Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Terbs on 18 December 2016, 14:13:06
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After having thought I had sorted this problem a while back, the heater is now blowing very cool air from the passenger vents, and cold from the drivers side again. I have felt the two pipes on the engine side bulkhead to the matrix, the top one is boiling hot, the lower one just warm. I am guessing this is a blocked matrix, rather than air lock. So, I am going to flush the matrix, but is there some chemical that will 'dilute' any sludge in it, that could be poured down a pipe via a funnel, left to soak, then hosed out.
TIA
Tony
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Ive used fernox to clean main engine rad before, I reckon it would be a good cleaning agent for the heater matrix too.
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I tried to use STP-product. It did not help at all. Now just working with new matrix. That might finally help. I used several years chemicals to prevent coolant leak from head gasket so that might be my case. I lost first hot air to back seat. It was just cold, others warm.
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After having thought I had sorted this problem a while back, the heater is now blowing very cool air from the passenger vents, and cold from the drivers side again. I have felt the two pipes on the engine side bulkhead to the matrix, the top one is boiling hot, the lower one just warm. I am guessing this is a blocked matrix, rather than air lock. So, I am going to flush the matrix, but is there some chemical that will 'dilute' any sludge in it, that could be poured down a pipe via a funnel, left to soak, then hosed out.
TIA
Tony
Be careful what you use here Terbs . . I think the matrix is aluminium ::) ::)
Did you flush it both ways last time ? :-\
Flushed mine recently as heat was poor . . . did not seem blocked & not much residue appeared in the bucket.
Afterwards it seemed it made no difference , car was just running on drive way up to temp & heat on HI was poor as it was
before the flush .
Left it for an hour , slight top up of coolant &then went for 7 mile trip & lt was toasty hot & has been since. :y
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Yes Al....flushed it every which way but loose !!!! :y
I assume the water flows from the HBV to the matrix (top hose) then out the bottom one. Can't really say the water was as coloured as shown in the 'how to's', but I did it loads of times, and it did seem to work ok.
Would I be right in thinking that beacause the water is hot on the top hose to matrix, that this discounts thermostat not working :y
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Yes Al....flushed it every which way but loose !!!! :y
I assume the water flows from the HBV to the matrix (top hose) then out the bottom one. Can't really say the water was as coloured as shown in the 'how to's', but I did it loads of times, and it did seem to work ok.
Would I be right in thinking that beacause the water is hot on the top hose to matrix, that this discounts thermostat not working :y
What is temp guage showing once up to running temp?
Test for thermostat is as I understand . . start engine from COLD , let engine run while you feel top hose & this main top hose should stay cold until thermostat opens & then that top hose gets hot warm rapidly as thermostat opens .
Top hose here means main radiator hose NOT the matrix hoses
Can take a good few minutes before top hose will suddenly get hot . If the top hose just warms slowly thermostat is at fault
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Temp gauge runs constant between 87/91 with cooling fans cutting in at 91 and out at 87. That top hose does get hot. :y
I am just rigging up some pipe fittings with hoseloks to make the job easier :y
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Temp gauge runs constant between 87/91 with cooling fans cutting in at 91 and out at 87. That top hose does get hot. :y
I am just rigging up some pipe fittings with hoseloks to make the job easier :y
Just re read my last post . . . edited it a bit . . .
just to make sure we are talking about the same hose for the thermostat test ;)
Another point with the matrix . . Nick W explained to me that the coolant enters & exits on the same side of the matrix, so if there is a blockage , it will still flow , but not through the matrix as it should & therefore not work as a "heat exchanger"
My 2.6 was the same as yours is now . . .top heater hose hot , bottom just warm . A flush out did fix it , but not instantly, guess it was some kind of air lock :-\ :-\
Have you tried a "climate control " re set . . . think it is press OFF & AUTO together for 5 secs , or see maintenance guide ;)
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Temp gauge runs constant between 87/91 with cooling fans cutting in at 91 and out at 87. That top hose does get hot. :y
I am just rigging up some pipe fittings with hoseloks to make the job easier :y
Just re read my last post . . . edited it a bit . . .
just to make sure we are talking about the same hose for the thermostat test ;)
Another point with the matrix . . Nick W explained to me that the coolant enters & exits on the same side of the matrix, so if there is a blockage , it will still flow , but not through the matrix as it should & therefore not work as a "heat exchanger"
My 2.6 was the same as yours is now . . .top heater hose hot , bottom just warm . A flush out did fix it , but not instantly, guess it was some kind of air lock :-\ :-\
Have you tried a "climate control " re set . . . think it is press OFF & AUTO together for 5 secs , or see maintenance guide ;)
Just went outside and tried this on mine and it worked a treat. Fans do what I want them to now. Muchos gracias Al. :y :)
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Temp gauge runs constant between 87/91 with cooling fans cutting in at 91 and out at 87. That top hose does get hot. :y
I am just rigging up some pipe fittings with hoseloks to make the job easier :y
Just re read my last post . . . edited it a bit . . .
just to make sure we are talking about the same hose for the thermostat test ;)
Another point with the matrix . . Nick W explained to me that the coolant enters & exits on the same side of the matrix, so if there is a blockage , it will still flow , but not through the matrix as it should & therefore not work as a "heat exchanger"
My 2.6 was the same as yours is now . . .top heater hose hot , bottom just warm . A flush out did fix it , but not instantly, guess it was some kind of air lock :-\ :-\
Have you tried a "climate control " re set . . . think it is press OFF & AUTO together for 5 secs , or see maintenance guide ;)
Just went outside and tried this on mine and it worked a treat. Fans do what I want them to now. Muchos gracias Al. :y :)
Your welcome Senor ;D ;D ;D
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Should have said "muchos gracias Hanko Marvinas. :y ;D
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Should have said "muchos gracias Hanko Marvinas. :y ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
All as you say, Al. Giving up for today as its getting dark.......and after cutting some hosepipe, and fitting connections, I realise I have fitted the wrong connectors. Will attack it in the morning ....I'll be in a better mood. However, I am going to try a reset now :y
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Temp gauge runs constant between 87/91 with cooling fans cutting in at 91 and out at 87. That top hose does get hot. :y
I am just rigging up some pipe fittings with hoseloks to make the job easier :y
I did have some like that, but sent them to forum member last year.
They were a bit of a pain to make, so I replaced them with these which are much easier to make, and can be used with short lengths of garden hose with hoselock fittings:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/kj0rxzelgildcuy/Heateradaptorssmall.jpg?dl=1)
The two on the left are identical, and the large diameters fit into the HBV ends of the heater hoses, which means you don't have to faff about with the complicated fittings on the matrix. The small diameters are jubilee clipped into your water hose. The black bung fits into the engine end of the third HBV hose: if you don't do this, you don't flush the matrix.
These were sent to another member, but I can make more if you can to wait a few days to do the job..
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Yes Al....flushed it every which way but loose !!!! :y
I assume the water flows from the HBV to the matrix (top hose) then out the bottom one. Can't really say the water was as coloured as shown in the 'how to's', but I did it loads of times, and it did seem to work ok.
Would I be right in thinking that beacause the water is hot on the top hose to matrix, that this discounts thermostat not working :y
Having the matrix in my hand I see an arrow pointing in on the upper hole so upper is in and lower out as you certainly already know.
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Thats very kind of you Nick, and it looks the mutts nuts. However, I will decline your offer, as time limits me after tomorrow and I won't be around until the end of January. As you know, I have a choice of three Omega's to go away in, so if the problem car is not working, I'll take one of the others. Again thanks for the kind offer :y
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..... but is there some chemical that will 'dilute' any sludge in it, that could be poured down a pipe via a funnel, left to soak, then hosed out.
TIA
Tony
My Dad used a dissolved dish washer tablet with limited success on his Granada ..... but in the end replaced the matrix -an easier task on a MKII Granny as it seems Ford didn't build the car around the matrix like GM did with the Omega heater matrix
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..... but is there some chemical that will 'dilute' any sludge in it, that could be poured down a pipe via a funnel, left to soak, then hosed out.
TIA
Tony
My Dad used a dissolved dish washer tablet with limited success on his Granada ..... but in the end replaced the matrix -an easier task on a MKII Granny as it seems Ford didn't build the car around the matrix like GM did with the Omega heater matrix
If I remember correctly, it's in a box on the passenger inner wing - you undo a few self tapping screws and two hose-clamps then the matrix falls out. Takes longer to drink your coffee than to do the job.
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Quicker to grow the coffee than do it correctly on an Omega. ;D
Cut,n,shut is the way forward on an Omega and almost quicker than messing about trying to unblock a matrix that probably will never be restored to a full flow either and only around £40 for a new one...the 2 O rings are a different story though and GM supply only
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..... but is there some chemical that will 'dilute' any sludge in it, that could be poured down a pipe via a funnel, left to soak, then hosed out.
TIA
Tony
My Dad used a dissolved dish washer tablet with limited success on his Granada ..... but in the end replaced the matrix -an easier task on a MKII Granny as it seems Ford didn't build the car around the matrix like GM did with the Omega heater matrix
If I remember correctly, it's in a box on the passenger inner wing - you undo a few self tapping screws and two hose-clamps then the matrix falls out. Takes longer to drink your coffee than to do the job.
I just saw the hoses going into the engine bay .... though I think they were on the driver's side. My MKIII Cortina's matrix was a you described though (as was my Cavalier Coupe's :y)
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Quicker to grow the coffee than do it correctly on an Omega. ;D
Cut,n,shut is the way forward on an Omega and almost quicker than messing about trying to unblock a matrix that probably will never be restored to a full flow either and only around £40 for a new one...the 2 O rings are a different story though and GM supply only
Replaced one on my old Elite a few years back - cost at the time for a good new pattern was around £20 delivered, and it came complete with two new o-rings. Easy enough job cut 'n shut, and all ok when fitted.
Remember just after I fitted mine MarkDTM was recommending a pattern one that cost £14.
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Terbs . . .has this low heat issue just started ? or has it always been low ? :-\
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Thats a bit difficult to answer, Al, daft as it seems. We are talking the blue 2.5 estate. I did have the problem before, which after flushing, bleeding, etc, the heater was working. However, due to having a choice of vehicles, and each at some point standing idle for a month or so, I can't say when it last worked, as it has not been used during cold weather. Its last major usage was June for a month daily until July, then again all of September. Not been used since.:( Been away all of November using the green 2.6. Went to Brackley last weekend and used it then, and nearly froze our bits off !!!!! ;D Swmbo was not impressed ;D
Replacing is not an issue, regards cost, if that what it turns out to be needing. Its a case of I don't trust myself to do it !!!!! Me and water do not mix!!!
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Given the very small pipework in the Heater Matrix and the likelihood that even with good service through its life it has picked up some much or crud which is restricting the potential flow.
Lots of flushes may loosen or improve the situation,however if you intend keeping the car long term my best advise would be to replace the entire matrix,nice clean coolant mix and forget about it ,especially if you have given things a good flush back/forth at pressure.
When I replaced mine on old Elite you could pour water in 1 pipe and it would come out the other almost as quickly so clean evidence it wasn't circulating through the thin pipework of the matrix.You may improve things slightly or to an acceptable level with chemicals however for the 2 hours and £40 for a almost certain fix that would be where my advise would be.
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Thanks Andrew....I am gonna have a good flushing and see what happens...may try the dishwasher tablet soak. However, I am going to gen up on how to replace it, but I am not of the build or age (also back problems) to access areas requiring a double jointed acrobat to reach !!! ;D ;D
If it looks easy, thats the route I'll go.
I intend to keep my Omegas, until they literally rust and/or fall to pieces. This is of course, all subject to keeping swmbo at bay :y
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Thanks Andrew....I am gonna have a good flushing and see what happens...may try the dishwasher tablet soak. However, I am going to gen up on how to replace it, but I am not of the build or age (also back problems) to access areas requiring a double jointed acrobat to reach !!! ;D ;D
If it looks easy, thats the route I'll go.
I intend to keep my Omegas, until they literally rust and/or fall to pieces. This is of course, all subject to keeping swmbo at bay :y
Terbs, the dishwasher tab method may shift some build up . . . but that method is more suited to oil cooler failure where oily emulsion has to be cleaned from the cooling system. But no harm in trying.
Nick W advised me a while ago when I was having low heat trouble, and this was when heating was first required after summer had gone, that it can take a while ( as in a few trips in the said car ) to get heating going properly, when it has not been on for quite a while . As my flush out did not bring instant results , I suppose this is possible.
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Thanks for the responses, Al. etc. Haven't had chance to do it today, but tomorrow it will get the full bore until the Water Board twig where all their water is going. Will report results :y
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Fingers crossed some water pressure gets any crud dislodged although I personally would avoid chemicals as being aluminium you could end up with a split or leak which is not great to dry out this time of year.
The cut,n,shut method for the matrix replacement does require a certain amount of dexterity and working in a very ackward space ::) so maybe a job left for A another and warmer days,although should take no more than 2 hours taking it gently as the less that's cut the easier it is to hide afterwards.
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Getting there...flushed and flushed and flushed. Used an airline, with gentle pressure. Result...passenger side red hot, driver side, mildly tepid. Did use a Wynns flush as recommended for all types of metal. :y
Now to suss why drivers side not red hot.
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Getting there...flushed and flushed and flushed. Used an airline, with gentle pressure. Result...passenger side red hot, driver side, mildly tepid. Did use a Wynns flush as recommended for all types of metal. :y
Now to suss why drivers side not red hot.
SWMBO's happy then :y :y
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Probably a sticky temp servo on the drivers side... the actuator arm can become loose/disconnected leaving partial or no control. Equally, if you've been prodding and poking that end of the matrix, the carpet or trim might be fouling it ;)
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Not been prodding anything, Al. I have read the guide for sorting the arm you refer to, and that is not within my physical boundries. As long as it belts it out on madam's side, I'll keep my vents shut. Not been out for a run yet, probably get that on a run to Brackley on Saturday. ;)