Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 13 August 2017, 13:00:27
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Yes, this is the same car that Jonny returned to me in exchange for his 2.2 saloon, in which he will take his in-laws touring in Ireland in 7 days time, telling me the estate was going perfectly apart from a low beam warning light. After changing the noisy diff I have been driving it around, but find the steering more imprecise than my other 2.5 estate. I have checked track rods OK - checked central track rod - looks OK - tyres look OK, then I considered wishbones. I bought the car needing wishbones, and fitted a pair of ATE wishbones on purchase. That was 3 years and 27000 miles ago. Since then it has sailed through MOT tests, but there is a fair bit of play in the front bushes, more LHS than RHS. I recall DocG reckoning ATE wishbones are good for 20000 miles, I suspect mine are due for a change.
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Sounds like it. Worth polybushing the front bushes? :-\
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Check for play in steering idler, all TREs and front wishbone bushes. Also look for inconsistent wear on tyres.
After than, take it for a full geometry setup.
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Sounds like it. Worth polybushing the front bushes? :-\
Trouble is rear bushes won't be far behind...
That's a reasonable life from £80 bits... Buy some more :y
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Thanks for advice. I have spare wishbones, I bought stock before I learned that I could turn them over and turn right into left. I think they will see me out.
I shall change them when I feel better. I have Jeremy Clarkson's pneumonia, as described in today's Sunday Times. It is debilitating, but I am sure will pass. Reading his article, he had not received any useful treatment, just lots of expensive diagnosis. The only medication he received was Fluimucil Forte, which anyone can buy over the counter.
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2 months later, my pneumonia has passed, and I have changed wishbones, track rods, drop links, and central track rod, and it has done not a blind bit of good. Steering is still imprecise, unlike my other 2.5 estate, which is a year older and similar mileage (175K). What else might it be? Could it be in the steering box, or the rear suspension?
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Steering idler OK?
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Might be worth trying this... wheels dead straight bit of masking tape in the middle of the steering wheel (12 o'clock) then with the engine running very gently move the steering wheel whist watching the front wheels VERY CAREFULLY .. you are watching until the wheels JUST move. mark the steering wheel again at 12 o'clock, repeat in the other direction ... you now have 2 marks on the steering wheel ..if the distance between the two outer marks is more than 75 mm you have "excess play" scope for failure under MOT 2.2 A.1.
2.2 Steering System 2.2 - page 1
Information
Method of Inspection
Reason for Rejection
This inspection applies to all types of steering mechanism.
If power steering is fitted, the engine must be running for all checks requiring steering movement.
If ATL or OPTL approved, references to the assistant’s role in this section do not apply, although an NT may use an assistant to aid with the inspection of components if the NT considers it necessary.
For tricycles and quadricycles with motorcycle derived steering/suspension systems, refer to Section 9.2.
A. Free Play
1.
With the road wheels on the ground pointing straight ahead, lightly turn the steering wheel left and right as far as possible without moving the road wheel.
Check the amount of free play at the circumference of the steering wheel.
Note: Play due to wear or maladjustment must not be confused with apparent play due to the construction of the mechanism, such as caused by the deflection of flexible joints or spring compression in external power steering systems.
Note: The steering wheel free play limit is a general rule for standard diameter steering wheels, (380mm). Lower or higher limits should be set with larger or smaller diameter steering wheels.
1.
A point on the rim of the steering wheel moves, without the road wheels moving, for more than:
a.
75mm for non rack and pinion
b.
13mm for rack and pinion steering.
Note: Where there are several joints between the steering wheel and the rack, movement up to 48mm on a 380mm diameter wheel may be accepted.
It is possible to adjust this a little .. on the steering box is a screw with a locknut, release the locknut and adjust the screw a TINY amount, retighten the locknut then repeat the above check until the play is about 70 mm. If you take it less than that then the self centering and "feel" of the steering will be completely screwed up .. you are adjusting something that VX say should not be adjusted ! do NOT over do it..tiny bits at a time.
Got mine through the MOT and made the steering very much more positive ... I did try with the play at 60mm, car was almost undriveable, no self centering and the smallest steering wheel input the car shot off track !!
HTH :)
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Steering idler OK?
Yes
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Have you had it aligned yet?
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Might be worth trying this... wheels dead straight bit of masking tape in the middle of the steering wheel (12 o'clock) then with the engine running very gently move the steering wheel whist watching the front wheels VERY CAREFULLY .. you are watching until the wheels JUST move. mark the steering wheel again at 12 o'clock, repeat in the other direction ... you now have 2 marks on the steering wheel ..if the distance between the two outer marks is more than 75 mm you have "excess play" scope for failure under MOT 2.2 A.1.
2.2 Steering System 2.2 - page 1
Information
Method of Inspection
Reason for Rejection
This inspection applies to all types of steering mechanism.
If power steering is fitted, the engine must be running for all checks requiring steering movement.
If ATL or OPTL approved, references to the assistant’s role in this section do not apply, although an NT may use an assistant to aid with the inspection of components if the NT considers it necessary.
For tricycles and quadricycles with motorcycle derived steering/suspension systems, refer to Section 9.2.
A. Free Play
1.
With the road wheels on the ground pointing straight ahead, lightly turn the steering wheel left and right as far as possible without moving the road wheel.
Check the amount of free play at the circumference of the steering wheel.
Note: Play due to wear or maladjustment must not be confused with apparent play due to the construction of the mechanism, such as caused by the deflection of flexible joints or spring compression in external power steering systems.
Note: The steering wheel free play limit is a general rule for standard diameter steering wheels, (380mm). Lower or higher limits should be set with larger or smaller diameter steering wheels.
1.
A point on the rim of the steering wheel moves, without the road wheels moving, for more than:
a.
75mm for non rack and pinion
b.
13mm for rack and pinion steering.
Note: Where there are several joints between the steering wheel and the rack, movement up to 48mm on a 380mm diameter wheel may be accepted.
It is possible to adjust this a little .. on the steering box is a screw with a locknut, release the locknut and adjust the screw a TINY amount, retighten the locknut then repeat the above check until the play is about 70 mm. If you take it less than that then the self centering and "feel" of the steering will be completely screwed up .. you are adjusting something that VX say should not be adjusted ! do NOT over do it..tiny bits at a time.
Got mine through the MOT and made the steering very much more positive ... I did try with the play at 60mm, car was almost undriveable, no self centering and the smallest steering wheel input the car shot off track !!
HTH :)
Thanks. Will investigate.
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Have you had it aligned yet?
I have not had steering alignment checked by a garage for years. After any change of steering component I reset the alignment by setting front wheels parallel to rear with front wheels supported at outer ends of wishbones and steering wheel centred. I appreciate this method is imperfect, but has worked for years on 6 Omegas without any others displaying wander.
Without this realignment steering is awful after after component change, no matter how carefully I count track rod adjuster turns.
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Might be worth trying this... wheels dead straight bit of masking tape in the middle of the steering wheel (12 o'clock) then with the engine running very gently move the steering wheel whist watching the front wheels VERY CAREFULLY .. you are watching until the wheels JUST move. mark the steering wheel again at 12 o'clock, repeat in the other direction ... you now have 2 marks on the steering wheel ..if the distance between the two outer marks is more than 75 mm you have "excess play" scope for failure under MOT 2.2 A.1.
2.2 Steering System 2.2 - page 1
Information
Method of Inspection
Reason for Rejection
This inspection applies to all types of steering mechanism.
If power steering is fitted, the engine must be running for all checks requiring steering movement.
If ATL or OPTL approved, references to the assistant’s role in this section do not apply, although an NT may use an assistant to aid with the inspection of components if the NT considers it necessary.
For tricycles and quadricycles with motorcycle derived steering/suspension systems, refer to Section 9.2.
A. Free Play
1.
With the road wheels on the ground pointing straight ahead, lightly turn the steering wheel left and right as far as possible without moving the road wheel.
Check the amount of free play at the circumference of the steering wheel.
Note: Play due to wear or maladjustment must not be confused with apparent play due to the construction of the mechanism, such as caused by the deflection of flexible joints or spring compression in external power steering systems.
Note: The steering wheel free play limit is a general rule for standard diameter steering wheels, (380mm). Lower or higher limits should be set with larger or smaller diameter steering wheels.
1.
A point on the rim of the steering wheel moves, without the road wheels moving, for more than:
a.
75mm for non rack and pinion
b.
13mm for rack and pinion steering.
Note: Where there are several joints between the steering wheel and the rack, movement up to 48mm on a 380mm diameter wheel may be accepted.
It is possible to adjust this a little .. on the steering box is a screw with a locknut, release the locknut and adjust the screw a TINY amount, retighten the locknut then repeat the above check until the play is about 70 mm. If you take it less than that then the self centering and "feel" of the steering will be completely screwed up .. you are adjusting something that VX say should not be adjusted ! do NOT over do it..tiny bits at a time.
Got mine through the MOT and made the steering very much more positive ... I did try with the play at 60mm, car was almost undriveable, no self centering and the smallest steering wheel input the car shot off track !!
HTH :)
Thanks. Will investigate.
Just checked. Gap seems to within the 70mm, so I have left it alone. I see the adjustment screw at the top of the steering box, internal torx head with a hexagon locknut.Yet there is some play somewhere. Curiouser and curiouser.
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I think the steering on the Omega is of the recirculating ball type. I imagine the adjustment screw takes up any slack in the threads.
Do you think any harm would be done if I tightened the screw ten degrees, and discovered if the steering still self centred?
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I think the steering on the Omega is of the recirculating ball type. I imagine the adjustment screw takes up any slack in the threads.
Do you think any harm would be done if I tightened the screw ten degrees, and discovered if the steering still self centred?
Methinks you need someone more knowledgeable than I for that ... Mr MarkDTM where are you ???
I would be concerned at overdoing it, both short term drive-ability, and long term potential damage, last thing you want is the steering failing at a critical time ..... :(
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I think the steering on the Omega is of the recirculating ball type. I imagine the adjustment screw takes up any slack in the threads.
Do you think any harm would be done if I tightened the screw ten degrees, and discovered if the steering still self centred?
Tread very carefully... Chrisgixer managed to completely bollax a slightly worn box iirc
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I think the steering on the Omega is of the recirculating ball type. I imagine the adjustment screw takes up any slack in the threads.
Do you think any harm would be done if I tightened the screw ten degrees, and discovered if the steering still self centred?
Tread very carefully...
Edited to correct my memory :-[
I had to replace one, as it was stiff one way. I later took it apart, nothing I could see wrong with it. But then, I’m no expert. All bearings round, gears untouched. The gears are clinically ground so tightening the torx pulls the entire shaft up and meshes the gears tighter. The gears are cast iron and massive. (I’m sure gears is not the correct term, but both the shafts has big teeth on them)
As I recall the car always had the fault but was not a priority, but it did get worse with time. I presumed s blocked valve or oil way, as there are more than one might think.
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I think the steering on the Omega is of the recirculating ball type. I imagine the adjustment screw takes up any slack in the threads.
Do you think any harm would be done if I tightened the screw ten degrees, and discovered if the steering still self centred?
Tread very carefully...
Edited to correct my memory :-[
I had to replace one, as it was stiff one way. I later took it apart, nothing I could see wrong with it. But then, I’m no expert. All bearings round, gears untouched. The gears are clinically ground so tightening the torx pulls the entire shaft up and meshes the gears tighter. The gears are cast iron and massive. (I’m sure gears is not the correct term, but both the shafts has big teeth on them)
As I recall the car always had the fault but was not a priority, but it did get worse with time. I presumed s blocked valve or oil way, as there are more than one might think.
Thanks for the warning; I will leave it alone. The fault is trivial, just annoying. Having changed everything obvious, I now suspect the steering box. Are they easily changed? If so, when I scrap a V6 I will keep the box and swop it.
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Four bolts, one nut and a couple of unions... what could possibly go wrong :-X
Of course, having the car set up properly to begin with may well solve the issue...