Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: TD on 20 February 2016, 17:11:26
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My 17 month boiler experienced a problem.....the outside temp sensor stopped working....so the controller went into a default mode and assumed the outside temp was 0c....thus meant the heating still worked but was making the boiler work harder than it needed to.
Call to Vaillant on Fri lunchtime.....explained the problem....heating type blokey booked for today! :o
Turned up about 9.30am, replaced everything to do with the controller....that is controller + circuit board for controller fitted in the boiler + the outside temp sensor....
Carnt fault that service.....fixed within 24hrs of call under warranty :y
I did ask why he was changing the whole lot and not just the outside temp sensor.....apparently it comes as a complete kit....so might as well change the lot ::)
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Had something similar at a friends house in that he couldn't just replace the stat, but had to replace multiple parts, as it was a kit.
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Had something similar at a friends house in that he couldn't just replace the stat, but had to replace multiple parts, as it was a kit.
Well, if the outside temp sensor packs up again outside warranty and I cannot just buy the outside sensor.....I wont be buying the 'kit' ....its nearly £200 of 'kit'.
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TD, I suspect that a complete kit is all that they would sell you, because they make loads more money that way - the "excuse" being that it aids diagnosis and speed ot repair and there might be other faults, so best to change the lot!
Might I suggest that you check the sensor for identifying part numbers and manufacturer, because it's likely to be a supplied part, and research via RS Components of Farnell catalogues - and get one whilst you can.....
Ron.
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I Just call the son-in law and let him do it :y
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Chances are, the design of a component has been updated. Therefore, replacing several components is necessary.
Of course, the company won't be telling you this because they will be accepting a design flaw (rather than a component failure).
Still, Kudos for the prompt warranty repair. :y
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They don't sell the bits separately as they know dam well that a van will turn up outside your house with a person inside pertaining to be an engineer, they will then change willy nilly parts until the fault is fixed because they have not a clue the system is doing so have no means to intelligently fault find it (I note boilers now display fault codes to......so we are into the automotive world!)
far easier for them to supply a single 'electronics' pack so the lot is changed in one go rather than many visits.
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It'll be a sad day when my non-condensing boiler finally dies and I have to endure the abysmal reliability of a condensing boiler. ::)
When you're designing a product whose internals spend most of their life on fire how can you fail to make a simple temperature sensor outlast the "flamey bit"? (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26795734/Smilies/banghead.gif)
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Interesting - I booked a fixed price repair for my Glow Worm boiler. Called them to confirm and they're part of the Vaillant group.. hopefully I also have a good experience to report!
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They don't sell the bits separately as they know dam well that a van will turn up outside your house with a person inside pertaining to be an engineer, they will then change willy nilly parts until the fault is fixed because they have not a clue the system is doing so have no means to intelligently fault find it (I note boilers now display fault codes to......so we are into the automotive world!)
far easier for them to supply a single 'electronics' pack so the lot is changed in one go rather than many visits.
Oh yes! A service is made easy for them as well....they just hook up an equivalent of a tech2, attach a pipe to the gas feed, shove a sensor probe into the flu and then let the 'tech2' put the boiler through it paces.....5 mins later its supposedly tested the boiler and its safety features, measured the flue exhaust and gas pressure. The only other thing they have to do is clean out the magnetic filter....job jobbed!
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TD, I suspect that a complete kit is all that they would sell you, because they make loads more money that way - the "excuse" being that it aids diagnosis and speed ot repair and there might be other faults, so best to change the lot!
Might I suggest that you check the sensor for identifying part numbers and manufacturer, because it's likely to be a supplied part, and research via RS Components of Farnell catalogues - and get one whilst you can.....
Ron.
I'll have a look into that.....thankyou :y
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They don't sell the bits separately as they know dam well that a van will turn up outside your house with a person inside pertaining to be an engineer, they will then change willy nilly parts until the fault is fixed because they have not a clue the system is doing so have no means to intelligently fault find it (I note boilers now display fault codes to......so we are into the automotive world!)
far easier for them to supply a single 'electronics' pack so the lot is changed in one go rather than many visits.
Oh yes! A service is made easy for them as well....they just hook up an equivalent of a tech2, attach a pipe to the gas feed, shove a sensor probe into the flu and then let the 'tech2' put the boiler through it paces.....5 mins later its supposedly tested the boiler and its safety features, measured the flue exhaust and gas pressure. The only other thing they have to do is clean out the magnetic filter....job jobbed!
And in the mean time the thin metals heat exchanger is getting merrily clogged up because they no longer hoover the salt formations out. :-\
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They don't sell the bits separately as they know dam well that a van will turn up outside your house with a person inside pertaining to be an engineer, they will then change willy nilly parts until the fault is fixed because they have not a clue the system is doing so have no means to intelligently fault find it (I note boilers now display fault codes to......so we are into the automotive world!)
far easier for them to supply a single 'electronics' pack so the lot is changed in one go rather than many visits.
Oh yes! A service is made easy for them as well....they just hook up an equivalent of a tech2, attach a pipe to the gas feed, shove a sensor probe into the flu and then let the 'tech2' put the boiler through it paces.....5 mins later its supposedly tested the boiler and its safety features, measured the flue exhaust and gas pressure. The only other thing they have to do is clean out the magnetic filter....job jobbed!
And in the mean time the thin metals heat exchanger is getting merrily clogged up because they no longer hoover the salt formations out. :-\
I'm undecided about that, but it did cross my mind....its the same heat exchanger that does the radiators and the hot water in my case (combi) . The boiler shuts the rads down when there is hot water demand. So, not knowing really how it works, would the heat exchanger be sloshing the chemicals about that's in the rad circuit? :-\ when the rads are on? Plus my hot water temp is set to 43C (gives a lovely hot shower at that temp) so how much limescale deposit would there be :-\
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I'm undecided about that, but it did cross my mind....its the same heat exchanger that does the radiators and the hot water in my case (combi) . The boiler shuts the rads down when there is hot water demand. So, not knowing really how it works, would the heat exchanger be sloshing the chemicals about that's in the rad circuit? :-\ when the rads are on? Plus my hot water temp is set to 43C (gives a lovely hot shower at that temp) so how much limescale deposit would there be :-\
There's a second water-water heat exchanger in a combi to do the hot water, so the main heat exchanger still heats the closed CH circuit water.
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The salts etc form due to the burning of the gas on the outside and the reaction with the non-oxygen part of air.
Part of this will be washed away by the condensate (in theory), but not all.
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On my Vaillant combi there is a 'chimney sweep' setting. Everything gets wound up to 11 (until it hits the high limit). I assume that setting is there to blow the cobwebs out of the heat exchanger.
In normal use the weather compensation maintains the flow temperature at around 40 deg C so the boiler is running in full condensing mode. I can hear the condense dripping into the waste pipe so the heat exchanger is probably wet most of the time.
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Well, I am less than impressed by "Group Serve" (Vaillant service), personally.
Called them out (at a cost of £200) to see if they could a) fix the leaking filling loop and b) find out why the pressure drops every time the boiler runs (the more it runs, the more it drops).
He wasn't more than a foot in the door when he said "Do your pipes run through the screed? That's usually where the leaks are."
So I pointed him to the leaking filling loop.. he dismissed that. Hooked his multimeter up to the pressure transducer to read the voltage and isolated the boiler.
The pressure started to go up all by itself .. "Oh, I don't know why that's happening. Let's ignore that, though."
Reopened the taps to the CH system and the pressure dropped, "See, your leak is definitely outside the boiler."
Then he checked the gas pressure with his manometer and his gas leak detector.
... found a gas leak into the boiler, called Transco to cap it off and oppsed off. Thanks, Vaillant! I guess the union nut into the boiler doesn't count as part of the boiler so it's not your problem.
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Your fault sounds like a potentially knackered pressure vessel if the pressure is rising so easily
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So I pointed him to the leaking filling loop.. he dismissed that.
Of course he did. You're not the Gas "Safe" "Qualified" "Engineer", so what would you know? ::)
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Spot on Kevin!
Your fault sounds like a potentially knackered pressure vessel if the pressure is rising so easily
It could well be, although nothing seems to pass the PRV.. however:
I've now had a local plumber out who checked for leaks with his manometer - no leaks found between the meter and boiler.
He checked using bubble fluid - no leaks found.
He did unscrew the filling loop however to find that both isolating valves are leaking - the CH leaks outward and the cold water feed leaks as well.
He went off to City Plumbing to get a price on the filling loop and valves and on the gas valve as well as a precaution, coming back in two days to fit.
Then Transco turned up.. very nice man, I must say - he checked for gas leaks with his (expensive looking) sniffer with the boiler off, boiler running, boiler off and the door shut for a while etc etc and his conclusion? 0ppm gas, no leak, perfectly safe to use.
The owner of the plumbing company I called after Glow Worm is writing a letter to certify that there was no leak, that the filling loop was leaking and that their engineer should have a) fixed the filling loop and b) not turned my gas off for no reason because he's that annoyed about their behaviour on my behalf :y
I, of course, am now out £200 to Glow Worm (which I'll contest) and the parts alone for the boiler are >£200.. ho hum!
At least I'm warm and I haven't exploded.
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Ahh.. There you go. Mains was leaking in through the filling loop and raising the pressure. Wouldn't have taken the first "Engineer" much thought to have figured that basic fault out. ::)
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Indeed not - the second plumber (local firm) listened to what I said about the filling loop, unscrewed it at one end, realised that water was dripping out of both the CH side and the cold water side and said "Yep, looks like both valves are passing. I'll get them ordered up if they're not already in stock". Took him oooh, at least five minutes.
Which is less time than the Glow Worm engineer spent trying to look clever with his multimeter..
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Indeed not - the second plumber (local firm) listened to what I said about the filling loop, unscrewed it at one end, realised that water was dripping out of both the CH side and the cold water side and said "Yep, looks like both valves are passing. I'll get them ordered up if they're not already in stock". Took him oooh, at least five minutes.
Which is less time than the Glow Worm engineer spent trying to look clever with his multimeter..
I don't understand why a Glow Worm 'engineer' turned up? I phoned the number on vaillant website.....and a Vaillant 'engineer' turned up in a Vaillant van. After changing the parts.....he connected a device that was the size of a tech2 via usb (it looked like a usb port) which put the boiler through its paces and checked for faults....It doesn't sound like the guy you had that kit :-\
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I don't understand why a Glow Worm 'engineer' turned up? I phoned the number on vaillant website.....and a Vaillant 'engineer' turned up in a Vaillant van. After changing the parts.....he connected a device that was the size of a tech2 via usb (it looked like a usb port) which put the boiler through its paces and checked for faults....It doesn't sound like the guy you had that kit :-\
Doesn't matter, because it couldn't have told him the filling loop is knackered anyway. You need a pair of eyes and a brain first and foremost. Like using a Tech 2 to diagnose a puncture!
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I don't understand why a Glow Worm 'engineer' turned up? I phoned the number on vaillant website.....and a Vaillant 'engineer' turned up in a Vaillant van. After changing the parts.....he connected a device that was the size of a tech2 via usb (it looked like a usb port) which put the boiler through its paces and checked for faults....It doesn't sound like the guy you had that kit :-\
Doesn't matter, because it couldn't have told him the filling loop is knackered anyway. You need a pair of eyes and a brain first and foremost. Like using a Tech 2 to diagnose a puncture!
True, but it may have error codes stored.....that may have helped in diagnosis....if AAron's boiler is new enough to have what is basically an ecu... :-\
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I don't understand why a Glow Worm 'engineer' turned up? I phoned the number on vaillant website.....and a Vaillant 'engineer' turned up in a Vaillant van. After changing the parts.....he connected a device that was the size of a tech2 via usb (it looked like a usb port) which put the boiler through its paces and checked for faults....It doesn't sound like the guy you had that kit :-\
Doesn't matter, because it couldn't have told him the filling loop is knackered anyway. You need a pair of eyes and a brain first and foremost. Like using a Tech 2 to diagnose a puncture!
Or Mercedes Star machine to find a leak in an air suspension.
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I don't understand why a Glow Worm 'engineer' turned up? I phoned the number on vaillant website.....and a Vaillant 'engineer' turned up in a Vaillant van. After changing the parts.....he connected a device that was the size of a tech2 via usb (it looked like a usb port) which put the boiler through its paces and checked for faults....It doesn't sound like the guy you had that kit :-\
Glow Worm, Vaillant .. they're the same company ;) My boiler is Glow Worm so I booked it through their website.. his van said "Group Service", "Vaillant" and "Glow Worm".
The boiler is about four years old - maybe not quite as fancy as your Vaillant, but it does have a digital screen and when the pressure drops below minimum logs an error code ("F9"). Which would just tell him what I already told him - the pressure drops to minimum and then the boiler shuts off..
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I don't understand why a Glow Worm 'engineer' turned up? I phoned the number on vaillant website.....and a Vaillant 'engineer' turned up in a Vaillant van. After changing the parts.....he connected a device that was the size of a tech2 via usb (it looked like a usb port) which put the boiler through its paces and checked for faults....It doesn't sound like the guy you had that kit :-\
Glow Worm, Vaillant .. they're the same company ;) My boiler is Glow Worm so I booked it through their website.. his van said "Group Service", "Vaillant" and "Glow Worm".
The boiler is about four years old - maybe not quite as fancy as your Vaillant, but it does have a digital screen and when the pressure drops below minimum logs an error code ("F9"). Which would just tell him what I already told him - the pressure drops to minimum and then the boiler shuts off..
Ahh ok :y
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TD, I suspect that a complete kit is all that they would sell you, because they make loads more money that way - the "excuse" being that it aids diagnosis and speed ot repair and there might be other faults, so best to change the lot!
Might I suggest that you check the sensor for identifying part numbers and manufacturer, because it's likely to be a supplied part, and research via RS Components of Farnell catalogues - and get one whilst you can.....
Ron.
I'll have a look into that.....thankyou :y
Well, ive had a look and the only numbers on it is on the rear, 'VR20' which is name for the sensor and a barcode.
Put in VR20 in the spares website of Vaillant and it comes up with a price of £186.85+vat :o :o
Other plumbing sites are similar price :o
You can buy the whole kit for that price ::)
Of course it could be that Vaillant want you to buy their new controller called Vsmart :-\ Similarly priced and does weather compensation but doesn't use an outside sensor. It uses t'internet to find out what the temp is at your location.....and uses an app for your smartphone to set/control it ::)
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TD, they are lifting your leg!
I don't promise to fare any better, but I'll see what I can find for you. If you have ANY other identifying marks, such as a manufacturer's name (not Vaillant) that would be great.
Ron.
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Ugh, I am suitable humbled, TD - I was expecting a slightly posher version of a resistor and a bit of wire!
This is technological over-kill with knobs on, surely? Doing it "because they can"?
As for determining the operational temperature of a boiler using weather forecast information - can they see where they went wrong, there?
It's a pity they didn't leave you the faulty sensor to play with - can it really be worth best part of £200?
Ok, my searches clearly mimicked yours and I found nothing useful, but in idle moments I'll keep looking......
Ron.
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Of course it could be that Vaillant want you to buy their new controller called Vsmart :-\ Similarly priced and does weather compensation but doesn't use an outside sensor. It uses t'internet to find out what the temp is at your location.....and uses an app for your smartphone to set/control it ::)
Run... Just run. Fast!
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Ugh, I am suitable humbled, TD - I was expecting a slightly posher version of a resistor and a bit of wire!
This is technological over-kill with knobs on, surely? Doing it "because they can"?
As for determining the operational temperature of a boiler using weather forecast information - can they see where they went wrong, there?
It's a pity they didn't leave you the faulty sensor to play with - can it really be worth best part of £200?
Ok, my searches clearly mimicked yours and I found nothing useful, but in idle moments I'll keep looking......
Ron.
Thanks
Worth £200, umm No! I suspect the reason it wasn't left and probably why the whole kit was changed, is Vaillant get them repaired and then use the repaired kit as a warranty replacement item :-\
If it goes wrong again outside of warranty , I shall probably leave it broken (the outside temp on the controller defaults to 0c) and reduce the heat curve on the controller so it wont be so aggressive ( ie so the boiler doesn't run at too high a temp and the modulation of the boiler still works)
The only other markings on the back of the unit where molding markings
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Of course it could be that Vaillant want you to buy their new controller called Vsmart :-\ Similarly priced and does weather compensation but doesn't use an outside sensor. It uses t'internet to find out what the temp is at your location.....and uses an app for your smartphone to set/control it ::)
Run... Just run. Fast!
I can see another 'Leaf' thread .... Vaillant boiler hacked.....house turned into a sauna ::) ;D ;D