesn't.


Lightly lubricate the seal and fit the new pump.


Forget about it until the next belt change is due.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 20 January 2016, 13:40:35
Ok Nick will do, ta.

lubricate seal with any favoured lubricant? Red rubber grease? LM grease?

no hylomar needed?

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: Nick W on 20 January 2016, 13:45:40
Ok Nick will do, ta.

lubricate seal with any favoured lubricant? Red rubber grease? LM grease?

no hylomar needed?

RDS


A smear of LM grease will be fine. You're only using it to ensure the seal stays in place so you can fit the pump without pinching or displacing the seal. The seal compresses into the groove, and that is what makes it watertight, not the sealant.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 20 January 2016, 14:18:37
great tip thanks Nick; I wondered if LM attacked rubber you see.

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: tidla on 21 January 2016, 17:03:36
Avoid plastic impeller. Nothing wrong with FAI.
Price and quality don't always go hand-in-hand.

Just changed a water pump on a 2.5 td transporter which had failed big style, spitting all the ball bearings out which i have never seen happen before.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 21 January 2016, 20:40:33
Hi tidla what make was the pump? how old did it appear?
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: baggers on 22 January 2016, 00:58:54
great tip thanks Nick; I wondered if LM attacked rubber you see.

RDS

It will if it's petroleum based, check the labelling.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: baggers on 22 January 2016, 01:00:37
Always change the pump when you change the belt. If it's not leaking it may well do after the belt change.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 22 January 2016, 01:20:27
will do Baggers.

quick look on line seems to show LM grease is not good to rubber. Will delve further.

cheers

RDS
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: baggers on 22 January 2016, 21:00:38
will do Baggers.

quick look on line seems to show LM grease is not good to rubber. Will delve further.

cheers

RDS

I put a small amount (very thin) of rubber grease in the recess for the 'O' ring (this helps stop white rot which gets a grip of the seal), and the same amount on the 'O' ring.
Title: Re: Which Water pump? OEM or Pattern: not as easy as first thought..
Post by: rds on 26 January 2016, 22:24:44
cheers baggers

righto - off to halfrauds again then!

RDS