Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lizzie Zoom on 26 July 2018, 18:36:34
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I make no apologies in repeating my post in the "Dead Person" thread, as I believe this brave individual deserves a full mention in a separate thread as the last of the Spitfire girls who has just died at the grand age of 101. She was one of a number of very brave women of the wartime ATA who delivered aircraft from the factories to where they were needed.
Mary Ellis delivered no less than 400+ Spitfires, and 76 other types of aircraft including Wellington bombers. To do that in unarmed planes with the Luftwaffe always ready to pounce was probably the bravest acts of all those who flew in WW2. A real women who made all the difference and set the scene for women flying fast jets, the top rated fighters of today. She and her colleagues, make no mistake, made a great difference to the RAF's ability to fight off the Luftwaffe swarms over Great Britain, and especially my part of the country whose skies were filled 78 years ago by a very real menace. What the likes of Mary did was allow the men to have their crucial fighters, such as the Spitfire, and give them the means to stop us having now, in 2018, speaking German as our national language, and us not having a democracy. They were that crucial.
Amy Johnson was also one of those brave women of the ATA, but that famous flyer died in 1941 somewhere in the Thames Estuary whilst flying a Spitfire, demonstrating what a dangerous job it was that she, Mary Ellis, and all the other ATA women undertook to keep the brave men attacking the Luftwaffe.
RIP for a brave women and the last of the ATA :'( :'( :'(
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As you say Lizzie a truly crucial role was played by these ladies,sad that they are now all gone but of course that's the order of things.Not a bad innings though. :y R.I.P. :'(
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Absolutely a very brave lady
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As you say Lizzie a truly crucial role was played by these ladies,sad that they are now all gone but of course that's the order of things.Not a bad innings though. :y R.I.P. :'(
The strange thing is though, as I put, she was known as the last of the Spitfire girls. But after reading some other material, I have discovered there are actually 3 other ATA girls still alive, but all younger than Mary Ellis. That is why when reading history we have to be so careful to research and reference more than one source! ::)
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In that case the three remaining ladies have my apologies for trying to see them off before their time :D
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Im certain that when I posted about this earlier today, I read on the BBC website that she was the last surviving female spitfire pilot.
I have just looked at the story again, and it has been moved way down the list of stories, and now says "one of the last surviving". ::)
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Sorry Lizzie but Amy Johnson did not perish while flying a spitfire. She was flying a Airspeed Oxford on 5th Jan 1941 when she ran out of fuel due to adverse weather conditions while delivering it for the ATA to RAF Kidlington near Oxford. She is reported to have bailed out and the plane crashed into the Thames estuary. She was seen in the water by the crew of HMS Hazlemere but attempts to save her failed. Her body was never recovered.
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Sorry Lizzie but Amy Johnson did not perish while flying a spitfire. She was flying a Airspeed Oxford on 5th Jan 1941 when she ran out of fuel due to adverse weather conditions while delivering it for the ATA to RAF Kidlington near Oxford. She is reported to have bailed out and the plane crashed into the Thames estuary. She was seen in the water by the crew of HMS Hazlemere but attempts to save her failed. Her body was never recovered.
Yes, she was indeed. Thanks for the correction :y
There has been speculation since her death about how she really perished, and as you suggest, why she was not rescued when it seems she was spotted in the water. It has been suggested by some that she may have been drawn into the planes propellor when she bailed out, so her body was very mangled and was best left to the sea. Who knows, but for sure she was a brave aviator who died whilst doing her duty for the nation who loved her. :y
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Im certain that when I posted about this earlier today, I read on the BBC website that she was the last surviving female spitfire pilot.
I have just looked at the story again, and it has been moved way down the list of stories, and now says "one of the last surviving". ::)
Yes, because like me the BBC researchers no doubt referenced previous statements of recent times that suggested she was the last of the Spitfire girl pilots, without researching further. Red faces all round perhaps! :-[ :-[
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As I have started this thread, I am duty bound to mention Squadron Leader Geoffery Wellum who died the other day at 96.
He was youngest Spitfire pilots who actually fought in the Battle of Britain. He was one of the few, and a tremendous character who kept himself alive during that battle and the rest of WW2 by quickly learning the survival tactics of a great fighter pilot. Imagine doing what he did; flying a Spitfire into the Battle against the Luftwarre aged just 18! We must remember these fantastic people, the survivors now passing away quickly, who gave us the chance to enjoy the freedoms we enjoy today.
RIP :'( :'(
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Sorry Lizzie but Amy Johnson did not perish while flying a spitfire. She was flying a Airspeed Oxford on 5th Jan 1941 when she ran out of fuel due to adverse weather conditions while delivering it for the ATA to RAF Kidlington near Oxford. She is reported to have bailed out and the plane crashed into the Thames estuary. She was seen in the water by the crew of HMS Hazlemere but attempts to save her failed. Her body was never recovered.
Yes, she was indeed. Thanks for the correction :y
There has been speculation since her death about how she really perished, and as you suggest, why she was not rescued when it seems she was spotted in the water. It has been suggested by some that she may have been drawn into the planes propellor when she bailed out, so her body was very mangled and was best left to the sea. Who knows, but for sure she was a brave aviator who died whilst doing her duty for the nation who loved her. :y
We had an Oxford at RAF Wahn, 2nd ATAF, Communication Flight in the late '50's, and, if memory serves after 60 years, IIRC the access door, which would be the bail out exit, was on the port side, rear of the wing, so improbable that she could have got tangled by the prop.
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Just looked at some pics, the door was port side just above the rear section of the wing.
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As I have started this thread, I am duty bound to mention Squadron Leader Geoffery Wellum who died the other day at 96.
He was youngest Spitfire pilots who actually fought in the Battle of Britain. He was one of the few, and a tremendous character who kept himself alive during that battle and the rest of WW2 by quickly learning the survival tactics of a great fighter pilot. Imagine doing what he did; flying a Spitfire into the Battle against the Luftwarre aged just 18! We must remember these fantastic people, the survivors now passing away quickly, who gave us the chance to enjoy the freedoms we enjoy today.
RIP :'( :'(
I have see him out and about in his home town of Mullion a few times,my father was lucky enough to have listened to many of his tales of the war
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Sorry Lizzie but Amy Johnson did not perish while flying a spitfire. She was flying a Airspeed Oxford on 5th Jan 1941 when she ran out of fuel due to adverse weather conditions while delivering it for the ATA to RAF Kidlington near Oxford. She is reported to have bailed out and the plane crashed into the Thames estuary. She was seen in the water by the crew of HMS Hazlemere but attempts to save her failed. Her body was never recovered.
Yes, she was indeed. Thanks for the correction :y
There has been speculation since her death about how she really perished, and as you suggest, why she was not rescued when it seems she was spotted in the water. It has been suggested by some that she may have been drawn into the planes propellor when she bailed out, so her body was very mangled and was best left to the sea. Who knows, but for sure she was a brave aviator who died whilst doing her duty for the nation who loved her. :y
We had an Oxford at RAF Wahn, 2nd ATAF, Communication Flight in the late '50's, and, if memory serves after 60 years, IIRC the access door, which would be the bail out exit, was on the port side, rear of the wing, so improbable that she could have got tangled by the prop.
Thanks for that. Interesting, and makes me wonder why some would suggest entanglement in the prop. Some of course have suggested a "cover up" by the authorities at the time. Why, only knows, and after all this time no doubt we shall never know what really happened that killed a great women. :(
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The Navy possibly ran over her in haste. Or the reported sighting was a mistake.
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The Navy possibly ran over her in haste. Or the reported sighting was a mistake.
Well that is one explanation, with a ship (RN?) running over her in the sea, that some believe and that is why the authorities kept it all secret.
The other common explanation I have read, with even facts given about the RAF pilot involved, is that Amy failed twice to give the daily identification code to a challenging RAF fighter as was the common practice and was shot down as a possible enemy flown aircraft. That could well explain the secrecy that the authorities of the time placed on this strange case. ;)
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mystery-behind-death-aviator-amy-9528648
Interesting write-up here.
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What a fantastic lady bet her family were proud of her, certainly don't make them like that nowadays.R.I.P. Wonderful Lady.
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mystery-behind-death-aviator-amy-9528648
Interesting write-up here.
Yes, that is really interesting Shackeng and certainly seems more plausible than the other explanations. It could also explain why some have thought she was drawn into the plans propellor and hacked to pieces, but actually it was the rescue ship that caused her death with it's propellers. It also is a satisfactory explanation as to why the authorities kept the circumstances of her death so secret with no body being recovered.
Once more a brave lady who died in the course of her vital war work, but along with Mary Ellis all the ATA girls risked death on every journey, and, as no doubt you well know Shackeng, flying always carries a risk, with flying during 1939-45, a major war and relying on the aero technology of the day, particularly risky!! :o :o
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It was a sad footnote that the ship's captain died as a result of trying to save her!
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It was a sad footnote that the ship's captain died as a result of trying to save her!
Indeed, and the poor, brave fella, died knowing the ship under his command had just killed a national heroine. :'( :'(
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I did not consciously know when I originally posted that this is what is most likely to have happened :'(
No way to go, especially in front of an audience.
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I did not consciously know when I originally posted that this is what is most likely to have happened :'(
No way to go, especially in front of an audience.
Yep DG, and just proves that sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction! I did not know about HMS Haslemere before yesterday ;)
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I can't even get to see that link.When I click on it I get a blank page apart from[in heavy black lettering]403 FORBIDDEN at the top of the page ???
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I can't even get to see that link.When I click on it I get a blank page apart from[in heavy black lettering]403 FORBIDDEN at the top of the page ???
Try it again. It is working for me:
https://mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mystery-behind-death-aviator-amy-9528648
:y
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Nope still the same.just have to give that one a miss.
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Nope still the same.just have to give that one a miss.
For you Baza, a basic cut and paste of the main body of the article:
"Mystery behind the death of aviator Amy Johnson may finally have been solved
Witnesses say that after pilot Amy ditched in the Thames Estuary the boat sent to save her accidentally reversed into her and the propellor chopped her to pieces
Using little more than makeshift maps and a compass, daring Amy had completed incredible journeys. But she ran out of records to set and decided to serve Britain in the Second World War by delivering planes around the country for the RAF .
It was a decision that cost Amy her life, sparking a mystery that still persists today.
Her body was never found and historian Dr Alec Gill believes the evidence points to a grisly end for Amy, chopped up by the propeller blades of the ship sent to rescue her from perishing cold Thames Estuary.
Amy was 37 when, on January 5, 1941, she flew through snow and freezing fog, with a broken compass, to deliver a new Airspeed Oxford plane from Blackpool to Oxfordshire.
She had defied orders to stay put. The flight should have taken 90 minutes but four hours later she crashed off the Kent coast near Herne Bay.
Most historians believe she got lost in the thick cloud and was blown badly off course.
When her plane ran critically short of fuel she spotted the Royal Navy convoy in the Thames and bailed out, for the first and last time in her glittering career, hoping to be rescued.
Seconds after opening her parachute she crashed into the water. Her fingers turned white as she waved frantically for help, before she vanished.
It was presumed she had drowned but fresh evidence may finally explain why her body was never found. It is claimed she was accidentally killed by her rescue ship.
The revelation comes from Harry Gould, 84, whose father, also called Harry, was a Naval reservist on HMS Haslemere.
Harry says the ship had hit a sandbank and was put in reverse to break free.
He says: “So many of the crew were trying to help Amy, but with the ship moving they couldn’t reach her.
“My father saw she was getting too close to the stern and shouted up to the bridge, telling them to cut the engines because they were going the wrong way. But they didn’t listen.
“One of the officers shouted back, ‘Don’t you tell me what to do!’ If they had listened to him Amy might have survived.
“A few seconds later she was dragged under the boat. Everyone thought she had been cut to pieces by the propellers. It’s an awful way for such a special person to die.” Harry and his crewmates were not called to give evidence at the 1943 inquiry into Amy’s death.
But hidden in the official report there is support for his story, from RAF clerk Derek Roberts, whose friend Cpl Bill Hall was also on HMS Haslemere.
It reveals how Amy drifted near the ship, identified herself and complained the water was “bitterly cold”, urging the crew to “get her out as soon as possible”.
“They threw her a rope but she couldn’t get hold if it. Then someone dashed up to the bridge and reversed the ship’s engines. As a result, she was drawn into the propeller and chopped to pieces.” The ship’s captain Lt Cdr Walter Fletcher dived into the water, with a rope tied around his waist, to search for her.
He had to be pulled from the river and died of hypothermia later that day. He was awarded the Albert Medal for his courage.
Dr Gill says a sailor “was within five feet of reaching Amy’s hand. They must have looked into each other’s eyes. It’s tragic.
“This ship should have gone down in history as the ship that saved Amy’s life. Instead, historians are beginning to conclude that the propellers of the Haslemere killed her and that’s why her body was never found. That wasn’t even mentioned when her parents were still alive.”
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The article in the Daily Mirror online is full of photo's, advertising, and much text, so it may all be overwhelming your box of tricks!
;)
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Thanks muchly for that Lizzie :y
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Thanks muchly for that Lizzie :y
8) :y
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RIP :'(