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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: STEMO on 14 March 2017, 17:11:41

Title: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: STEMO on 14 March 2017, 17:11:41
Just been explaining to the teenager about imperial measurements. You know, 16 ounces in a pound, 14 pounds in a stone, 112 lbs in a hundredweight (cwt), 20 cwt in a ton, 2240 lbs in a ton, 2420 sq yds in an acre etc.

He told me it was an absolute mess and he was glad he didn't have to know it.

Then I explained how, after brexit............. :) :) :) :)


I think he knew I was just joshing...... :)
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 March 2017, 17:15:15
It was a chuffing mess, I guess anybody under about 45-50 would be mostly metric (In know I am!)
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: STEMO on 14 March 2017, 17:16:28
It was a chuffing mess, I guess anybody under about 45-50 would be mostly metric (In know I am!)
Yeah? Well stop going on about mpg then.  ;D
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Andy B on 14 March 2017, 17:29:26
It was a chuffing mess, I guess anybody under about 45-50 would be mostly metric (In know I am!)
Yeah? Well stop going on about mpg then.  ;D

Or 16"/17" wheels with a metric width

Or mph speed limits  ;)
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: ajsphead on 14 March 2017, 17:40:25
I guess 1760 yds to a mile is also still relevant. It's metric inches and metric miles I struggle with although we accept it without thinking on odometers. Road signs by law also have to display in yards/miles to be enforceable I think.

My generation learned both systems and I'm teaching my daughter both as she wants to be an architect and needs to understand size and proportion pre 1970s.

Also GM seat belt lower mounting bolts are imperial at least up to 2004 on my astra. 11/16 or 13/16 , can't recall which. thank goodness for the USA !!!

There are more things that only work in imperial if you want them to make sense, mainly related to sound waves and pitch which are nonsense in metric. We should know and understand both systems then measure everything in mm.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Bigron on 14 March 2017, 17:48:19
The Hubble telescope was a tragic example of working with mixed measurements - but they were American!  ;D

Ron.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Nick W on 14 March 2017, 17:56:06
It was a chuffing mess, I guess anybody under about 45-50 would be mostly metric (In know I am!)


I think you're right on both points.


Anyone who has explained imperial to a purely metric user will soon wonder why it's still so bloody common!


FAQs include:
Why are there 16ounces in a pound, but 20fl oz in a pint? Answer - it seemed like a good idea at the time?
So there's no good reason why there are 3 feet in a yard, but 8 pints in a gallon? Answer - that's right
How can there not be a direct relation between volume and length measurements? Answer - because we like it that way
Why are there so many units of power? Answer - yes.
And my particular favourite:


How much energy does it take to boil a room-temperature gallon of water? Answer - go opps yourself!
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 14 March 2017, 18:06:43
Telling a girlie that if she plays her cards right she'll have 9 inches to play with later, is much more descriptive than telling her she'll have 228.6mm!   :)
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Mister Rog on 14 March 2017, 18:07:15
This is SUCH a big bee in my bonnet. It is simply bonkers that we still use anything non-metric, whether it's yards, feet, inches, Ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweight whatever. My late father in law was a chippy, and he used to talk in something like three sixteenths of an inch etc. Yes I know that MPG and Miles and various others are in common use, but that doesn't make them right or even logical. We'd get used to change in the same way as we got used to monetary decimalisation.

Of course, the main reason much of this hangs on is because the Americans use them, Ah not quite, many of their measurements are actually different to ours although they have the same name ! Even more nuts.

I have an american made Guitar. I needed an allen key for the bridge saddle, I didn't have one. It turns out that the correct size is 0.050 (Metric) of an Inch (imperial). The same but cheaper model of guitar made in Far East have metric. Arrgggg I found a company that imports the keys. In medical devices metric parts of an imperial measurement is quite common.



I will now retire while the dinosaurs tear me apart  ;D



 
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 14 March 2017, 18:11:00
Anyone nipping out for a 568.261248ml later?  ;D
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Bigron on 14 March 2017, 18:14:31
I'm not sure that I can explain this even to myself, but I have been in electronics engineering/radio all my working life and was totally happy with the MKS (formerly CGS) system of measurement, and yet in "civilian" life I have to convert wood sizes, etc., back to Imperial to visualise what I am dealing with!  ::)

Ron.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: STEMO on 14 March 2017, 18:18:05
What's more modern than an iPad or iPhone? Screen size in inches, please. And televisions too.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Mister Rog on 14 March 2017, 18:19:38
What's more modern than an iPad or iPhone? Screen size in inches, please. And televisions too.

Yep. Bonkers isn't it. Ah of course  . . . . . Americans
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Andy B on 14 March 2017, 18:19:55
...
 It turns out that the correct size is 0.050 (Metric) of an Inch (imperial) ....

That'll be 50 thou then 😉
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Andy B on 14 March 2017, 18:22:32
....


FAQs include:
Why are there 16ounces in a pound, but 20fl oz in a pint?  .....

Get yourselve to the States then if you want 16fl oz in your pint 😉
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Mister Rog on 14 March 2017, 18:26:18
When I am total and unsputed ruler of Britain, I will ban all imperial measures and anyone caught still using them will be sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in a 1950s prefab watching BBC on a B&W TV with . . . . . . a 30.48cm screen
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Andy B on 14 March 2017, 18:29:34
When I am total and unsputed ruler of Britain, I

 ::) ::)
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: BazaJT on 14 March 2017, 18:39:09
And don't forget there's 2,000yds to a nautical mile :y
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Varche on 14 March 2017, 19:01:23
Here in metric land there are plenty of things imperial. Maks me smile as much of the pipework above 15mm half inch is in impetial inches.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: STEMO on 14 March 2017, 19:16:58
28.35 grams in an ounce....unless it's a Troy ounce.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Nick W on 14 March 2017, 19:18:40
I'm not sure that I can explain this even to myself, but I have been in electronics engineering/radio all my working life and was totally happy with the MKS (formerly CGS) system of measurement, and yet in "civilian" life I have to convert wood sizes, etc., back to Imperial to visualise what I am dealing with!  ::)

Ron.


I have the opposite: I think in metric for my stuff. But at work where most of the aircraft we work on are American, I'm subjected to the hideous mishmash of peculiar fractions, thousands of an inch(often for the same bloody measurements), feet, inch-pounds, number threads and dash hose-fittings that characterise the non-metric 'system'
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Bigron on 14 March 2017, 19:23:15
That surely explains why the Yanks are the way they are, Nick!  ::)

Ron.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Bigron on 14 March 2017, 19:25:03
And why Hubble was a cock-up just waiting to happen.....

Ron.

Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: TheBoy on 14 March 2017, 19:27:05
I guess anybody under about 45-50 would be mostly metric
Shit, that means I bat both ways.... :o
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 14 March 2017, 19:32:08
Just been explaining to the teenager about imperial measurements. You know, 16 ounces in a pound, 14 pounds in a stone, 112 lbs in a hundredweight (cwt), 20 cwt in a ton, 2240 lbs in a ton, 2420 sq yds in an acre etc.

He told me it was an absolute mess and he was glad he didn't have to know it.

Then I explained how, after brexit............. :) :) :) :)


I think he knew I was just joshing...... :)
[/quote







4840 when I was at school. :)
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 14 March 2017, 19:36:25
This is SUCH a big bee in my bonnet. It is simply bonkers that we still use anything non-metric, whether it's yards, feet, inches, Ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweight whatever. My late father in law was a chippy, and he used to talk in something like three sixteenths of an inch etc. Yes I know that MPG and Miles and various others are in common use, but that doesn't make them right or even logical. We'd get used to change in the same way as we got used to monetary decimalisation.

Of course, the main reason much of this hangs on is because the Americans use them, Ah not quite, many of their measurements are actually different to ours although they have the same name ! Even more nuts.

I have an american made Guitar. I needed an allen key for the bridge saddle, I didn't have one. It turns out that the correct size is 0.050 (Metric) of an Inch (imperial). The same but cheaper model of guitar made in Far East have metric. Arrgggg I found a company that imports the keys. In medical devices metric parts of an imperial measurement is quite common.



I will now retire while the dinosaurs tear me apart  ;D


When speaking of tits.......You don't get many of those to the pound sounds far better than you don't get many of those to the kilo. :)
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: STEMO on 14 March 2017, 19:42:45
This is SUCH a big bee in my bonnet. It is simply bonkers that we still use anything non-metric, whether it's yards, feet, inches, Ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweight whatever. My late father in law was a chippy, and he used to talk in something like three sixteenths of an inch etc. Yes I know that MPG and Miles and various others are in common use, but that doesn't make them right or even logical. We'd get used to change in the same way as we got used to monetary decimalisation.

Of course, the main reason much of this hangs on is because the Americans use them, Ah not quite, many of their measurements are actually different to ours although they have the same name ! Even more nuts.

I have an american made Guitar. I needed an allen key for the bridge saddle, I didn't have one. It turns out that the correct size is 0.050 (Metric) of an Inch (imperial). The same but cheaper model of guitar made in Far East have metric. Arrgggg I found a company that imports the keys. In medical devices metric parts of an imperial measurement is quite common.



I will now retire while the dinosaurs tear me apart  ;D


When speaking of tits.......You don't get many of those to the pound sounds far better than you don't get many of those to the kilo. :)
Although a kilo of tits is preferable to a pound of tits, surely?
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: STEMO on 14 March 2017, 19:44:12
Deleted. Reason=senility.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 March 2017, 19:47:39
Deleted. Reason=senility.
You can't be senile and reasonably, but I a certain that you can be reasonably senile :D
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 14 March 2017, 19:55:56
Imperial measures are far superior to metric. Metric is mickey mouse stuff, just like the Euro is mickey mouse money.
If I were undisputed leader I would outlaw metric with transgressors being hung from 2 yards of rope.  :P ;D
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Lazydocker on 14 March 2017, 20:07:02
I guess anybody under about 45-50 would be mostly metric
Shit, that means I bat both ways.... :o
But we knew that anyway ::) ;D
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Nick W on 14 March 2017, 20:31:57
Imperial measures are far superior to metric. Metric is mickey mouse stuff, just like the Euro is mickey mouse money.
If I were undisputed leader I would outlaw metric with transgressors being hung from 2 yards of rope.  :P ;D


The actual measures are largely irrelevant. It makes no difference whether you measure something as 34.7mm or 493/787Snookums.
It's when you come to actually do something with that measurement that using a directly relatable system is worthwhile/sensible/rational/quicker/easier/less prone to cockups. Especially if it's one that everybody else has agreed upon.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Andy B on 14 March 2017, 20:32:37
....
4840 when I was at school. :)

You're  right ..... but not  a conversion I've  ever needed  :y
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 14 March 2017, 20:37:33
....
4840 when I was at school. :)

You're  right ..... but not  a conversion I've  ever needed  :y

That STMO chappie needs to stand in the corner wearing a pointy hat with a 'big D' on it.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Mister Rog on 14 March 2017, 20:39:57
When I am total and unsputed ruler of Britain, I

 ::) ::)

Yes of course. "unsputed". Someone who's had the spute removed silly  ;)

Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Andy B on 14 March 2017, 20:47:40
When I am total and unsputed ruler of Britain, I

 ::) ::)

Yes of course. "unsputed". Someone who's had the spute removed silly  ;)

 ;D ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Rods2 on 14 March 2017, 22:58:33
The Hubble telescope was a tragic example of working with mixed measurements - but they were American!  ;D

Ron.

When they were calculating how concave the mirror needed to be on Hubble, somebody used a '+' instead of a '-' in the correction equation, but still :-[ :-[ :-[ where they forgot, check twice and machine once. ::) ::) ::)

When I worked on space stuff, the amount of checking, rechecking and quality control was unreal as when it is up there and it breaks there is very little you can normally do. :o :o :o
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Bigron on 14 March 2017, 23:47:05
I'm sure stories abound about the cause of the problem (mainly due to blame-shifting!), but the way I heard it there were two teams working on the Primary Mirror (the bit that was wrong) and whereas one team were workinhg in Imperial measurements, the other team were working in metric and the conversions were not as accurate as they needed to be - hence my earlier statement.....

Ron.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: ronnyd on 15 March 2017, 00:41:43
Perhaps the guy who was supposed to be fitting my dear old Ma,s door last week had trouble with his imperial/ metric conversions. The new door was only 3" (75mm) too small. What a plonker. ::)
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Ever Ready on 15 March 2017, 07:46:57
I started working in Imperial, moved to Metric then started working for American companies who sent me all Imperial again.

I was working on a machine from Illinois last night with both Imperial & Metric fixings  ??? ???
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: zirk on 15 March 2017, 09:00:49
Seems strange that we can still buy a Pint of Milk, but have to buy our Fuel in Litres, or would people just freak out if they knew they were paying £5.50 for a Gallon of petrol.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Andy B on 15 March 2017, 09:06:31
....

I was working on a machine from Illinois last night with both Imperial & Metric fixings  ??? ???

All the machines in a machine shop I once worked in were imperial, a firm we did a lot of work for sent their drawing in metric, so the first 5mins of any new job was converting all the metric dimensions to imperial. It was common for tolerances to be given in thou on a metric dimension eg 100mm +/- 0.015"  ???  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: X30XE on 15 March 2017, 09:17:57
The only reasonable explanation for imperial I've ever heard is that in order to half a dimension all you needed to do was double the denominator.  Which meant that even retarded peasants stood half a chance in a world pre calculator  ;)
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: BazaJT on 15 March 2017, 18:24:21
Must admit I still convert measurements,torque settings back to Imperial.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: TheBoy on 15 March 2017, 18:47:53
I guess anybody under about 45-50 would be mostly metric
Shit, that means I bat both ways.... :o
But we knew that anyway ::) ;D
Only because to took me violently.  And you never rang me once afterwards :(

I feel used and dirty :P
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Matchless on 15 March 2017, 20:29:17
Nothing wrong with imperial measurements providing that you were brought up with them. I quite like the idea of the FFF system of units, that is the Furlong, Furkin and Fortnight.

We have a machine at the GCRN that has a metric engine, metric axles, imperial (UNF) gearbox and imperial (Whitworth / BSF) chassis fittings. This is OK once you know which bit you are working on and get the right tools but last week I found brake hydraulic fittings with UNF threads but metric hex sizes - presumably because they had metric hex bar in stock the week it was made.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Bigron on 15 March 2017, 20:51:18
WAY off topic, "Matchless", but does your avatar relate to a bike you once had/still have? Aaah, memories..... :y 8)

Ron.
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 16 March 2017, 10:54:27
I started working in Imperial, moved to Metric then started working for American companies who sent me all Imperial again.

I was working on a machine from Illinois last night with both Imperial & Metric fixings  ??? ???

Try a Fuel injected Rover V8 from the 80's (pre Thor), they have UNF/UNC fixings for large parts of the main castings, Whitworth on ignition systems plus some ancillaries and metric on the Bosch sourced injection setup!
Title: Re: Imperial weights and measures
Post by: Lizzie Zoom on 16 March 2017, 12:06:37
It was a chuffing mess, I guess anybody under about 45-50 would be mostly metric (In know I am!)

I'm (just ;D ;D) over that age and I am fully converted.  Metric is much easier :y :y