Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: anV6 on 12 October 2016, 23:21:09
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Hi,
I have always liked the Omegas, including the A. I have finally decided to buy an Omega B.
I would like to do some tuning to the engine and performance. So I'm undecided what is my best option between the 3.0 and 3.2.
I have heard and read conflicting info with some saying the 3.0 has more potential for tuning and can make more HP than the 3.2 because of that. While others saying while true it may be easier to increase power in the 3.0 you would be basically only increasing to as much as is also possible with the 3.2. Meaning you would not pass it.
Now I'm not thinking of turbo charging or super charging or anything crazy. I want to keep it naturally aspirated. If I could squeeze about 50hp more I would be very happy.
So what should I buy, 3.0 or 3.2?
It has to be a manual gearbox. But I guess both were available in manual if I'm not wrong.
Thanks in advance.
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It has to be a manual gearbox. But I guess both were available in manual if I'm not wrong.
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Fortunately both are few & far between ;) :y
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Hi,
I'm not sure what you mean? I guess you mean there are not so many manuals? But then why fortunately?
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Hi,
I'm not sure what you mean? I guess you mean there are not so many manuals? But then why fortunately?
Tongue in cheek ..... sorry, it's your first post. :-[ Manual was a no cost option, auto was the default gearbox. Some obsess over wanting to be in control with 3 pedals while others just put their car into dive :y
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The engines aren't particularily suitable for tuning, and I cant see any way of getting another 50bhp out of one without spending a lot of money.
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Possibly one or two people on here,would be able to give some pointers for your project,HooverMig is currently going down the supercharging route and I think NickW is pretty up on what's involved.Alternatively just get yourself a supercharged VXR8,bit bigger than the Omega and frigg me does it get down the road if that's what you want or driven sensibly it turns in a comparable fuel consumption figure to the 3.2. :-\
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The 'most tuneable' is the 2.5, on the grounds that it has the least power - you can get close to (some say a fraction over) 200bhp with some relatively low-cost mods. Though the argument is 'just buy a 3.0/3.2 in the first place' - which is a fair argument. But you'll not be able to tune it very far, as said, keeping it naturally aspirated. And they don't like forced induction very much either!
NO idea how people manage to get 300bhp out of the old C20XE, yet struggle to get more than 220bhp out of the 3.2!
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In the UK, the 3.2 wasn't available with a manual gearbox to the public although I think the Police may have had manual 3.2 cars.
I haven't seen any packages for the 3.2 but Courtenay Turbo did a turbo conversion for the 3.0 V6 although it didn't dramatically increase power but gave more torque.
Steinmetz did a supercharger conversion for the 3.0 V6 but for left hand drive cars only that took power up to around 272PS I think.
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There are pros and cons with both engines. 3.2 has a forged crankshaft and more cubes, but lower compression. 3.0 shares the same geometry as the C20XE, meaning potentially more tuning parts available.
Neither engines have any sort of track record in tuning, meaning it will be a very lonely and expensive road to travel. There is folklore of the bottom ends not handling significant power hikes well, and of cooling problems with tuned V6s.
It's a case of "I wouldn't have started here". The Omega has a decent sized engine bay and conventional layout, so an engine swap for something with better tuning pedigree would be my first step.
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One of my 3.2's has had a remap and is claimed to be putting out 241 bhp,and comparing it to my other 3.2 there does seem to be a difference in performance and fuel consumption but hey they're 3.2's a nd they'll get you down the road to a driving ban quick enough in standard guise. :o:oAlso there's another view that the 3.0 is a bit quicker than the 3.2 albeit the way it delivers the power,so it would be advised if possible to get a drive of both and make an educated choice for the basis of your project :-\ :)
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Thanks for all the replies.
Yes, I heard that the 2.5 and 3.0 are more tunable and I suspected that was on the grounds that they start with less power. But if the limit is about the same as the 3.2 might as well go with the 3.2 and not bother with upgrades, right?
But the question of how people manage to get 300bhp out of the old C20XE, yet struggle to get more than 220bhp out of the 3.2 is a good one. I would like to know that too. Is the V6 just a bad design or what is the issue?
The VXR8 is a good idea, except it was never sold in LHD and I currently live in the continent. So I need a LHD car. The good thing is Omegas seem way more available in continental Europe than back in the UK. And I'm glad to find out the 3.2 is available here with a manual. The reason I asked is because I had heard the 3.2 was auto only. But now I know that is for the UK. Here 3.2 manuals are available.
The reason I would like to avoid turbos and superchargers is because they are complex, expensive and I really dislike the sound that both make. I want the natural grow of the engine and want power also available at lower RPMs. I also read the V6 doesn't cope well with neither turbos or superchargers.
As for just doing an engine swap, I'm not really interested in that. Before doing that I would just buy another car then. Too much work and money.
I'm a bit surprised that it seems so hard to tune the V6 to get a mere extra 50hp without a turbo or supercharger. I have seen remap packages claiming an extra 27hp which would get me past half the way to 50hp extra. Then I thought it wouldn't be a problem to get the other 23hp on the exhaust, chip and other small mods. I also found some tuning info over at the Cadillac Catera forums which claims to add about 30hp. It's for the Catera but we all know it's the same car. He says he got the advice from this forums, which is how I got to there. If it's ok to post a link, I can post it. But he is a sum of what he said:
"1. 3.2 Liter - Engine Block w/ all its internal parts, Exhaust Manifolds, Fuel Pressure Regulator, and Head Gaskets
2. 3.0 Liter - Intake Plenum, Velocity Stacks, Fuel Delivery System, Throttle Bodies, TPS, Intake & Exhaust Cams, Exhaust Valves, Oil Pan, ECU, Sensors, Ancillary Components, and "Front Pipe" (modified flange)
3. 2.5 Liter - Saab 900 Cylinderheads (intake passages require porting)
After all this we end up with a 200cc displacement increase, a stronger crankshaft, a higher compression ratio, the best camshafts, the best fuel delivery set-up, freer flowing "factory headers", and an increase in horsepower anywhere from 20 to 30HP over the 220 HP of the stock 3.2L V6 plus more useable torque, all with stock GM parts. Sounds easier than swapping in an SC3800 V6 or an LS1 V8, doesn't it? True, not as powerful than either of those two but with them you'd have to do lots of custom fabrication, and maybe install a stronger transmission."
So I thought the above mods plus a remap should be good for around 57HP more. But I guess it's not really that way?
The reason I'm looking at the Omega is I want a 4-door saloon with rear-wheel drive and a somewhat powerful engine. It would be better if it was European, but not a definitive must. But I don't want to go BMW or Mercedes. As I always liked the looks of all the Omegas I thought they would be a good option. I also don't want to spend a lot of money buying the car. So not many other 4-door saloons with rear-wheel drive, a somewhat powerful engine, relatively modern, readily available in Europe and not very expensive.
Thanks again.
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Nice amount of information. I had to google the Saab 900 heads - had no idea that engine went in the 900. It would certainly be interesting to see what difference there is - though one possible thought I'd had - was the Omega every available as a Catera in 2.5 guise? If not, perhaps this 'Saab 900 heads' thing is simply a way of (for Americans) acquiring the 2.5 heads easily, rather that try and source some from a European motor? Presumably this is a way of raising compression, but I theorise only.
I think initially, what you might want to do, is get yourself an Omega, in whatever engine size presents itself, have a drive. Next step would be a manual conversion, ans possibly change the diff (two things which will unleash a fair amount of 'oomf' without doing any engine work), then see how the car feels, you may well find it plenty good enough for your needs. :)
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I don't think the Catera was sold with the 2.5. But I think the reason for the Saab heads is because they are stronger. Because the Saab engine version was turbocharged. So the engine had to be modified and made stronger to cope.
What do you mean with a manual conversion? Omegas are readily available with a manual transmission. Unless I'm wrong? So I would be buying a manual already.
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Well, as a rule most (and I think the number was around 75%) of Omega are Autos. The only reason I say 'manual conversion' if that when you find 'the' car, that's top condition, well looked after, lots of servicing, and all the other things you should search for when buying an older car... it's probably going to be an automatic. If you wait until a manual car comes along you may be waiting a long time. You might get lucky, but don't be afraid of passing up mint Auto 3.0/3.2 cars, until you find a car that's got a few problems, but you buy it just because it's a manual. That's all :)
This same argument comes up every now and then with people waiting for an Elite, they only want to buy an Elite. I say - buy yourself the first mint, low mileage Omega you see - all the toys and niceties can be bought second hand for very cheap, it's easier to install a gearbox, or heated seats, than it is removing some hidden chassis rust the MoT man finds :)
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I see your point and it's definitely a good one. :y
But I believe you are speaking from the perspective of buying in the UK right? Speaking of the Vauxhall Omega?
Because the Opel Omega seems to be readily available in manual. At least this is the impression I get while looking at local classifieds here.
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Because the Opel Omega seems to be readily available in manual. At least this is the impression I get while looking at local classifieds here.
In the UK, as said above, 3.0 were by default auto unless you ordered a manual. 3.2 manual were only available to the police and not to Joe Public ..... Euroland might have been different :-\
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Very glad they're more commonplace there, then. If it makes your search easier then all the better :)
I know that to British eyes, there's still lots of saloon cars seen in mainland Europe. Of course to European eyes, we must look very odd for our complete lack of interest in saloon cars, favouring hatchbacks for anything A-B or C-segment. :)
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What do you mean with a manual conversion? Omegas are readily available with a manual transmission. Unless I'm wrong? So I would be buying a manual already.
Well that will limit you to the 3.0 then as the 3.2 only ever came with an Auto in Retail, unless you can find a decent Ex Police 3.2 Manual, as they had the added benefit of an R30 Manual Box which is good for Added HP and would probably also come with the correct Diff Ratio to suit and in LSD form. Rare find these days, well one thats not been totally ragged anyway.
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It seems it was indeed different. Autos are still more common among the bigger engine cars. But manuals are not an unicorn.
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Living in Euroland, you might have access to other GfM products...
Before dismissing the VXR8, have a rummage for a Pontiac G8 GT :y essentially the same car...
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Yes, they are the same car. But very rare here among with the GTO. And if you find one, the seller thinks he has a Bentley in his hands. ;D
Not worth it in my opinion.
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You need to be very careful of how the power increases from the various mix and match parts are 'calculated.' It is much more of an optimistic guess. This sort of thing has long been a pub game of I fitted a different air filter which MUST be worth 10hp, a new exhaust another 20hp, and some 'special spark plugs' have got to be another five. Added at the same time that's easily a 45hp increase. In reality, old engines like BL's A-series, Rover V8 or Ford's crossflow were so crap that it was difficult not to improve it. This isn't the case with a modern engine. Even small gains cost a packet. That's proved by your 300hp C20XE example: list what's required to make that sort of power, and add up what it costs. That came from several years intensive development for motorsport, something that the V6 hasn't had. Tuning parts are available, including cams and throttle body inlet manifolds, and I reckon that with some properly developed cylinder heads(horrendously costly process that requires more than just sticking your finger down a port and 5 minutes with a Dremel)you could break 300hp without too much trouble. But you will spend a huge amount of money doing it.
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It seems it was indeed different. Autos are still more common among the bigger engine cars. But manuals are not an unicorn.
I'd agree with that.... keeping an eye out in the marketplace I'd say the proportion is roughly 85% / 15%. Seems to be more 2.2 manuals than the bigger engines, and noticed a high proportion of big engined manuals in Ireland & N.I. Just what I've noticed myself, but could be looking in the wrong places :-[
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OK. It seems I stand corrected. :(
Doing some more research, it looks like Opel also only sold the 3.2 with an auto box, like Vauxhall did. Pity.
Since the 3.0 is quite common with a manual and I also saw one 3.2 manual for sale, I thought the 3.2 also came in manual. But it looks like the one 3.2 manual I saw online for sale was probably a conversion.
But the 3.0 manual is indeed way more available than back in the UK. I think the reason is in continental Europe most people like manual cars.
Now the question is, is the 3.2 better than the 3.0? Because it only makes 7hp more. But the 3.0 is easier to tune up it seems.
So is the 3.2 better, and that much better than the 3.0 to warrant buying one and doing a manual conversion rather than just buying a manual 3.0?
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How about ex police Opel 3.2 manuals?
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Not even sure the police here ever used them. I don't think so. Regardless it will be very difficult to find if they did use them. I have never seen them for sale.
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Not even sure the police here ever used them. I don't think so. Regardless it will be very difficult to find if they did use them. I have never seen them for sale.
Swiss, Austrians and Germans all did :y
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OK. It seems I stand corrected. :(
Doing some more research, it looks like Opel also only sold the 3.2 with an auto box, like Vauxhall did. Pity.
Since the 3.0 is quite common with a manual and I also saw one 3.2 manual for sale, I thought the 3.2 also came in manual. But it looks like the one 3.2 manual I saw online for sale was probably a conversion.
But the 3.0 manual is indeed way more available than back in the UK. I think the reason is in continental Europe most people like manual cars.
Now the question is, is the 3.2 better than the 3.0? Because it only makes 7hp more. But the 3.0 is easier to tune up it seems.
So is the 3.2 better, and that much better than the 3.0 to warrant buying one and doing a manual conversion rather than just buying a manual 3.0?
There's a chap on here with a good deal of knowledge of this question - which is the 'best engine' the answer is - several.
MarksDTM suggestion is the 'ultimate' Vauxhall/Opel V6 is
"So.....from the stock GM parts bin.
3.2 inlet with injectors or fit 3.0 and the FPR from a 2.6/3.2 (slight increased rail pressure, worth having as it costs nothing)
3.2/3.0 inlet divider plate
2.5/2.6 heads which must be ported to match the inlet divider (2.5/2.6 heads have smaller ports than the 3.0/3.2) and 3.0/3.2 exhaust valves (sodium filled)
3.0 cams
3.2 bottom end
2.6/3.2 exhaust manifolds
2.5/3.0 front pipes and cats
3.0 electronics including DIS pack ecu etc with EGR blanked/removed and SAI removed
This gives the better injection setup (3.0), largest cc (3.2 which includes forged crank) with compression ratio restored (2.5/2.6 heads have a smaller combustion chamber), best flowing inlet and exhaust setup."
If you're really after making the best of the best, this is the way. As for just buying either a 3.0 or a 3.2, then it's apples and oranges, horses for courses. (sorry if they're meaningless English phrases, what I mean is there's advocates and reasons to own either) :)
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3.2 all day long...
1. It's newer, so the car it is attached to will be less rusty.
2. It has less emissions plumbing.
3. It has a forged crank, which makes it the preferred choice for tuning as it's less likely to snap.
4. Last but not least, 3.2 sounds better than 2.5.
:y
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OK. It seems I stand corrected. :(
Doing some more research, it looks like Opel also only sold the 3.2 with an auto box, like Vauxhall did. Pity.
Since the 3.0 is quite common with a manual and I also saw one 3.2 manual for sale, I thought the 3.2 also came in manual. But it looks like the one 3.2 manual I saw online for sale was probably a conversion.
But the 3.0 manual is indeed way more available than back in the UK. I think the reason is in continental Europe most people like manual cars.
Now the question is, is the 3.2 better than the 3.0? Because it only makes 7hp more. But the 3.0 is easier to tune up it seems.
So is the 3.2 better, and that much better than the 3.0 to warrant buying one and doing a manual conversion rather than just buying a manual 3.0?
There's a chap on here with a good deal of knowledge of this question - which is the 'best engine' the answer is - several.
MarksDTM suggestion is the 'ultimate' Vauxhall/Opel V6 is
"So.....from the stock GM parts bin.
3.2 inlet with injectors or fit 3.0 and the FPR from a 2.6/3.2 (slight increased rail pressure, worth having as it costs nothing)
3.2/3.0 inlet divider plate
2.5/2.6 heads which must be ported to match the inlet divider (2.5/2.6 heads have smaller ports than the 3.0/3.2) and 3.0/3.2 exhaust valves (sodium filled)
3.0 cams
3.2 bottom end
2.6/3.2 exhaust manifolds
2.5/3.0 front pipes and cats
3.0 electronics including DIS pack ecu etc with EGR blanked/removed and SAI removed
This gives the better injection setup (3.0), largest cc (3.2 which includes forged crank) with compression ratio restored (2.5/2.6 heads have a smaller combustion chamber), best flowing inlet and exhaust setup."
If you're really after making the best of the best, this is the way. As for just buying either a 3.0 or a 3.2, then it's apples and oranges, horses for courses. (sorry if they're meaningless English phrases, what I mean is there's advocates and reasons to own either) :)
At first glance what you recommend looks similar to what I posted from the Cadillac Catera forums to tune that engine, which is the same V6. Did you see that list I posted?
How much power gain would you think your recommendations would provide?
Thanks for taking the time to write them in so much detail. :y
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Not even sure the police here ever used them. I don't think so. Regardless it will be very difficult to find if they did use them. I have never seen them for sale.
Swiss, Austrians and Germans all did :y
Good to know. But I haven't seen any for sale around though.
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3.2 all day long...
1. It's newer, so the car it is attached to will be less rusty.
2. It has less emissions plumbing.
3. It has a forged crank, which makes it the preferred choice for tuning as it's less likely to snap.
4. Last but not least, 3.2 sounds better than 2.5.
:y
Well, but to be honest I'm gravitating towards the 3.0. By all accounts it can be tuned more easily and get you more power than the 3.2. But the 3.2 seems to be hard to improve over it's stock 218hp.
Addressing your list point by point:
1. Yes, this seems to be the only real advantage. But if I can find a lower mileage 3.0 it wouldn't matter much. The 3.2 can only be 3 years newer. The 3.0 was made till 2000.
2. Ok. Duly noted, thanks. :)
3. But it seems you can install the 3.2 forged crank in the 3.0. Since I may working the engine anyway, this is a minor thing. Way easier than to have to replace the auto gearbox in the 3.2 with a manual. Because I must have a manual. I do not want an automatic. ;)
4. Well, I'm not considering the 2.5. Only the 3.0 ;)
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Not even sure the police here ever used them. I don't think so. Regardless it will be very difficult to find if they did use them. I have never seen them for sale.
Swiss, Austrians and Germans all did :y
Good to know. But I haven't seen any for sale around though.
Ex Police, you probably wont, as said not many around now, those who wanted them as keepers are keeping them, those who wanted them to drift have probably killed them, the rest probably got scrapped with people wanting the LSD and Stronger Suspension set up.
10 years ago you almost couldn't give them away.
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Disposal processes may well vary from country to country... Here they end up at public auction.
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Yes, I very much doubt I will be able to find an ex-police Omega around here. But I will keep my eyes open for sure.
By the way, does the Omega B share much with the Omega A? Specially in terms of chassis and suspension?
And how much trouble is it to switch front ends between the Omega B1 and B2? Are the headlights the same and only bumper and hood are different?
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Ok. I have made the decision to search for a 3.0 manual in great nick with as low mileage as possible.
But I will not pass on a 3.2 auto for a great price if it's in great nick. I will then convert it to manual. But it needs to be in absolutely great nick and for a great price.
Now I'm just undecided if I should absolutely go for a B2 or if B1 would be fine too. Since the 3.0 is available with both. But I'm not familiar wit the real differences. So I will start another thread about that.
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Being in euroland, how about the 2.5 DTi and chip it...
Just saying ;)
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Is it a diesel? If yes, then nope. I want a petro. ;)
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Straight 6 Bmw lump with 150bhp... Can be retuned to Bmw outputs or potentially replaced with a 3.5 lump and we'll over 200bhp...
But yes, diesel :-\
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But if you have to work just to get 200bhp, why not just stick with the 3.0 which has 207bhp outight?
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So is the 3.2 better, and that much better than the 3.0 to warrant buying one and doing a manual conversion rather than just buying a manual 3.0?
Depends what you want to achieve.
If its a simple "whats best without doing too much" then without doubt, the 3.0l is the superior engine. I have one of each currently sat on the driveway, and have been lucky enough to have driven hundreds of the bloody things, more than enough to confirm my 2 aren't unique in their power characteristics.
Anyone claiming otherwise either had a dog of a 3.0l, or an "Imber-ised" 3.2. Or has poor memory of the other.
Both can be remapped (replacing eprom in 3.0l, flashed in 3.2) to give usable gains. Anything else will start to cost proper money for tiny gains.
The 3.0l can benefit from 3.2 exhaust manifolds, and the 3.2 can benefit from 3.0l downpipes/cats. The benefits are probably not enough to warrant the effort and expenditure unless they needed removing anyway.
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So is the 3.2 better, and that much better than the 3.0 to warrant buying one and doing a manual conversion rather than just buying a manual 3.0?
Depends what you want to achieve.
If its a simple "whats best without doing too much" then without doubt, the 3.0l is the superior engine. I have one of each currently sat on the driveway, and have been lucky enough to have driven hundreds of the bloody things, more than enough to confirm my 2 aren't unique in their power characteristics.
Anyone claiming otherwise either had a dog of a 3.0l, or an "Imber-ised" 3.2. Or has poor memory of the other.
Both can be remapped (replacing eprom in 3.0l, flashed in 3.2) to give usable gains. Anything else will start to cost proper money for tiny gains.
The 3.0l can benefit from 3.2 exhaust manifolds, and the 3.2 can benefit from 3.0l downpipes/cats. The benefits are probably not enough to warrant the effort and expenditure unless they needed removing anyway.
Thanks! It is great to hear from somebody who has both.
How much power would you say remapping really adds? Do you have your 3.0 and 3.2 remapped?
I would also be very interesting in what you think of the 2 sets of suggestions to enhance performance posted on this thread.
To make it easier for you to find, I will just repost them here:
Suggestion 1:
"1. 3.2 Liter - Engine Block w/ all its internal parts, Exhaust Manifolds, Fuel Pressure Regulator, and Head Gaskets
2. 3.0 Liter - Intake Plenum, Velocity Stacks, Fuel Delivery System, Throttle Bodies, TPS, Intake & Exhaust Cams, Exhaust Valves, Oil Pan, ECU, Sensors, Ancillary Components, and "Front Pipe" (modified flange)
3. 2.5 Liter - Saab 900 Cylinderheads (intake passages require porting)
After all this we end up with a 200cc displacement increase, a stronger crankshaft, a higher compression ratio, the best camshafts, the best fuel delivery set-up, freer flowing "factory headers", and an increase in horsepower anywhere from 20 to 30HP over the 220 HP of the stock 3.2L V6 plus more useable torque, all with stock GM parts. Sounds easier than swapping in an SC3800 V6 or an LS1 V8, doesn't it? True, not as powerful than either of those two but with them you'd have to do lots of custom fabrication, and maybe install a stronger transmission."
Suggestion 2:
"3.2 inlet with injectors or fit 3.0 and the FPR from a 2.6/3.2 (slight increased rail pressure, worth having as it costs nothing)
3.2/3.0 inlet divider plate
2.5/2.6 heads which must be ported to match the inlet divider (2.5/2.6 heads have smaller ports than the 3.0/3.2) and 3.0/3.2 exhaust valves (sodium filled)
3.0 cams
3.2 bottom end
2.6/3.2 exhaust manifolds
2.5/3.0 front pipes and cats
3.0 electronics including DIS pack ecu etc with EGR blanked/removed and SAI removed
This gives the better injection setup (3.0), largest cc (3.2 which includes forged crank) with compression ratio restored (2.5/2.6 heads have a smaller combustion chamber), best flowing inlet and exhaust setup.
If you're really after making the best of the best, this is the way. As for just buying either a 3.0 or a 3.2, then it's apples and oranges, horses for courses. (sorry if they're meaningless English phrases, what I mean is there's advocates and reasons to own either)
Thanks for your input.
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What you overlook is that the stock 2.5 DTi produces as much torque as the 3.2 ;)
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What you overlook is that the stock 2.5 DTi produces as much torque as the 3.2 ;)
But the stock 2.5 DTi is listed as outputting 148bhp and the 3.2 is listed as outputting 215bhp. ???
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What you overlook is that the stock 2.5 DTi produces as much torque as the 3.2 ;)
But the stock 2.5 DTi is listed as outputting 148bhp and the 3.2 is listed as outputting 215bhp. ???
Torque is the same though...
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What you overlook is that the stock 2.5 DTi produces as much torque as the 3.2 ;)
But the stock 2.5 DTi is listed as outputting 148bhp and the 3.2 is listed as outputting 215bhp. ???
Torque is the same though...
Yeah, sure. Same torque and much less bhp. I'm not seeing the advantage. What am I missing? Thanks.
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https://www.quora.com/What-does-torque-do-in-a-car :y
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Ahh torquists. They're the ones who start going backwards just off the traffic lights as they grab the next gear.. while I'm still about 2k from the red line. ;D
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https://www.quora.com/What-does-torque-do-in-a-car :y
Well, I know what torque is. :)
But I still don't see your point. The 2.5 has the same torque and less bhp. If it had more torque, OK I could at least see some advantage. But it has less bhp and the same torque. And it's a diesel. Why do you think it is more desirable than the 3.0? I don't see it.
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It has better tuning potential as it is already turbocharged. Also the later 3.0/3.5 straight 6 will bolt straight in. And they're commonly available with a manual box. Summat the Omega V6 tends to lack.
Tuning the 3.0/3.2 v6 is on a hiding to nothing... cost vs gains.
If outright performance for sensible cost is what you seek, then start with a 2.0/2.2. These can be turbocharged for peanuts and easily make more power, more reliably than any Omega v6 ;)
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How much power would you say remapping really adds?
Claims are around 10%. I'd suggest that's on the optimistic side, but the gain is noticeable, so must be getting towards that figure.
I would also be very interesting in what you think of the 2 sets of suggestions to enhance performance posted on this thread.
Personally, I'd go for 2. If you have a 3.0l, you only need a 3.2 engine with manifolds still attached to achieve. But not aware of anyone who tried it. Darth Loo-knee did something not massively dissimilar with a 2.6 bottom end and I think a 3l top, fastest 2.6 I've ever driven... ...and I was surprised he let me, as he always said I drove like a knob ;D
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It has better tuning potential as it is already turbocharged. Also the later 3.0/3.5 straight 6 will bolt straight in. And they're commonly available with a manual box. Summat the Omega V6 tends to lack.
Tuning the 3.0/3.2 v6 is on a hiding to nothing... cost vs gains.
If outright performance for sensible cost is what you seek, then start with a 2.0/2.2. These can be turbocharged for peanuts and easily make more power, more reliably than any Omega v6 ;)
Now I'm starting to understand what you see in the 2.5 DTi. :)
But as I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, I don't want turbo chargers or super chargers. I dislike turbos and super chargers. I don't like the way they behave or the sound they make. I want to keep it NA. So a turbo charged engine is not interesting to me at all. I also don't want diesel. So this is 2 strikes against the 2.5 DTi. It's a diesel and it's a turbo. It also disqualifies the 2.0 or 2.2. I don't want turbos. ;)
The option of dropping the older straight 6 engine right in is an interesting one though. So is it really a straight bolt on? Nothing custom need to be made? And which later 3.5 straight 6 are you talking about? The Carlton/Omega-A only came with a 3.0. There were 3.6 ones by Lotus and Irmscher and also a 4.0 from Irmscher. And those were very special engines and very hard to find and very expensive. But I never knew of a 3.5.
Although I still don't see much advantage in dropping the 3.0 straight 6 in. The max. it ever produced was 201bhp and that is if I'm lucky enough to find an engine from the 3000GSi. The rest of them never produced more than 175bhp. The 3.0 V6 produces 208bhp stock. With a remapping it seems it would go up to around 228bhp. How much more can you tune the straight 6 to produce without a turbo or super charger? If it was capable of much more I would think Irmscher would have done it. Yet, the very, very special and tuned Irmscher Evo500 produced only 230bhp.
So what advantage are you seeing in the 3.0 straight 6 over the V6? To me it looks like I would have to spend money to buy a straight 6, then spend money to drop it in, then spend more money to get it up to what the V6 already gives me. Again, I may be missing something incredibly obvious, and if so please feel free to point it out. :)
Thanks!
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How much power would you say remapping really adds?
Claims are around 10%. I'd suggest that's on the optimistic side, but the gain is noticeable, so must be getting towards that figure.
10% doesn't sound bad for the price. So both your 3.0 and 3.2 are remapped?
I would also be very interesting in what you think of the 2 sets of suggestions to enhance performance posted on this thread.
Personally, I'd go for 2. If you have a 3.0l, you only need a 3.2 engine with manifolds still attached to achieve. But not aware of anyone who tried it. Darth Loo-knee did something not massively dissimilar with a 2.6 bottom end and I think a 3l top, fastest 2.6 I've ever driven... ...and I was surprised he let me, as he always said I drove like a knob ;D
Do you mean I should swap the 3.0 engine for a 3.2 or do you mean I should only install the 3.2 manifolds on the 3.0?
How much more power would you guess the changes suggested on set 1 and set 2 would produce?
Thanks.
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When I said bigger straight 6 I meant the diesel ;)
Thinking the 3.0/3.5 from the 530/535d :y
But if you don't want diesel or forced induction then all you can really do is try and make it breathe a bit better :-\
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Forget the straight six C30SE engine, one of the guys on the ABS forum dropped one in a Monza and spent a bit of money on the engine and the best he got was 245bhp, add to the fact that timing chain guides are NLS as are the crank and cam sprockets and it can get very expensive.
If you want a faster four door saloon buy an M5, but if you really want an Omega then just accept there`s not a lot you can do to it and just enjoy it for the car it is :y
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When I said bigger straight 6 I meant the diesel ;)
Thinking the 3.0/3.5 from the 530/535d :y
But if you don't want diesel or forced induction then all you can really do is try and make it breathe a bit better :-\
Ok, I see. Yep, no diesels. Thanks.
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Forget the straight six C30SE engine, one of the guys on the ABS forum dropped one in a Monza and spent a bit of money on the engine and the best he got was 245bhp, add to the fact that timing chain guides are NLS as are the crank and cam sprockets and it can get very expensive.
If you want a faster four door saloon buy an M5, but if you really want an Omega then just accept there`s not a lot you can do to it and just enjoy it for the car it is :y
I don't have the intention to turn the Omega into a sports car. Just trying to see if I can squeeze a bit more performance out of it as it's a heavy car and today any modern car is already crossing the 200bhp mark. If I could squeeze an extra 50bhp or even 40bhp I would already be happy. Not thinking of 300bhp +. :)
What I want is a four door saloon with rear-wheel drive and a manual gearbox, which is not a BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Japanese and which doesn't cost a lot.
So it seems the Omega is the only one.(?) And since I have always liked the way the look...
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Forget the straight six C30SE engine, one of the guys on the ABS forum dropped one in a Monza and spent a bit of money on the engine and the best he got was 245bhp, add to the fact that timing chain guides are NLS as are the crank and cam sprockets and it can get very expensive.
If you want a faster four door saloon buy an M5, but if you really want an Omega then just accept there`s not a lot you can do to it and just enjoy it for the car it is :y
I don't have the intention to turn the Omega into a sports car. Just trying to see if I can squeeze a bit more performance out of it as it's a heavy car and today any modern car is already crossing the 200bhp mark. If I could squeeze an extra 50bhp or even 40bhp I would already be happy. Not thinking of 300bhp +. :)
What I want is a four door saloon with rear-wheel drive and a manual gearbox, which is not a BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Japanese and which doesn't cost a lot.
So it seems the Omega is the only one.(?) And since I have always liked the way the look...
Yeah not much else other than the omega after ruling all those out ;D TBH though 40-50bhp would cost a lot of money and work and it`s not like there`s a back catalogue of tuning parts either.
I like the way they look too, especially in MV6 guise, they`re a nice looking car 8)
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Forget the straight six C30SE engine, one of the guys on the ABS forum dropped one in a Monza and spent a bit of money on the engine and the best he got was 245bhp, add to the fact that timing chain guides are NLS as are the crank and cam sprockets and it can get very expensive.
If you want a faster four door saloon buy an M5, but if you really want an Omega then just accept there`s not a lot you can do to it and just enjoy it for the car it is :y
I don't have the intention to turn the Omega into a sports car. Just trying to see if I can squeeze a bit more performance out of it as it's a heavy car and today any modern car is already crossing the 200bhp mark. If I could squeeze an extra 50bhp or even 40bhp I would already be happy. Not thinking of 300bhp +. :)
What I want is a four door saloon with rear-wheel drive and a manual gearbox, which is not a BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Japanese and which doesn't cost a lot.
So it seems the Omega is the only one.(?) And since I have always liked the way the look...
Yeah not much else other than the omega after ruling all those out ;D TBH though 40-50bhp would cost a lot of money and work and it`s not like there`s a back catalogue of tuning parts either.
I like the way they look too, especially in MV6 guise, they`re a nice looking car 8)
Yeah, the Omegas look much better than the other Germans cars. Although price wise it's not that much cheaper than a 5 series of the same year and spec.
So you think 40-50bhp will be expensive? If remapping gets me around 20bhp already and costs around 200 quid by what I could find, will the other 20-30bhp really be that expensive?
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It has better tuning potential as it is already turbocharged. Also the later 3.0/3.5 straight 6 will bolt straight in.
OK. You got me a little intrigued, I must confess. Is it really a straight bolt on? And any of the BMW straight 6?
Because there is one of them with bloody 282bhp! :o
Yes, diesel and twin turbo though. But 282bhp is a lot. If it's really a straight drop in and the engine doesn't cost an arm and a leg, it's quite tempting. But if it is really that easy and not expensive, people should do it all the time? Is this a popular swap for Omegas?
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OK, will bolt straight in is misleading...
M57 should drop straight in, N57 also drop straight in if block fittings/dimensions are the same. Anything newer will be a wiring nightmare ;)
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OK, will bolt straight in is misleading...
M57 should drop straight in, N57 also drop straight in if block fittings/dimensions are the same. Anything newer will be a wiring nightmare ;)
The one with 282hp is from the M57 line, so good news if any M57 is an easy drop in.
The N57 is even better as the weakest starts already at 202bhp. The strongest is an insane 376bhp! Although I'm sure this engine alone costs several times the price of a 2003 Omega.
I wasn't holding my breath a petro straight 6 would be easy to fit. But if any M57 will be a straight bolt in, then it will all depend on the price of the engine and my ability of being able to get used to a turbo and a diesel.
Do you know anybody who has done a similar swap by the way?
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I wasn't holding my breath a petro straight 6 would be easy to fit.
C30SE swap has been done before as has the Lotus Carlton lump along with all the running gear but as far as the C30SE is concerned there isn`t any benefit as the engine is a bit heavier than the Omega engine.
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I wasn't holding my breath a petro straight 6 would be easy to fit.
C30SE swap has been done before as has the Lotus Carlton lump along with all the running gear but as far as the C30SE is concerned there isn`t any benefit as the engine is a bit heavier than the Omega engine.
Since Doctor Gollum and I were talking about the BMW straight 6 diesel, I meant the BMW straight 6 petro. Not the Opel straight 6. ;)
We have already discussed the old Opel straight 6 in the thread and deemed it not worthy of a swap. The Lotus version would definitely be worth it. But I doubt you can find one and even if it will cost several times the price of the Omega.
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Just re: your earlier point about 'ordinary cars' are often running with 200bhp (which I agree, it's nothing much to crow about these days) but on my way into work this morning I easily managed to get the back wheels to judder thanks - in part - to my lack of LSD, a mini roundabout, damp roads (and no-one about I might add). I've got the 'asthmatic' 2.5 V6 Auto that's as fast as a glacier with a hangover. But my point being, in terms of keeping up with modern traffic, no issue whatsoever. :y
I've left chavved 3series driver red faced and astonished this rusty old barge out paced him between traffic lights, kept pace with an AMG A-class that clearly thought a wallet thickness could make up for lack of driving ability, and never been beaten off the lights yet.
1.5 ton takes a bit of moving, and young Mr Fiesta ST might level-peg at first, but soon as your chav reaches for his gearchange, my 'rubbish old slushbox', still in 1st, is just reaching the top half of the rev range, and the power is really kicking in, and it's bye-bye Burberry cap. It's a smooth, seamless power(and torque) delivery with any of the V6s.
I don't want this to be read as if I'm ignoring your entire point, I'm not, just suggesting that they really are perfectly decent in every day driving, 3.0/3.2s and manuals even more so. :)
I do like the sound of fitting a later BMW unit, actually, certainly 'food for thought' and we know the Omega chassis handles large power increases, Monaros being the proof.
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Just re: your earlier point about 'ordinary cars' are often running with 200bhp (which I agree, it's nothing much to crow about these days) but on my way into work this morning I easily managed to get the back wheels to judder thanks - in part - to my lack of LSD, a mini roundabout, damp roads (and no-one about I might add). I've got the 'asthmatic' 2.5 V6 Auto that's as fast as a glacier with a hangover. But my point being, in terms of keeping up with modern traffic, no issue whatsoever. :y
I've left chavved 3series driver red faced and astonished this rusty old barge out paced him between traffic lights, kept pace with an AMG A-class that clearly thought a wallet thickness could make up for lack of driving ability, and never been beaten off the lights yet.
1.5 ton takes a bit of moving, and young Mr Fiesta ST might level-peg at first, but soon as your chav reaches for his gearchange, my 'rubbish old slushbox', still in 1st, is just reaching the top half of the rev range, and the power is really kicking in, and it's bye-bye Burberry cap. It's a smooth, seamless power(and torque) delivery with any of the V6s.
I don't want this to be read as if I'm ignoring your entire point, I'm not, just suggesting that they really are perfectly decent in every day driving, 3.0/3.2s and manuals even more so. :)
I do like the sound of fitting a later BMW unit, actually, certainly 'food for thought' and we know the Omega chassis handles large power increases, Monaros being the proof.
You make a fair point. I just want to try to squeeze everything I can from it.
The later BMW diesel transplant sounds interesting. But I think it would end up being very expensive since to make it worth it I would have to get a top of the range engine. No point in getting one with around 20bhp, as for that I can just get a 3.0 V6 car and be done with it.
So the Monaro V8/Pontiac GTO are really the very same chassis? They look incredibly like the Omega B. I get the impression the front wings, bonnet, bumper etc would bolt right on. It's like what an Omega would be in coupe version. What about the suspension in the Monaro? same as well?
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Similar but not identical. I believe the Monaro chassis is a few 10s of MM wider between the chassis rails, which will probably scupper interchanging a lot of parts.
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Similar but not identical. I believe the Monaro chassis is a few 10s of MM wider between the chassis rails, which will probably scupper interchanging a lot of parts.
Indeed, both subframes are different, and wider. Also, once you've stuffed an 4L30 into the transmission tunnel, you quickly appreciate the differences ;)
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Ok. If it's wider, then it means the bonnet may not be the same. But the wings definitely look exactly the same. But probably not. But the whole style cues are the same. It is effectively an Omega 2-doors.
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It is 'effectively' yes. You won't know as a newbie, but there's been plenty of discussion on the subject about the Omega and Holden derivatives being 'the same' or 'different' and the dictionary definition of both phrases, therein. And plenty of heated debate..
Just looking at what you mention - the wings aren't the same, if you look at the headlamps they're a different shape. From about half way along the wing length they're the about the same, though, as you say, same aesthetics, and various bits n bobs (rear subframe bushes, for instance) are the same, it's Pedders Monaro Poly bushes that many on here fit.
I would have imagined by now someone would have bought an accident damaged Monaro cheap, and fitted various Omega parts to make an 'Omega Coupe', and in doing so found exactly what is and isn't interchangeable, but alas, this doesn't seem to have happened yet. Much is down to opinion, rather than anyone actually taking a socket set to a couple of cars. :)
EDIT
Just check out the Wiki page about the Holden Commodore, and compare with respective Vauxhall / Opel Cars to see the evolution of the DNA. (namely the Carlton, Viceroy, Royale, Monza, Senator) :y
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore
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That is design evolution ;)
There are only two common parts to the Monaro running gear. One is the rear wheel bearing. This is the same part number as the Omega B estate. Tother is the rear flexi hose from the chassis to the trailing arm :y
There are also some parts which happen to fit, but this is as a byproduct of manufacturing streamlining rather than deliberate... base Monaro front calipers being a case in point. These bolt straight on.
The Monaro is based on the VT/VW/VZ Holden Commodore, but shares NO body panels (possibly excepting the front bumper and filler cap). It is designed to look similar.
This Commodore chassis is, like the Omega, an evolution of the Carlton/Senator B chassis in the same way that you and your sister are related but not the same. The Omega B is a cousin of the Monaro rather than its sister.
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Just looking at what you mention - the wings aren't the same, if you look at the headlamps they're a different shape. From about half way along the wing length they're the about the same, though, as you say, same aesthetics, and various bits n bobs (rear subframe bushes, for instance) are the same, it's Pedders Monaro Poly bushes that many on here fit.
What are the advantages of the Monaro bushes?
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Doctor Gollum, do you know of anybody who has done the BMW diesel swap? Or what inspired you to suggest it?
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Just that the 'doughnut' bushes as they're called are made from Poly, so last longer than conventional rubber. They are firmer, therefore tighten up the rear end handling, too. (though the original rubber ones last about 150/200k miles anyway) some say they spoil the Omega smooth waftable ride, some say they improve things nicely, without being too harsh.
They're a direct-fit straight swap. :)
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Just looking at what you mention - the wings aren't the same, if you look at the headlamps they're a different shape. From about half way along the wing length they're the about the same, though, as you say, same aesthetics, and various bits n bobs (rear subframe bushes, for instance) are the same, it's Pedders Monaro Poly bushes that many on here fit.
What are the advantages of the Monaro bushes?
They tighten up the rear subframe nicely for more spirited driving, and never wear out. Both improvements on the original items :y
Mr DBG is part correct... they fit well, but are slightly different dimensions.
This I know from days spent trawling through various parts catalogues trying to identify suitable upgrade parts for the Omega.
Re the diesel idea, knowing what limitation there is to tuning the V6s, both in terms of cost and durability, the only viable petrol alternatives are the 4 cylinder forced induction route, or the old school 'stick a v8 in it' approach.
Swapping the diesel makes sense as the car is configured for it. Omega Bs left the factory with BMW 6 cylinder diesels fitted, so in theory, the engine should physically drop straight in. Wiring is a different issue, but not a deal breaker... simply some patient head scratching should see it running ;)
Now here's the critical part... IF BMW petrol straight sixes share the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the diesels, then with a bit more work the M54/S54 petrol lump could be viable...
The diesel swap would obviously be more straight forward as the fuel is the same :y
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Just that the 'doughnut' bushes as they're called are made from Poly, so last longer than conventional rubber. They are firmer, therefore tighten up the rear end handling, too. (though the original rubber ones last about 150/200k miles anyway) some say they spoil the Omega smooth waftable ride, some say they improve things nicely, without being too harsh.
They're a direct-fit straight swap. :)
Sounds interesting and like something I would like to try. Thanks for bringing it up.
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Just looking at what you mention - the wings aren't the same, if you look at the headlamps they're a different shape. From about half way along the wing length they're the about the same, though, as you say, same aesthetics, and various bits n bobs (rear subframe bushes, for instance) are the same, it's Pedders Monaro Poly bushes that many on here fit.
What are the advantages of the Monaro bushes?
They tighten up the rear subframe nicely for more spirited driving, and never wear out. Both improvements on the original items :y
Mr DBG is part correct... they fit well, but are slightly different dimensions.
Yep, I guess I will definitely have to try them. By the way chaps, are they readily available to purchase online?
This I know from days spent trawling through various parts catalogues trying to identify suitable upgrade parts for the Omega.
Well, do tell! :)
What other upgrade parts for the Omega did you dig up?
Re the diesel idea, knowing what limitation there is to tuning the V6s, both in terms of cost and durability, the only viable petrol alternatives are the 4 cylinder forced induction route, or the old school 'stick a v8 in it' approach.
Swapping the diesel makes sense as the car is configured for it. Omega Bs left the factory with BMW 6 cylinder diesels fitted, so in theory, the engine should physically drop straight in. Wiring is a different issue, but not a deal breaker... simply some patient head scratching should see it running ;)
I see. If I could find the highest powered one for a good price I might go that route. Have you ever seen one for sale and for how much?
Now here's the critical part... IF BMW petrol straight sixes share the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the diesels, then with a bit more work the M54/S54 petrol lump could be viable...
The M54 is not worth it. The highest output is 228bhp. I can get basically that with a remapped V6 it seems. So it would have to be the S54 to make it worth the trouble. And again the question is the price of the engine, on top of how much trouble to do the job.
The diesel swap would obviously be more straight forward as the fuel is the same :y
Switching from diesel to petro will call for a whole lot more than just switching the engine right?
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Here do for subframe bushes...
http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/rear-end-pac--monaro-models-with-harrop-diff-cover_p23023672.htm :y
Nothing much else to report re the Monaro upgrades... Brakes have potential but wheel Pcd is different so custom discs required, which gets very expensive very quickly. Springs fit Omega saloon, but spring rates are well off as Monaro is a couple of hundred kgs lighter.
Higher output M57 from the 535d is probably the most straight forward approach...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-Series-X3-X5-X6-Diesel-Petrol-Engines-For-Sale-With-Warranty-/141924319043?fits=Car+Make%3ABMW%7CCars+Type%3A535d&hash=item210b593f43:g:5vAAAOSwh-1W30S5
Or this... http://www.copart.co.uk/uk/Lot/36756966?searchId=1246579797
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Thanks for the links.
I suspected the engine would be expensive. You can buy a reasonable Omega for that amount, right?
Then there will certainly be other purchases besides the engine before everything is said and done and the engine is inside and driveable, wouldn't you say?
All together it looks like in the end, after all is done, it will be a pretty expensive project. So after all the expense, will it still be cheaper than tuning the V6? The main problem in tuning the V6 seems to be mainly price right?
Nothing much else to report re the Monaro upgrades... Brakes have potential but wheel Pcd is different so custom discs required, which gets very expensive very quickly. Springs fit Omega saloon, but spring rates are well off as Monaro is a couple of hundred kgs lighter.
I didn't mean only from the Monaro. But any parts upgrades you may have found for the Omega which would improve the car. ;)
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Be aware that some of the more enthusiastic drivers here have had issues with the Monkfish rear doughnut bushes dislodging slightly, and needing to remove/refit.
As per usual, those who haven't experienced it clearly aren't trying hard enough.
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Be aware that some of the more enthusiastic drivers here have had issues with the Monkfish rear doughnut bushes dislodging slightly, and needing to remove/refit.
As per usual, those who haven't experienced it clearly aren't trying hard enough.
So am I better off sticking to the stock ones then?
By the way, what about differential? The car was available with different options right? I think chasing differentials will make the purchase way too difficult but I guess it's not a big deal to change them? Which one am I looking for if it doesn't come with it?
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Depends what you want to acheive...
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So am I better off sticking to the stock ones then?
Personally, I prefer the handling of the poly ones, so that's what I use.
Every time it starts steering from the back, I get chrisgixer to refit them.
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So am I better off sticking to the stock ones then?
Personally, I prefer the handling of the poly ones, so that's what I use.
Every time it starts steering from the back, I get chrisgixer to refit them.
Solidifying the rear diff mounts helps limit this requirement ime ;)
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Depends what you want to acheive...
What I would like to achieve is performance. Although I don't want a rough gokart ride. I would like to have something aka to a M5. A sports saloon I guess is what they are called? So not soft luxury. But also not a neck braking ride. ;)
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So am I better off sticking to the stock ones then?
Personally, I prefer the handling of the poly ones, so that's what I use.
Every time it starts steering from the back, I get chrisgixer to refit them.
Are the Poly ones you speak of the Holden ones?
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They are, yes :)
Mine offer no change to the handling whatsoever. I suspect because they're currently still in a box at my parents. ;)
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Depends what you want to acheive...
What I would like to achieve is performance. Although I don't want a rough gokart ride. I would like to have something aka to a M5. A sports saloon I guess is what they are called? So not soft luxury. But also not a neck braking ride. ;)
Get an M5. Nothing else will match that I'm afraid.
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Depends what you want to acheive...
What I would like to achieve is performance. Although I don't want a rough gokart ride. I would like to have something aka to a M5. A sports saloon I guess is what they are called? So not soft luxury. But also not a neck braking ride. ;)
Get an M5. Nothing else will match that I'm afraid.
They cost too much. I'm also not a an of BMWs. I don't really expect to match it though. It's just the direction I'm going for. I thought I would let people know since many are asking what I want with my upgrades. ;)
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I suppose, in a nutshell, you want an Omega 'MV5'/'M5V6' or an AMGega, or an 'RSMV6' then. I suppose that's Eibach springs, Bilstein B6s, and the poly route mentioned already, whatever nice interior bits you like, be it leather Recaros etc. plus Irmscher/Steinmetz bodykits if you wanted. There's been plenty on here done one, or all of these, to good results.
As for the engine, well, one bloke put an engine from a Nissan Skyline, or something, a bit ago, for 400bhp, or something insane, and the chassis handled it, by all accounts. I don't really 'care' about Jap cars, but someone will be able to remember what car it was from/a link to the thread. Very interesting it was too, he did some very nice brake upgrades also. :)
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RB26DETT - 2.6L inline 6, twin turbo. Expect a good used one to set you back several times the cost of an Omega. But 400hp would be a fairly mild tune..
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Or import a Pontiac G8GT, fit VXR8 brakes and lights and claim to have the onky lefthand drive VXR8 in existence 8)
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I suppose, in a nutshell, you want an Omega 'MV5'/'M5V6' or an AMGega, or an 'RSMV6' then. I suppose that's Eibach springs, Bilstein B6s, and the poly route mentioned already, whatever nice interior bits you like, be it leather Recaros etc. plus Irmscher/Steinmetz bodykits if you wanted. There's been plenty on here done one, or all of these, to good results.
As for the engine, well, one bloke put an engine from a Nissan Skyline, or something, a bit ago, for 400bhp, or something insane, and the chassis handled it, by all accounts. I don't really 'care' about Jap cars, but someone will be able to remember what car it was from/a link to the thread. Very interesting it was too, he did some very nice brake upgrades also. :)
I guess you are right with your 'MV5'/'M5V6' or an AMGega analogies. In a nutshell this is what I want. But RS, nope, thank you. ;D
But there is already a 'MV5'/'M5V6' or an AMGega. It's called a Steinmetz Omega. Problem is finding a real one which is not just a normal Omega with a body kit.
As for the engine, I am with you. Not a fan of Japanese cars, so would prefer to keep the engine Opel. If not possible then at least European. ;)
Problem is spending too much on an engine transplant is probably not wise. And if I would, it would have to be for a really substantial gain like 400bhp. Doing an engine swap to get 250-280bhp is not worth it if I can get 230bhp out of the V6 with a remap and some small mods.
And thanks a lot for the "recipe" for a 'MV5'/'M5V6' or an AMGega! Very much appreciated. :)
So with Eibach springs, Bilstein B6s, and the poly bushings, it would not become too stiff? And how much lower than the MV6 are the Eibach springs? I would rather not have it too low. Cops around here are very annoying about that.
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Or import a Pontiac G8GT, fit VXR8 brakes and lights and claim to have the onky lefthand drive VXR8 in existence 8)
I don't like the look of the Holdens. I don't know. I think they are too...Americanized, for lack of a better term. The Falcons for example do not give me that same vibe. It's not that I have anything against American cars. To the contrary actually. But if I want a U.S. car I just buy a U.S. car. ;)
I like the way the Omega looks way more than any of the Holden counterparts, including the VXR8. And for the price of importing a G8 I could tune a MV6 to beat a M5. ;D
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I think in terms of lowering this is answered in another thread nearby, but you can, of course, go as low as you 'want' but the rear is a 30mm limit, really, as the back end is low already. MV6 is 15mm lower than standard.
B4 is OEM replacement
B6 is a bit stiffer
B8 is touring car, super-stiff track-day stuff
:y
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=137647.0;topicseen
EDIT: [most recent] thread here... there've been hundreds over the years! :)
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I think in terms of lowering this is answered in another thread nearby, but you can, of course, go as low as you 'want' but the rear is a 30mm limit, really, as the back end is low already. MV6 is 15mm lower than standard.
B4 is OEM replacement
B6 is a bit stiffer
B8 is touring car, super-stiff track-day stuff
:y
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=137647.0;topicseen
EDIT: [most recent] thread here... there've been hundreds over the years! :)
Thanks for pointing me to that thread. I will take part.
According to it the Eibach springs are 30mm lower than stock. Sounds a bit much, but I will have to see if I find pictures of Omegas with 30mm lower suspension. If it looks like it has been custom lowered cops here will find a problem with it.
15mm for the MV6 sounds mild enough and since it's factory set they can't complain about it.
And I guess B6 would be what I'm looking for then. :y
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Or import a Pontiac G8GT, fit VXR8 brakes and lights and claim to have the onky lefthand drive VXR8 in existence 8)
I don't like the look of the Holdens. I don't know. I think they are too...Americanized, for lack of a better term. The Falcons for example do not give me that same vibe. It's not that I have anything against American cars. To the contrary actually. But if I want a U.S. car I just buy a U.S. car. ;)
I like the way the Omega looks way more than any of the Holden counterparts, including the VXR8. And for the price of importing a G8 I could buy an M5. ;D
Fixed.
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Or import a Pontiac G8GT, fit VXR8 brakes and lights and claim to have the onky lefthand drive VXR8 in existence 8)
I don't like the look of the Holdens. I don't know. I think they are too...Americanized, for lack of a better term. The Falcons for example do not give me that same vibe. It's not that I have anything against American cars. To the contrary actually. But if I want a U.S. car I just buy a U.S. car. ;)
I like the way the Omega looks way more than any of the Holden counterparts, including the VXR8. And for the price of importing a G8 I could buy an M5. ;D
Fixed.
LOL! ;D
Well, that too. But like I've been saying I'm not a fan of BMWs. So I would rather upgrade the Omega to as close as possible and keep the change. :D
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Or import a Pontiac G8GT, fit VXR8 brakes and lights and claim to have the onky lefthand drive VXR8 in existence 8)
I don't like the look of the Holdens. I don't know. I think they are too...Americanized, for lack of a better term. The Falcons for example do not give me that same vibe. It's not that I have anything against American cars. To the contrary actually. But if I want a U.S. car I just buy a U.S. car. ;)
I like the way the Omega looks way more than any of the Holden counterparts, including the VXR8. And for the price of importing a G8 I could buy an M5. ;D
Fixed.
LOL! ;D
Well, that too. But like I've been saying I'm not a fan of BMWs. So I would rather upgrade the Omega to as close as possible and keep the change. :D
Not very close then... ::) you'll end up at 530i M Sport levels. If you're lucky ;)
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Or import a Pontiac G8GT, fit VXR8 brakes and lights and claim to have the onky lefthand drive VXR8 in existence 8)
I don't like the look of the Holdens. I don't know. I think they are too...Americanized, for lack of a better term. The Falcons for example do not give me that same vibe. It's not that I have anything against American cars. To the contrary actually. But if I want a U.S. car I just buy a U.S. car. ;)
I like the way the Omega looks way more than any of the Holden counterparts, including the VXR8. And for the price of importing a G8 I could buy an M5. ;D
Fixed.
LOL! ;D
Well, that too. But like I've been saying I'm not a fan of BMWs. So I would rather upgrade the Omega to as close as possible and keep the change. :D
Not very close then... ::) you'll end up at 530i M Sport levels. If you're lucky ;)
Good enough to me. ;)
Although I'm sure speed alone you could do with £10K. That easily covers an Omega plus a powerful engine swap that could make it as fast as the M5 :)
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Or an M5 ::)
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Or an M5 ::)
But there hasn't been a good looking 5 series since the E34 and even that I'm not the biggest fan of. Besides it's a bit too old and hardly better than a Omega B. ;)
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Or an M5 ::)
But there hasn't been a good looking 5 series since the E34 and even that I'm not the biggest fan of. Besides it's a bit too old and hardly better than a Omega B. ;)
Have you driven one/any 5 Series?
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Or an M5 ::)
But there hasn't been a good looking 5 series since the E34 and even that I'm not the biggest fan of. Besides it's a bit too old and hardly better than a Omega B. ;)
Have you driven one/any 5 Series?
M5 not. 5 series, as well as 3 series and 7 series yes. From several generations. :)
Why?
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My E39 525I drives better than any of my Omegas.... And I spent alot of time and effort making both my last Omegas handle as well as they could...
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Fair enough. But like I said I'm not a fan of them. I don't want a BMW at this point. I want an Omega. ;)
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30mm at back is too low. That's why mine has spacers in to lift to back up a bit