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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Entwood on 28 July 2016, 17:04:37

Title: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 28 July 2016, 17:04:37
Typical ... we leave tomorrow towing the tin-tent to Scotland for a 2 week holiday... just been trailered home by Green Flag with a major gearbox failure .... no warning at all .. stopped at the bank to pay in a cheque, came out, started car, went to pull away ... MASSIVE grinding sounds, terrible vibration, no movement at all .... knock it into neutral .. it took 4-5 seconds to react with a horrible squealing tinny sound .... so looks like I'm looking for a known good AR35 + flexplate + torqueconverter .. and someone to help me change it at the roadside.

Can't even put it on the ramp at the moment as I need to get the tin-tent out, luckily we have a friend who has a "spare" LR discovery that he will lend us for 2 weeks.... so we WILL go on holiday ... just a tad late by the time we sort our act out.

:(
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Shackeng on 28 July 2016, 17:06:38
Bad luck Nige. Tigers Gonads has a serviceable box which I was going to use before I got the NOS one. :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 28 July 2016, 17:15:25
Bad luck Nige. Tigers Gonads has a serviceable box which I was going to use before I got the NOS one. :y

Ahh thanks for that .. PM sent to TG  .. :)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Andy B on 28 July 2016, 17:33:36
Bugger! At least you'll get your fortnight away ..... you might even be tempted to buy a 4x4 on the back of it  ;)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 28 July 2016, 17:47:26
Nightmare , but at least you can get away that's the most important thing.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: TD on 28 July 2016, 18:01:58
Sorry to hear that Nige....tho it could have been worse....with the gearbox failing either on the way to Scotland or while you were there....cutting the holiday short!
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Toledodude1973 on 28 July 2016, 18:10:37
Yep could have been worse,just back from somerset holiday and did notice higher amount of breakdowns than i normally see, not fair wrecks holidays >:(
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: joff on 28 July 2016, 19:21:40
Typical ... we leave tomorrow towing the tin-tent to Scotland for a 2 week holiday... just been trailered home by Green Flag with a major gearbox failure .... no warning at all .. stopped at the bank to pay in a cheque, came out, started car, went to pull away ... MASSIVE grinding sounds, terrible vibration, no movement at all .... knock it into neutral .. it took 4-5 seconds to react with a horrible squealing tinny sound .... so looks like I'm looking for a known good AR35 + flexplate + torqueconverter .. and someone to help me change it at the roadside.

Can't even put it on the ramp at the moment as I need to get the tin-tent out, luckily we have a friend who has a "spare" LR discovery that he will lend us for 2 weeks.... so we WILL go on holiday ... just a tad late by the time we sort our act out.

:(

I have an option for you Nige, if all goes well with our trip to Scotland over the next two weeks with the wife's X type estate Jag, I will be putting the Black Elite estate up on here, more room in an Estate  ::) ::) ;)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: TheBoy on 28 July 2016, 19:53:31
Not just dumped all its ATF?
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: biggriffin on 28 July 2016, 20:43:15
Thrust washer. My guess.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: tunnie on 28 July 2016, 21:06:02
Gearbox failure, welding the cills underneath, wow, think I would have given up on that a while ago.

Surprised at such a critical failure, how many miles does it have on it?

Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Andy H on 28 July 2016, 22:29:17
Typical ... we leave tomorrow towing the tin-tent to Scotland for a 2 week holiday... just been trailered home by Green Flag with a major gearbox failure .... no warning at all .. stopped at the bank to pay in a cheque, came out, started car, went to pull away ... MASSIVE grinding sounds, terrible vibration, no movement at all .... knock it into neutral .. it took 4-5 seconds to react with a horrible squealing tinny sound .... so looks like I'm looking for a known good AR35 + flexplate + torqueconverter .. and someone to help me change it at the roadside.

Can't even put it on the ramp at the moment as I need to get the tin-tent out, luckily we have a friend who has a "spare" LR discovery that he will lend us for 2 weeks.... so we WILL go on holiday ... just a tad late by the time we sort our act out.

:(
Is the box at fault? Or is it just the flexplate that has let go?

Your reference to terrible vibrations makes me think that the torque converter was making a bid for freedom. If that was the case then the unknown will be whether the input shaft or oil pump have been damaged :-\
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: joff on 28 July 2016, 22:44:23
Typical ... we leave tomorrow towing the tin-tent to Scotland for a 2 week holiday... just been trailered home by Green Flag with a major gearbox failure .... no warning at all .. stopped at the bank to pay in a cheque, came out, started car, went to pull away ... MASSIVE grinding sounds, terrible vibration, no movement at all .... knock it into neutral .. it took 4-5 seconds to react with a horrible squealing tinny sound .... so looks like I'm looking for a known good AR35 + flexplate + torqueconverter .. and someone to help me change it at the roadside.

Can't even put it on the ramp at the moment as I need to get the tin-tent out, luckily we have a friend who has a "spare" LR discovery that he will lend us for 2 weeks.... so we WILL go on holiday ... just a tad late by the time we sort our act out.

:(
Is the box at fault? Or is it just the flexplate that has let go?

Your reference to terrible vibrations makes me think that the torque converter was making a bid for freedom. If that was the case then the unknown will be whether the input shaft or oil pump have been damaged :-\

Had that go on the Disco last year, now have an H/duty one in :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 28 July 2016, 23:41:35
Thanks for all the comments.... in no particular order ...

157590 miles

No sign of leaking ATF at all, box is dry as is the floor

No idea how to check the flexplate versus the box .. I assume the worst ... :( (guessing that it needs dropping anyway)

Sounds far worse than a thrust washer .. the high pitched sound was like a bandsaw ... so perhaps one of the brake bands has given up ...

Vibrations "might" be the wrong word .. the whole car was "shuddering" quite markedly for the 6 feet it moved, it sort of felt like you were driving with a wheel clamp on.

Once stopped, switched off, good look around/under .. nothing visual so tried it again .. all the noises and shuddering but no movement in any gear, so switched off and left off.

Guy up the road suggested the diff had seized .. I discount that as in neutral it rolls quite easily and quietly.

Think thats all I can add right now .. :(
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: TheBoy on 29 July 2016, 13:21:03
Worry about it after holibobs. Enjoy the Disco for the next 2 weeks, and relax.  The gay Gold 'un will still be there on your return :)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: TheBoy on 29 July 2016, 13:21:38
What I meant to say is worse case in likely AR35, and £75 should get you a working one :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Andy B on 16 August 2016, 13:48:45
....
 luckily we have a friend who has a "spare" LR discovery that he will lend us for 2 weeks.... so we WILL go on holiday ... just a tad late by the time we sort our act out.

:(

how did you get on towing with the 4x4? I always though my Omega towed well, but my R Class tows even better  :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: henryd on 16 August 2016, 16:01:42
....
 luckily we have a friend who has a "spare" LR discovery that he will lend us for 2 weeks.... so we WILL go on holiday ... just a tad late by the time we sort our act out.

:(

how did you get on towing with the 4x4? I always though my Omega towed well, but my R Class tows even better  :y

I find the same but like you have 2.5 tonne kerb weight which brings stability without 4WD :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Andy B on 16 August 2016, 16:30:10
.....
which brings stability without 4WD :y

I don't have an option  ;)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: henryd on 16 August 2016, 17:08:40
.....
which brings stability without 4WD :y

I don't have an option  ;)

Nor do I but don't think AWD makes that much difference tbh :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Andy B on 16 August 2016, 19:06:26
....
Nor do I but don't think AWD makes that much difference tbh :y

Neither do I ... but at leasts it's better than FWD  :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: henryd on 17 August 2016, 10:28:23
....
Nor do I but don't think AWD makes that much difference tbh :y

Neither do I ... but at leasts it's better than FWD  :y

Christ yes,I used to tow with a rover 827 and plenty of poke but not much traction :-\
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Andy B on 17 August 2016, 10:49:40
....

Christ yes,I used to tow with a rover 827 and plenty of poke but not much traction :-\

They were bad enough without a caravan leaning the back. I was once lent one .... understeer was an understatement
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 17 August 2016, 11:57:57
....
 luckily we have a friend who has a "spare" LR discovery that he will lend us for 2 weeks.... so we WILL go on holiday ... just a tad late by the time we sort our act out.

:(

how did you get on towing with the 4x4? I always though my Omega towed well, but my R Class tows even better  :y

Well it got me there and back, and we have the use of it for another 2 weeks until Daz can come and work his magic !!

As for towing with the Disco, it is without doubt a very capable machine, although it nearly wrote us and the van off very early on in our relationship !!

Towed fine along the A417/419 in fairly heavy traffic at around 45-50 mph. Got onto the M5 and was aiming for a steady 60 mph, at 55 mph it suddenly developed the mother of all tank slappers, for no reason whatsoever, no gusty wind, no lane changes, no trucks going past .... it just went ..  :(  luckily all the traffic behind backed right off and left me alone .. all three lanes + the hard shoulder for about 30 seconds .. I REALLY thought I was going to lose it and roll .. but as the speed dropped back to 50mph it came back under control .... certainly a "brown trouser" moment ... we continued on at 45-50mph solid as a rock to the next services to ponder and breath properly....

Walking back from the coffee house I noticed that the van was sitting quite nose high on the towball, it should sit slightly nose down. Nowt I could do about it so we continued at 50mph for the rest of the journey there and back whilst towing, car was fine up to 70mph solo.
 
On return I mentioned this to the owner who's enlightening response was "Oh sh*t .. drop plate" ... seems that when he sold his Range Rover the purchaser needed a drop plate, which he took off the Disco and never replaced, and had forgotten about ...plus he has recently replaced the suspension airbags ..... so the towball is actually some 4 inches higher than the max height !! hence the nose high attitude !!

For those who have never towed .... if the nose is up rather than down, then at speed the wind gets under the nose and lifts it, making the front end light and the back end heavy, in relative terms, which leads to the "pendulum effect", which is a major cause of instability and is the reason for many of the caravan wrecks you see on motorways, and yes .. we were nearly one of them....  :(

Should I have noticed it beforehand ?? perhaps .. but I assumed the towball was the right height, and because the road slopes outside our house the van didn't look nose high when hitched up.

As they say ... lesson learned ... we were lucky.

Would I buy a Disco ?? Nope, and not because of this, but I still don't like the driving position, the seats, the noise, the (lack of) turning circle, and a few other points.... I want my Miggy back !!  :)

As an aside, in just under 1000 miles over the 2 weeks we saw 1, yup, just 1, omega ...  :(
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: YZ250 on 17 August 2016, 19:54:51
..................................
the mother of all tank slappers for no reason whatsoever, no gusty wind, no lane changes, no trucks going past .... it just went ..  :(  luckily all the traffic behind backed right off and left me alone
 ................................
 

I know we have chatted about this before but having been there myself I can confirm that it is NOT a nice feeling. I had all three lanes of the M5, front tyres screeching sideways and the van wheels lifting with each motion of the tail wagging the dog. It was the mother of all snakes. We continued to caravan for many years afterwards but I NEVER forgot that day. It's a horrible sensation.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: ronnyd on 17 August 2016, 22:03:48
Were you using an anti-snake bar, or are they now obsolete? :-\
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: YZ250 on 17 August 2016, 22:42:25
Were you using an anti-snake bar, or are they now obsolete? :-\

The AKS type are built in to the hitch head now. It's not a blade anymore, they're a friction pad type.  :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 17 August 2016, 22:48:25
Were you using an anti-snake bar, or are they now obsolete? :-\

New vans use friction pads built into the hitchhead that "clamp" to the towball to do what the older bars did, but they have no chance of stopping 1600kgs with the energy of 55 mph (e=mv²) if it decides to go... but I dare say they help it come back into line as the unit slows down. ATC (Automatic Trailer Control) fitted to the van (applies the van brakes if it senses too high a lateral movement) was not working as the Disco, being old, is not wired up to power it, only has a 12N socket, no 12S .. :(

Edit :  beaten to it DOH !!
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 18 August 2016, 12:30:07
Had this experience a few years ago when towing with a MK2 Granada again people backed off so I could get the unit under control, always try to stay at around 55 mph when towing now just seems comfortable, have seen caravans hurtling along at over the 70mph limit , best of luck to them !!
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Andy B on 18 August 2016, 13:37:12
....
 have seen caravans hurtling along at over the 70mph limit , best of luck to them !!

Does an outfit that's legal at those speeds in Europe suddenly become dangerous once on this side of the Channel?
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 18 August 2016, 16:35:45
Don't know what the limits are abroad, me personally would not tow at over 60 mph, but plenty do in this country have never towed abroad always fly if going overseas.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 04 September 2016, 17:12:49
Even more p*****d off now .... :( 

Back from holidays, tin tent parked up, so time to move the Omega onto the ramp so Daz can change the gearbox next weekend without getting his feet run over. Plan was to tow the car onto the ramp using an offset towrope and the Disco driving up next doors drive. Chris not happy at steering the car like that so a neighbour enlisted to help. He'as a good guy with an interest in cars and we've swapped tools and chat a few times.

As soon as the car started to roll he said it was not the gearbox but the diff as he could hear it. Now the Green Flag mad was adamant it was the gearbox when he arrived at the dead car and heard the noise - he had to "diagnose" before doing a recovery, and then said he was certain it was NOT the diff as it made no noise when being dragged onto the flatbed or rolled off.  Once it was home I never ran it again for fear of doing more damage and started the search for an AR35. I now have conflicting opinions... :(  So

Plan C (or D, E, F lost count now). Jack the back end up, disconnect propshaft at gearbox end, run engine and gearbox and see what happens.

If all quiet disconnect both halfshafts, reconnect propshaft, run engine, gearbox and diff, see what happens.

Seems the guy up the road referred to in post 13 might have been right all along.. b******d   :)

Start searching for a known good diff for a 3.2

The diff on it is a second hand one of unknown mileage fitted in May 2012, some 42,000 miles ago
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Kevin Wood on 04 September 2016, 17:45:38
Surely if it's potentially lost drive at the diff end you just need to look underneath and see if the propshaft is rotating?
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 04 September 2016, 17:48:52
Jack up back end with front wheels securely chocked.  Gearbox in neutral, handbrake off and see what happens when you try to spin the rear wheels.  :)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: TD on 04 September 2016, 18:06:43
To be correct title should read "Royally p****d off of Wootty Bassett"  :y ;D

But seriously Mr E, if you need any help this week, I'm available evenings or Sun morning/evening  :)

Just give me shout, you have my mobile number  :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Shackeng on 04 September 2016, 19:03:14
Sorry can't offer to help this time Nige, as we are off on our holliers this week. Good luck anyway. :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 04 September 2016, 19:47:37
OK .. am now Royally and seriously P*******d off, but sort of relieved as well ..

Jacked the back end up and crawled underneath .. and its not the gearbox or the diff ... I saw this .... (wheel removed to take the pictures)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/DSC_3282.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/DSC_3283.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/DSC_3284.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/DSC_3285.jpg)

All bolts present but obviously undone, looks like the internal "dome" of the joint is quite badly dented...... the bolts were last touched by me when the diff and drive shafts were replaced 42000 miles ago, AFAIK they have not been touched since so why

My intention is to do up all the bolts the run the car whilst on axle stands to check for any weird noises from gearbox/diff but I expect none,

now I need some expert advice .....

What needs replacing ?? Something must be damaged inside the CV joint given all the grease that's leaked out and the shiny bit I can see on the "dome" so ...

Complete replacement driveshaft including CV joint ?? or just the CV joint (Haynes implies it is replaceable on its own?) what about the hub is that going to be damaged at all ??

How easily does the drive shaft come out of the diff ?? as to get a better view of any damage I think I need to take it right off and clean it up ... Haynes implies its an easy job ..... last time we had the diff right off so access was far easier

Any advice gratefully accepted

If only Green Flag man or myself had got under the car and looked PROPERLY .... my excuses are a) I believed him, b) I was worried about getting a tow car for the holibob ..... c) I was in a suit at the time ....

Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: omegod on 04 September 2016, 19:53:10
How TF has that happened  :o?  If you need a shaft/joint give me a shout 
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 September 2016, 20:02:00
Pry bar/large flat screwdriver between diff case and drive shaft. Simply pops out :y

There is/was a gm repair kit...

I do wonder if all that mess is a result of complete joint failure... not sure if those bolts were actually tight enough :-\
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: RobG on 04 September 2016, 20:14:32
Pry bar/large flat screwdriver between diff case and drive shaft. Simply pops out :y

There is/was a gm repair kit...

I do wonder if all that mess is a result of complete joint failure... not sure if those bolts were actually tight enough :-\
Nige torqued them all to correct setting in mine & Chris`s (Shackeng) presence, then double-checked. ???
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: RobG on 04 September 2016, 20:16:40
If no hub damage Nige, whack another driveshaft on (must be from a V6 though due to bolt pcd`s)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 September 2016, 20:17:19
Pry bar/large flat screwdriver between diff case and drive shaft. Simply pops out :y

There is/was a gm repair kit...

I do wonder if all that mess is a result of complete joint failure... not sure if those bolts were actually tight enough :-\
Nige torqued them all to correct setting in mine & Chris`s (Shackeng) presence, then double-checked. ???
Don't doubt it, but for all 6 to come loose... presuming that they're all intact :-\
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 04 September 2016, 20:45:27
Now beaten by the light ... or lack of it !! 

All six bolts are present and intact, although two are slightly out of true and will only do up part way, one is proud by about 3/8 the other by 1/8 .. tried in different holes with the same result so I'm fairly confident the hub holes/threads are undamaged.

Turning the hubs by hand there are no noises or high resistance spots, so far.

Tomorrow I will jack the the hubs up a tad so the drive shafts run level and set the whole thing in motion and see what we will see....

Thanks for all the advice, I have no idea how/why all 6 bolts have come loose, and no idea over what time scale either... I am certain that we (me, RobG & Shackeng) checked and double checked everything as we did it.

Omegod .. if you have a "known good" 3.2 V6 drive shaft with CV joint and 6 bolts please let me know the price, including delivery, as I hope to be placing an order with you tomorrow morning !!

It will be an easy "fix" compared to the other 2 options that it appeared to be... just a shame that by the end of this I'll have spent the best part of £200 on a gearbox I didn't need, and all the hassle and work I've had other folk do on my behalf, for which I'm very thankful to tigers_gonads for supplying and delivering the gearbox and Daz for stripping it, emptying all the old oil, replacing filters and gaskets and the thrust washer. Still.... once it gets to me at least I'll have a spare if I ever need one, along with the exhaust gaskets and the 10 litres of ATF .... ho hum .....
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: iansoutham on 04 September 2016, 20:54:44
I would change all 12 bolts (both sides) and all the reinforcing plates and run it if no noises are heard.

We have old E46 models do this (except they snap the bolts) and you normally find the reinforcing plates have "gone soft" causing the bolts to work loose.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 04 September 2016, 21:09:31
I would change all 12 bolts (both sides) and all the reinforcing plates and run it if no noises are heard.

We have old E46 models do this (except they snap the bolts) and you normally find the reinforcing plates have "gone soft" causing the bolts to work loose.

Are they the "half moon" looking curvy washers between pairs of bolts ?? I wonder if they are available from VX  6 of those and 12 new bolts shouldn't break the bank .. and a replacement driveshaft/CV Joint from Omegod might see the job done ...  ?

My EPC gives:

90095191 for the "plate, driveshaft to flange"

and

90497578 for the "screw, driveshaft to flange M10 x 48"
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 September 2016, 21:30:29
The driveshafts on Omegods 2.6 will be perfect :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 04 September 2016, 21:52:37
The driveshafts on Omegods 2.6 will be perfect :y

Replace both sides or just the broken one ??
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 September 2016, 23:19:31
The driveshafts on Omegods 2.6 will be perfect :y

Replace both sides or just the broken one ??
I would suggest both if the cause is unknown :-\
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Rods2 on 05 September 2016, 02:42:09
During those 42,000 miles, have you replaced a wheel bearing on that side?
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: omegod on 05 September 2016, 06:45:56
Hi, I won't be able to remove the shafts until tomorrow as i'm being dragged to Alton Towers today with little Omegod, will PM you later
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 September 2016, 10:43:46
I would replace all of the bolts. They are stretch bolts, and they may have come loose due to losing their "yield". Also worth cleaning it all up and using a bit of threadlock on the bolts.

I doubt the CV joints will have been damaged. Might be worth cleaning them up and re-packing with grease on final assembly though.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 05 September 2016, 13:18:16
Right .. latest update .. and thanks for all the support and help so far ... Reconnected drive shaft best as I could, 2 bolts sitting proud, levelled both sides by jacking under bottom shock mount .... ran it..... no noises from gearbox or diff but the right hand CV joint was making sorry sounds and kept "snatching".

Next task to remove right hand drive shaft .. took nearly three hours as the damage done to the "dome" ensured it would not slide past the hub mounting face. Nearly resorted to removing the shock absorber and rear tie rod but had a eureka moment that worked and with a bit of fiddling and brute force off it came.

6 bolts, 2 of which are no longer true, and 3 plates, which show some signs of wear but nothing excessive

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/DSC_3286.jpg)

Damaged drive shaft ........  :(

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/DSC_3287.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/DSC_3288.jpg)

Poor picture of hub from the rear .. no sign of any damage to my untrained eye...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/DSC_3289.jpg)

Removed the other drive shaft as I was already filthy and the car was in the air ... 10 minutes in total !!!!!!!!!!!

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85356592/DSC_3290.jpg)

I decided to use a torque wrench to undo the bolts on this side just for interest, 2 of the 6 were MUCH looser than the other 4 ....

Plan * (whatever we have reached) ...  order two complete drive shafts from Omegod, who is having a nice day out at Alton Towers, and visit VX to try and get 12 bolts and 6 plates, just hoping that no damage has been done to the diff or gearbox. I have not run it with the drive shafts removed as I suspect all I would do is throw diff oil everywhere !

What oil do I need for the diff ?? I'm tempted to suck as much of the old oil out via the drive shaft holes and replace once all refitted
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: amba on 05 September 2016, 13:31:00
For the small extra bit of work and total peace of mind with the diff might be worth while removing the face plate as that will ensure all the old oil is fully drained.Will give you the oppurtunity of looking at the crown wheel to ensure no broken teeth or fragments of metal inside.

Just give it a thorough clean and reseal the plate with loctite sealant or a similar silicone seal,then refill diff with Hypoid 90.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: sassanach on 05 September 2016, 13:32:12
i suspect that if you take off the driveshaft cv joint  cover and beat out the damage with a hammer,the horrible noises you mention will disappear. ps why are you changing the other driveshaft?
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: amba on 05 September 2016, 13:32:31
Should take about a ltr to be at correct level which needs to be check with car level and diff oil up to temperature..as with autobox...fill it till it starts to drip out :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 05 September 2016, 13:39:23
i suspect that if you take off the driveshaft cv joint  cover and beat out the damage with a hammer,the horrible noises you mention will disappear. ps why are you changing the other driveshaft?

Hello Stranger .. long time no see, called by your premises a few times but never anyone in !! Hope you are keeping well. I keep regaling the forum about your ability to change a rear wheel bearing in less than an hour !!! and your "special" extractor tool !! - shame I never took photos....

With the damaged cover plate removed (it fell off all on its own) manually rotating the CV joint in various directions it does not feel as smooth as the undamaged one, certainly has some rough/higher resistance spots, so I think it is FUBAR

Changing both simply as a precaution and to have both the same "age" for want of a better word.

Regards

Nige

Thanks Amba .. will do as you advise  :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 September 2016, 13:41:03
just fit a single new drive shaft, nothing wrong with the other one.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: tigers_gonads on 05 September 2016, 16:14:26
Oh 'dangle berries'  :(

You should be able to move the box on with no problem if you need too.
Give us a shout if you go down that route and need the boxes history verifying mate  :)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Shackeng on 05 September 2016, 17:35:51
Pry bar/large flat screwdriver between diff case and drive shaft. Simply pops out :y

There is/was a gm repair kit...

I do wonder if all that mess is a result of complete joint failure... not sure if those bolts were actually tight enough :-\
Nige torqued them all to correct setting in mine & Chris`s (Shackeng) presence, then double-checked. ???

Can't equate this with the careful way this work was done :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 05 September 2016, 18:24:40
Pry bar/large flat screwdriver between diff case and drive shaft. Simply pops out :y

There is/was a gm repair kit...

I do wonder if all that mess is a result of complete joint failure... not sure if those bolts were actually tight enough :-\
Nige torqued them all to correct setting in mine & Chris`s (Shackeng) presence, then double-checked. ???

Can't equate this with the careful way this work was done :-\ :-\ :-\
Understood Chris, merely playing Devils Advocate... :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 05 September 2016, 18:30:01
Pry bar/large flat screwdriver between diff case and drive shaft. Simply pops out :y

There is/was a gm repair kit...

I do wonder if all that mess is a result of complete joint failure... not sure if those bolts were actually tight enough :-\
Nige torqued them all to correct setting in mine & Chris`s (Shackeng) presence, then double-checked. ???

Can't equate this with the careful way this work was done :-\ :-\ :-\

YUp .. agreed, but Kevin's comment

I would replace all of the bolts. They are stretch bolts, and they may have come loose due to losing their "yield". Also worth cleaning it all up and using a bit of threadlock on the bolts.

may be the key .. they were undone when Sassenach did the rear bearing, then again when the diff was changed, so they have been "stretched" 3 times.

New bolts on order from VX and 5 (!!) new plates as that is all there are in the whole world according to the stock computer ....  I guess reusing one plate won't make that much difference ... 
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 September 2016, 20:05:34
Pry bar/large flat screwdriver between diff case and drive shaft. Simply pops out :y

There is/was a gm repair kit...

I do wonder if all that mess is a result of complete joint failure... not sure if those bolts were actually tight enough :-\
Nige torqued them all to correct setting in mine & Chris`s (Shackeng) presence, then double-checked. ???

Can't equate this with the careful way this work was done :-\ :-\ :-\

YUp .. agreed, but Kevin's comment

I would replace all of the bolts. They are stretch bolts, and they may have come loose due to losing their "yield". Also worth cleaning it all up and using a bit of threadlock on the bolts.

may be the key .. they were undone when Sassenach did the rear bearing, then again when the diff was changed, so they have been "stretched" 3 times.

New bolts on order from VX and 5 (!!) new plates as that is all there are in the whole world according to the stock computer ....  I guess reusing one plate won't make that much difference ...

I've had similar bolts (Ford application, on my kit car) work loose once they've been re-used a few times.

I would certainly re-fit with threadlock too.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: sassanach on 05 September 2016, 20:12:40
i dunno about them being stretch bolts, i just did them up german style ie,"gudentite"
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Shackeng on 05 September 2016, 22:39:44
Pry bar/large flat screwdriver between diff case and drive shaft. Simply pops out :y

There is/was a gm repair kit...

I do wonder if all that mess is a result of complete joint failure... not sure if those bolts were actually tight enough :-\
Nige torqued them all to correct setting in mine & Chris`s (Shackeng) presence, then double-checked. ???

Can't equate this with the careful way this work was done :-\ :-\ :-\

YUp .. agreed, but Kevin's comment

I would replace all of the bolts. They are stretch bolts, and they may have come loose due to losing their "yield". Also worth cleaning it all up and using a bit of threadlock on the bolts.

may be the key .. they were undone when Sassenach did the rear bearing, then again when the diff was changed, so they have been "stretched" 3 times.



New bolts on order from VX and 5 (!!) new plates as that is all there are in the whole world according to the stock computer ....  I guess reusing one plate won't make that much difference ...

Sounds reasonable that they have exceeded their elastic limit. I hadn't realised they'd been off before, but in any case we would not have had access to any more at the time, I think it was a Saturday afternoon IIRC. :-\ :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Shackeng on 06 September 2016, 08:48:29
This is a useful heads up to any of us who have had these bolts removed for whatever reason. I shall be checking the ones on my TD at the earliest opportunity, as it has had both rear wheel bearings replaced. :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 08 September 2016, 20:40:10
Well the replacement driveshafts arrived this afternoon while I was away on the second part of fixing an old clients computer, which ended up being a faulty telephone extension cable and nowt wrong with the system at all !!! explains why I found no fault with it when I had it here !! another 2 hours wasted !!

Many thanks to omegod for the prompt and efficient supply of the parts. Both now fitted and torqued up .. although 50nM then 60° then 15° didn't feel that tight..... they will be checked every oil change now (5000 miles). Ran out of daylight at the end so all its had is a quick trip around the block, no nasty noises, vibrations or abnormal feel at all. Does feel very low at the back end, but perhaps that's because I've spent 6 weeks driving the Disco in a "sit up and beg" seat position, I'll check out the rear shockers tomorrow.

Once again, many thanks to everyone for all the positive inputs and advice, and a huge thanks (and apology) to Daz and tigers_gonads regarding the gearbox. That is being transported down to me in 10 days time and will be wrapped in clingfilm and stored in the shed as a spare, just in case. It now owes me far more than anyone would pay for a 2nd hand gearbox, so I might as well hang on to it.
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Shackeng on 09 September 2016, 14:46:54
Nige, given my recent experience of washer failure after only '27K' and the hard work your box has done, I would recommend a gearbox oil & filter change to confirm no sign of the dreaded thrust washer failure. Many sites recommend transmission oil change at 30k. :y
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 09 September 2016, 17:42:52
Nige, given my recent experience of washer failure after only '27K' and the hard work your box has done, I would recommend a gearbox oil & filter change to confirm no sign of the dreaded thrust washer failure. Many sites recommend transmission oil change at 30k. :y

Thought had crossed my mind .. but the filter and as much ATF as possible (both sumps dropped) were changed at "Guffers Meet" in 2011 at 10400, and it was a sod to do using a full ramp ... I don't think I fancy trying the same job on the drive on axle stands ........ :(
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Shackeng on 09 September 2016, 18:26:17
Nige, given my recent experience of washer failure after only '27K' and the hard work your box has done, I would recommend a gearbox oil & filter change to confirm no sign of the dreaded thrust washer failure. Many sites recommend transmission oil change at 30k. :y

Thought had crossed my mind .. but the filter and as much ATF as possible (both sumps dropped) were changed at "Guffers Meet" in 2011 at 10400, and it was a sod to do using a full ramp ... I don't think I fancy trying the same job on the drive on axle stands ........ :(
Thats how i always do mine, using a sump pump to empty rear sump makes it easier. I'm doing my 3.2 when I get back from holliers. 32'C here today! :D
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: TheBoy on 10 September 2016, 16:04:54
Did you threadlock the bolts to prevent a repeat?
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: Entwood on 10 September 2016, 17:03:41
Did you threadlock the bolts to prevent a repeat?

Yup  :)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: TheBoy on 10 September 2016, 17:12:32
Did you threadlock the bolts to prevent a repeat?

Yup  :)
Hopefully that's the end of that then

Job jobbed :)
Title: Re: P*****d off of Wootty Bassett
Post by: tigers_gonads on 13 September 2016, 12:08:11
Well the replacement driveshafts arrived this afternoon while I was away on the second part of fixing an old clients computer, which ended up being a faulty telephone extension cable and nowt wrong with the system at all !!! explains why I found no fault with it when I had it here !! another 2 hours wasted !!

Many thanks to omegod for the prompt and efficient supply of the parts. Both now fitted and torqued up .. although 50nM then 60° then 15° didn't feel that tight..... they will be checked every oil change now (5000 miles). Ran out of daylight at the end so all its had is a quick trip around the block, no nasty noises, vibrations or abnormal feel at all. Does feel very low at the back end, but perhaps that's because I've spent 6 weeks driving the Disco in a "sit up and beg" seat position, I'll check out the rear shockers tomorrow.

Once again, many thanks to everyone for all the positive inputs and advice, and a huge thanks (and apology) to Daz and tigers_gonads regarding the gearbox. That is being transported down to me in 10 days time and will be wrapped in clingfilm and stored in the shed as a spare, just in case. It now owes me far more than anyone would pay for a 2nd hand gearbox, so I might as well hang on to it.




No worries Nige  :)

In a year or two's time, you will be laughing about it all  :y :y