Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 30 January 2017, 17:43:47

Title: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 30 January 2017, 17:43:47
The writing appears to be on the wall for cars that run on lorry fuel.

I can understand why derv owners are annoyed because a decade ago 'lorry fuel cars' were going to save planet Earth. People were encouraged to 'buy diesel'





https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/16/oslo-temporarily-bans-diesel-cars-combat-pollution (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/16/oslo-temporarily-bans-diesel-cars-combat-pollution)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: STEMO on 30 January 2017, 17:54:09
This will make the current models very cheap..and, if you don't drive in cities and only cause the premature death of cows and sheep by driving in rural areas, you're on to a winner. :y


What do Danish buses use?
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 30 January 2017, 17:57:37
This will make the current models very cheap..and, if you don't drive in cities and only cause the premature death of cows and sheep by driving in rural areas, you're on to a winner. :y


What do Danish buses use?

Oslo is part of Norway. :)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: STEMO on 30 January 2017, 18:13:01
This will make the current models very cheap..and, if you don't drive in cities and only cause the premature death of cows and sheep by driving in rural areas, you're on to a winner. :y


What do Danish buses use?

Oslo is part of Norway. :)
Just testing  ;D
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 30 January 2017, 18:30:47
This will make the current models very cheap..and, if you don't drive in cities and only cause the premature death of cows and sheep by driving in rural areas, you're on to a winner. :y


What do Danish buses use?

Oslo is part of Norway. :)
Just testing  ;D

The capital city of Norway. I've been there. Very nice. :y

Pretty liberal when it comes to the consumption of 'wacky baccy'.........so I hear. :y
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: zirk on 30 January 2017, 18:36:32
Nope, would never buy a brand new car, even if it run on water.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: BazaJT on 30 January 2017, 18:47:26
Never owned an oil burner,never wanted to either.However if I had the money to buy a brand new car of any engine type I still wouldn't buy one,I'd buy a classic car instead.So to answer the question as posed no I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 January 2017, 18:58:53
The capital city of Norway. I've been there. Very nice. :y
I thought it was a bit of a shithole, but then I've never been to a capital city that wasn't.

Now, rural Norway...  ...big busted blonde girlies I found very friendly, and the local moonshine was cheap enough to get them legless...
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 30 January 2017, 19:18:30
The capital city of Norway. I've been there. Very nice. :y
I thought it was a bit of a shithole, but then I've never been to a capital city that wasn't.

Now, rural Norway...  ...big busted blonde girlies I found very friendly, and the local moonshine was cheap enough to get them legless...
......and there was me thinking this was a thread about the demise of derv. ;D
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 30 January 2017, 19:40:31
Sandal wearing carrot munches always have to moan about summat... If it's not Islington parking charges or the price of tofu, it might as well be diesel cars ::)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 30 January 2017, 20:44:33
Sandal wearing carrot munches always have to moan about summat... If it's not Islington parking charges or the price of tofu, it might as well be diesel cars ::)
Yep, the same ones that a decade ago thought global warming climate change was the only show in town, and that CO2 emissions needed to be reduced despite all else. That's why we're where we are today. ::)

If I absolutely needed a cheap to fuel new car I'd probably be looking closely at what petrol hybrids are like. Thank God I dont.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Webby the Bear on 30 January 2017, 20:57:23
I can't see why anyone would have a diesel. Surely the fuel economy is negated when you spend every week in the garage for new turbos, injectors, egr valves etc. And my god the smell of them makes me sick.

The fuel of Satan  :y
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2017, 21:15:35
Sooo let's add some stats in here about second hand cars, I'm considering a Passat Estate for the wife as a possible future option.

Number of Passat Estates on AutoTrader: 1,706

Those that are autos, as this is a requirement: 506

Petrol: 14
Diesel: 470

So.... 14! Out of a huge brand and popular car, I have 14 to choose from if I go petrol?

It's same story with Zafria, Volvo V70, everything.

So yeah, why would people buy diesel? Sod all else to choose from!

Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 30 January 2017, 21:30:04
Just over 642,000 Austin Allegro were made... Doesn't make it right... ::)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2017, 21:33:22
Did not say if it was right or wrong, but the options to buy second hand strongly favour diesels. If you look only for petrol, you massively limit your options
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: STEMO on 30 January 2017, 21:36:01
The question was 'Would you buy a brand new diesel?'
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2017, 21:36:23
It's always something, no doubt in 10 years time hybrid powered cars will be charged huge fees to get rid of the old dead batteries.  ::)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2017, 21:37:25
The question was 'Would you buy a brand new diesel?'

Yes.

Jag XJ please  :y
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 30 January 2017, 21:39:10
Buy a new diesel ? No thanks, I'm happy with the one I already have. 27 years old, 228000 miles, and almost infinite Mpg.
Why change perfection..........apart from its sluggishness, and being cosmetically dog rough.  :)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 30 January 2017, 21:40:26
Omega estate? If too big, then the Passat isn't going to end well... They're almost the same size...

Might have better choice with Audi if you must go VAG. Failing that either BMW or Mercedes, although petrol in both fewer in number, auto is what they do ;)

W211 E350 or E61 525i as my starters for ten... Both readily available for around £5k :y
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: STEMO on 30 January 2017, 22:00:50
Omega estate? If too big, then the Passat isn't going to end well... They're almost the same size...

Might have better choice with Audi if you must go VAG. Failing that either BMW or Mercedes, although petrol in both fewer in number, auto is what they do ;)

W211 E350 or E61 525i as my starters for ten... Both readily available for around £5k :y
Not new though.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2017, 22:07:33
Omega's Estates past it now and 99% of them are rubbish examples, would not want a 6 cylinder on anything, 2.0 max engine size. Pound for pound VW again gives best age/miles ratio compared to Audi or BMW.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Nick W on 30 January 2017, 22:07:53
New?


Maybe, but I'd rather not. I would halve the oil change interval, and ensure that I sold before it did 100k miles.


Used?


Not while there is a hole in my arse.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2017, 22:14:44
So Merc E Classes, Estate & Auto on Trader...

Diesel: 719
Petrol: 78

Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Varche on 30 January 2017, 22:23:03
No would not but would miss the torque of a diesel.

They will get taxed to death in years to come to pay for the hospital costs of pollution related illnesses .
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 30 January 2017, 22:31:01
Few months ago, we purchased a brand new 2016 Honda CRV. 1.6 turbo diesel. I was worried it would be dangerously slow, but actually it's impressively punchy, very comfortable and supportive for my back, and is fine for day to day driving. Much better than the 2013 2.0 diesel Hyundai ix35 it replaced.

It suits our needs, and carries the dog with ease. Returns 42mpg without fail, mixed driving, and there are no worries about servicing or repairs for some time.

I still, however, require "my" car(s), which, through nature of being an enthusiast, are an 18 year old 5 series, and a 14 year old Elite!  ::)

As much as the new car is nice, at a cost of £32,000 - there is still a lot to be said for maintaining older, proven cars and letting them pay for themselves over and over again ......
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 30 January 2017, 22:40:50
Returns 42mph without fail....

I'd be looking for something with a little more poke, TBH. ;)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 30 January 2017, 22:42:59
Number of Passat Estates on AutoTrader: 1,706

Those that are autos, as this is a requirement: 506


Do they do one that has a standard slush box not a DSG?

Because I know several people who've had bad experiences with DSG Passats.

In fact, now I think about it, everyone I know who's had one has ended up dumping it cheap because the gearbox is shot.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 30 January 2017, 22:44:16
Returns 42mph without fail....

I'd be looking for something with a little more poke, TBH. ;)

Amended  ;D :y
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 30 January 2017, 22:49:08
Number of Passat Estates on AutoTrader: 1,706

Those that are autos, as this is a requirement: 506


Do they do one that has a standard slush box not a DSG?

Because I know several people who've had bad experiences with DSG Passats.

In fact, now I think about it, everyone I know who's had one has ended up dumping it cheap because the gearbox is shot.
This all sounds terribly familiar :-\
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Nick W on 30 January 2017, 23:06:51
Number of Passat Estates on AutoTrader: 1,706

Those that are autos, as this is a requirement: 506


Do they do one that has a standard slush box not a DSG?

Because I know several people who've had bad experiences with DSG Passats.

In fact, now I think about it, everyone I know who's had one has ended up dumping it cheap because the gearbox is shot.


Like the cam chain picture in another thread, DSG is German engineering at its worst: a complicated, expensive, unreliable 'solution' looking for a problem to solve.
I recovered several that had selected two gears at once, which doesn't do the gearbox(or the recovery driver's temper) any good.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: henryd on 30 January 2017, 23:15:07
Omega estate? If too big, then the Passat isn't going to end well... They're almost the same size...

Might have better choice with Audi if you must go VAG. Failing that either BMW or Mercedes, although petrol in both fewer in number, auto is what they do ;)

W211 E350 or E61 525i as my starters for ten... Both readily available for around £5k :y

E61 525I is one of the most gutless cars I've ever driven even in manual form,shame as a nice car otherwise,brilliant as a 3.0 diesel even more so with twin turbos  :y
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 31 January 2017, 00:08:59
Well it is for Mrs Tunnie :D
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: X30XE on 31 January 2017, 01:48:00
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/london-borough-to-charge-diesel-cars-more-to-park/ar-AAmmwNc?li=BBoPJKX

Absolutely f***ing disgraceful  >:(  Not polluting when it's frigging parked is it!!!!
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Ever Ready on 31 January 2017, 07:32:33
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/london-borough-to-charge-diesel-cars-more-to-park/ar-AAmmwNc?li=BBoPJKX

Absolutely f***ing disgraceful  >:(  Not polluting when it's frigging parked is it!!!!

Greedy bar stewards >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 31 January 2017, 11:13:55
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/london-borough-to-charge-diesel-cars-more-to-park/ar-AAmmwNc?li=BBoPJKX

Absolutely f***ing disgraceful  >:(  Not polluting when it's frigging parked is it!!!!

Greedy bar stewards >:( >:( >:(

Think of all that nasty soot getting chucked out while those Westminster ladies who lunch are going round and round in their tonka toys looking for somewhere to park!  ::)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 31 January 2017, 11:17:37
Well it is for Mrs Tunnie :D

She is not a BMW fan either, Merc on the other hand  ::)

Nah it will be either ZafB or Passat Estate, perhaps a W211 Estate (with 2.1 diesel lump) if I can find one that's not rusty.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 31 January 2017, 12:12:35
I have to say that the Passat CC which Mr Tunnie currently owns is a good car.

The CC version is pretty rare and to my eyes at least very stylish and well made. It is just the engine from a canal barge that I take issue with.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 31 January 2017, 12:18:25
I have to say that the Passat CC which Mr Tunnie currently owns is a good car.

The CC version is pretty rare and to my eyes at least very stylish and well made. It is just the engine from a canal barge that I take issue with.

Thanks  :y

It needs a damn good clean, it's been doing some miles recently.

On the point of engine, again as per my other comments, petrol's are thin on the ground. To the point it's staggering....

According to AutoTrader, there are 1,016 VW CC's listed, both earlier and later Mk2's, the breakdown:

Diesel: 992
Petrol: 24

 :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 31 January 2017, 12:24:53
I have to say that the Passat CC which Mr Tunnie currently owns is a good car.

The CC version is pretty rare and to my eyes at least very stylish and well made. It is just the engine from a canal barge that I take issue with.

Thanks  :y

It needs a damn good clean, it's been doing some miles recently.

On the point of engine, again as per my other comments, petrol's are thin on the ground. To the point it's staggering....

According to AutoTrader, there are 1,016 VW CC's listed, both earlier and later Mk2's, the breakdown:

Diesel: 992
Petrol: 24

 :o :o :o :o


Westminster council will be laughing all the way to the bank. Diesel powered cars could become the new government cash cow.

I wonder if low road tax will remain for lorry fuel cars, or will the government sense an opportunity to 'save the environment' at the expense of the derv driver?
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 31 January 2017, 12:52:46
See 2017 rules, all change  :y

Co2 not important now, car cost. Rules only apply on cars registered after 1st March 2017.

Older cars not effected.  :)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 31 January 2017, 13:31:48
See 2017 rules, all change  :y

Co2 not important now, car cost. Rules only apply on cars registered after 1st March 2017.

Older cars not effected.  :)

 looks like every driver will pay £140 P/A after a first year premium based on C02 levels. Hmmm. Good or bad, I'm not sure. :-\


Will my 2007 Signum still cost £500+?
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 31 January 2017, 13:34:23
As per previous discussions, yes :'(
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 31 January 2017, 13:37:50
As per previous discussions, yes :'(

£140 sounds better for an old car worth SFA. :-\
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 31 January 2017, 13:40:49
As per previous discussions, yes :'(

£140 sounds better for an old car worth SFA. :-\

Cars in 2006-2016 with big engines will be worth SFA, as the 'sting' rate of £500 will apply.

I think it's good news, very good news. Because in 5 years time, big V8's, big Jags which always drop in value like a brick in a swimming pool should be cheap to run again.

So Supercharged V8 XJ registered this summer, in 5 years time, will be £140pa to tax  :D

I'm happy my VW is staying at £30/year as well, it will go up, but only small amounts like the Omega has done over the years.  :)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 31 January 2017, 13:57:15
I seem to recall car tax being a flat rate £25 for every car way back in the sixties.

Mini.....£25
E-Type or DB5.....£25.

Of course I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: YZ250 on 31 January 2017, 14:11:41
I can't see why anyone would have a diesel........

I thought petrol was only for garden machinery and washing paint brushes.  :-[  You mean that people still run cars on petrol? Wow, they must have an exciting torque curve.  ;)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: henryd on 31 January 2017, 14:17:49
I can't see why anyone would have a diesel........

I thought petrol was only for garden machinery and washing paint brushes.  :-[  You mean that people still run cars on petrol? Wow, they must have an exciting torque curve.  ;)

Yep big torquey oil burner for me all day long :y :y
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 31 January 2017, 15:26:33
I can't see why anyone would have a diesel........

I thought petrol was only for garden machinery and washing paint brushes.  :-[  You mean that people still run cars on petrol? Wow, they must have an exciting torque curve.  ;)

Yep big torquey oil burner for me all day long :y :y

Turbocharged or supercharged petrol will do the job just as well, Henry. :y

Plus it will have a nice slug of top end power rather than the 'flat as a fart' top end feel of derv. ;)
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 31 January 2017, 15:28:49
Personally, no I probably wouldn't bother with one.

Taking a typical diesel car vs a (say) 2.5 - 3.0L petrol over 100,000 miles, at 45mpg vs 27mpg would mean a saving on fuel of £7,750. Given the larger upfront purchase price and additional servicing requirements on the diesel, I probably wouldn't see enough benefit. That said you do recoup the upfront expenditure at sale time.  :-\

Overall I think it depends on how long you plan to keep the car. From new to (say) 200,000 miles, the fuel saving could well be worth it. But if you dont keep cars that long then you're probably better off on petrol
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: tunnie on 31 January 2017, 15:42:43
Personally, no I probably wouldn't bother with one.

Taking a typical diesel car vs a (say) 2.5 - 3.0L petrol over 100,000 miles, at 45mpg vs 27mpg would mean a saving on fuel of £7,750. Given the larger upfront purchase price and additional servicing requirements on the diesel, I probably wouldn't see enough benefit. That said you do recoup the upfront expenditure at sale time.  :-\

Overall I think it depends on how long you plan to keep the car. From new to (say) 200,000 miles, the fuel saving could well be worth it. But if you dont keep cars that long then you're probably better off on petrol

Don't forget VED, 2006-17 Era get crap tax bands. So £500/yr vs £30/yr.

So over 10 years, you stand to save £4,700  :y

Also given I oil changed my 2.2 Omega every 5k, I don't see service costs any different on the VW.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 31 January 2017, 16:05:53
Diy negates any labour  costs...
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Nick W on 31 January 2017, 16:16:57
Diy negates any labour  costs...


Everybody draws the line in different places: I would rather pay someone to change the gearbox than struggle with the car on ramps in the street.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: 2boxerdogs on 31 January 2017, 16:23:47
Yes big Toyota 4x4 V8 diesel for me.
Title: Re: Would you buy a 'brand new' diesel?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 31 January 2017, 16:25:28
Diy negates any labour  costs...


Everybody draws the line in different places: I would rather pay someone to change the gearbox than struggle with the car on ramps in the street.
Fair point... Meant servicing for the purposes of this thread ;)