Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: BazaJT on 03 April 2016, 09:53:08
-
After years of budget squeezes/cuts I see that Cameron and his merry band are encouraging public sector bodies-NHS trusts and the like to buy british steel in order to save the industry.With EU and World Trade Organisation rules we can't stop/ban imports of steel from China or anywhere else even if we wanted to and contractors are obliged to take into account many factors such as carbon footprint etc when buying in materials.China of course has been flagrantly ignoring WTO rules when making huge amounts of steel at a loss and then dumping it on the market at low prices.So Camerons "encouragement" seems a little like stable,horse,door,bolted for such a measure to save the British steel industry.
-
I would imagine the people that use most Steel in the UK are the construction industry and, possibly, the rail industry. The construction industry is privately run and, even when taking on contracts for the government departments, would have to treat each contract on it's merits. If the government made winning the contract dependant on using British steel, the EU and foreign competing contractors would go mental. Also, would the government pay over the odds for the contract because British steel is more expensive? Very murky waters.
-
Ship building too, never thought of that one. But same principles apply.
-
Anyone think we should start a trade war with the chinks?...... ::) ::)
Just asking. :)
-
I worked in the steelworks for many years,and feel that the government has let china get away with murder.Thinking about who buys and use's steel,why don't the press reveal the companies that purchase british/china steel,that would make more people think twice about who they support.
Alfie
-
It's not only their steel that's shite,take a look at Gay Bay,Poundland and most domestic importers of various goods.. shite,shite and yet more fake shite. :)
-
Its just government bullshit / spin. There are strict EU regulations governing Govt. purchasing / contract tendring etc. The criteria of the regs. must be fulfilled and purchases made under that criteria regardless of country of origin.
They cant advertise that though, as folk might start to think we aren't actually a self governing nation any more. ;)
-
Its just government bullshit / spin. There are strict EU regulations governing Govt. purchasing / contract tendring etc. The criteria of the regs. must be fulfilled and purchases made under that criteria regardless of country of origin.
They cant advertise that though, as folk might start to think we aren't currently a self governing nation. ;)
Fixed... Give it a few months ;)
-
Given that ...
The vast majority of folks have no wish to pay higher taxes
The vast majority of folks really want to pay less taxes
The government and councils make no money whatsoever, they can only spend what they raise in taxes
The vast majority of folks want government/councils to spend more on whatever pet project is in their mind right now .. from cheap housing to saving the steel industry to improving roads /railways to providing kids with free meals to cutting waiting times at doctors /hospitals etc etc etc etc
It thus appears that the vast majority of folks don't have a functioning brain cell worth talking about as the above ideas are mutually exclusive
:(
-
Agreed - mostly. I don't want the govt. to do a thing for me, and I don't want to give them my money, as they evidently waste most of what they take.
I do think they should be able to make the decision to take an objective look at the possibility of subsidising the steel industry, by way of long term loans.
It can be argued that the current problems are short to medium term, and when things pick up / get back to normal, we wont have a steel industry left to take advantage of that. We will then be at the mercy of foreign companies and Govts. for steel, just like we are for most other things nowadays.
The problems in 2008 showed us we would be better to have a more broad based economy, and particularily need to expand our manufacturing base. We cant keep relying on the financial sector for evermore.
Imo,it will bite us on the arse again, if we do.
-
Agreed - mostly. I don't want the govt. to do a thing for me, and I don't want to give them my money, as they evidently waste most of what they take.
I do think they should be able to make the decision to take an objective look at the possibility of subsidising the steel industry, by way of long term loans.
It can be argued that the current problems are short to medium term, and when things pick up / get back to normal, we wont have a steel industry left to take advantage of that. We will then be at the mercy of foreign companies and Govts. for steel, just like we are for most other things nowadays.
The problems in 2008 showed us we would be better to have a more broad based economy, and particularily need to expand our manufacturing base. We cant keep relying on the financial sector for evermore.
Imo,it will bite us on the arse again, if we do.
Either industry is State owned or privately owned.
If State owned throw money at it when times are tough and reap the rewards when times are good...
However, if, as in this case, it's privately owned, then it's subject to market forces. And whilst it's easy to blame the current government, let's not forget that whilst we have started to recover financially, the rest of the world is still in the shit. China, as rapidly developing second world economy, has a lot more to lose than either the UK or TATA.
Allowing TATA to import steel to build their cars here is arguably a better approach than forcing them to move their manufacturing plants overseas, whereby we would lose both the steel plants AND the car plants...
Union involvement will only serve to render the plants closed.
-
I agree with most of that, but the problem is that China isn't actually a real market economy. In the end, their govt. controls everything and they are deliberately wrecking world steel markets to limit damage to their own economy, caused by genuine market forces.
If we are naïve enough to meet this with nothing more than a good old British sense of fair play and adhering strictly to the rules, when the price of steel goes back up,we will have no choice but to pay the Chinese what they decide to charge us for their steel.
I believe that politicians staying out of business is a goods rule, but there are exceptions to every rule, and this could be one of them.
More importantly perhaps, our elected Govt. should be able to decide what actions it will take, rather than having to be very limited in what it can do by people in another country who have never stood for election to anything in their lives.
-
Allowing TATA to import steel to build their cars here is arguably a better approach than forcing them to move their manufacturing plants overseas, whereby we would lose both the steel plants AND the car plants...
I think you will find that Tata already make JLR vehicles in China and Brazil ;)
-
Allowing TATA to import steel to build their cars here is arguably a better approach than forcing them to move their manufacturing plants overseas, whereby we would lose both the steel plants AND the car plants...
I think you will find that Tata already make JLR vehicles in China and Brazil ;)
So it wouldn't take much to persuade them to close the UK plants...
-
I'm not sure that even if the British government wanted to subsidise the steel industry, they can't due to EU rules? :-\
-
I realise this might get me shot down on most street corners in the UK, but I'm confused as to why everyone is so attached to steel production in the UK.
The plant is (supposedly) losing £1m/day and even Tata who have a good domestic use for all that steel (JLR) aren't making it profitable so why keep it? Yes I know all about the UK being great and making stuff and all that jazz, but steel is a commodity product and making it isn't all that clever or hard to do. So, that said, why would you choose to make a commodity product somewhere with (comparatively) high wages, high energy costs and in a location where you have to import all the raw material. Just seems like a poor business model.
The UK should be focussing on the kind of manufacturing we excel at - the difficult stuff - like bits for the Airbus A380 & JSF, Rolls Royce Aero engines, trick AWD systems, let the dirty simple manufacturing go to parts of the world where it makes more sense - BRIC countries for example.
-
I realise this might get me shot down on most street corners in the UK, but I'm confused as to why everyone is so attached to steel production in the UK.
The plant is (supposedly) losing £1m/day and even Tata who have a good domestic use for all that steel (JLR) aren't making it profitable so why keep it? Yes I know all about the UK being great and making stuff and all that jazz, but steel is a commodity product and making it isn't all that clever or hard to do. So, that said, why would you choose to make a commodity product somewhere with (comparatively) high wages, high energy costs and in a location where you have to import all the raw material. Just seems like a poor business model.
The UK should be focussing on the kind of manufacturing we excel at - the difficult stuff - like bits for the Airbus A380 & JSF, Rolls Royce Aero engines, trick AWD systems, let the dirty simple manufacturing go to parts of the world where it makes more sense - BRIC countries for example.
That figure is the total loss across all plants in the UK iirc ;)
As for the rest.............
Lets just say that your thinking like a tory politician accountant.
Steel manufacture is a basic must in the industrial world.
Simple as that as that.
Without it, you cant build sweet f all unless you line the pockets of a foreign power who owns the industry.
The same is said for the utilities industry too.
Over the last 30 years or so, this country has sold off its family silver to the highest bidder for short term profit of a few merchant bankers who probably had the politicians of the day on the board of directors >:( >:(
We cant wipe our own arse anymore without paying some foreign power for the privilege >:(
This country has nothing anymore that we can call our own sadly :(
Yes we may have some absolutely brilliant minds out there but most of the research is funded by foreign money.
And what little we do fund out of our very own shallow pockets is then sold off to a foreign power for the short sighted profit of the few >:( >:(
In fact if we ever loose the slice of the profits that the financial sector brings in, we are a third world nation >:(
I would love to see a government have the balls to compulsory purchase back the basic infrastructure of this nation but sadly, those politicians of the day along with there money grabbing chums in the city have re wrote the rules to stop that >:(
The gap between the elite of the day and the minions has never been larger imo :(
-
As far as Im aware its losing money due the the price of steel falling off a cliff, which is due to he Chinese flooding the market.
If it was losing that amount of money in normal market conditions then its unlikely to be worth trying to save it in my opinion.
-
Well, given as the bulk of our heavy industry is owned by other people, what would you suggest ::)
-
Allowing TATA to import steel to build their cars here is arguably a better approach than forcing them to move their manufacturing plants overseas, whereby we would lose both the steel plants AND the car plants...
I think you will find that Tata already make JLR vehicles in China and Brazil ;)
So it wouldn't take much to persuade them to close the UK plants...
Exactly. But would the western world want to buy a premium priced luxury car from China?
I do genuinely believe ze german has frecked up badly on that, but maybe its a different ploy ;)
-
The plant is (supposedly) losing £1m/day and even Tata who have a good domestic use for all that steel (JLR)
I think you aren't aware of how Tata operates its companies - JLR will get their steel from whichever source they feel best, and get no special pricing from Tata Steel.