Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Jimbob on 14 February 2017, 16:20:52
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Peugeot in talks to buy GM's Vauxhall and Opel business
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38969791
Doesn't strike me as very good news :o :o :o
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Depends really, whether they want to buy in as a major stake for financial reasons or want to remove and take over the whole Manufacturing Operation. :-\
My honest belief is Opel / Vauxhall Europe have been a bit stagnate lately in its innovative designs and new launches, maybe it needs a good kick up the arse, could swing either way. :-\
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.. whereas Peugeot aren't staid, boring and utilitarian at all. ;)
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.. whereas Peugeot aren't staid, boring and utilitarian at all. ;)
Well, yea, there is that, other option would be to stick a BMW or VW Badge on the back, but it wouldn't be a Vauxhall then. :-X
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.. whereas Peugeot aren't staid, boring and utilitarian at all. ;)
All mainstream cars are the same now. There's that many shared platforms and engines, you don't know what you're driving.
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Besides, modern Vauxhall's are nothing special.
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If it happens they might be able to really compete with VW and Ford in dominating the European market.
Plus, two good car manufacturers joining forces schouldn't end badly :y
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Depends really, whether they want to buy in as a major stake for financial reasons or want to remove and take over the whole Manufacturing Operation. :-\
My honest belief is Opel / Vauxhall Europe have been a bit stagnate lately in its innovative designs and new launches, maybe it needs a good kick up the arse, could swing either way. :-\
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Like one or two on here. :)
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Don't think I will be buying a modern car anytime soon , always thought Peugeot a bit like Alfa some great looking cars but questionable reliability.
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Ffs is nothing sacred. French Vauxhalls ! German Bentleys and Rolls I can live with, but French Vauxhalls. >:( >:(The world is going to end soon, mark my words. ::)
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If it happens they might be able to really compete with VW and Ford in dominating the European market.
Plus, two good car manufacturers joining forces shouldn't end badly :y
German GM(not even the British care about Vauxhall as a badge) combining with it died sometime ago, but is too French to notice Peugeot Citroen shouldn't end badly? In what fantasy world is that likely :o
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Ffs is nothing sacred. French Vauxhalls ! German Bentleys and Rolls I can live with, but French Vauxhalls. >:( >:(The world is going to end soon, mark my words. ::)
Dont worry M, if it does happen, means you wont have to wear Bubble Wrap around ya head when you drive future Vauxhalls. ;D ;D
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It means I will never drive future Vauxhalls. I have a serious aversion to all things French. ;D
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It means I will never drive future Vauxhalls. I have a serious aversion to all things French. ;D
How about a nice Buick Lacrosse tourer... :D
Not to say I told you all so, of course ::)
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It means I will never drive future Vauxhalls. I have a serious aversion to all things French. ;D
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Me too.
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It means I will never drive future Vauxhalls. I have a serious aversion to all things French. ;D
How about a nice Buick Lacrosse tourer... :D
Not to say I told you all so, of course ::)
Well of it does happen, I think I'll start buying Saab, the Swedish know how to make Cars without interference. ;D
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It means I will never drive future Vauxhalls. I have a serious aversion to all things French. ;D
How about a nice Buick Lacrosse tourer... :D
Not to say I told you all so, of course ::)
Well of it does happen, I think I'll start buying Saab, the Swedish know how to make Cars without interference. ;D
SAAB? Good luck finding a decent one.
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If it happens they might be able to really compete with VW and Ford in dominating the European market.
Plus, two good car manufacturers joining forces schouldn't end badly :y
But we're not talking about 2 good car manufacturers, are we...
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Note to self : stock pile 10w40 SS and 5w30 FS before the frogs legs take over and do away with TC and triple the price of everything.
2nd note to self : give zero fnarks in any other regard. at all. like literally... zero.
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God help us all ;D
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Vauxhall don't make anything inspiring any more, I'm considering a Zafira Tourer as MrsT next car at some point but that's only because I can't afford a similar age Ford S-Max.
The Insignia is a woeful, on paper ticks right boxes but in reality it comes across cheaply made and and dull.
Apart from a Monaro, there is no other Vauxhall I want to own.
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Apart from a Monaro, there is no other Vauxhall I want to own.
Which actually makes them a perfect fit with PSA; who wakes up and thinks I really need a Peugeot on my drive to make my life complete?
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Apart from a Monaro, there is no other Vauxhall I want to own.
Which actually makes them a perfect fit with PSA; who wakes up and thinks I really need a Peugeot on my drive to make my life complete?
Older generation likes them, GrampsT would only have Pugs since late 90's :-\
Just reading up on the article, 16 years consecutive losses, mounting to 15 billion. :o
So just a few years off the time they stopped making the Omega ;D
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So, no real chansses of seeing a RWD opel any time soon?
As french engineers, apparently, forgot how the propshaft looks like.
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Apart from a Monaro, there is no other Vauxhall I want to own.
Which actually makes them a perfect fit with PSA; who wakes up and thinks I really need a Peugeot on my drive to make my life complete?
Older generation likes them, GrampsT would only have Pugs since late 90's :-\
Just reading up on the article, 16 years consecutive losses, mounting to 15 billion. :o
But they stopped building worthwhile cars well before that :o Peugeot used to be the French equivalent of Rover: worthy, well made, conservative and very dull cars. The Top Gear film on how Peugeot avoided a gentle slide into mediocrity by diving straight into the rubbish end of the market wasn't a joke.
As for the losses, it just reinforces what I wrote earlier: dead, but haven't quite realised it yet.
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Older generation likes them, GrampsT would only have Pugs since late 90's :-\
Exactly. :y Pipe and slippers all the way. Only for those who feel they've had enough excitement in their life. (save for the sudden immolation of the odd electrical component).
Hey - they should do well with the Zafira blower resistor packs. ;D
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OH NO! :'(
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Meanwhile, back on Planet HSV...
http://www.caradvice.com.au/520764/2018-hsv-clubsport-and-tourer-rendered/
... the new HoldenOpelVauxhall Buick Commodore :D
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Don't like it .
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Don't like it .
Like GM give a shit... :D
Coming to a dealer near you in a month or so wearing nothing more than an Insignia badge :P
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Apart from a Monaro, there is no other Vauxhall I want to own.
Which actually makes them a perfect fit with PSA; who wakes up and thinks I really need a Peugeot on my drive to make my life complete?
When i some day get a shed and start building my car collection there will be a couple of Peugeots there :) mmm 605 V6 24V...
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Apart from a Monaro, there is no other Vauxhall I want to own.
Which actually makes them a perfect fit with PSA; who wakes up and thinks I really need a Peugeot on my drive to make my life complete?
When i some day get a shed and start building my car collection there will be a couple of Peugeots there :) mmm 605 V6 24V...
Are FWD cars other than Minis allowed in car collections? :D :P
Ducks!
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When i some day get a shed and start building my car collection there will be a couple of Peugeots there :) mmm 605 V6 24V...
A V6 Xantia always had a perverse appeal. Although finding one of the 7**that they sold here was never easy
** this is an educated guess fuelled by coffee
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Did they do a 4x4 version of that or was it just the 2.0 Turbo? :-\
Struggling to recall the last time I saw one...
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No 4x4 but they did the Activa version with an active anti roll system. Which means it pretty much doesn't roll at all... So it is very quick for its power/weight. Also it is the fastest through the famous moose-test, beating Porsche's etc.. 8)
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No 4x4 but they did the Activa version with an active anti roll system. Which means it pretty much doesn't roll at all... So it is very quick for its power/weight. Also it is the fastest through the famous moose-test, beating Porsche's etc.. 8)
I've driven one of them and by god it holds on tight in the bends
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If you've read this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_That_Changed_the_World_(book)
then it all makes sense.
Global Over-production, and emerging entrants to the industry, means that the weaker companies will gradually fail, or be bought up, and only the stronger companies will survive.
GM is run by Americans who are out of touch.
PSA is run by Europeans who do not have a clue.
Both are ultimately doomed with or without this merger.
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Job losses? If so where?
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Apart from a Monaro, there is no other Vauxhall I want to own.
Which actually makes them a perfect fit with PSA; who wakes up and thinks I really need a Peugeot on my drive to make my life complete?
When i some day get a shed and start building my car collection there will be a couple of Peugeots there :) mmm 605 V6 24V...
Are FWD cars other than Minis allowed in car collections? :D :P
Ducks!
Pug 405M16 or a 205GTI would be in mine :y :y
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Job losses? If so where?
You can bet your bottom euro they wont be in France. ;)
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I owned a 205gti a few years ago. Fun for about 10 minutes due to being very light and having a reasonable amount of grunt, but wrong wheel drive so the novelty quickly wore off.
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Job losses? If so where?
You can bet your bottom euro they wont be in France. ;)
Never a truer word said :(
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I owned a 205gti a few years ago. Fun for about 10 minutes due to being very light and having a reasonable amount of grunt, but wrong wheel drive so the novelty quickly wore off.
Yep.....not so long ago I had a blast in a 2003 clit 172 Cup.
Pretty quick but so crude and noisy that after 30 minutes I was done with it. Now if I was 19 again and partial to wearing a back to front baseball cap I'd have loved it. :y
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Still wwd though. ;)
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Still wwd though. ;)
There are some people (like me) who like FWD, you know... :D
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Still wwd though. ;)
There are some people (like me) who can't drive real cars, you know... :D
Amen to that... :D
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Still wwd though. ;)
There are some people (like me) who can't drive real cars, you know... :D
Amen to that... :D
:D :D :D :D ;D
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Why would anyone want the wheels that steer the car to drive it too ? ??? :)
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Still wwd though. ;)
There are some people (like me) who like FWD, you know... :D
Most drivers wouldn't care if you explained and then demonstrated the difference.
This is the correct approach for 97.78593621% of driving.
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All the reasons FWD have become so widely used in cars and any advantages it may have boil down to one thing and one thing only, bean counting.
There is no argument for FWD over RWD or AWD that is not related to that.
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All the reasons FWD have become so widely used in cars and any advantages it may have boil down to one thing and one thing only, bean counting.
There is no argument for FWD over RWD or AWD that is not related to that.
The original reason was to get rid of the tunnel which stuck up through the car to accommodate the propshaft, thus making more room in the rear passenger compartment.
I would say most drivers these days are safer in a FWD vehicle. They would have no idea about how to correct should things go wrong in a RWD.
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FWD gives better traction, less stuff in the car = lighter and if done right, as easy to service.
I was happy for having fwd last week end, when I were out in the woods watching the Swedish Rally..
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FWD gives better traction...
Not necessarily. Given that I often need to tow trailers onto / off fields, I'm happy to have the traction at the same end of the car as the tow hitch. Most FWD cars are abysmal when towing.
In normal circumstances, you only need to keep the fuel tank full in the winter to keep a RWD car planted as well as a FWD.
The only advantage I'd attribute to FWD cars is that a sudden loss of traction is easier to handle for inexperienced drivers.
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We used to keep sandbags in the boot of our old Volvo 940's :D
I do agree though, that for towing rwd or awd is usually better. Citroens are an exception to the rule, due to the self adjustable suspension.
But for going up slippery hills fwd is always better, except if you have a beetle ;D
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All the reasons FWD have become so widely used in cars and any advantages it may have boil down to one thing and one thing only, bean counting.
There is no argument for FWD over RWD or AWD that is not related to that.
The original reason was to get rid of the tunnel which stuck up through the car to accommodate the propshaft, thus making more room in the rear passenger compartment.
I would say most drivers these days are safer in a FWD vehicle. They would have no idea about how to correct should things go wrong in a RWD.
Yes, sure. But in the end it boiled down to bean counting. Without the tunnel, cars could also be smaller, which means cheaper to build and cheaper to sell. FWD was always about saving on something. It was never because it's the better way to move a car.
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FWD gives better traction, less stuff in the car = lighter and if done right, as easy to service.
I was happy for having fwd last week end, when I were out in the woods watching the Swedish Rally..
The only reason for better traction is the weight of the engine over the wheels. But I trade not having my steering wheels also pushing my car forward for that small advantage any day. On snow, ad chain, some weight to the trunk and you have a much better set up than a FWD car. And with current technology such as TC, EPS etc, this FWD excuse is wearing out fast.
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FWD gives better traction...
Not necessarily. Given that I often need to tow trailers onto / off fields, I'm happy to have the traction at the same end of the car as the tow hitch. Most FWD cars are abysmal when towing.
In normal circumstances, you only need to keep the fuel tank full in the winter to keep a RWD car planted as well as a FWD.
The only advantage I'd attribute to FWD cars is that a sudden loss of traction is easier to handle for inexperienced drivers.
Totally agree.
But in case of really losing control, RWD is much less dangerous IMO.
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Totally agree.
But in case of really losing control, RWD is much less dangerous IMO.
Maybe. Power-on oversteer beats Power-on understeer turning into severe oversteer on lift-off any day, but FWD cars are only normally that extreme approaching their limits on grippy surfaces where the driver really ought to know what they are getting into IME. I reckon they are quite benign in circumstances where an inexperienced driver will lose it (wet/mud/snow).
Than again, I haven't had to drive one for quite some time, mercifully. ;)
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If you get overcome with the urge Kevin, throw a Vectra C estate onto a decent sized damp roundabout at a speed which might be considered brave, and lift off...
I warn you now, they don't crash gracefully :-X
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Totally agree.
But in case of really losing control, RWD is much less dangerous IMO.
Maybe. Power-on oversteer beats Power-on understeer turning into severe oversteer on lift-off any day, but FWD cars are only normally that extreme approaching their limits on grippy surfaces where the driver really ought to know what they are getting into IME. I reckon they are quite benign in circumstances where an inexperienced driver will lose it (wet/mud/snow).
Than again, I haven't had to drive one for quite some time, mercifully. ;)
No, you are right. You absolutely are. In normal circumstances FWD is much more idiot proof. :y
But if really coming in hot in a bend and losing control, I would rather be in a RWD than FWD, knowing or not knowing how to drive, much for the reasons you explained about too.
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Crashing backwards is always more comfortable.
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All the reasons FWD have become so widely used in cars and any advantages it may have boil down to one thing and one thing only, bean counting.
There is no argument for FWD over RWD or AWD that is not related to that.
The original reason was to get rid of the tunnel which stuck up through the car to accommodate the propshaft, thus making more room in the rear passenger compartment.
I would say most drivers these days are safer in a FWD vehicle. They would have no idea about how to correct should things go wrong in a RWD.
Yes, sure. But in the end it boiled down to bean counting. Without the tunnel, cars could also be smaller, which means cheaper to build and cheaper to sell. FWD was always about saving on something. It was never because it's the better way to move a car.
It is also because consumers want cheaper and roomier car, just look at the MPV boom in the 90's. And also space in cities is limited..
But as an old saying goes taste is like your buttocks, divided ;)
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All the reasons FWD have become so widely used in cars and any advantages it may have boil down to one thing and one thing only, bean counting.
There is no argument for FWD over RWD or AWD that is not related to that.
The original reason was to get rid of the tunnel which stuck up through the car to accommodate the propshaft, thus making more room in the rear passenger compartment.
I would say most drivers these days are safer in a FWD vehicle. They would have no idea about how to correct should things go wrong in a RWD.
Yes, sure. But in the end it boiled down to bean counting. Without the tunnel, cars could also be smaller, which means cheaper to build and cheaper to sell. FWD was always about saving on something. It was never because it's the better way to move a car.
It is also because consumers want cheaper and roomier car, just look at the MPV boom in the 90's. And also space in cities is limited..
But as an old saying goes taste is like your buttocks, divided ;)
Sure. But one thing is saying, I like FWD cars even though I know they are worse than RWD and AWD. Then it's a matter of taste, and you are surely entitled to your own buttocks. ;)
But another is pretending FWD is not inferior, which it is. Then it has nothing to do with taste or even opinion.
As for the whole point of consumers wanting cheaper, this is exactly my point. FWD was always about being cheap. :y This is the sole advantage any way you slice it. Even when cheap doesn't directly translate into "money". FWD was never about being the best way to move a car. Never was and will never be. Unless cars start driving backwards. ;D
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As Vauxhall Luton seem to build all forms of vivaro will French quality go up?
Looks like hold our breath time again :'(
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I think the only way Peugeot will survive is through covert French subsidies. Green car research is the current favourite. Renault's prospects are better due to Nissan.
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Owning both a rwd-the Omega-and a fwd-the V70-I'd have to say that in the ordinary everyday cut and thrust of the commute to/from work you're hard put to tell which end is providing the thrust.Fwd much easier to spin up the wheels from a standing start if that's your thing[it's not my idea of driving properly]and the turning circle is undoubtedly worse.In either you can make decently rapid progress,just drive to the conditions.
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Can anyone think of a purposely designed FWD car ? No, nor can I. Theres a reason for that. :)
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Can anyone think of a purposely designed FWD car ? No, nor can I. Theres a reason for that. :)
Traction Avant ::)
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Can anyone think of a purposely designed FWD car ? No, nor can I. Theres a reason for that. :)
The Mini, BMC 1100, Citroën Traction Avant, Citroën DS,SAAB 92 and so on.....
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Can anyone think of a purposely designed FWD car ? No, nor can I. Theres a reason for that. :)
The Mini, BMC 1100, Citroën Traction Avant, Citroën DS,SAAB 92 and so on.....
There is one of these in the classic car sales near the office, keep meaning to have proper look at it. (When they are not looking)
It's a stunning looking car, would turn heads if released today.
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Owning both a rwd-the Omega-and a fwd-the V70-I'd have to say that in the ordinary everyday cut and thrust of the commute to/from work you're hard put to tell which end is providing the thrust.Fwd much easier to spin up the wheels from a standing start if that's your thing[it's not my idea of driving properly]and the turning circle is undoubtedly worse.In either you can make decently rapid progress,just drive to the conditions.
Same conclusions here, the 3.2 vs the VW. :)
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Can anyone think of a purposely designed FWD car ? No, nor can I. Theres a reason for that. :)
The Mini, BMC 1100, Citroën Traction Avant, Citroën DS,SAAB 92 and so on.....
Apologies to you and DG. I missed out the word competition between FWD and car. :-[
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Someone's running a girl's wheel drive le mans car these days, i think. ;)
Yes, Nissan, it would seem.
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Someone's running a girl's wheel drive le mans car these days, i think. ;)
Yes, Nissan, it would seem.
Which makes 9/10ths of bugger all sense as the engine is still at the back... I mean wtf is that about ???
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That's the only purpose built fwd competition car Ive ever heard of. Surprised someone knew about it tbh.
From memory, the reason its fwd is something to do with complying with regs in some other area, may have been aero regs ? , and the design was thought to give more gains in that area than it lost in handling by being fwd.
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Can anyone think of a purposely designed FWD competion car ? No, nor can I. There's a reason for that. :)
You've not seen touring cars then? Or the various rally classes? Rallycross? Just like a '70s group4 Escort, there's little to no production parts in them.
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Yep, the lmp regs allow them to generate much more aerodynamic downforce over the front axle so that's the one they drive. And it's mid engined iirc. I think the kers drives the front wheels too.
Then again, tractors win le mans...
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Can anyone think of a purposely designed FWD competion car ? No, nor can I. There's a reason for that. :)
You've not seen touring cars then? Or the various rally classes? Rallycross? Just like a '70s group4 Escort, there's little to no production parts in them.
But they aren't purpose designed and built cars, they are highly modified production cars, or built to resemble a production model for marketing purposes. Most touring cars are fwd, because the production cars they are loosely based on are too.The manufacturers spend money on them because they are mobile advertisements for what comes out of the factories. If it was purely about winning purely for its own sake, non of them would be fwd.
Most rally cars are 4wd afaik, although I haven't taken much notice of rallying for quite a while.
Similar with rallycross. When I did recovery at the big rallycross meets at Lydenn & Brands, in the early 90,s the cars were 4wd, ex group B rally cars - 6r4, RS200, 205 T16 etc.
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Never seen a wwd Nascar racer... And when Ford stopped using a V8 down under, the world very nearly stopped with it :D
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The accusation, "useless thread" or "useless discussion" gets tossed around a lot in these forums when a topic is not something the majority is interested in. But then the discussion of FWD vs RWD rages on. ::)
There is no discussion really. FWD is inferior. This is not one of those things which is a matter of opinion. It's hard science.
People who normally defend FWD are basically divided in 3 categories. People who know nothing about cars and can't even tell if the car is being pulled or pushed. Or don't even know there is actually a difference. Then we have the people who are fans of car brands which make no RWD cars or at least none they can afford, so they have to wave the FWD flag, or feel like they do. What else could they do? And lastly, we have people who wrongly think RWD is less safe or dislikes that normally RWD cars are more expensive or some reason like that which leads them to buy a FWD. Then they feel the need to justify FWD but can't get to say the right thing or the truth which is something like "even though I know RWD is better, I bought a FWD, but for a personal reason". Because if they don't know they would fall under the first category.
But there is no debate really. If FWD would be better F1 would drive backwards! FWD is not better for speed or handling. Touring cars don't count as the point is to drive "stock" cars. Neither do "experiments". F1 is the top of motor racing. If they ever move away from RWD it will be to AWD and they have been experimenting with it. And before anybody says F1 is RWD because they are rear mid-engined, If FWD was any good they would pursue that instead of bothering with AWD. And if you really want to hang on the rear mid-engine excuse, look at Nascar and the several other FR set ups in racing.
If FWD would be any real advantage for traction as well, rally cars wouldn't have massively switched to AWD and Range Rovers would be FWD.
FWD is a compromise. There is no other way to look at it. This is what it always was. FWD is basically the loser of the car world. It's not as good for traction as AWD and not as good for handling as RWD. It does nothing great! This is what a compromise is.
As for not being able to tell the difference in the day to day, I can't understand how that can be. Not from anybody who likes and understands about cars anyway. I currently drive a FWD as a daily and I'm constantly reminded of it. Any time I come out of a roundabout or bend, get into a bend, basically all the time. Unless you are driving 15mph on a dry straight line, how can somebody not notice the difference?
As for safety, I still maintain RWD is safer, specially if you can actually drive. But as they say a picture is worth a thousand words, so I got on youtube to look for tests and I knew I would find something. I wanted to find something that wasn't track related. There are several tests showing such behaviors. But for those who never got to see any, or who never had the opportunity to track a FWD, RWD and AWD to see the difference or even drive them close to the limit, I will leave this here:
(https://s3.postimg.org/obqtmq183/youtube.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYUWIcw8_xg
What I like about this test is that it is not even driving fast. It's something that can happen every day. The FWD defense front likes to use the argument that under normal conditions FWD is not inferior. It doesn't get less normal than this test. It can happen anytime. And I know Vicki said it's hard to tell the difference between FWD, RWD and AWD before you start reaching the car's limit. But I'm sure she is trying to see it from the perspective of most of her viewers as I doubt very much she can't easily tell. Sure if you don't know about cars it can be puzzling. But the thing is when it comes to safety, it normally means you HAVE reached the car's limits. And that happens in a split second.
The FWD vs RWD debate is not a Ford vs Chevy or Mac vs PC debate. The argument FWD is not inferior is like a "smoke is not bad for you" argument.
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I disagree. I think FWD and RWD are both good, and have their respective advantages and compromises. AWD is pretty much best of both worlds, if a little unnecessary for normal sensible driving.
I think all solutions are great, and they have their place in the automotive world.
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A four wheel drive version of a rear wheel drive car becomes more limited in damp/wet conditions, especially on the twisties.
A four wheel drive version of a front wheel drive car become a much more formidable B Road car.
So in summary and referring to regular cars rather than SUVs
FWD is ideal for getting from A to B.
AWD/4x4 is better for dry B Road blasts, especially with a bit of power. Also useful in wintry condition with appropriate tyres.
RWD is clearly the preferred choice with no compromises.
For the record, I have owned both rear and four-wheel drive Sierras, both V6, various other rear wheel drive cars, predominantly Granadas and Omegas; Various front wheel drive cars from a Mk2 Polo and 106 through to a 405, Vectra Cs and randomly a Renault 25. Also a pair of Insignias, one Fwd, and one Awd.
The awd Insignia with the 160bhp Cdti lump gives the Sierra XR4x4 a good run for it's money, but the Sierra pips it because it's considerably lighter. But the same V6 with a manual box in a Mk2 Granada was a much better car to drive hard even if it wasn't quite as fast.
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I disagree. I think FWD and RWD are both good, and have their respective advantages and compromises. AWD is pretty much best of both worlds, if a little unnecessary for normal sensible driving.
I think all solutions are great, and they have their place in the automotive world.
You are definitely entitled to your opinion and to disagree. But you can't argue with facts. :y
FWD is only good to save money. It beats neither of the other systems in performance. That is a fact, regardless of your or my personal preferences. Disagreeing does not change facts.
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I doubt F1 are experimenting with AWD. It was tried and then banned many years ago. As were 6 wheeled cars. ;)
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Can anyone think of a purposely designed FWD car ? No, nor can I. Theres a reason for that. :)
The Mini, BMC 1100, Citroën Traction Avant, Citroën DS,SAAB 92 and so on.....
There is one of these in the classic car sales near the office, keep meaning to have proper look at it. (When they are not looking)
It's a stunning looking car, would turn heads if released today.
Dad had the Safari (Estate) version of that for the first 10 years of my life. In vile green.
Good ideas on paper, but in usual French style, absolutely crap in reality. Such as a starting handle for when the French electrics inevitably stopped working - great idea in theory, but utterly shite when combined with Citroen's stupid suspension system, making it too low to turn said handle when the engine isn't running.
That said, as a family of 11, we toured Europe in that and a Fiat 850 Coupe Sport for several weeks.
He replaced it with another Citroen, a GSA Pallas, with the air cooled boxer engine. You had to remember to put in a grill cover when the weather got cold, else it'd never warm up. Was always having new pistons fitted, kept blowing holes in them :o. Also after about 2 years, kept dumping its suspension fluid from every orifice at regular intervals, which was inconvenient, as it shared the same fluid for the brakes.
He never had another Citroen, he said he learnt his lesson. His remaining 2 cars were and Escort and a 318, much more sensible.
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AWD and 4x4 designations are not the same thing...
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AWD and 4x4 designations are not the same thing...
Hence trying to differentiate them earlier ;)
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Dad had the Safari (Estate) version of that for the first 10 years of my life. In vile green.
Good ideas on paper, but in usual French style, absolutely crap in reality. Such as a starting handle for when the French electrics inevitably stopped working - great idea in theory, but utterly shite when combined with Citroen's stupid brilliant suspension system, making it too low to turn said handle when the engine isn't running.
That said, as a family of 11, we toured Europe in that and a Fiat 850 Coupe Sport for several weeks.
He replaced it with another Citroen, a GSA Pallas, with the air cooled boxer engine. You had to remember to put in a grill cover when the weather got cold, else it'd never warm up. Was always having new pistons fitted, kept blowing holes in them :o. Also after about 2 years, kept dumping its suspension fluid from every orifice at regular intervals, which was inconvenient, as it shared the same fluid for the brakes.
He never had another Citroen, he said he learnt his lesson. His remaining 2 cars were and Escort and a 318, much more sensible.
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I love the Citroën suspension, super comfy and no need to worry about broken springs and sagging shocks.. As for the reliability it got better with the years. My dad´s 07 C5 Break went 150k miles/240 kkm (until he stuffed it :'() without ANY service/repairs to the suspension, none, zero... And it still rode better than many a new car :)
British electrics weren't much better at the time.. British cars are still associated with "that guy Lucas who invented darkness" over here :D
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I love the Citroën suspension, super comfy and no need to worry about broken springs and sagging shocks.. As for the reliability it got better with the years. My dad´s 07 C5 Break went 150k miles/240 kkm (until he stuffed it :'() without ANY service/repairs to the suspension, none, zero... And it still rode better than many a new car :)
In my (dad's) experience, it got worse with newer cars.
Its downsides were it was way, way, way to soft, making it handle poorly, and the "floating" experience induced travel sickness for rear seat passengers.
It upside was the ability to adjust ride height (but sadly not stiffness), and it made jacking easy, as the jack on the DS was effectively a big block of wood
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I had a ride in a C6 as a taxi run into London, very, very smooth. I liked it :y
I did look a bit at C6 V6 diesels, but sadly 2006+ era they had stupid £500 tax bands. :(