Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Sir Tigger KC on 05 July 2017, 16:00:35
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... have announced today that all new models produced after 2019 will be either a hybrid or totally electric! :y
Is this the beginning of the end of mainstream cars powered by the internal combustion engine as we know it? ???
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40505671
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Ha!
I was just on my way over to post exactly this!
The short answer imho is yes, but it will be a very long, drawn-out end.
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Volvo didn't decide anything, Geely did.
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Volvo didn't decide anything, Geely did.
So? ::) :P
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Never hankered after a Volvo , even less so now.
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Never hankered after a Volvo , even less so now.
Yep.....a milk is a milk float.
Volvo being Volvo will probably wrap their latest milk float in a far from pretty frock. I hardly think ugly milk floats is the way forward especially as electric cars have around since the dawn of time.
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Volvo didn't decide anything, Geely did.
So? ::) :P
So...the Chinese are really pushing this technology, partly because their country is choking under smog.
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Volvo didn't decide anything, Geely did.
So? ::) :P
So...the Chinese are really pushing this technology, partly because their country is choking under smog.
Yes and it's a good thing IMO. :y
I think I read somewhere that India plan to ban petrol/diesel cars by 2030 and go all electric. How realistic that is in a country like India I don't know, but the ambition is good! :y
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... have announced today that all new models produced after 2019 will be either a hybrid or totally
Now consider that Volvo's entire range is new and that they have always had long model lives. Volvo already have hybrids, so they're just talking themselves up for all of the fantasists
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... have announced today that all new models produced after 2019 will be either a hybrid or totally
Now consider that Volvo's entire range is new and that they have always had long model lives. Volvo already have hybrids, so they're just talking themselves up for all of the fantasists
Cynic. ::) :P ;D
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... have announced today that all new models produced after 2019 will be either a hybrid or totally
Now consider that Volvo's entire range is new and that they have always had long model lives. Volvo already have hybrids, so they're just talking themselves up for all of the fantasists
Cynic. ::) :P ;D
It is cynical isn't it?
Or did you mean me?
In which case, thank you :y
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This imperitive to drive down CO2 emisions from cars overlooks the fact that globally over 99% of all CO2 emissions are created by us - we breathe!
Whom would you volunteer to stop creating that emission?
I won't say Dianne Abbot, I won't.....I won't........ :-X
Ron.
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I will. :)..........plus Corbyn, McDonell, and many many others. ;D
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This imperitive to drive down CO2 emisions from cars overlooks the fact that globally over 99% of all CO2 emissions are created by us - we breathe!
Whom would you volunteer to stop creating that emission?
I won't say Dianne Abbot, I won't.....I won't........ :-X
Ron.
I think you can stand easy with the cull Ron, it's a lot less than that, about 7% according to this article (http://www.sciencefocus.com/qa/how-much-does-human-breathing-contribute-climate-change). The 99% is I think if you count everything related to us. I.e. Transport, the cows we breed for beef etc etc.
Whether it's a marketing stunt or not, it's a step in the right direction. Like it or not, the human population is only increasing and digging stuff up and burning it isn't a sustainable solution to personal transport.
In the same way we moved from horses to cars/trucks, clearly we'll move on from battery electric cars to some other model. However I think the next decade or three will see ICEs die off for mainstream transportation, then 20-30yrs later something else will surpass them. It's the way of things.
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Jimmy, I challenge your figures: but even if you are somewhere near right (you ain't!), cars, trains, planes and all the rest of the emitters contribute less than 1% of CO2 emissions - all the rest is political hype to make us feel guilty and cough up tax monies to assuage that guilt.
Additionally, we NEED CO2 for our greenery to live and trade it for oxygen.
The cull goes on..... :P
Ron.
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It's not all about CO2 though as the internal combustion engine emits other toxins. Nitrogen, Carbon Monoxide, Nitrogen Oxide, Sulfer Dioxide, Hydro Carbons and Particulate Matter (soot). ::) I challenge anyone who dosn't think any of this matters to attach a hose to your exhaust, put it through the window, sit in the car, start the engine and see how long you last! :-X ::) ;D
Alternatively the next time you are sat in a city traffic jam or queue at the lights, think about all the toxins being spewed out by the hundreds of vehicles, as you watch a young mother walk by with her baby in a buggy at exhaust pipe level.... :(
Stop/Start and Hybrids are a good start in reducing this sort of pollution and Nick W may well be right that Volvo's announcement is a cynical marketing ploy, but it is a statement of intent and a step in the right direction IMHO! :)
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When electric vehicles come down in price, as they surely will, and the range gets a bit better, I will surely have one.
BUT....it will have to come in estate guise, or it will be of no use to me.
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How will the government raid our wallets without VAT and Excise Duty on fuel when that happens - after all, it will be exactly what they CLAIM that they want - lower "pollution"?
Ron.
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How will the government raid our wallets without VAT and Excise Duty on fuel when that happens - after all, it will be exactly what they CLAIM that they want - lower "pollution"?
Ron.
I'm sure there are people with large brains working on that right now, Ron.
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How will the government raid our wallets without VAT and Excise Duty on fuel when that happens - after all, it will be exactly what they CLAIM that they want - lower "pollution"?
Ron.
I'm sure there are people with large brains working on that right now, Ron.
Getting my crystal ball out Ron, they will introduce a milage levy. All vehicles will be connected to the internet and HMRC will know exactly how many miles you have done every year and will deduct the tax from your bank account. :)
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How will the government raid our wallets without VAT and Excise Duty on fuel when that happens - after all, it will be exactly what they CLAIM that they want - lower "pollution"?
Ron.
I'm sure there are people with large brains working on that right now, Ron.
Getting my crystal ball out Ron, they will introduce a milage levy. All vehicles will be connected to the internet and HMRC will know exactly how many miles you have done every year and will deduct the tax from your bank account. :)
That sounds simple enough, can't wait. ;D
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Jimmy, I challenge your figures: but even if you are somewhere near right (you ain't!)
Challenge away Ron. After all, a forum is about exchanging views and information, but please show your working :y
https://micpohling.wordpress.com/2007/03/27/math-how-much-co2-is-emitted-by-human-on-earth-annually/ (https://micpohling.wordpress.com/2007/03/27/math-how-much-co2-is-emitted-by-human-on-earth-annually/)
This blog walks through the total CO2 per human based on 2 scenarios and comes up with a figure of either 2.168 x 10^9 tonnes/year or 1.362 x 10^9 tonnes/year. Granted, a huge difference depensing on how you calculate it. Both calculations are done from first principles so not really open to politicising. That compares to 24.136 x 10^9 tonnes per year through burning fossils. Or somewhere between 5.6% and 8.9%. Add in all the other sources of CO2 (animals, especially those bred for food), volcanic activity etc etc and the figure from human breathing is likely to be well below 5%, so actually less than I had asserted.
I don't think a figure as high as you claim (over 95%) bears up to even casual scrutiny. Take food animals for a start, the UN estimates that there are 19 billion chickens in the world (or about 2.4 for every human), similarly, there are 1.5 billion cows (UN again), or about 0.2 for every human. So how could they contribute a tiny fraction (less than 1% according to your estimate) of the CO2 compared to the amount we do?
The Institute of Mechanical Engineers reckoned that transport accounts for about 25% of all the UK's co2 emissions and that doesn't include foreign-owned airlines (who's CO2 is attributed to their "home" country). This seems about on par with the USA's Environmental Protection Agency figure of 28% for the US (fewer foreign-owned airlines operating in the US per mile flown).
How will the government raid our wallets without VAT and Excise Duty on fuel when that happens - after all, it will be exactly what they CLAIM that they want - lower "pollution"?
Ron.
Ah! now that's an easy one. Charge pence per mile driven, with different charges depending on class of vehicle. All they have to do is pass a black-box law and its done. Sure, it might be against our human rights to have the government spying on us, but that won't be an issue in a couple of years now will it ;)
Stop/Start and Hybrids are a good start in reducing this sort of pollution and Nick W may well be right that Volvo's announcement is a cynical marketing ploy, but it is a statement of intent and a step in the right direction IMHO!
This is bang on the money imo. I fervently hope that electric (or later hydrogen) cars will do for petrol motors what the car did for the horse. Electrics will take over as the day-to-day beasts of burden and the petrol cars will be things of pleasure, to be used as a hobby and enjoyed. I really enjoy driving, I've been on track days, drove that M140i for 250 miles through wales on a whim, but I would welcome an electric self-driving car to take me along my M42, M6 and M1 commute each day, in silent relaxed comfort while I read a book, watched a film or caught up on some email. I would defy anyone to derive pleasure from that kind of driving ;D.
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I don't think a figure as high as you claim (over 95%) bears up to even casual scrutiny. Take food animals for a start, the UN estimates that there are 19 billion chickens in the world (or about 2.4 for every human), similarly, there are 1.5 billion cows (UN again), or about 0.2 for every human. So how could they contribute a tiny fraction (less than 1% according to your estimate) of the CO2 compared to the amount we do?
plus cows in particular fart a lot of methane. methane is about 32 times more powerful a global warming gas than CO2
nitrous oxide N2O by the way is nearly 300 times more powerful at global warming than CO2 also it strips out ozone protection like CFCs used to before they were restricted. 30% of it comes from human activity, mostly farming.
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Thanks Jimmy. At least you know it was a friendly challenge, not a spiteful one.
Oh, MY figures? They came from the Daily Telegraph and they are NEVER wrong! ::)
Ron.
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Did i read today that France are banning internal combustion engines from 2040, or was i dreaming? :-\
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Nope, not dreaming. But it's sales rather than Annan. Go would take another 15yrs ish to really start to weed them out.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/06/france-ban-petrol-diesel-cars-2040-emmanuel-macron-volvo (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/06/france-ban-petrol-diesel-cars-2040-emmanuel-macron-volvo)
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What about commercial vehicles, how do they fit in this new era?
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Bigger electric motors and bigger batteries. :) I've never driven an electric car but from what I've read they have terrific torque! :y
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No I've not driven one yet either. I'm itching to drive one of those Tesla's.
We keep talking about electric cars at home..... maybe in the near future :y
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I suspect hybrid trucks will make an appearance before long with the electric motor doing the urban work and an internal combustion engine of some sort for motorway/highway work. :y
Trucks which run on Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) are common in other countries so maybe future trucks will be hybrid CNG/Electric? :-\ Solar panels on the roof of the trailer to charge the batteries maybe? :)
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"Solar panels on the roof of the trailer to charge the batteries maybe?"
...not on a fuel tanker :'( 8)
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"Solar panels on the roof of the trailer to charge the batteries maybe?"
...not on a fuel tanker :'( 8)
Maybe fuel tankers will become obsolete.... ;) :y
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They probably will - volumes are already on the decrease, fuel logistics companies are not taking any new people on... :(
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Not exactly new news (2012 ::)), and a triaxle curtainsider might slow it down a touch, but always worth a watch...
https://youtu.be/1cVtzt_bbhM 8)
It has been suggested elsewhere that a supercharged big block Chevy V8 running lpg/cng might be a green alternative to diesel power... torque and output being similar...
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When I said that hybrid trucks will make an appearance, I meant they'll become commonplace in the same way hybrid cars are becoming more and more common. ;)
I was tinkering with my car on drive the other day and heard a funny whirring noise, looked up and there was a Mitsubishi PHEV cruising by! :y
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When I said that hybrid trucks will make an appearance, I meant they'll become commonplace in the same way hybrid cars are becoming more and more common. ;)
I was tinkering with my car on drive the other day and heard a funny whirring noise, looked up and there was a Mitsubishi PHEV cruising by! :y
Mitsubiushi and Izuzu both do hybrid 7.5t, last one I drove was a 13 plate ;)
The future is coming... quietly.
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Ignorant question: in totally electric vehicles, how do you keep warm in winter, or even cool in summer?
Ron.
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Oh, I've got it - a small petrol engine in the boot to run the heater! :y 8) ;D
Ron.
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Sensible answer... heater element supplemented by the drive motor coolant circuit via a heat exchanger, plus a separate airconditioning circuit powered by an electric compressor. Again not new tech, just a fresh approach to running it :y
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There's also a company now making heat batteries, primary use is in homes, solar during the day is stored and used to provide heating/hot water at night. A unit about the size of a briefcase holds around 1.5kwh heat (iirc). They work on the same(ish) principle as those chemical gel hand warmers
Advantage with these is reduced cost, and complexity over li-ion, plus they've been tested to 50,000 cycles and don't degrade. According to their marketing blurb, they have interest from car manufacturers to run the heaters from these. So your electric car would charge its main battery and the heat battery at the same time.
Quite a clever idea really.
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Sensible answer... heater element supplemented by the drive motor coolant circuit via a heat exchanger, plus a separate airconditioning circuit powered by an electric compressor. Again not new tech, just a fresh approach to running it :y
Or in the case of the little electric deathtrap looking things in Norway (that were popular a decade ago) - a kerosene heater for winter, and windows for summer! ;D