Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: BazaJT on 14 June 2017, 07:37:27
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This is terrible a 24 storey block of flats in London engulfed in flames from the early hours of this morning.I fear the death toll will be very high :'( :'( :'( :'(
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This is terrible a 24 storey block of flats in London engulfed in flames from the early hours of this morning.I fear the death toll will be very high :'( :'( :'( :'(
Just reading about it. Scary when you think just how many such blocks there are.
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There are going to be some gut-wrenching tales come out of this one. Women, children, whole families........I'm not looking forward to the aftermath at all. :(
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Won't be long before it falls over. Building clad in plastic inhabited by people who think that it's OK to smoke out of the window because they aren't allowed to smoke inside... As per the bloke on the news earlier :-X
Not an experience that I would wish on anyone though :'(
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For those that have survived, imagine.....going to bed with your family, being woken in the night and having to get out with no possessions, sitting in a community centre (possibly separated from your loved ones), and then, if you're very lucky and after a day of total confusion, ending up in a different part of London, in temporary accommodation with virtually nothing to call your own.
Apparently there are 125 families that need immediate accommodation, in London, not easy.
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There are, of course, worse scenarios than this, but I don't even want to think about that.
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Absolutely terrible :'( :'( :'(
This will again raise the whole questioned about the safety of these tower blocks. In this case it seems the main fire escape staircase was overcome by fire and smoke; it was the only means of escape :o :o :o. This should never be the case in the 21st century. These ridiculous 1960/1970 experiments in housing should be demolished, as many have been. But that will take so much money, but to still have families with young children at high levels in the ruddy blocks is beyond comprehension.
When you look at the pictures it is clear that still the fire brigade have not acquired the equipment to fight the fire and provide people with a means of escape at high levels. The Towering Inferno film of 40 years ago has still not got through to the authorities; if people are still going to live in these blocks, then high level fire fighting equipment must be at last provided!
Just terrible!!! :'( :'( :'( >:( >:(
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I sometimes wish the media didn't do at the scene live reporting, incessantly rolling the footage is unnecessary and is disrespectful of the victims, of which I fear there will be scores :'(
I'd be surprised if it fell down though as they are extremely strong, recent attempts to blow one up near me failed miserably
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I hope there are some serious questions asked about how the fire spread so easily between floors. It's fundamental to the design of these buildings that any fire is contained and the escape stairwells remain ventilated. If cladding the building in plastic to tart it up has cost lives then it's a disgrace. :(
My thoughts are with those caught up in this. :(
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Many a horror story to come.
Just being in the similar sized block opposite watching this disaster will be enough for some.
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Seems there was already concern... :(
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/ (https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/)
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In the seventies i worked in a 20 storey tower block on the sixteenthfloor
We had regularfire drills. I always remembered how slow we got out, sometimes they couldnnt get the fire doors open
As said the lucky ones that got out will havenothing and will no doubtnot have paper copies of important documents elsewhere andso on. I wonder howmany were nsured?
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Seems there was already concern... :(
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/ (https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/)
Jeez......that report reads like a prophesy. :o
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Or a veiled threat...
Be interesting to see what the fire investigation team say.
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I wouldn't be surprised if there was a cannabis farm in one of the flats, plenty of house fires locally due to the rigged electricity
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>:( I bet there's a few twitchy a***s in the management company / local council , cue LOTS of back covering >:(
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Trial by TV pundits.
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Absolutely terrible :'( :'( :'(
This will again raise the whole questioned about the safety of these tower blocks. In this case it seems the main fire escape staircase was overcome by fire and smoke; it was the only means of escape :o :o :o. This should never be the case in the 21st century. These ridiculous 1960/1970 experiments in housing should be demolished, as many have been. But that will take so much money, but to still have families with young children at high levels in the ruddy blocks is beyond comprehension.
When you look at the pictures it is clear that still the fire brigade have not acquired the equipment to fight the fire and provide people with a means of escape at high levels. The Towering Inferno film of 40 years ago has still not got through to the authorities; if people are still going to live in these blocks, then high level fire fighting equipment must be at last provided!
Just terrible!!! :'( :'( :'( >:( >:(
I was watching this disaster unfold this AM and could not believe that some 8 or 9 hours after the fire was reported, there was, apparently, only one fire hose playing, somewhat pathetically, on the 10th or 11th floor. I cannot believe that our fire services have nothing better in this day and age. Films of firefighting during the WW2 blitz appeared as efficient. Where are the high ladders as in New York? >:( >:( >:(
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I hope arson is not the cause. It could be as simple as kids pissing about after too much white cider and weed. Let us hope not.
Another possibility is contractors making 'extra profit' by skimping on electrical specifications.
Pure speculation at this point in time.
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I hope arson is not the cause. It could be as simple as kids pissing about after too much white cider and weed. Let us hope not.
Another possibility is contractors making 'extra profit' by skimping on electrical specifications.
Pure speculation at this point in time.
There are a lot of 'possibilities', time will tell.
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Yes investigations will be conducted to find the cause,lots of passing the buck will go on and one thing for sure when it starts flying the sh@t will always flow downhill and some poor sod at the bottom of the food chain will be held responsible!Apparently the fire safety advice on display in the building said to put a wet towel[or similar]across the bottom of the door to the flat and stay put to await rescue,the theory being that any fire would be contained near the seat of the outbreak.
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Heard about it this evening. :'(
Terrible. Thinking about the people....
We had a similar fire here in Karlsruhe in a 14 floor block two days ago. One floor burned out. Not more. What is the difference?
Rolf
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It has been suggested that the gas main fractured in the initial blaze and the fire brigade were unable to get to the shut off :-\
Clearly the cladding was a significant contributory factor in the spread of the blaze, but the initial cause could be anything from a cigarette butt to arson, with many other possible causes in between.
The initial coroners report will give an idea...
It is also somewhat unnerving that they aren't saying how many fatalities they are expecting :-\ They know roughly how many residents were officially living there, they know how many are accounted for either at the hospitals or the shelters... I have a horrible feeling it will be a three figure number :'(
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It has been suggested that the gas main fractured in the initial blaze and the fire brigade were unable to get to the shut off :-\
Clearly the cladding was a significant contributory factor in the spread of the blaze, but the initial cause could be anything from a cigarette butt to arson, with many other possible causes in between.
The initial coroners report will give an idea...
It is also somewhat unnerving that they aren't saying how many fatalities they are expecting :-\ They know roughly how many residents were officially living there, they know how many are accounted for either at the hospitals or the shelters... I have a horrible feeling it will be a three figure number :'(
I did notice in an article today they'd said the council were going to/or were in the process of installing gas pipes. Not sure if that was new install or repairs. Either way gas should have been off at the main inlet or disconnected and isolated.
Just wondering why they could not have shipped in one of those water bomb helicopters or planes?
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Probably because we don't have any...
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20 odd floors gutted, a mixture of elderly residents and families and so early in the morning. The fire spreads up and cuts of the peoples escape route down I believe this will be a disaster with multiple casualties and agree three figures, so unfortunate for those involved directly and left behind.
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Absolutely terrible :'( :'( :'(
This will again raise the whole questioned about the safety of these tower blocks. In this case it seems the main fire escape staircase was overcome by fire and smoke; it was the only means of escape :o :o :o. This should never be the case in the 21st century. These ridiculous 1960/1970 experiments in housing should be demolished, as many have been. But that will take so much money, but to still have families with young children at high levels in the ruddy blocks is beyond comprehension.
When you look at the pictures it is clear that still the fire brigade have not acquired the equipment to fight the fire and provide people with a means of escape at high levels. The Towering Inferno film of 40 years ago has still not got through to the authorities; if people are still going to live in these blocks, then high level fire fighting equipment must be at last provided!
Just terrible!!! :'( :'( :'( >:( >:(
I was watching this disaster unfold this AM and could not believe that some 8 or 9 hours after the fire was reported, there was, apparently, only one fire hose playing, somewhat pathetically, on the 10th or 11th floor. I cannot believe that our fire services have nothing better in this day and age. Films of firefighting during the WW2 blitz appeared as efficient. Where are the high ladders as in New York? >:( >:( >:(
Standard pumping appliances, the everyday kind seen driven around the streets have 13.5 metre ladders (category 1 appliance), which at full extension reaches the 3rd floor (as in g-1-2-3), and 10.5 metre ladders (cat. 2) which reach the 2nd floor. When behind an appliance you can tell the difference as the 13.5 has a jack beam, a horizontal spherical bar at the foot of the ladder.
Turntable ladders or TLs (old, mostly phased out) and aerial ladder platforms (ALPs) extend to about 32 metres max, subject to conditions and electronically limited. This would get to about the 10th or 11th floor. Some ALPs with greater reach (50m) have tipped up in North America and I don't believe are used here.
2 firefighters with a charged 70mm hose will be working hard directing it anywhere, let alone the 4-5th floors, which is probably as high as it will reach and still be effective. The higher it goes, the more pressure is needed and the harder it is to control. A monitor (device the squirts the water and doesn't need holding) won't go much higher.
Due to the structure of high rises, the only way to effectively fight fires in them is from inside. There are tried and tested procedures for this. 2 teams of 2 BA wearers from 1 and 2 floors below the fire enter with hoses charged from dry risers (used to be wet risers but maintenance too expensive). The dry riser usually has only one inlet. This allows 1 firefighting team and one covering jet. Dry riser outlets on different floors are fed from the same riser. The higher you go the more pressure you need due to gravity and friction loss. Open an outlet lower down and you'll get no or very little pressure higher, assuming of course the riser is capable of delivering the desired amount of water.
There's loads of other factors, but the most important and obvious ones is lack of access and egress from higher up, and crucially, firefighting and rescue capability. Obviously due to a whole range of reasons, like anything, reasonable control measures need to be taken. I can't imagine the logistical nightmare and the level of search and rescue coordination that needed to undertaken at this incident, never mind the difficult decisions that OiCs needed to take, and the moral pressure.
Based on what I know of this incident, and my knowledge of firefighting and the high rise procedures that my brigade has, unfortunately it seems to me that once the fire had spread to 2 adjoining floors above 10-11, the residents above will have been doomed.
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Thank you for that, Geoff. I did wonder about the stability of anything higher than the ladder being used. I jet washed a small area the other day and the back pressure from a tiny wand was amazing. The lateral force from a powerful hose at the top of a 30M ladder must be huge, I'm surprised they can even go that high.
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I cannot believe in this day and age there isnt a serviceable design for an escape device.
In 30 seconds of thinking here are just spme ideas.
Whaling harpoon to fire escape line into building.
Building mounted harpoon escape lines
Permanently fixed escape lines
Escape pods with airbags.
Internal escape pods in tubing like supermarket money system.
Cost? How much would it cost if people en masse refuse to live in towers?
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There is a proven tubular slide in use globally...
On of several variations... (https://youtu.be/UzQPpD0ud1Y)
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I see that some blocks (including one in the area near Grenvelle Tower) appears to have a stand alone stairwell block beside the main block. That should give the residents of the upper floors a fighting chance of evacuating. ???
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I cannot believe in this day and age there isnt a serviceable design for an escape device.
In 30 seconds of thinking here are just spme ideas.
Whaling harpoon to fire escape line into building.
Building mounted harpoon escape lines
Permanently fixed escape lines
Escape pods with airbags.
Internal escape pods in tubing like supermarket money system.
Cost? How much would it cost if people en masse refuse to live in towers?
Whaling harpoons would be used by local drug dealers to settle scores
Permanently fixed lines would require lots of space between buildings.
You could make your own escape pod with a quilt and pillows and throw yourself down the bin chute.
How about a building that's made of non-combustible materials and each apartment air tight from the rest with the doors and windows closed? Oh....hang on......
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How about a building that's made of non-combustible materials and each apartment air tight from the rest with the doors and windows closed? Oh....hang on......
You forgot the bit about NOT then cladding it with a flammable material to keep some tree-huggers happy qualify for some grant or other.
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How about a building that's made of non-combustible materials and each apartment air tight from the rest with the doors and windows closed? Oh....hang on......
You forgot the bit about NOT then cladding it with a flammable material to keep some tree-huggers happy qualify for some grant or other.
The original concrete cladding had/has deep flutes cast into the face. Planting slabs of insulation over the flutes would have created dozens of vertical cavities between the concrete and the insulation. If those vertical cavities were not blocked off (eg fire stopped) then they would have caused a chimney effect.
Some reports have referred to polyurethane insulation with a skin of aluminium on the outside being used. Others have mentioned that the best plastic foam has a 'class 0' for 'surface spread of flame'. Class 0 is 'self extinguishing' in laboratory conditions but it releases just as much energy in a fire as foam that hasn't been treated. Stick a lighted cigarette into it and you can get a small flame but it will then smoulder for a while before going out. Place that same piece of class 0 foam in a chimney, with a serious ignition source, and it will burn and burn fiercely.
Mistakes happen but it takes a string of errors, misunderstandings and stupidity for a truly catastrophic event to occur :(
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How about a building that's made of non-combustible materials and each apartment air tight from the rest with the doors and windows closed? Oh....hang on......
You forgot the bit about NOT then cladding it with a flammable material to keep some tree-huggers happy qualify for some grant or other.
The original concrete cladding had/has deep flutes cast into the face. Planting slabs of insulation over the flutes would have created dozens of vertical cavities between the concrete and the insulation. If those vertical cavities were not blocked off (eg fire stopped) then they would have caused a chimney effect.
Some reports have referred to polyurethane insulation with a skin of aluminium on the outside being used. Others have mentioned that the best plastic foam has a 'class 0' for 'surface spread of flame'. Class 0 is 'self extinguishing' in laboratory conditions but it releases just as much energy in a fire as foam that hasn't been treated. Stick a lighted cigarette into it and you can get a small flame but it will then smoulder for a while before going out. Place that same piece of class 0 foam in a chimney, with a serious ignition source, and it will burn and burn fiercely.
Mistakes happen but it takes a string of errors, misunderstandings and stupidity for a truly catastrophic event to occurrence :(
.......and references are being made to various major fires in tower blocks across the world where cladding has been responsible for fires travelling at speed up their sides. This should have been a wake call for the authorities, but who of them really care beyond the costs about the effect on the hard up, the poor, the working classes?! Tower blocks, as I have stated before, are a failed experiment of the 1960s / 1970s and should not be up, or at least used for families above the third floor. But no, that costs money, so let's dress them up to make people be happier living in them, no matter what the misery is caused by just being at a high level when the lifts break down, and always worried about the safety of their children. No, one rule for the rich, one for the poor no matter how much they complain about their fears, as indeed in this case and not just about broken lifts, but fire safety!
Those responsible must be prosecuted for manslaughter, and these blocks must come down no matter what it costs! >:(
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There's a reason the MD11 is no longer used as a passenger jet in any significant numbers...
Fire retardant foam insulation which, once hot enough, burns as ferociously as a diesel/kerosene blend.
Also consider that not all igniotion sources involve a spark or flame ;)
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My daughter was at the site all day today. Part of a human chain of volunteers passing water from the tube / railway station ? to where it was being stored or distributed.
She was overwhelmed by the community spirit. Older people were saying the spirit of the blitz lives on. When the going gets really tough, Londoners pull together and help one another.
She said the building is really eerie. Looks like something out of a war zone has been placed in the middle of West London.
One knobhead taking a selfie with the building as a backdrop wasn't made very welcome though.
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My daughter was at the site all day today. Part of a human chain of volunteers passing water from the tube / railway station ? to where it was being stored or distributed.
She was overwhelmed by the community spirit. Older people were saying the spirit of the blitz lives on. When the going gets really tough, Londoners pull together and help one another.
She said the building is really eerie. Looks like something out of a war zone has been placed in the middle of West London.
One knobhead taking a selfie with the building as a backdrop wasn't made very welcome though.
Good for Her. :y
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Made me think maybe I wasn't as useless a parent as I thought I had been, after all. ::) :)
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Made me think maybe I wasn't as useless a parent as I thought I had been, after all. ::) :)
Nah, it's all her Mother's influence :D
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How about a building that's made of non-combustible materials and each apartment air tight from the rest with the doors and windows closed? Oh....hang on......
You forgot the bit about NOT then cladding it with a flammable material to keep some tree-huggers happy qualify for some grant or other.
The original concrete cladding had/has deep flutes cast into the face. Planting slabs of insulation over the flutes would have created dozens of vertical cavities between the concrete and the insulation. If those vertical cavities were not blocked off (eg fire stopped) then they would have caused a chimney effect.
Some reports have referred to polyurethane insulation with a skin of aluminium on the outside being used. Others have mentioned that the best plastic foam has a 'class 0' for 'surface spread of flame'. Class 0 is 'self extinguishing' in laboratory conditions but it releases just as much energy in a fire as foam that hasn't been treated. Stick a lighted cigarette into it and you can get a small flame but it will then smoulder for a while before going out. Place that same piece of class 0 foam in a chimney, with a serious ignition source, and it will burn and burn fiercely.
Mistakes happen but it takes a string of errors, misunderstandings and stupidity for a truly catastrophic event to occurrence :(
.......and references are being made to various major fires in tower blocks across the world where cladding has been responsible for fires travelling at speed up their sides. This should have been a wake call for the authorities, but who of them really care beyond the costs about the effect on the hard up, the poor, the working classes?! Tower blocks, as I have stated before, are a failed experiment of the 1960s / 1970s and should not be up, or at least used for families above the third floor. But no, that costs money, so let's dress them up to make people be happier living in them, no matter what the misery is caused by just being at a high level when the lifts break down, and always worried about the safety of their children. No, one rule for the rich, one for the poor no matter how much they complain about their fears, as indeed in this case and not just about broken lifts, but fire safety!
Those responsible must be prosecuted for manslaughter, and these blocks must come down no matter what it costs! >:(
Money that the public sector does not have......
I think your mixing 'dressing up' with 'meeting forthcoming efficiency legislation', no Local Authority would spend £££'s fitting cladding on a building just to make it look nice when so many other Council services need investment.
Also Fire Sprinkler systems aren't legislatively required to be retrofitted to properties that were built without them over a certain period of time ago. >:(
Obviously the priorities and legislation / lack of legislation are wrong and need reversing, perhaps if this Country could put on hold all the green politics 'dangle berries' and concentrate on bringing safety matters in front of said 'dangle berries' it could prevent something so tragic and devastating as this from ever happening again.
My condolences go out to all those who have lost family and friends.
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How about a building that's made of non-combustible materials and each apartment air tight from the rest with the doors and windows closed? Oh....hang on......
You forgot the bit about NOT then cladding it with a flammable material to keep some tree-huggers happy qualify for some grant or other.
The original concrete cladding had/has deep flutes cast into the face. Planting slabs of insulation over the flutes would have created dozens of vertical cavities between the concrete and the insulation. If those vertical cavities were not blocked off (eg fire stopped) then they would have caused a chimney effect.
Some reports have referred to polyurethane insulation with a skin of aluminium on the outside being used. Others have mentioned that the best plastic foam has a 'class 0' for 'surface spread of flame'. Class 0 is 'self extinguishing' in laboratory conditions but it releases just as much energy in a fire as foam that hasn't been treated. Stick a lighted cigarette into it and you can get a small flame but it will then smoulder for a while before going out. Place that same piece of class 0 foam in a chimney, with a serious ignition source, and it will burn and burn fiercely.
Mistakes happen but it takes a string of errors, misunderstandings and stupidity for a truly catastrophic event to occurrence :(
.......and references are being made to various major fires in tower blocks across the world where cladding has been responsible for fires travelling at speed up their sides. This should have been a wake call for the authorities, but who of them really care beyond the costs about the effect on the hard up, the poor, the working classes?! Tower blocks, as I have stated before, are a failed experiment of the 1960s / 1970s and should not be up, or at least used for families above the third floor. But no, that costs money, so let's dress them up to make people be happier living in them, no matter what the misery is caused by just being at a high level when the lifts break down, and always worried about the safety of their children. No, one rule for the rich, one for the poor no matter how much they complain about their fears, as indeed in this case and not just about broken lifts, but fire safety!
Those responsible must be prosecuted for manslaughter, and these blocks must come down no matter what it costs! >:(
Money that the public sector does not have......
I think your mixing 'dressing up' with 'meeting forthcoming efficiency legislation', no Local Authority would spend £££'s fitting cladding on a building just to make it look nice when so many other Council services need investment.
Also Fire Sprinkler systems aren't legislatively required to be retrofitted to properties that were built without them over a certain period of time ago. >:(
Obviously the priorities and legislation / lack of legislation are wrong and need reversing, perhaps if this Country could put on hold all the green politics 'dangle berries' and concentrate on bringing safety matters in front of said 'dangle berries' it could prevent something so tragic and devastating as this from ever happening again.
My condolences go out to all those who have lost family and friends.
How does fancy cladding ever do anything for "efficiency" or even the environment with blocks of high rise flats built quickly and cheaply in the 1960s / 70s? Are they solar panels? No. Do they provide hot water? No. Do they help the concrete retain it's heat? No, if you ask the tenants of these blocks; that is until they provide free heating when on fire!
This block in particular is in one of the richest boroughs, and City in the World. But as I said, no one of the local ruling classes cares about the "little people", and the attitude for ever has been to house them, if "we really have to" in the cheapest solution to housing the masses. I was listening to a very angry local councilor in this borough, and he said repeated warnings were given about the fears of fire risks that were being caused by the refurbishments, but none of the managing authorities, or the company carrying out the work, Rydon, wanted to know or listen. Certain complaining tenants have even alleged that they were physically threatened by contractor representatives to "shut up" and just accept what is!
This was not about public sector money but private resource making sure they made maximum profit from the contract. As I stated there have been so many fires across the world involving this cladding, but no one thought to stop the mad dash to install it right up to now. Why? Well that is because it would stop companies and investors making their profit. Who cares about the "little people"|? They should just shut up and put up is their, and no doubt also those within the political world, attitude.
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What comes first? Money or peoples lives? Yes, everyone in authority is crying and shaking hands with the victims, with much "so sorry this has happened"; we can all give our condolences, but those words are cheap! What the vast majority of the common people want is fine, quality and safe housing for all in considerable quantity to meet the needs of the 21st century, no matter what the cost. That is what should be a fundamental human right. If there is still a resistance to this, then we have moved very little away from the slum housing of Victorian England, although at least that had a feeling of community.
No matter how you dress up (yes and I will use that term again) these high rise blocks they will still have their fundamental flaws in terms of Health and Safety, Social interaction, and physical suitability. Bring em down, and build that new, low rise, housing ;)
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http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-59885887.html
Up for rent following right to buy purchase and subsequent refurbishment... yet you accuse the contractors/councils of being greedy :-X
Anyone paying £1,700 a month to live there wants sectioning...
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In reality knocking down these high rises will never really happen....even if there another fire tomorrow.
So my first property was a flat, not high rise as such, only 7 floors and built in the mid 1930's. My flat had a share of the freehold which is rare, so by owning it I was invited to the board meetings, for the company that maintained the flats and had a vote on decisions made.
There were about 60 flats in total, at the time (2010-13) only 7 were owner-occupied including mine, the rest were rented. Some were private rented, some often to the council, which sadly let 'interesting' characters stay in them. The maintenance fee was quite high, just under 200 notes a month. (did have 2 small lifts) But only around 70% of the flats were actually paid up, many landlords did not bother paying it.
Cash flow was a real problem for maintaining the building, things had to be saved up for, like new carpet or windows. My building did not have sprinklers, although there were alarms. I'd imagine sprinklers would be a huge, huge job and massively expensive and would only do the corridors?
So something like that would have to go out to flat owners, to stump up say £500 each to get £30k and potential for setup in each flat. The issue is you will never get every flat to pay up, some won't - So the company would then have to get a loan? More costs.... other flats having to pay for others that won't pay. It's all a mess really.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-59885887.html
Up for rent following right to buy purchase and subsequent refurbishment... yet you accuse the contractors/councils of being greedy :-X
Anyone paying £1,700 a month to live there wants sectioning...
2 bed flat in Zone 1? That's good value for London. Guy I work with is looking to flat share, their budget is exactly that... so be £850 each. That's standard London costings....
I could have rented my 1 bed flat when I had it, on Zone 2 border in Acton for well over £1.2k a month
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1930s blocks are good solid buildings... ;)
70's stuff less so... built on the cheap by imported slave labour because everyone here was on strike :-X
Doesn't matter if it's 'normal' for the area... it's a ludicrous amount of money...
Similar ball park gets you this...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-67010357.html
Similar property gets you this...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-67002587.html
Incidentally, this property...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-67028033.html was one of three office buildings... two of which have just been converted to luxury appartments...
This... https://youtu.be/nAr40ycnlz8 is the third building :-X
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1930s blocks are good solid buildings... ;)
70's stuff less so... built on the cheap by imported slave labour because everyone here was on strike :-X
Doesn't matter if it's 'normal' for the area... it's a ludicrous amount of money...
Similar ball park gets you this...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-67010357.html
Similar property gets you this...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-67002587.html
Incidentally, this property...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-67028033.html was one of three office buildings... two of which have just been converted to luxury appartments...
This... https://youtu.be/nAr40ycnlz8 is the third building :-X
I'd agree, but you pay for the life-style. I loved living in Acton, less than 10 min walk to Central Line/Pic/District/Overground/Main Line and sub 30 mins easily anywhere in central London. That's what you pay for....
But yes I would not pay that either, live at home or outside London and save up to buy and put your money into a mortgage, renting is just a waste.
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Before buying my first house in the eighties I rented for 6 years. With the amount I paid in rent and the restrictions on what you could and could not do to the property I decided not to pay any more 'dead money'
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Are the BBC going to stand outside until every single person is accounted for? I wish it would piss down with rain.
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Are the BBC going to stand outside until every single person is accounted for? I wish it would piss down with rain.
Watched BBC News last night, 95% just on the tower, they flip back to the studio for about 30 seconds of other news, then it's back to the tower.
It's a big news item, but I find the wall to wall coverage and useless side notes tiresome.
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I see they've stormed the council offices. Looks like a news report from.......overseas. :-X
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I would bet that the "protest" is the usual Labour / momentum/ SWP (all the same thing now under Corbyn) - rent a mob. ;)
Corbyn and his band of Trots are calling for local empty houses to be requisitioned. A bit of state seizure of property would get them very excited.
However the human rights act so beloved by the yoghurt knitters apparently forbids this. A classic case of left wing thinking disappearing up its own arse, because it never bears close scrutiny.
Meanwhile it turns out that Kensington council actually has more than half of the houses needed sitting empty, and councils in the surrounding area should be able to chip in to supply the rest. So the dreams of the opportunist Socialists look doomed once again.
Imo, the fact that this turned party political while the flames were still burning is utterly contemptible.
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Anyone paying £1,700 a month to live there wants sectioning...
I agree. I wouldn't pay £1.70 to live there.
But even if I did want to, that is an incredible amount of money, and I'd wager the only people who can afford to are those claiming benefits.
Generally, those earning good money in London don't want to live in the shithole areas, so either go to posh places in London, or out in the suburbs. Those on the low paid workforce can't afford to live in London. Which leaves fewer choices...
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It's a big news item, but I find the wall to wall coverage and useless side notes tiresome.
I was feeling that during the day it happened. And I'd suggest if it happened outside of London (or Manchester, for the beeb), it wouldn't have been quite so intense coverage for quite so long.
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If the local council is so shit, why weren't they elected out at the local elections a month ago?
Also how many of those storming the council offices were residents of the block? Any one not a resident should be charged for breaches of the peace at least.
#Just asking...
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Under current building regulations (2006) only the surface of the cladding has to be fire-proofed to class 0, which is about surface spread. The crap behind, more often than not foam insulation or polyethylene (PE) doesn`t.
In the States these types of cladding panels (most notably PE) are banned from being used on properties exceeding 40 feet in height.
Says it all really
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Reports are now coming in that the cladding used on this building was a cheaper, less fire safe, example than is actually available at £2 more per panel.
So, as I have said, one of the richest boroughs in one of the worlds richest city fitted sub standard panels as it was housing for the poor. A bloody disgrace, and no doubt will result in heads rolling. The police have launched a criminal investigation, gathering evidence, already
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Reports are now coming in that the cladding used on this building was a cheaper, less fire safe, example than is actually available at £2 more per panel.
So, as I have said, one of the richest boroughs in one of the worlds richest city fitted sub standard panels as it was housing for the poor. A bloody disgrace, and no doubt will result in heads rolling. The police have launched a criminal investigation, gathering evidence, already
Ffs, really?
If it had been your property, and you needed 1500 panels, you would buy the £20 ones instead of the £22. Any of us would, so stop being such a sodding hypocrite.
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Reports are now coming in that the cladding used on this building was a cheaper, less fire safe, example than is actually available at £2 more per panel.
So, as I have said, one of the richest boroughs in one of the worlds richest city fitted sub standard panels as it was housing for the poor. A bloody disgrace, and no doubt will result in heads rolling. The police have launched a criminal investigation, gathering evidence, already
Unfortunately, no council is flush with cash. There is not an infinite pot. And post of the taxes collected have to go on other things, deemed more important by the do-gooders.
TBH, *IF* it is the cladding, they would have been better off doing SFA, but these places are deemed to need regeneration, and the same do-gooders say they needed better insulation.
So possibly the heads that need to roll aren't those poor sods trying to make the money stretch, but those that come up with unworkable, expensive ideas.
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The core was clearly as much on fire as the outside... Be surprised if the final tally isn't well over 150...
It ain't right and it sure ain't fair. But life's like that sometimes.
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I would bet that the "protest" is the usual Labour / momentum/ SWP (all the same thing now under Corbyn) - rent a mob. ;)
Corbyn and his band of Trots are calling for local empty houses to be requisitioned. A bit of state seizure of property would get them very excited.
However the human rights act so beloved by the yoghurt knitters apparently forbids this. A classic case of left wing thinking disappearing up its own arse, because it never bears close scrutiny.
Meanwhile it turns out that Kensington council actually has more than half of the houses needed sitting empty, and councils in the surrounding area should be able to chip in to supply the rest. So the dreams of the opportunist Socialists look doomed once again.
Imo, the fact that this turned party political while the flames were still burning is utterly contemptible.
[/
Don't go betting too much, Albs, you must have lost a bit on the landslide bet.
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The core was clearly as much on fire as the outside... Be surprised if the final tally isn't well over 150...
It ain't right and it sure ain't fair. But life's like that sometimes.
I wonder if your sentiments would be the same if it were your friends or family members :-X
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you would buy the £20 ones instead of the £22. Any of us would,
Rather a wild generalisation. personally speaking, if it was a choice between safety or saving a few bob, safety would be at the forefront
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Reports are now coming in that the cladding used on this building was a cheaper, less fire safe, example than is actually available at £2 more per panel.
So, as I have said, one of the richest boroughs in one of the worlds richest city fitted sub standard panels as it was housing for the poor. A bloody disgrace, and no doubt will result in heads rolling. The police have launched a criminal investigation, gathering evidence, already
Ffs, really?
If it had been your property, and you needed 1500 panels, you would buy the £20 ones instead of the £22. Any of us would, so stop being such a sodding hypocrite.
No you wouldn't, if you were responsible for the safety of hundreds of families and you knew these panels were not up to the highest standard. We as a family always bought the best from a H&S point of view for our family, and would never skimp when their lives were involved!
So , no, I am not being a "sodding hypocrite" as you so nicely put it, and stop being so bloody rude when all people are doing is expressing an opinion. You never stop inputting on every damn thread you can as though you have nothing better to do! As I have stated before it is not surprising this forum has not still got scores of members contributing. Apart from us who are able to hold our own, who would when you are always there being cynical and plain bloody rude to other members.
Get off my back! >:( >:(
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What is about Polat Tower Istanbul?
The fire was comparable. But it did not went much inside the building. No one was seriously hurt. The tower could be reconstructed and it is still i use.
What went wrong in London?
Rolf
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I would bet that the "protest" is the usual Labour / momentum/ SWP (all the same thing now under Corbyn) - rent a mob. ;)
Corbyn and his band of Trots are calling for local empty houses to be requisitioned. A bit of state seizure of property would get them very excited.
However the human rights act so beloved by the yoghurt knitters apparently forbids this. A classic case of left wing thinking disappearing up its own arse, because it never bears close scrutiny.
Meanwhile it turns out that Kensington council actually has more than half of the houses needed sitting empty, and councils in the surrounding area should be able to chip in to supply the rest. So the dreams of the opportunist Socialists look doomed once again.
Imo, the fact that this turned party political while the flames were still burning is utterly contemptible.
[/
Don't go betting too much, Albs, you must have lost a bit on the landslide bet.
Me and almost everyone in the country. It was as certain as a bet could be, until it became obvious that May has no judgement whatsoever, no advisers who live on planet earth, and Corbyn wrote an unbelievable number of cheques he could never cash.
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Reports are now coming in that the cladding used on this building was a cheaper, less fire safe, example than is actually available at £2 more per panel.
So, as I have said, one of the richest boroughs in one of the worlds richest city fitted sub standard panels as it was housing for the poor. A bloody disgrace, and no doubt will result in heads rolling. The police have launched a criminal investigation, gathering evidence, already
Ffs, really?
If it had been your property, and you needed 1500 panels, you would buy the £20 ones instead of the £22. Any of us would, so stop being such a sodding hypocrite.
so you're a slum landlord are you? i would pay £2 extra and get the fire resistant ones. especially if i thought it might save hundreds of lives. especially if i thought i might get sacked when the people died and my decision was found out. not that that will happen unfortunately but it damn should.
apprently retro fitting sprinklers during the £8 million refit would have cost £200k. less than £2,000 per life.
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What is about Polat Tower Istanbul?
The fire was comparable. But it did not went much inside the building. No one was seriously hurt. The tower could be reconstructed and it is still i use.
What went wrong in London?
Rolf
strong wind during that one may have made the difference, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUBoKOZC9M8 compared to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRS3PRyCbY
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One thing's for sure is that a lot of people (probably worldwide) will make an absolute killing ripping off this sort of cladding and insulation and replacing it with non flammable products. :-X
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This nice fella got what he deserved:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/16/man-jailed-sharing-photo-dead-grenfell-tower-fire-victim-facebook/
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you would buy the £20 ones instead of the £22. Any of us would,
Rather a wild generalisation. personally speaking, if it was a choice between safety or saving a few bob, safety would be at the forefront
No more than the plucked from thin air £2 number... Which incidentally buys an extra 10mm of foam thickness per square metre.
A quantity surveyor tasked with shaving the budget probably didn't even blink...
The panels used were within code. If they weren't they wouldn't have been used. It's as simple as that. There are always better or more expensive ways of doing something... 99,999 times the most efficient way is perfectly adequate, this tragedy is the odd one out... Think the lower grade rivets on the Titanic.
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Reports are now coming in that the cladding used on this building was a cheaper, less fire safe, example than is actually available at £2 more per panel.
So, as I have said, one of the richest boroughs in one of the worlds richest city fitted sub standard panels as it was housing for the poor. A bloody disgrace, and no doubt will result in heads rolling. The police have launched a criminal investigation, gathering evidence, already
Ffs, really?
If it had been your property, and you needed 1500 panels, you would buy the £20 ones instead of the £22. Any of us would, so stop being such a sodding hypocrite.
No you wouldn't, if you were responsible for the safety of hundreds of families and you knew these panels were not up to the highest standard. We as a family always bought the best from a H&S point of view for our family, and would never skimp when their lives were involved!
So , no, I am not being a "sodding hypocrite" as you so nicely put it, and stop being so bloody rude when all people are doing is expressing an opinion. You never stop inputting on every damn thread you can as though you have nothing better to do! As I have stated before it is not surprising this forum has not still got scores of members contributing. Apart from us who are able to hold our own, who would when you are always there being cynical and plain bloody rude to other members.
Get off my back! >:( >:(
well said :y :y
by the way estimates suggest that the cost of using the more expensive version (of the panels) would have cost about £5,000, that's for the whole building. so about £33 a life: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fire-resistant-grenfell-tower-cladding-10631733
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you would buy the £20 ones instead of the £22. Any of us would,
Rather a wild generalisation. personally speaking, if it was a choice between safety or saving a few bob, safety would be at the forefront
No more than the plucked from thin air £2 number... Which incidentally buys an extra 10mm of foam thickness per square metre.
A quantity surveyor tasked with shaving the budget probably didn't even blink...
The panels used were within code. If they weren't they wouldn't have been used. It's as simple as that. There are always better or more expensive ways of doing something... 99,999 times the most efficient way is perfectly adequate, this tragedy is the odd one out... Think the lower grade rivets on the Titanic.
the panels are banned in the USA and Germany http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/
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Reports are now coming in that the cladding used on this building was a cheaper, less fire safe, example than is actually available at £2 more per panel.
So, as I have said, one of the richest boroughs in one of the worlds richest city fitted sub standard panels as it was housing for the poor. A bloody disgrace, and no doubt will result in heads rolling. The police have launched a criminal investigation, gathering evidence, already
Ffs, really?
If it had been your property, and you needed 1500 panels, you would buy the £20 ones instead of the £22. Any of us would, so stop being such a sodding hypocrite.
No you wouldn't, if you were responsible for the safety of hundreds of families and you knew these panels were not up to the highest standard. We as a family always bought the best from a H&S point of view for our family, and would never skimp when their lives were involved!
So , no, I am not being a "sodding hypocrite" as you so nicely put it, and stop being so bloody rude when all people are doing is expressing an opinion. You never stop inputting on every damn thread you can as though you have nothing better to do! As I have stated before it is not surprising this forum has not still got scores of members contributing. Apart from us who are able to hold our own, who would when you are always there being cynical and plain bloody rude to other members.
Get off my back! >:( >:(
well said :y :y
by the way estimates suggest that the cost of using the more expensive version (of the panels) would have cost about £5,000, that's for the whole building. so about £33 a life: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fire-resistant-grenfell-tower-cladding-10631733
That's assuming the more expensive panels would have prevented the loss off life, which is a big assumption at this stage. ;)
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This nice fella got what he deserved:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/16/man-jailed-sharing-photo-dead-grenfell-tower-fire-victim-facebook/
wow thats fast justice. can't see it being delivered so quickly for the people responsible for the deaths. can't see them pleading guilty either..
also don't paid professional war photographers take those sort of pictures all the time? oh silly me they take pics of dead foreigners so thats ok ???.
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That's assuming the more expensive panels would have prevented the loss off life, which is a big assumption at this stage. ;)
big, like £33 per person worth of big ???
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This nice fella got what he deserved:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/16/man-jailed-sharing-photo-dead-grenfell-tower-fire-victim-facebook/
wow thats fast justice. can't see it being delivered so quickly for the people responsible for the deaths. can't see them pleading guilty either..
also don't paid professional war photographers take those sort6s of pictures all the time? oh silly me they take pics of dead foreigners so thats ok ???.
I think the point is that this particular dead body hadn't yet been identified and seeing your missing relative burned and in a body bag is probably not a good way to find out what happened to them.
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I'm just watching the news and my sympathy for the survivors is diminishing somewhat. ::)
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That's assuming the more expensive panels would have prevented the loss off life, which is a big assumption at this stage. ;)
big, like £33 per person worth of big ???
That doesn't even make sense. ???
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That's assuming the more expensive panels would have prevented the loss off life, which is a big assumption at this stage. ;)
big, like £33 per person worth of big ???
That doesn't even make sense. ???
must be all those copper molecules in the air ;)
let me explain - it would have cost £33 per dead person to fit the fire resistant ones. £5,000 for the whole building. On a 10 million pound refurbishment budget. do you really need to spend much time making certain that they would have saved lives to make the decision to spend that?
anyway its not a big assumption that fire resistant panels are more fire resistant than the non fire resistant version is it? ::)
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Presumably the panels met the regulations at the time.
Did the steel that melted in the twin towers meet spec and building regs? Rhetorical question.
Lets hope the lessons learnt are actually implemented. I suspect they wont be once rhe focus moves to something else.
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I'm just watching the news and my sympathy for the survivors is diminishing somewhat. ::)
The amount of "survivors" who seem to be popping up on the news, threatening court cases,and their will be riots if they try to 're- house us somewhere else.
Some of them will be 're-housed in other area's, as k+c council will ask other councils do you have properties.
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apprently retro fitting sprinklers during the £8 million refit would have cost £200k. less than £2,000 per life.
And where would this cash come from? And remember, the local authority would be refurbing several buildings at the same time.
The local authority paid the contractor to refurb it to the legal requirements (and probably the mandatory requirements for the next few years). We're yet to see if somebody illegally cut corners somewhere along the way.
Just because Corbyn implied he had a money tree forest during the election, that don't make it real. The work isn't going to get done for free. Somebody has to pay for it, and its not going to be the people living there if its an authority owned block. An the authority has over financial demands from all the other spongers it has to support.
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I'm just watching the news and my sympathy for the survivors is diminishing somewhat. ::)
The amount of "survivors" who seem to be popping up on the news, threatening court cases,and their will be riots if they try to 're- house us somewhere else.
Some of them will be 're-housed in other area's, as k+c council will ask other councils do you have properties.
Yup. More for the cull list. If you gave them Buckingham Palace for free, they'd complain.
I pay for house insurance, and have suffered a significant fire (a few mins away from losing the house), had the house gone or deemed unsafe by the fire services, my insurance would have covered temporary accommodation, until house rebuilt or financially settled.
Presumably these people are above paying for thet?
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I'm just watching the news and my sympathy for the survivors is diminishing somewhat. ::)
The amount of "survivors" who seem to be popping up on the news, threatening court cases,and their will be riots if they try to 're- house us somewhere else.
Some of them will be 're-housed in other area's, as k+c council will ask other councils do you have properties.
Yup. More for the cull list. If you gave them Buckingham Palace for free, they'd complain.
I pay for house insurance, and have suffered a significant fire (a few mins away from losing the house), had the house gone or deemed unsafe by the fire services, my insurance would have covered temporary accommodation, until house rebuilt or financially settled.
Presumably these people are above paying for thet?
A vast majority of those in social housing, seem to think that they pay rent, and that entitles them to the world, Once the fire services have conducted there investigation, and the outcome of the refurbishment, if refurbishment was all to the regulations of the day, and the fire was started by a cigarette or something else, let's see what would happen if all the residents try to. claim from them.
As TB says those of us with our homes should and do take out insurance, nothing to stop social housing tenants being responsible and doing the same...
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I lived in a council house for years. Of course you take out insurance, be silly not too. But, of course, if you're on benefits, it would, imo, be unaffordable.
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Now I come to think of it, Wakefield council did offer contents insurance on top of your rent for about £4 a week. Don't know if other councils do this.
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Reports are now coming in that the cladding used on this building was a cheaper, less fire safe, example than is actually available at £2 more per panel.
So, as I have said, one of the richest boroughs in one of the worlds richest city fitted sub standard panels as it was housing for the poor. A bloody disgrace, and no doubt will result in heads rolling. The police have launched a criminal investigation, gathering evidence, already
Ffs, really?
If it had been your property, and you needed 1500 panels, you would buy the £20 ones instead of the £22. Any of us would, so stop being such a sodding hypocrite.
No you wouldn't, if you were responsible for the safety of hundreds of families and you knew these panels were not up to the highest standard. We as a family always bought the best from a H&S point of view for our family, and would never skimp when their lives were involved!
So , no, I am not being a "sodding hypocrite" as you so nicely put it, and stop being so bloody rude when all people are doing is expressing an opinion. You never stop inputting on every damn thread you can as though you have nothing better to do! As I have stated before it is not surprising this forum has not still got scores of members contributing. Apart from us who are able to hold our own, who would when you are always there being cynical and plain bloody rude to other members.
Get off my back! >:( >:(
well said :y :y
by the way estimates suggest that the cost of using the more expensive version (of the panels) would have cost about £5,000, that's for the whole building. so about £33 a life: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fire-resistant-grenfell-tower-cladding-10631733
That's assuming the more expensive panels would have prevented the loss off life, which is a big assumption at this stage. ;)
That is what the experts in that field are saying, plus the outstanding question about how they were fitted, with fire breaks or not. It will all come out in the inquires to come ;)
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I lived in a council house for years. Of course you take out insurance, be silly not too. But, of course, if you're on benefits, it would, imo, be unaffordable.
Exactly right :y :y
When you have £20 left in your pocket to feed the kids for the week, what do you do? Spend a part of it on insurance, or give your kids a meal each of the 7 days, or just on 6?!
As for those living in a block of high rise flats, they may well insure on a contents only basis, which in any other ground based home would be just fine, but they are taking the risk of potential fires, floods and explosions in potentially 119 other homes. With the increasing possibility that the recent refurbishment was sub-standard, they perhaps should have insured for that as well? Coming out of that "spare" £20 per week?
No, of course not, and that is why the authorities must step in and help out these families who have lost everything, including relatives and friends, regardless of their "insured" status. What they have seen and heard many not familiar with a battleground situation would never have experienced before, and that is something that will need much state help for them to gradually resolve in their minds, if they ever do! Even hardened fire fighters, medics and police have never seen anything like it before, and they will need all the assistance "we", the greater society, can give them. ;)
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Yup. More for the cull list. If you gave them Buckingham Palace for free, they'd complain.
I pay for house insurance, and have suffered a significant fire (a few mins away from losing the house), had the house gone or deemed unsafe by the fire services, my insurance would have covered temporary accommodation, until house rebuilt or financially settled.
Presumably these people are above paying for thet?
"cull list" ??? ??? ??? ???
you paid insurance because you own the house. if you rented it from a landlord or a council you would sort of expect the owner to insure their building, not the tenant ::)
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Interesting how all the armchair experts are out spreading their opinions worldwide... Costs per person is amazing as the final numbers have yet to be confirmed ::)
As for the sprinklers... There are numerous reports that the residents didn't want them fitted because of the disruption - how much truth there is in these reports I don't know.
What I do know is that the residents aren't helping their cause with the rioting.
Time will tell
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Yup. More for the cull list. If you gave them Buckingham Palace for free, they'd complain.
I pay for house insurance, and have suffered a significant fire (a few mins away from losing the house), had the house gone or deemed unsafe by the fire services, my insurance would have covered temporary accommodation, until house rebuilt or financially settled.
Presumably these people are above paying for thet?
"cull list" ??? ??? ??? ???
you paid insurance because you own the house. if you rented it from a landlord or a council you would sort of expect the owner to insure their building, not the tenant ::)
I'm sure the building is insured, the contents however :-X
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I wonder what type of 'lego block' cladding they have stuck on the sides..... ::)
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15354372.Grenfell_Tower_contractor_behind_building_of_multi_million_pound_new_Swindon_health_centre/
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I did hear on TV the other day a statement by some official or other that installing sprinklers was an option but that there was no "consensus of opinion"among the residents in favour of the idea so they weren't installed.I'm no fire expert so I don't know whether sprinklers would have averted this tragedy but I'd have thought they'd have helped in part at least.However hindsight is a wonderful thing is it not?
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As a student I had to pay contents insurance in a rented property.
If you can't afford kids, don't have them. Simples. Third world attitudes to family planning, coupled with a perceived right to everything, is what has completely destroyed the social support system in the UK.
Alot of those who were last heard from before the fire took over were staying behind to be with others, be they pets friends or neighbours. If they could see the behaviour of some that survived, they would be devastated :'(
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I did hear on TV the other day a statement by some official or other that installing sprinklers was an option but that there was no "consensus of opinion"among the residents in favour of the idea so they weren't installed.I'm no fire expert so I don't know whether sprinklers would have averted this tragedy but I'd have thought they'd have helped in part at least.However hindsight is a wonderful thing is it not?
Apparently they kicked up such a stink about the fact that the gas pipes were moved into common areas (presumably to reduce ongoing maintenance costs by facilitating access) that the sprinklers probably didn't get a look in... :-\
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I lived in a council house for years. Of course you take out insurance, be silly not too. But, of course, if you're on benefits, it would, imo, be unaffordable.
Exactly right :y :y
When you have £20 left in your pocket to feed the kids for the week, what do you do? Spend a part of it on insurance, or give your kids a meal each of the 7 days, or just on 6?!
As for those living in a block of high rise flats, they may well insure on a contents only basis, which in any other ground based home would be just fine, but they are taking the risk of potential fires, floods and explosions in potentially 119 other homes. With the increasing possibility that the recent refurbishment was sub-standard, they perhaps should have insured for that as well? Coming out of that "spare" £20 per week?
No, of course not, and that is why the authorities must step in and help out these families who have lost everything, including relatives and friends, regardless of their "insured" status. What they have seen and heard many not familiar with a battleground situation would never have experienced before, and that is something that will need much state help for them to gradually resolve in their minds, if they ever do! Even hardened fire fighters, medics and police have never seen anything like it before, and they will need all the assistance "we", the greater society, can give them. ;)
.
£20 a week left, is that after they've paid sky, bought fags, hp on the 42" television, topped up the i-phone7s, then think O better get some food from the food bank.
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I lived in a council house for years. Of course you take out insurance, be silly not too. But, of course, if you're on benefits, it would, imo, be unaffordable.
Exactly right :y :y
When you have £20 left in your pocket to feed the kids for the week, what do you do? Spend a part of it on insurance, or give your kids a meal each of the 7 days, or just on 6?!
As for those living in a block of high rise flats, they may well insure on a contents only basis, which in any other ground based home would be just fine, but they are taking the risk of potential fires, floods and explosions in potentially 119 other homes. With the increasing possibility that the recent refurbishment was sub-standard, they perhaps should have insured for that as well? Coming out of that "spare" £20 per week?
No, of course not, and that is why the authorities must step in and help out these families who have lost everything, including relatives and friends, regardless of their "insured" status. What they have seen and heard many not familiar with a battleground situation would never have experienced before, and that is something that will need much state help for them to gradually resolve in their minds, if they ever do! Even hardened fire fighters, medics and police have never seen anything like it before, and they will need all the assistance "we", the greater society, can give them. ;)
.
£20 a week left, is that after they've paid sky, bought fags, hp on the 42" television, topped up the i-phone7s, then think O better get some food from the food bank.
You are over generalizing and working on stereotypical images of "benefit families". Some are of course like that, but most are a lot of genuinely hard up people out there who through no fault of their own are going through very hard times and do need much help.
Mostly the unskilled jobs in heavy industry where it was all about your ability to do hard labour, not possess a degree, have gone, with zero hour contracts and low basic rates of pay on offer to those at the bottom of the social scale. Our advanced, high tech society that we all encourage has a lot to answer for, and in the meantime the poor get poorer. :'( :'(
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Apparently they kicked up such a stink about the fact that the gas pipes were moved into common areas the fire escape staircase!(presumably to reduce ongoing maintenance costs by facilitating access) that the sprinklers probably didn't get a look in... :-\
corrected that for you :y
people are so picky about where their highly flammable gas is piped nowadays ::)
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Presumably the panels met the regulations at the time.
Did the steel that melted in the twin towers meet spec and building regs? Rhetorical question.
Lets hope the lessons learnt are actually implemented. I suspect they wont be once rhe focus moves to something else.
there is something here that i think the media is missing. If you look on the Council's website, the cladding work was done under a building notice. That notice records the work as "completed Not approved" no one is focussing on that in the media.
did building control not approve the work because they knew about the panels? if so why did they not take enforcement action?
of course they may not have approved for other reasons but to my thinking there are two routes for this to take
Regulations today ARE sufficient and they were not enforced properly ( in which case you have to ask why: failure of council, enforcement powers not strong enough....) or
Regs are not adequate and have to be amended.
I have no clue which but there is something not quite right with the building control notice for the cladding, that's for sure. Anyone can see this, search on RBKC building control site for the tower
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On the way to work this evening I was listening to a discussion about this on LBC. One of the contributors stated that she knew for a fact that in the 1980,s comrade Corbyn voted against the introduction of sprinklers in high rise flats.
No idea if this is true, but I would like to find out.
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All socialists are equal, but some are more equal than others :-X
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On the way to work this evening I was listening to a discussion about this on LBC. One of the contributors stated that she knew for a fact that in the 1980,s comrade Corbyn voted against the introduction of sprinklers in high rise flats.
No idea if this is true, but I would like to find out.
that would have been just after he put the INLA bomb in Airey Neave's car, in the House of Commons car park :o
sadly some of you will take that seriously too ::).
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On the way to work this evening I was listening to a discussion about this on LBC. One of the contributors stated that she knew for a fact that in the 1980,s comrade Corbyn voted against the introduction of sprinklers in high rise flats.
No idea if this is true, but I would like to find out.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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All socialists are equal, but some are more equal than others :-X
Double ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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There are some very bitter folk about. ;D
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Now the experts and observers are stating the cladding used in this tower block is banned in most European countries, along with the USA. It is even suspected it is actually banned here in the UK!! :o :o
Heads are going to roll >:(
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Now the experts and observers are stating the cladding used in this tower block is banned in most European countries, along with the USA. It is even suspected it is actually banned here in the UK!! :o :o
Heads are going to roll >:(
agreed, heads should roll. what we don't know is whether the cladding material met English regs (note that Scotland, Wales and NI have devolved control on building regs) in which case Regs should change OR
The cladding did not meet regs, the Council in their role as building control knew that it did not meet regs but did not enforce. (whilst building control can be passed to private companies, Enforcement powers rest with the Council...)
there seems to be a presumption that Regs are not sufficient but it could be that that are and work was not carried out to a sufficient standard.
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Now the experts and observers are stating the cladding used in this tower block is banned in most European countries, along with the USA. It is even suspected it is actually banned here in the UK!! :o :o
Heads are going to roll >:(
agreed, heads should roll. what we don't know is whether the cladding material met English regs (note that Scotland, Wales and NI have devolved control on building regs) in which case Regs should change OR
The cladding did not meet regs, the Council in their role as building control knew that it did not meet regs but did not enforce. (whilst building control can be passed to private companies, Enforcement powers rest with the Council...)
there seems to be a presumption that Regs are not sufficient but it could be that that are and work was not carried out to a sufficient standard.
Or did they meet regs when fitted but now the regs have changed?
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Any mention yet of the temperature of the fire?
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That is what the experts in that field are saying, plus the outstanding question about how they were fitted, with fire breaks or not. It will all come out in the inquires to come ;)
Be careful with "experts" that the media bring in. They bring in "experts" who are controversial, and say what that media outlet want, in order to keep a story alive.
They might be right, they might be wrong. Either way, they can't be trusted. So lets wait for the fire investigation report, and any other enquiries :)
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You are over generalizing and working on stereotypical images of "benefit families". Some are of course like that, but most are a lot of genuinely hard up people out there who through no fault of their own are going through very hard times and do need much help.
All the "survivors" being interviewed on the day, did you not notice, they'd managed to get out of the building and picked up their large smartphones, even if not their relatives/neighbours....
When I used to do a lot more egay (before all the prats came online), I used to go out at lunchtime to the Postoffice to post all the stuff. I work in Bletchley, now a suburb of Milton Keynes. Bletchley has a lot of poor families, and is generally quite run down (like many areas, though, with areas of normality, and areas of more affluence... ...but the majority is poor). Anyway, back to the Postoffice - they had their clientele nailed. Every single time I was in there, suck behind the teenage mum collecting her giro, while her 3 or more kids are running riot around the shop area. So she'd collect the giro, but the shop had the intelligence to sell fags and lotto, so she'd blow £15 on 60 fags, and the same again of lotto tickets and scratchcards. No wonder the little baskets that had by now wrecked the joint were unable to afford clothes that weren't full of holes, or last saw a washing machine the day they were bought.
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
That's £5500. Does that improve things for you? ;D
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
That's £5500. Does that improve things for you? ;D
NO >:(
See, the anger of it meant I couldn't even type a single figure ;D
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
That's because you've proved you can't wreck the entire property. Ensure that you have an old fridge in the garage for a better result next time ;)
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
That's because you've proved you can't wreck the entire property. Ensure that you have an old fridge in the garage for a better result next time ;)
'Twas a bleddy good effort, though. :y
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That is what the experts in that field are saying, plus the outstanding question about how they were fitted, with fire breaks or not. It will all come out in the inquires to come ;)
Be careful with "experts" that the media bring in. They bring in "experts" who are controversial, and say what that media outlet want, in order to keep a story alive.
They might be right, they might be wrong. Either way, they can't be trusted. So lets wait for the fire investigation report, and any other enquiries :)
This morning it included an MP who believes this particular cladding is banned in the UK as it is elsewhere, and was not signed off by the local authority. ;)
But as you say TB, it will all come out in due course.
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
OK TB, swap places with one of those tenants who have lost everything, had their families put at risk, even losing a member or two. Is £5,000 a lot of money then?
The contents of my flat alone I insure for up to £50K, as £5,000 would only just about cover the cost of furnishing and re-equipping the front room ::) ::)
I feel no anger about what these poor sods get, who were failed miserably by the people who were responsible for the refurbishment, and only feel very sad that they have had to go through such an ordeal. :'( :'( Let the government pay them the money, then reclaim it back from the contractors as they are found guilty of gross negligence and manslaughter.
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
That's because you've proved you can't wreck the entire property. Ensure that you have an old fridge in the garage for a better result next time ;)
I did, and it might have been the ignition source ;)
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LZ, why is it one rule for the spongers in life, and another for those who manage to get by without handouts.
And where is that £5500 x 80-90 flats going to come from? Any finance specialist will make sure it doesn't come from the contractor. So, its going to come from the taxes I pay, which will mean that authority will have even less money. And, I repeat, why wouldn't I have been entitled to it? Because I paid for some insurance? Or because I'm not in Manchester/London, so the media don't give a shit?
Maybe I should have rioted around the local council building >:(
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LZ, why is it one rule for the spongers in life, and another for those who manage to get by without handouts.
And where is that £5500 x 80-90 flats going to come from? Any finance specialist will make sure it doesn't come from the contractor. So, its going to come from the taxes I pay, which will mean that authority will have even less money. And, I repeat, why wouldn't I have been entitled to it? Because I paid for some insurance? Or because I'm not in Manchester/London, so the media don't give a shit?
Maybe I should have rioted around the local council building >:(
Oh dear, I feel I may upset you again. It's £5500 per person, not per flat ;D
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LZ, why is it one rule for the spongers in life, and another for those who manage to get by without handouts.
And where is that £5500 x 80-90 flats going to come from? Any finance specialist will make sure it doesn't come from the contractor. So, its going to come from the taxes I pay, which will mean that authority will have even less money. And, I repeat, why wouldn't I have been entitled to it? Because I paid for some insurance? Or because I'm not in Manchester/London, so the media don't give a shit?
Maybe I should have rioted around the local council building >:(
Oh dear, I feel I may upset you again. It's £5500 per person, not per flat ;D
Surely to are taking the f'ing piss :o
So where's my £11k?
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LZ, why is it one rule for the spongers in life, and another for those who manage to get by without handouts.
And where is that £5500 x 80-90 flats going to come from? Any finance specialist will make sure it doesn't come from the contractor. So, its going to come from the taxes I pay, which will mean that authority will have even less money. And, I repeat, why wouldn't I have been entitled to it? Because I paid for some insurance? Or because I'm not in Manchester/London, so the media don't give a shit?
Maybe I should have rioted around the local council building >:(
Oh dear, I feel I may upset you again. It's £5500 per person, not per flat ;D
Surely to are taking the f'ing piss :o
So where's my £11k?
I shall check my sources, but I hope think I'm right. ;D
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Hmmmm...it says 'families' will receive the money, but that's no good. A family of five will need more than a family of two. I feel a demonstration coming on. >:(
But no matter, Mother Theresa says there's more, if they need it. :)
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O dear. Vote TB :y.
So for every person who was a resident , they get £5000, as an initial payment there's more to come, so Mr and Mrs and 5 kids will get a nice £35k, then there's more, So Mr+Mrs TB are entitled to an initial payment of £10k then back dated plus inflation.
So the government have now set a precedent, anybody who is made homeless by fire, will be entitled to it, so no more house insurance required.
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Hmmmm...it says 'families' will receive the money, but that's no good. A family of five will need more than a family of two. I feel a demonstration coming on. >:(
But no matter, Mother Theresa says there's more, if they need it. :)
Would a vigil help?
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Hmmmm...it says 'families' will receive the money, but that's no good. A family of five will need more than a family of two. I feel a demonstration coming on. >:(
But no matter, Mother Theresa says there's more, if they need it. :)
Would a vigil help?
Always. It's such a practical solution to all of the world's problems.
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Just to cheer TB up, by 2020, everybody in employment in the UK that pays tax will be paying £1000+pa in the form of £13bn pa to keep dictators in power, with the lifestyle they expect with foreign aid and £17bn pa to give the tree huggers a rosy glow where it will subsidise useless windmills etc. which will save the planet, apparently. :( :( :(
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
OK TB, swap places with one of those tenants who have lost everything, had their families put at risk, even losing a member or two. Is £5,000 a lot of money then?
The contents of my flat alone I insure for up to £50K, as £5,000 would only just about cover the cost of furnishing and re-equipping the front room ::) ::)
I feel no anger about what these poor sods get, who were failed miserably by the people who were responsible for the refurbishment, and only feel very sad that they have had to go through such an ordeal. :'( :'( Let the government pay them the money, then reclaim it back from the contractors as they are found guilty of gross negligence and manslaughter.
would you say that if it were found that the council instructed the contractor to use that cladding or that the council in their duty to enforce building control, failed to enforce? it is easy to blame the contractor but the council have the statutory building control duty. what if the contractor proposed those materials and the council agreed as their customer?
my hunch is that a proportion of blame rests with the council - just not sure home much.
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It's pointless to speculate, it will all come out in the wash.
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
OK TB, swap places with one of those tenants who have lost everything, had their families put at risk, even losing a member or two. Is £5,000 a lot of money then?
The contents of my flat alone I insure for up to £50K, as £5,000 would only just about cover the cost of furnishing and re-equipping the front room ::) ::)
I feel no anger about what these poor sods get, who were failed miserably by the people who were responsible for the refurbishment, and only feel very sad that they have had to go through such an ordeal. :'( :'( Let the government pay them the money, then reclaim it back from the contractors as they are found guilty of gross negligence and manslaughter.
would you say that if it were found that the council instructed the contractor to use that cladding or that the council in their duty to enforce building control, failed to enforce? it is easy to blame the contractor but the council have the statutory building control duty. what if the contractor proposed those materials and the council agreed as their customer?
my hunch is that a proportion of blame rests with the council - just not sure home much.
I suspect that there will be a lot of buck passing, back covering and memory loss between the contractors, council, Government etc., etc., until they all realise the common denominator is they all used the same tea lady and she will carry the can. :( :( :(
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The new Labour MP for Kensington, in her previous job as a councillor, was on the housing scrutiny committee which oversaw the refurb of the flats.
You can bet your arse she wont carry the can for anything. ::)
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The new Labour MP for Kensington, in her previous job as a councillor, was on the housing scrutiny committee which oversaw the refurb of the flats.
You can bet your arse she wont carry the can for anything. ::)
Can't beat a good conspiracy...
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Just to cheer TB up, by 2020, everybody in employment in the UK that pays tax will be paying £1000+pa in the form of £13bn pa to keep dictators in power, with the lifestyle they expect with foreign aid and £17bn pa to give the tree huggers a rosy glow where it will subsidise useless windmills etc. which will save the planet, apparently. :( :( :(
could always get 5 men on the planet to cover all that :y https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/06/12/now-just-five-men-own-almost-much-wealth-half-worlds-population
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Just to cheer TB up, by 2020, everybody in employment in the UK that pays tax will be paying £1000+pa in the form of £13bn pa to keep dictators in power, with the lifestyle they expect with foreign aid and £17bn pa to give the tree huggers a rosy glow where it will subsidise useless windmills etc. which will save the planet, apparently. :( :( :(
could always get 5 men on the planet to cover all that :y https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/06/12/now-just-five-men-own-almost-much-wealth-half-worlds-population
You fail to grasp there are not enough well off people to pay for the ever increasing number of spongers. And why should those 5 pay for everybody who thinks the world just owes them?
Then ethics aside, if you were a rich person, and you were told you by the government that you had to give it all away to people who will just burn through it with no end gain, what would you do? Probably leave the country, taking you wealth out of reach of said government. Leaving even fewer well off people in the country.
I do love to hear from the money tree believers.
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Just to cheer TB up, by 2020, everybody in employment in the UK that pays tax will be paying £1000+pa in the form of £13bn pa to keep dictators in power, with the lifestyle they expect with foreign aid and £17bn pa to give the tree huggers a rosy glow where it will subsidise useless windmills etc. which will save the planet, apparently. :( :( :(
could always get 5 men on the planet to cover all that :y https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/06/12/now-just-five-men-own-almost-much-wealth-half-worlds-population
You fail to grasp there are not enough well off people to pay for the ever increasing number of spongers.
which part of "Now Just Five Men Own Almost as Much Wealth as Half the World's Population" are you finding it difficult to understand? ???
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They aren't here paying taxes to support the system, ergo are irrelevant...
...for the purpose of this exercise whatever that is ???
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Up the revolution comrades! ::) ;D
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Up the revolution comrades! ::) ;D
Duck fat.
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The new Labour MP for Kensington, in her previous job as a councillor, was on the housing scrutiny committee which oversaw the refurb of the flats.
You can bet your arse she wont carry the can for anything. ::)
Can't beat a good conspiracy's...
I bet rods2 could find a far fetched news article, or other interweb based report to try. As I keep saying and many of us do on here TB for parliament :y
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LZ, why is it one rule for the spongers in life, and another for those who manage to get by without handouts.
And where is that £5500 x 80-90 flats going to come from? Any finance specialist will make sure it doesn't come from the contractor. So, its going to come from the taxes I pay, which will mean that authority will have even less money. And, I repeat, why wouldn't I have been entitled to it? Because I paid for some insurance? Or because I'm not in Manchester/London, so the media don't give a shit?
Maybe I should have rioted around the local council building >:(
Why TB are you assuming all those who lived in these flats are spongers? Many of those have jobs, all be it not well paid ones.
I have known grown up knowing people who live in "social housing" and 99% have jobs. I live in a flat within what is considered "social housing", although many flats are privately leased. I worked all my life until retirement, and now enjoy a healthy company pension reflecting my efforts. Many in my block either works, or like me are retired. If I lost my flat because the whole block was destroyed, would you call me a "sponger" who is not entitled to help, Remember, all of us are just one step away from losing everything and ending up on the street. ;)
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LZ, why is it one rule for the spongers in life, and another for those who manage to get by without handouts.
And where is that £5500 x 80-90 flats going to come from? Any finance specialist will make sure it doesn't come from the contractor. So, its going to come from the taxes I pay, which will mean that authority will have even less money. And, I repeat, why wouldn't I have been entitled to it? Because I paid for some insurance? Or because I'm not in Manchester/London, so the media don't give a shit?
Maybe I should have rioted around the local council building >:(
Oh dear, I feel I may upset you again. It's £5500 per person, not per flat ;D
;D ;D ;D No, I did just round down to that figure as really that is the amount many are questioning. The £500 is being paid now, but that does not seem to be so contentious. :D ;) ;)
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Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.
>:(
Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house? No bloody chance >:( >:( >:(
OK TB, swap places with one of those tenants who have lost everything, had their families put at risk, even losing a member or two. Is £5,000 a lot of money then?
The contents of my flat alone I insure for up to £50K, as £5,000 would only just about cover the cost of furnishing and re-equipping the front room ::) ::)
I feel no anger about what these poor sods get, who were failed miserably by the people who were responsible for the refurbishment, and only feel very sad that they have had to go through such an ordeal. :'( :'( Let the government pay them the money, then reclaim it back from the contractors as they are found guilty of gross negligence and manslaughter.
would you say that if it were found that the council instructed the contractor to use that cladding or that the council in their duty to enforce building control, failed to enforce? it is easy to blame the contractor but the council have the statutory building control duty. what if the contractor proposed those materials and the council agreed as their customer?
my hunch is that a proportion of blame rests with the council - just not sure home much.
I agree entirely, and for me it should be automatic that any official who got this so wrong, with especially perhaps back handers involved, must also be prosecuted. ;)
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Up the revolution comrades! ::) ;D
...........and that is what is always the risk, always has been, in our so called democratic capitalist system, that yes, I fully engaged with during my working life, but actually can be very unjust for those at the bottom of the social scale. BUT, as Churchill once said about democracy solely quoting previous statements on it by others:
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"
But he also stated with his partial non-socialist hat on:
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Whatever, the truth is that this country has been on the brink of revolution over at least the last 200 years, but government legislation and small actions have pushed the threats away. As Brexit and the General Election proved the people want the power that successive governments and politicians have denied them and now are telling them what they really want. This terrible tower block fire, and especially the aftermath with a lack of authorities practical help, has stirred up the feeling yet again that it is one law for the wealthy and the poor have to take whatever is thrown down to them. The people are fed up with lies and poor leadership that gives them nothing and often makes their lives worse.
I am not saying the answer is in violent protest, but the politicians have to recognise small things are really stirring up the people and making them angry.
Going back to the tower block aftermath and this £500 that the families are going to receive immediately; a report yesterday highlighted the case of one family head who went to collect his payment. It was not available, so he was told to come back. When he did come back he was told no cash was left for him to receive his £500, but he should go home and await the payment which would be delivered to him. It was, by expensive courier; a £20 note in an envelop.
Now this story was featured on ITV. I cannot verify the truth of it of course. But it is an example of how the people are being wound up by apparent government, local authority, mis-management and inconsiderate actions. All it takes is one spark to ignite the powder keg of the masses.
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I know everyone loathes the Daily hate Mail, but Littlejohn talks a lot of sense (imo) on this and the general state of affairs at the moment.
I think even TB would like it ! ;D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4619728/RIHCARD-LITTLEJOHN-says-democracy-hanging-thread.html
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More people saw this daily mail than the real one yesterday ;D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40330159
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I know everyone loathes the Daily hate Mail, but Littlejohn talks a lot of sense (imo) on this and the general state of affairs at the moment.
I think even TB would like it ! ;D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4619728/RIHCARD-LITTLEJOHN-says-democracy-hanging-thread.html
You don't have to read that, you can view similar tripe any day, on here. :)
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No doubt we'll be getting articles from Peter Hitchens soon. ;D
Tempered, of course, with quotes from Chairman Mao.
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I notice Littlejohn says that, if an election were held now, Labour could win it. So the tories better sort themselves out, because that really would be a disaster.
Middle of the road is, and always has been, the way forward. If the tories had been given the huge majority expected, they would have turned even nastier, repeating over and over, as Cameron did, that the public wanted this...they voted for it. (No, David, they voted for you because you were not quite as bad as the alternative).
On the other hand, the rag-tag bunch of chancers that passes for the Labour Party would have wrecked the economy once again, whilst trying to dodge Brexit and letting immigration run riot.
A minority conservative government was definitely the best outcome. Sensible policies tempered by the voice of reason.
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No one's mentioned it yet, but last nights BBC 1 Panorama (on iPlayer) London Tower Fire: Britain's Shame is very worth watching.
It explains what many of us on here have been saying. :'( :'(
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Ah, speculation and conjecture served with outrage... Panorama staples from its conception.
I will wait for the findings from the official investigation if that's alright.
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Ah, speculation and conjecture served with outrage... Panorama staples from its conception.
I will wait for the findings from the official investigation if that's alright.
It's a shame, but does seem to be the norm, that these 'documentaries' always have a slant of some kind. Panorama used to be one of the best factual programmes on the telly but, although the facts are still presented, they are made to fit an agenda.
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Why TB are you assuming all those who lived in these flats are spongers? Many of those have jobs, all be it not well paid ones.
Just by listening to them. They clearly think everybody owes them. I have been in so many homes of people with this mentality, in a former life, I can predict what they are going to say. The storming of the council offices afterwards clearly sums it up.
I have known grown up knowing people who live in "social housing" and 99% have jobs. I live in a flat within what is considered "social housing", although many flats are privately leased. I worked all my life until retirement, and now enjoy a healthy company pension reflecting my efforts. Many in my block either works, or like me are retired. If I lost my flat because the whole block was destroyed, would you call me a "sponger" who is not entitled to help, Remember, all of us are just one step away from losing everything and ending up on the street. ;)
Its not social housing - although anyone who has spent time in Milton Keynes (probably the first place to large scale implement the experiment of putting such housing in the more affluent areas in the hope it will lift the poorer families (obviously, the opposite happens, as even an idiot could have predicted)) - its those people who believe they take and not pay back.
LZ, if you lost your flat, I would hope your insurance would immediately find you an alternative, temporary solution within a day or 2 (sometimes these things are impossible the same day). Certainly mine were discussing that option until the fire service declared my house structurally unaffected several hours later. In the meantime, local friends had already offered temporary solutions, as had family a little further afield. Where are these people's friends and family? And don't say "in the same block", as that would imply it was very inbred, with little society integration. But then, I've always said, scum breeds scum (granted scum is too harsh here, but that's the saying).
Maybe I could have saved a bit, probably £10-12 per month, by not having insurance. But I'm bloody glad I did. That's less than 40 fags a month, costwise. Whats more important?
Would you have backed me up if I'd rioted the local council offices because they didn't do anything to help me? I'd hope not, because its a bloody retarded thing to do... ...yet the expected action for these who think life owes them >:(
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No one's mentioned it yet, but last nights BBC 1 Panorama (on iPlayer) London Tower Fire: Britain's Shame is very worth watching.
It explains what many of us on here have been saying. :'( :'(
Panarama, and its ITV equiv, are NEVER worth watching. Its poor quality journalism for the sake of sensationalism, rather than any proper documentary on a given subject. No matter what the subject is.
They are made for the EastEnders style viewers, and designed to be controversial rather than accurate. Much like most of our media really... ...I suspect due to the fact that the majority of the UK public are a level or 2 beyond thick gullible.
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Why TB are you assuming all those who lived in these flats are spongers? Many of those have jobs, all be it not well paid ones.
Just by listening to them. They clearly think everybody owes them. I have been in so many homes of people with this mentality, in a former life, I can predict what they are going to say. The storming of the council offices afterwards clearly sums it up.
I have known grown up knowing people who live in "social housing" and 99% have jobs. I live in a flat within what is considered "social housing", although many flats are privately leased. I worked all my life until retirement, and now enjoy a healthy company pension reflecting my efforts. Many in my block either works, or like me are retired. If I lost my flat because the whole block was destroyed, would you call me a "sponger" who is not entitled to help, Remember, all of us are just one step away from losing everything and ending up on the street. ;)
Its not social housing - although anyone who has spent time in Milton Keynes (probably the first place to large scale implement the experiment of putting such housing in the more affluent areas in the hope it will lift the poorer families (obviously, the opposite happens, as even an idiot could have predicted)) - its those people who believe they take and not pay back.
LZ, if you lost your flat, I would hope your insurance would immediately find you an alternative, temporary solution within a day or 2 (sometimes these things are impossible the same day). Certainly mine were discussing that option until the fire service declared my house structurally unaffected several hours later. In the meantime, local friends had already offered temporary solutions, as had family a little further afield. Where are these people's friends and family? And don't say "in the same block", as that would imply it was very inbred, with little society integration. But then, I've always said, scum breeds scum (granted scum is too harsh here, but that's the saying).
Maybe I could have saved a bit, probably £10-12 per month, by not having insurance. But I'm bloody glad I did. That's less than 40 fags a month, costwise. Whats more important?
Would you have backed me up if I'd rioted the local council offices because they didn't do anything to help me? I'd hope not, because its a bloody retarded thing to do... ...yet the expected action for these who think life owes them >:(
Now if you insured with Direct Line they would take you to a hotel "within the hour"; Vincent Wolf will make sure of it, or he will make an offer they can't refuse! ;D ;D ;)
https://www.youtube.com/user/DirectLineTV
:y
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No one's mentioned it yet, but last nights BBC 1 Panorama (on iPlayer) London Tower Fire: Britain's Shame is very worth watching.
It explains what many of us on here have been saying. :'( :'(
Panarama, and its ITV equiv, are NEVER worth watching. Its poor quality journalism for the sake of sensationalism, rather than any proper documentary on a given subject. No matter what the subject is.
They are made for the EastEnders style viewers, and designed to be controversial rather than accurate. Much like most of our media really... ...I suspect due to the fact that the majority of the UK public are a level or 2 beyond thick gullible.
This site is really down on the BBC! :o :o What TV can ever be believed then?
This programme was never intended to be a "documentary"; it is purely a summary of what is known to date and what certain people "in the know" have so far stated on camera. It is only that, and is not an official inquiry report, it was never dressed up as such. ;)
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Now if you insured with Direct Line they would take you to a hotel "within the hour"; Vincent Wolf will make sure of it, or he will make an offer they can't refuse! ;D ;D ;)
https://www.youtube.com/user/DirectLineTV
:y
They may struggle to find a "local" hotel if, say, your entire block went up. Guess they don't promise local though. But you'd take anything short term. Unless you were one of the mongs being interviewed in West London over the past week.
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Now if you insured with Direct Line they would take you to a hotel "within the hour"; Vincent Wolf will make sure of it, or he will make an offer they can't refuse! ;D ;D ;)
https://www.youtube.com/user/DirectLineTV
:y
They may struggle to find a "local" hotel if, say, your entire block went up. Guess they don't promise local though. But you'd take anything short term. Unless you were one of the mongs being interviewed in West London over the past week.
Ah, but they promise that knowing they do not insure whole blocks of flats :D :D ;)
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This programme was never intended to be a "documentary"; it is purely a vehicle for trying to drive outrage amongst its trailer trash audience
Fixed for accuracy...
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Why TB are you assuming all those who lived in these flats are spongers? Many of those have jobs, all be it not well paid ones.
Just by listening to them. They clearly think everybody owes them. I have been in so many homes of people with this mentality, in a former life, I can predict what they are going to say. The storming of the council offices afterwards clearly sums it up.
I have known grown up knowing people who live in "social housing" and 99% have jobs. I live in a flat within what is considered "social housing", although many flats are privately leased. I worked all my life until retirement, and now enjoy a healthy company pension reflecting my efforts. Many in my block either works, or like me are retired. If I lost my flat because the whole block was destroyed, would you call me a "sponger" who is not entitled to help, Remember, all of us are just one step away from losing everything and ending up on the street. ;)
Its not social housing - although anyone who has spent time in Milton Keynes (probably the first place to large scale implement the experiment of putting such housing in the more affluent areas in the hope it will lift the poorer families (obviously, the opposite happens, as even an idiot could have predicted)) - its those people who believe they take and not pay back.
LZ, if you lost your flat, I would hope your insurance would immediately find you an alternative, temporary solution within a day or 2 (sometimes these things are impossible the same day). Certainly mine were discussing that option until the fire service declared my house structurally unaffected several hours later. In the meantime, local friends had already offered temporary solutions, as had family a little further afield. Where are these people's friends and family? And don't say "in the same block", as that would imply it was very inbred, with little society integration. But then, I've always said, scum breeds scum (granted scum is too harsh here, but that's the saying).
Maybe I could have saved a bit, probably £10-12 per month, by not having insurance. But I'm bloody glad I did. That's less than 40 fags a month, costwise. Whats more important?
Would you have backed me up if I'd rioted the local council offices because they didn't do anything to help me? I'd hope not, because its a bloody retarded thing to do... ...yet the expected action for these who think life owes them >:(
Now if you insured with Direct Line they would take you to a hotel "within the hour"; Vincent Wolf will make sure of it, or he will make an offer they can't refuse! ;D ;D ;)
https://www.youtube.com/user/DirectLineTV
:y
It's Winston Wolf, you deaf old bat ;D
Although I believe Vincent Price may have played a werewolf.
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Clearly not a Tarantino fan ::)
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TB will be pleased to know that there is now a charity record being released to raise funds for the survivors. :y ;D
We will soon be at the point where anyone who was within a mile of the flats that night will be a millionaire.
Worse still the song being used is Bridge over troubled water. It should be a serious breach of international law for anyone but Art Garfunkel to sing that song.
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TB will be pleased to know that there is now a charity record being released to raise funds for the survivors. :y ;D
We will soon be at the point where anyone who was within a mile of the flats that night will be a millionaire.
Worse still the song being used is Bridge over troubled water. It should be a serious breach of international law for anyone but Art Garfunkel to sing that song.
Does anyone else dread waking up in the morning? ;D
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Why TB are you assuming all those who lived in these flats are spongers? Many of those have jobs, all be it not well paid ones.
Just by listening to them. They clearly think everybody owes them. I have been in so many homes of people with this mentality, in a former life, I can predict what they are going to say. The storming of the council offices afterwards clearly sums it up.
I have known grown up knowing people who live in "social housing" and 99% have jobs. I live in a flat within what is considered "social housing", although many flats are privately leased. I worked all my life until retirement, and now enjoy a healthy company pension reflecting my efforts. Many in my block either works, or like me are retired. If I lost my flat because the whole block was destroyed, would you call me a "sponger" who is not entitled to help, Remember, all of us are just one step away from losing everything and ending up on the street. ;)
Its not social housing - although anyone who has spent time in Milton Keynes (probably the first place to large scale implement the experiment of putting such housing in the more affluent areas in the hope it will lift the poorer families (obviously, the opposite happens, as even an idiot could have predicted)) - its those people who believe they take and not pay back.
LZ, if you lost your flat, I would hope your insurance would immediately find you an alternative, temporary solution within a day or 2 (sometimes these things are impossible the same day). Certainly mine were discussing that option until the fire service declared my house structurally unaffected several hours later. In the meantime, local friends had already offered temporary solutions, as had family a little further afield. Where are these people's friends and family? And don't say "in the same block", as that would imply it was very inbred, with little society integration. But then, I've always said, scum breeds scum (granted scum is too harsh here, but that's the saying).
Maybe I could have saved a bit, probably £10-12 per month, by not having insurance. But I'm bloody glad I did. That's less than 40 fags a month, costwise. Whats more important?
Would you have backed me up if I'd rioted the local council offices because they didn't do anything to help me? I'd hope not, because its a bloody retarded thing to do... ...yet the expected action for these who think life owes them >:(
Now if you insured with Direct Line they would take you to a hotel "within the hour"; Vincent Wolf will make sure of it, or he will make an offer they can't refuse! ;D ;D ;)
https://www.youtube.com/user/DirectLineTV
:y
It's Winston Wolf, you deaf old bat ;D
Although I believe Vincent Price may have played a werewolf.
I prefer Vincent Wolf as I say it with a German accent; Vincent Volf ;D ;D ;D ;)
I am sure he says "Vincent"!! Oh dear, my hearing IS getting worse ::) ::) ::) :o ;D ;D
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Meet Winston Wolf (https://youtu.be/dTkg6wq6ma4)
Be fair to say that it's NWS ::)
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Meet Winston Wolf (https://youtu.be/dTkg6wq6ma4)
Be fair to say that it's NWS ::)
That film is classic :y :y
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First head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317
:y :y
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First head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317
:y :y
Just been on the news. He didn't resign, he was 'asked to resign'. A not-very-subtle difference.
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First head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317
:y :y
Just been on the news. He didn't resign, he was 'asked to resign'. A not-very-subtle difference.
Oh yes, the knives are out! ::) ::) ;)
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First head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317
:y :y
Just been on the news. He didn't resign, he was 'asked to resign'. A not-very-subtle difference.
Oh yes, the knives are out! ::) ::) ;)
The chief constable of S Yorks was 'asked to resign' by the crime commissioner. He went to court and they found his sacking was not legal. Compo to come.
Sharon Shoesmith was 'asked to resign', and we all know the out come of that one.
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Probably transpire that he was already planning on going before the fire but had yet to give notice...
Not pushed and didn't jump, but rather a face saving distraction... The real news will be elsewhere, meantime he gets the summer off with his family with no stress and a new job lined up in September. ::)
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First head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317
:y :y
Trial by media. A bloody disgrace (not that I'm sticking up for this weasel, he's civil service, thus is useless, thus needs sacking)
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First head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317
:y :y
Trial by media. A bloody disgrace (not that I'm sticking up for this weasel, he's civil service, thus is useless, thus needs sacking)
Yes, and there will be a lot more of that until the authorities, including the Government get to grips with this whole disgraceful saga :(
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First head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317
:y :y
Trial by media. A bloody disgrace (not that I'm sticking up for this weasel, he's civil service, thus is useless, thus needs sacking)
Yes, and there will be a lot more of that until the authorities, including the Government get to grips with this whole disgraceful saga :(
Accidents happen. Always will.
Yes, its sad when (some) people die.
My beef over this is the belief that the authorities should take care of them, because they felt they were above being insured. And that also gave them the right to riot.
The only disgrace has been the (mainstream, popularist, rage) media. I note the Mosque attack, and the Belgium attack were barely covered because it misfits an agenda, yet Manchester (because its now home to the BBC) and London (because all news outlets are universally just for London people, and definitely fits in with the David/Goliath trailer trash viewers) have been nearly non stop for a month.
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I've swung between anger at the incompetence of the authorities and anger at the demands of the tenents.
However ,there seems to be a whole web of interwoven collective failure emerging that has resulted in the deaths and destruction of the lives of many innocent people and irrespective of creed ,race or social standing they deserve to have their lives reinstated to whatever degree of normality can be achieved.
Every ,and I mean every , person who is part of that web of failure should ,after fair and transparent investigation and if found guilty , be either prosecuted or dismissed for gross misconduct .
Contractors,and the Directors therin, who failed to comply with the then current regulations or displayed any form of negligence should be prosecuted and prevented from tendering for any local authority contracts sine die.
And lastly , the disgraceful and utterly repugnant comments and manoeuvers from Corbyn in trying to politicise the tragedy for personal gain ,should be treated with contempt.
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:y :y to all of that.
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First head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317
:y :y
Trial by media. A bloody disgrace (not that I'm sticking up for this weasel, he's civil service, thus is useless, thus needs sacking)
Yes, and there will be a lot more of that until the authorities, including the Government get to grips with this whole disgraceful saga :(
Accidents happen. Always will.
Yes, its sad when (some) people die.
My beef over this is the belief that the authorities should take care of them, because they felt they were above being insured. And that also gave them the right to riot.
The only disgrace has been the (mainstream, popularist, rage) media. I note the Mosque attack, and the Belgium attack were barely covered because it misfits an agenda, yet Manchester (because its now home to the BBC) and London (because all news outlets are universally just for London people, and definitely fits in with the David/Goliath trailer trash viewers) have been nearly non stop for a month.
Didn't report a policeman being attacked by a Jihadist the same day is the Finsbury park attack, the van driver killed by "asylum seekers" in Calais last week and have been reporting recently how migrants are really scared about Brexit and are going home. Completely failed to mention today that the population has increased by over half a million in the last 12 months.
A national disgrace which needs shutting down.
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Don't think they mentioned the despicable "Day of rage" march either.
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First head to roll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317
:y :y
Trial by media. A bloody disgrace (not that I'm sticking up for this weasel, he's civil service, thus is useless, thus needs sacking)
Yes, and there will be a lot more of that until the authorities, including the Government get to grips with this whole disgraceful saga :(
Accidents happen. Always will.
Yes, its sad when (some) people die.
My beef over this is the belief that the authorities should take care of them, because they felt they were above being insured. And that also gave them the right to riot.
The only disgrace has been the (mainstream, popularist, rage) media. I note the Mosque attack, and the Belgium attack were barely covered because it misfits an agenda, yet Manchester (because its now home to the BBC) and London (because all news outlets are universally just for London people, and definitely fits in with the David/Goliath trailer trash viewers) have been nearly non stop for a month.
Didn't report a policeman being attacked by a Jihadist the same day is the Finsbury park attack, the van driver killed by "asylum seekers" in Calais last week and have been reporting recently how migrants are really scared about Brexit and are going home. Completely failed to mention today that the population has increased by over half a million in the last 12 months.
A national disgrace which needs shutting down.
That's a bit Daily Fail TBF... He was killed because he drove into the back of a stationary lorry ::)
(Admittedly, the lorry was stationary because of a makeshift road block)
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Don't think they mentioned the despicable "Day of Hissy Fit" march either.
FTFY ;D
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It seems that they've pinned the cause of the fire to a faulty fridge freezer and have sent warning to manufacturer of said appliance so that presumably they can make checks on similar goods.
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http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/kensington-resident-tells-shocked-radio-host-if-grenfell-families-moved-in-id-leave-a3572066.html.
The looney lefties are running the nut house.
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http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/kensington-resident-tells-shocked-radio-host-if-grenfell-families-moved-in-id-leave-a3572066.html.
The looney lefties are running the nut house.
The looney lefties? What point are you making?
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I think you'll find that these flats that are being made available were always going to be social housing and the completion of these flats has been speeded up due to the circumstances of Grenfell. It's the case that developers have to earmark a certain percentage of a development (20%?) for social housing due to planning laws. ;)
Otherwise I can't see any developer selling 60 odd flats in Kensington for thousands rather than millions, whatever the circumstances. :-X ::)
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Also worth mentioning shared ownership, is also classed as social housing. Nothing to stop landlords in any flat leasing them to the council, which means safe rent but tad lower than market value.
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I'd imagine that there will be stiff penalties to discourage sub-letting in the tenancy agreements of these flats.... :-X ::) :)
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so you pay a large amount for your new property, as a home/investment, pay a huge amount for council tax, service charges etc, in a desirable address, then they install, persons in the same property for free, pay less for everything.???? is it me.
other way to put it is your work mate doing the same job, gets paid more than you, :o and your ok with that! I don't think so
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I think you'll find that these flats that are being made available were always going to be social housing and the completion of these flats has been speeded up due to the circumstances of Grenfell. It's the case that developers have to earmark a certain percentage of a development (20%?) for social housing due to planning laws. ;)
Otherwise I can't see any developer selling 60 odd flats in Kensington for thousands rather than millions, whatever the circumstances. :-X ::)
Slightly wrong... They were to be "Affordable Housing", not Social Housing. ;)
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I think you'll find that these flats that are being made available were always going to be social housing and the completion of these flats has been speeded up due to the circumstances of Grenfell. It's the case that developers have to earmark a certain percentage of a development (20%?) for social housing due to planning laws. ;)
Otherwise I can't see any developer selling 60 odd flats in Kensington for thousands rather than millions, whatever the circumstances. :-X ::)
Slightly wrong... They were to be "Affordable Housing", not Social Housing. ;)
We've probably read different accounts of the situation, but whichever is correct these flats were certainly 'affordable' for the City of London Corporation! ::)
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so you pay a large amount for your new property, as a home/investment, pay a huge amount for council tax, service charges etc, in a desirable address, then they install, persons in the same property for free, pay less for everything.???? is it me.
other way to put it is your work mate doing the same job, gets paid more than you, :o and your ok with that! I don't think so
But the residents of that rich borough who are wealthy, yes, pay a lot for purchasing their property, then for everything afterwards. However, they have chosen to live there although they could live outside London, and more importantly can sell their property for a massive amount of money with a great profit involved on top of what they originally paid for it.
The residents of Glenville Tower, once rehoused, will never own their own property, unless they win the lottery, and many of them live there as they are employed in service industries to give the rich of the borough what they want, when they want it. That is capitalism for you, and if the "looney lefties" as you put it, in other words Socialists, had their way things would be very different; the rich would have to share their wealth ;)
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I no longer call them the loonie left. The loonies have been replaced by the fascist left. Anyone who dares not to completely agree with them gets the full force of their hatred and denigration from every possible angle.
Anyway - the Libdems are now calling on the Govt to declare a civil emergency ! The whole thing is about proving that one party cares more than the others, and deplying any ludicrous tactic to try and use the situation to pile shame on the Govt. even though it probably had little or nothing to do with them.
Politicians on the left, by politicising every recent tragedy, while the corpses were still warm, have shown them selves to be beneath contempt.
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so you pay a large amount for your new property, as a home/investment, pay a huge amount for council tax, service charges etc, in a desirable address, then they install, persons in the same property for free, pay less for everything.???? is it me.
other way to put it is your work mate doing the same job, gets paid more than you, :o and your ok with that! I don't think so
But the residents of that rich borough who are wealthy, yes, pay a lot for purchasing their property, then for everything afterwards. However, they have chosen to live there although they could live outside London, and more importantly can sell their property for a massive amount of money with a great profit involved on top of what they originally paid for it.
The residents of Glenville Tower, once rehoused, will never own their own property, unless they win the lottery, and many of them live there as they are employed in service industries to give the rich of the borough what they want, when they want it. That is capitalism for you, and if the "looney lefties" as you put it, in other words Socialists, had their way things would be very different; the rich would have to share their wealth ;)
Actually they wouldn't... Some people are more equal than others and don't you forget it.
That's to say, those who contribute nothing, be it cash or labour get nothing but bread, water and a roof.
People who contribute get the same with milk and butter.
People who manage get the same plus meat.
The people who own receive the world.
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You missed out "should", between labour and get. ;)
The fact that we live in a semi socialist state, means that this is not the case. If this Govt. collapses, we may move to a fully fledged Marxist state almost overnight.
We are living in dangerous times. :(
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I no longer call them the loonie left. The loonies have been replaced by the fascist left. Anyone who dares not to completely agree with them gets the full force of their hatred and denigration from every possible angle.
Anyway - the Libdems are now calling on the Govt to declare a civil emergency ! The whole thing is about proving that one party cares more than the others, and deplying any ludicrous tactic to try and use the situation to pile shame on the Govt. even though it probably had little or nothing to do with them.
Politicians on the left, by politicising every recent tragedy, while the corpses were still warm, have shown them selves to be beneath contempt.
I suspect that the Momentum hate mob will quieten down about Grenfell, that we know that the Camden flats were clad in the same or similar flammable material by a Labour council when we had a Labour government. ::)
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I doubt it. They were marching with placards a couple of days ago, which were asking "Mrs May how many kids have you killed today" !
They will never let reality or facts get in the way of their hatred for anyone or anything not fully on board with their agenda.
They will find a way to blame the Tories, and the gullible and stupid will believe them.
They now have full control of the Labour party too, which is why we are living in dangerous times.
A BBC presenter announced yesterday that Corbyn would be addressing the hoards at Glastonbury and added "I think its going to be brilliant".
So much for their legal duty to be impartial and unbiased. ::)
Johnny Depp also got a cheer from the hoards when he alluded to the fact that he might murder President Trump. I can only imagine what would have had happened to someone who said the same thing about Obama a year or two ago. ::)
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Wait and see, he might get stoned...
Literally rather than recreationally.
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The only people there who might stone him if they get the chance are Mr and Mrs Balls and Tom Watson. :D ;D
I would like to see someone from the Beeb stick a microphone in front of Mr and Mrs Balls and ask them when they are finally going to fulfil the promise they made to take a family of Syrian refuges into their home. It was made a couple of years ago, but every time anyone asks Yvette about it she stomps off with the raging hump. ;D
Actually, Rentagob Geldof is probably there too, and he made the same promise, so they could ask him the same question while they are at it, as he went very quiet for a while after that. ::)
I reserve a special loathing for rich lefty hypocrites. :D
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My illustration was how communism worked in reality, rather than what people believe they are entitled to or deserve.
In reality they should get absolutely SFA, but it would be moral suicide for a developed country to actually take that approach.
Should the UK actually become a Marxist state, I will be at the front of the first opportunity out of here :-X
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I would like to be just behind you but I'm probably too old and definitely too skint to leave. :D
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Should the UK actually become a Marxist state, I will be at the front of the first opportunity out of here :-X
My mate has an attractive and sexy Filipina wife who is 20 years younger than him and they are off to live in the Philippines next month. She has 3 sisters and if Comrade Corbyn gets the keys to No.10 I'll seriously think about going there too! :y
Now that's a country with a strong and stable government! ::) ;D
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Oh, please Jeremy, get into number 10. ;D
I'll be at the docks to wave you all off. :)
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Oh, please Jeremy, get into number 10. ;D
I'll be at the docks to wave you all off. :)
We won't bother waving back.... :P
You might get a quick 'So long suckers!' shout though. :)
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Oh, please Jeremy, get into number 10. ;D
I'll be at the docks to wave you all off. :)
We won't bother waving back.... :P
You might get a quick 'So long suckers!' shout though. :)
Surely you'd be waving.. but it'd be the same wave as STEMO's avatar ;D
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The only people there who might stone him if they get the chance are Mr and Mrs Balls and Tom Watson. :D ;D
I would like to see someone from the Beeb stick a microphone in front of Mr and Mrs Balls and ask them when they are finally going to fulfil the promise they made to take a family of Syrian refuges into their home. It was made a couple of years ago, but every time anyone asks Yvette about it she stomps off with the raging hump. ;D
Actually, Rentagob Geldof is probably there too, and he made the same promise, so they could ask him the same question while they are at it, as he went very quiet for a while after that. ::)
I reserve a special loathing for rich lefty hypocrites. :D
The limousine left!
Thinking on it would any well deserving asylum seeker or whatever want to sleep in on of Bob's spare beds?
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So they say the "charity record" and fund has raised £5.millions, so we dived that up between the 80 families "victims", they get £62,500 each, so with this gracious handout from the British public, they could all put a deposit down on there own home, and be happy.
There must be a flaw in this cunning plan..,
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After they've paid the people administering the charities I'm sure there'll be enough left over to buy the families a pint and a packet of crisps.
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Maybe once they've demolished the flats, they could turn the land into a garden of remembrance, and hold vigils there.
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Maybe once they've demolished the flats, they could turn the land into a garden of remembrance, and hold vigils there.
No candles though.
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Maybe once they've demolished the flats, they could turn the land into a garden of remembrance, and hold vigils there.
No candles though.
::)
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Maybe once they've demolished the flats, they could turn the land into a garden of remembrance, and hold vigils there.
No candles though.
Or steps ;)
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And so it inevitably begins. ::)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40449956
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And so it inevitably begins. ::)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40449956
>:( The first of many i fear >:(
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Yep. The amount of money being donated means the survivors will end up with a tidy 5 figure sum each. The con merchants will be like bees around a honey pot. Some of them will probably succeed too.
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Yep. The amount of money being donated means the survivors will end up with a tidy 5 figure sum each. The con merchants will be like bees around a honey pot. Some of them will probably succeed too.
There you go 1st of many, good British citizens already at it
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/30/man-charged-after-pretending-to-lose-family-members-at-grenfell-tower-to-get-cash-and-housing-6745173/
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Yep. The amount of money being donated means the survivors will end up with a tidy 5 figure sum each. The con merchants will be like bees around a honey pot. Some of them will probably succeed too.
There you go 1st of many, good British citizens already at it
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/30/man-charged-after-pretending-to-lose-family-members-at-grenfell-tower-to-get-cash-and-housing-6745173/
But not the first post about it :)
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Scum always floats to the surface >:(
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The cause of the disaster is now pointing at the EU climate change energy policies and targets, where the only practical cladding to provide the levels of insulation required is combustible and the other part that should have been done to compensate for the increased risks of fire spreading through the external flammable cladding was to the fire regulations but the EU Commission and member states didn't bother. :( :( :(
http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86528 (http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86528)
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Well that didn't take to happen, >:( some people will do anything for an easy life, sick >:(
Man who claimed family died in Grenfell Tower fire on fraud charges -
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-30/man-who-claimed-family-died-in-grenfell-tower-fire-charged-with-fraud/
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Well that didn't take to happen, >:( some people will do anything for an easy life, sick >:(
Man who claimed family died in Grenfell Tower fire on fraud charges -
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-30/man-who-claimed-family-died-in-grenfell-tower-fire-charged-with-fraud/
Kinnell, Zirk, that's at least the third time it's been posted about.
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Well that didn't take to happen, >:( some people will do anything for an easy life, sick >:(
Man who claimed family died in Grenfell Tower fire on fraud charges -
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-30/man-who-claimed-family-died-in-grenfell-tower-fire-charged-with-fraud/
Kinnell, Zirk, that's at least the third time it's been posted about.
Well Im only on here part time you know, ::)
Unlike some :P
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Well that didn't take to happen, >:( some people will do anything for an easy life, sick >:(
Man who claimed family died in Grenfell Tower fire on fraud charges -
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-30/man-who-claimed-family-died-in-grenfell-tower-fire-charged-with-fraud/
Kinnell, Zirk, that's at least the third time it's been posted about.
Well Im only on here part time you know, ::)
Unlike some :P
Yes...ok...but it's only 4 or 5 posts above yours...and that was a repeat.....you bastard. ;D
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And it seems the current testing process they are will make anything burn, rather than a realistic test. But the mainstream media is keeping that quiet, as it doesn't fit their rage agenda.
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And it seems the current testing process they are will make anything burn, rather than a realistic test. But the mainstream media is keeping that quiet, as it doesn't fit their rage agenda.
I suspect that even asbestos will burn at those temperatures ::)