Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Andy A on 25 July 2018, 10:49:45
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I need to renew the rear discs. They are the solid disc type on 2.2 2003.
Will any cheap discs do for the back or is it recommended to get a decent brand name?
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get a 50% flash discount code off EuroCarParts, they run quite often. Just get any brand on the back, 2.2 does not have traction control and won't do much on the rears. So any discs should do :y
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Have a rummage on ebay and buy the cheapest Apec/Ate/Brembo ones you find that don't come from Carpartssaver/carparts4less/ECP.
Then buy the genuine rear pads being sold for £15 and get busy :y
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get a 50% flash discount code off EuroCarParts, they run quite often. Just get any brand on the back, 2.2 does not have traction control and won't do much on the rears. So any discs should do :y
Just seen code come in today, "JULY70" gets 53% off on brakes :y
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Nope, it brings them back down to retail ::)
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Just used the "JULY70" for the rear discs, shoes and handbrake cable Tunnie. Nice saving. :y
Genuine pads it is then Al. :y
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Just used the "JULY70" for the rear discs, shoes and handbrake cable Tunnie. Accurate price. :y
Genuine pads it is then Al. :y
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Just checked front discs for the BMW.. £270 each from ECP for ATE discs, £270 for the pair after discount.
£160 the pair from BMW direct. ;D
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I rest my case... ::)
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I have 2 part numbers for the front disc set kit. 13441811 and 93175466. What one is correct for 2.2 2003?
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Only 93175466 is a disc/pad set...
Tother is a clip.
Incidentally, there's a NOS set on ebay for less than £40... Search by the part number ;)
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just looked up a full Brembo set of Discs pads and shoes with that discount code. £157.03, must admit am tempted.
::)
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How on earth do I get the shoes mechanism back in?
Does the cast block that the mechanism goes through have to come out in order to refit it?
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How on earth do I get the shoes mechanism back in?
Does the cast block that the mechanism goes through have to come out in order to refit it?
Screwdriver to pull down spring clip, or pliers. Can’t remember what I used, they are fiddly.
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just looked up a full Brembo set of Discs pads and shoes with that discount code. £157.03, must admit am tempted.
::)
It will be the shit Brembo stuff. Not the decent stuff. Its just a cheap, nasty, aftermarket replacement/
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How on earth do I get the shoes mechanism back in?
Does the cast block that the mechanism goes through have to come out in order to refit it?
Are we talking handbrake shoes? Are you doing a major brake overhaul?
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How on earth do I get the shoes mechanism back in?
Does the cast block that the mechanism goes through have to come out in order to refit it?
Are we talking handbrake shoes? Are you doing a major brake overhaul?
Yes the mechanism for the shoes that connects to the handbrake cable behind the hub. Took it out to clean and grease and can't get it back in.
Yes new discs, shoes, pads and handbrake cable.
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How on earth do I get the shoes mechanism back in?
Does the cast block that the mechanism goes through have to come out in order to refit it?
Are we talking handbrake shoes? Are you doing a major brake overhaul?
Yes the mechanism for the shoes that connects to the handbrake cable behind the hub. Took it out to clean and grease and can't get it back in.
Yes new discs, shoes, pads and handbrake cable.
Good luck! The handbrake can be hours of fun. As Doc says, you will have to learn how the scissors arrangement - actuator - works, then push the cable lever in from the back and assemble it with the other lever and the spring clip, then locate the shoe ends in the expandable lever ends, then insert the tension spring.
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Can't wait. Have enough trouble getting up and down off the floor as it is. :'( ECP say they don't have any rear discs in stock so it will be a few days wait. Give me time to put the new handbrake cable in ready. :y
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(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewjru9bw8c5zadq/scissors.jpg?dl=1)
As said, hours of fun. Ingenious bit of kit, giving a 4:1 mechanical advantage. I have known the pin come loose, but it still worked, and I have left out the spring and it still worked. After 10 years it rusts, gets stiff and you loose the mechanical advantage, but it still functions after a fashion. Eventually it rusts solid, the cable breaks and the cable slips through the anchor coil and repairs are needed, but, shucks, cars are not designed to last 10 years.
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(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewjru9bw8c5zadq/scissors.jpg?dl=1)
As said, hours of fun. Ingenious bit of kit, giving a 4:1 mechanical advantage. I have known the pin come loose, but it still worked, and I have left out the spring and it still worked. After 10 years it rusts, gets stiff and you loose the mechanical advantage, but it still functions after a fashion. Eventually it rusts solid, the cable breaks and the cable slips through the anchor coil and repairs are needed, but, shucks, cars are not designed to last 10 years.
That's the one Terry. Pins are lose in both of mine so should be fun in getting it back in unless I try and fix it in place with some supper glue first. Not sure that would work though.
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Same design on the Jag rear end on the kit car, and I didn't find that bit hard to put together.. getting the retaining clips on the pins, however, is hours of fun for all the family! ;D
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(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewjru9bw8c5zadq/scissors.jpg?dl=1)
As said, hours of fun. Ingenious bit of kit, giving a 4:1 mechanical advantage. I have known the pin come loose, but it still worked, and I have left out the spring and it still worked. After 10 years it rusts, gets stiff and you loose the mechanical advantage, but it still functions after a fashion. Eventually it rusts solid, the cable breaks and the cable slips through the anchor coil and repairs are needed, but, shucks, cars are not designed to last 10 years.
Is there a part number for the mechanism?
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90111317 for the 'swan neck' and
3432340 / 90496947 for the other bit. :y
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90111317 for the 'swan neck' and
3432340 / 90496947 for the other bit. :y
Thanks for the part numbers.
Am I correct that the pin should be solidly/permanently fixed to the swan part?
Both of mine have an oval hole where the pins go and the pins are very lose and won't stay in at all.
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If they're like the Jag (and they look identical) then the pin is a slide fit - it should be a close but free fit in the (round!) hole.
Took me ages to find one of mine on the floor.. ;D
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If they're like the Jag (and they look identical) then the pin is a slide fit - it should be a close but free fit in the (round!) hole.
Took me ages to find one of mine on the floor.. ;D
Its the same one in the pic above.
Thanks
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Yes, the pin is 'separate' but 'part of' as said above. (I have a spare one in pieces at present, so I happen to know)
PS You're welcome on the part numbers :)
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In over 20 years, I never ever saw the hand brake shoes on any of my Senators or Omega ::)
I put it down to infrequent use ::) ;)
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In over 20 years, I never ever saw the hand brake shoes on any of my Senators or Omega ::)
I put it down to infrequent use ::) ;)
The bloke at my local garage advised me to only half pull the handbrake up while parked on the drive to save stretching the handbrake cable because I only use the car local, most of the time and not very often these days. I think this might of been my downfall and caused it all to seize up. Not fully using the full motion of the handbrake. :-\
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In over 20 years, I never ever saw the hand brake shoes on any of my Senators or Omega ::)
I put it down to infrequent use ::) ;)
You would see them when you change your rear discs.
They only do any serious retardation during MOT tests or in an emergency. The reason we strip them down is the actuator, depicted above, rusts and seizes up, destroying the 4:1 mechanical advantage.
The forum guide recommends stripping the handbrake down every 2 years; I doubt many members do that. Haynes says you need to remove the hub and bearing to replace the brake shoes; forum members don't do that either.
I do it when the handbrake needs a mighty heave to hold the car on a hill; that's a sure sign the actuator has seized. It's not a trivial job, but one I find most satisfying.
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In over 20 years, I never ever saw the hand brake shoes on any of my Senators or Omega ::)
I put it down to infrequent use ::) ;)
You would see them when you change your rear discs.
They only do any serious retardation during MOT tests or in an emergency. The reason we strip them down is the actuator, depicted above, rusts and seizes up, destroying the 4:1 mechanical advantage.
The forum guide recommends stripping the handbrake down every 2 years; I doubt many members do that. Haynes says you need to remove the hub and bearing to replace the brake shoes; forum members don't do that either.
I do it when the handbrake needs a mighty heave to hold the car on a hill; that's a sure sign the actuator has seized. It's not a trivial job, but one I find most satisfying.
That's exactly what mine has been doing and getting worse over time.
Thanks for the info Terry :y
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In over 20 years, I never ever saw the hand brake shoes on any of my Senators or Omega ::)
I put it down to infrequent use ::) ;)
You would see them when you change your rear discs.
They only do any serious retardation during MOT tests or in an emergency. The reason we strip them down is the actuator, depicted above, rusts and seizes up, destroying the 4:1 mechanical advantage.
The forum guide recommends stripping the handbrake down every 2 years; I doubt many members do that. Haynes says you need to remove the hub and bearing to replace the brake shoes; forum members don't do that either.
I do it when the handbrake needs a mighty heave to hold the car on a hill; that's a sure sign the actuator has seized. It's not a trivial job, but one I find most satisfying.
I never had need to change rear discs ;) ;)
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Clearly never had a later V6 then... ::)
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Am I correct that the pin should be solidly/permanently fixed to the swan part?
Both of mine have an oval hole where the pins go and the pins are very lose and won't stay in at all.
As has been mentioned, the pin is a separate part, and not a particularly tight fit.
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Clearly never had a later V6 then... ::)
Of all the Omegas I've had, I've one ever changed rear discs once, and that was due to a handbrake issue rather than a wear issue.
Although all but TBE have been non vented.
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Out of the 3 Senator As 2 Senator Bs 1 Monza a PFL Omega and the present Fl Omega the only handbrake problem I've had was with the PFL Omega which I took a rear disc off[I was selling it to someone who wanted the interior for his Astra project] and found the backplate had rotted where the hold down pins were held.I believe MFL/FL went to the pins going through the back plate from the inboard side and held the shoes by spring/washer as most cars I've owned did,where the PFL cars the pins went through the shoes and were held by a shaped hole in the backplate like the Senator/Monzas did.
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Am I correct that the pin should be solidly/permanently fixed to the swan part?
Both of mine have an oval hole where the pins go and the pins are very lose and won't stay in at all.
As has been mentioned, the pin is a separate part, and not a particularly tight fit.
Which is why I ended up chasing one around the garage floor.. gave up looking for it, used one of my spares (I've got 2 or 3 full brake sets for the Jag - calipers, discs etc ;D XJ40, XJ40-V12 and X305!), then promptly found the original. The original is still stuck to the magnetic tool rail so I can't lose it again ;D
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Clearly never had a later V6 then... ::)
Correct. I wanted my Omega to look like an Omega ..... not an Astra G ::) ::)
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Have changed lots of omega handbrakes. Basically every 2 years which is the control period in norway. Salt on the roads dont help. But both my omegas are 94-95 models. The new one is 97. And i see that the 97 has the brakeshoe pins the other way. With a small disc on the outside. The 94-95 omegas had the pins with the «tip» locked in the brakeshield with a 90 degree turn of the pin. Only a tiny amount of rust in the brakeshield and the pins let go and everything comes loose:p dont know how the 97 pins sat in the shield since when i changed Brakes on that handbrake seemed ok and i didnt want to mess with it. But obviously the arrangement was changed in 96-97 sometimes and the newer pins seem better.
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Got a Saab 900 Shackle Kit ordered. Couldn't find a VX set.
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:-X
just looked up a full Brembo set of Discs pads and shoes with that discount code. £157.03, must admit am tempted.
::)
It will be the shit Brembo stuff. Not the decent stuff. Its just a cheap, nasty, aftermarket replacement/
Not recommended then . . . . .
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Is there a tool for getting the spring and cap back onto the pins?
Tried the method with ring spanner in the tut but they will not go back onto the pins and lock onto the collar.
This thing is driving me nuts.
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Is there a tool for getting the spring and cap back onto the pins?
Tried the method with ring spanner in the tut but they will not go back onto the pins and lock onto the collar.
This thing is driving me nuts.
There is. But the problem will still be that the pin moves away from the cap and you can't put your finger on the back of it like normal. So whatever method you use to hold the collar you have to push on it and twist at the same time.
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Long nosed pliers or a 10mm ring spanner.
Which is a choice of dexterity ;)
Best have the swear jar ready :-X
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Long nosed pliers or a 10mm ring spanner.
Which is a choice of dexterity ;)
Best have the swear jar ready :-X
I'm already skint because the jar is full. :'( Hope I have better success with the other side. :-\ On the good side it should only ever have to be done the once. :y
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Did mine the other week, three of them went in like a dream, 30 seconds each max .. the fourth one ??? Well after an hours swearing at it I was stopped by Mrs E for lunch, went back after lunch .. and the sodding thing went straight in first time !!! Not a job I enjoyed doing at all :(
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Long nosed pliers or a 10mm ring spanner.
Which is a choice of dexterity ;)
Best have the swear jar ready :-X
This with a blob of superglue :y
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I'm trying everything suggested at the moment. One side done still having problems with the other side.
What way round does both adjusters go back in? Adjustment ring to the front or to the back or does it not matter?
I put the N/S facing the front of the car.
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Getting those clips on must have driven many an OOFer to distraction. Last time I was doing it, in desperation I found on a shelf this packet of handbrake spares, bought in my Senator days. I used new springs and caps and they went on a treat.
I aligned the spring over the pin and in line with the hole in the hub. With LH finger behind the pin and the retaining cap glued to an 8mm long socket I pushed it through the hole, compressed the spring and turned the socket - on it went.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/pdi7ywyup39bfim/HBRAKEspares.jpg?dl=1)
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mintex-MBA711-parking-brake-shoes-FIT-KITS-Replaces-KIT969-03013792432-669243/362214214289?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D52945%26meid%3D6bc43ee595244c338846fcc8b2be31da%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D401252326435%26itm%3D362214214289&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
Still available £8.05
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I'm trying everything suggested at the moment. One side done still having problems with the other side.
What way round does both adjusters go back in? Adjustment ring to the front or to the back or does it not matter?
I put the N/S facing the front of the car.
Both the same is best practice, although either or is fine :y
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Managed finally to get the other 2 on. Adjusted the shoes each side with the adjuster and then adjusted the handbrake cable but the N/S wont hold at all. No resistance. The O/S holds really well. Am I right that the hand brake cable must be at fault?
All the very load squeaking is gone from the rear and the hand brake does feel a lot lighter to pull up. So defiantly needed doing.
Thanks for all your advice so far.
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Check that the near side cable outer has not slipped through the coil on the semi-trailing arm. If it has that would explain it.
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Managed finally to get the other 2 on. Adjusted the shoes each side with the adjuster and then adjusted the handbrake cable but the N/S wont hold at all. No resistance. The O/S holds really well. Am I right that the hand brake cable must be at fault?
All the very load squeaking is gone from the rear and the hand brake does feel a lot lighter to pull up. So definitely needed doing.
Thanks for all your advice so far.
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Check that the near side cable outer has not slipped through the coil on the semi-trailing arm. If it has that would explain it.
The old cable is still on the car and welded in place with dirt and crust and still in place where its always been.
I have a new Pagid cable here, but I'm wondering if I should just let the garage do the cable and recheck and re-adjust everything I've done. Although I'm happy that both sides are back together correctly and I adjusted the star wheel until the wheel couldn't be turned and then backed them off until they just freed. I don't know whats going on with it.
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Is there some kind of balance bar arrangement to equalise the effort? If so could this somehow be at fault?
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Is there some kind of balance bar arrangement to equalise the effort? If so could this somehow be at fault?
The bar it attaches too on the handbrake lever does that job.
If only one side is working, then disconnect the cable from both wheel ends and check that the inner hasn't seized somewhere. It might also be that the cable has stretched and isn't giving enough travel.
But WHY piss about when a new cable is sitting on the bench? Fit the bloody thing, and move on.
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Did you test the handbrake with the car up on axle stands under the forward arms of the subframe. If so the cable has probably crushed and/or broken. One side not working with everything adjusted correctly is either a seized or snapped cable. Get someone to work the handbrake while you look at the joint where the lever inside the drum attaches to the cable. If there's unequal effort on the levers it's probably the cable, if there's equal effort then it may not be adjusted as well as you think.
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The cable must be the problem. I had someone pull the handbrake up and down and the is very little movement on that side compared to to other. I manually pulled the cable behind the drum and turned the wheel by hand and could stop the wheel turning like this.
So its time to have a go at putting the new cable in.
I'm not in the best of health at the moment but I would like to complete the job myself.
I will have a go tomorrow, but the outer cable that is secured in the rear swing arm bracket is well and truly rusted in there. How do I take get it out without damaging the bracket?
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Yes it sounds like the cable but
Re the adjustment
Make sure the handbrake mechanism lever is fully retracted (ie /hence slack cable)when adjusting the star wheel.and also ensure they both have a pull back spring on them or they will never run free properly.
In a perfect world you would slacken cable off,adjust each wheel then re adjust cable..
Pretty much the same as adjusting any if not all handbrakes.make sure all adjustments are done to mechanism first then take up cable
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Unfold the bracket and refold around the new cable supports ;)
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Started to get everything ready for the cable change today. I found a guide in the maintenance section.
I got sent a Pagid (84167) cable from ECP (108720198).
I read in the guide that the cables on both sides are slightly different in length. How different is the length suppose to be?
Just laid the new cable out on the floor to mark the longest side but I found both sides of the new cable to be exactly the same length.
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Fit it, adjust and call it done ;)
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Fit it, adjust and call it done ;)
Just for future reference Al. Are the the original VX cables different lengths or the same lengths for both sides from new?
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Only ever fitted pattern so couldn't say :y
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Pattern parts :o :o Are you allowed to say that on here? ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Pattern parts :o :o Are you allowed to say that on here? ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D
I will burn in hell for less ;D