Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 21 November 2018, 12:48:40
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It seems nobody likes the BRINO deal put forward by the PM.
Equally, It seems nobody really likes the good old fashioned 'f*uck you Europe' hard brexit put forward by the minister for Victorian England JRM.
We may as well put STMO's whippet in charge of negotiations. :)
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Pedigree pet foods have several factories in the UK, so her dog food would not be affected by a closed border. Therefore, she would tell Messers Barnier and Junker to get f*ucked.
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Pedigree pet foods have several factories in the UK, so her dog food would not be affected by a closed border. Therefore, she would tell Messers Barnier and Junker to get f*ucked.
So a 'no deal dog' then. :)
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Pedigree pet foods have several factories in the UK, so her dog food would not be affected by a closed border. Therefore, she would tell Messers Barnier and Junker to get f*ucked.
So a 'no deal dog' then. :)
Definitely.
Your last comment has given me an idea.......Noel Edmonds for Prime Minister. Yes? No? Deal? No deal? ;D
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It seems unlikely that the wishy-washy BRINO deal will get through parliament, and even less likely that a 'hard brexit' will fly.
So what happens then? The negotiations with the the EU are all done and dusted.
Options are becoming fewer.
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No one, even politicians close to the process, can give a definitive answer as to what is going to happen. I think thoughts will be concentrated once the vote has been through the house. Yea, and we're into a right mess. Nay, and we're into a right mess.
I hope this clears things up for you, Opti. :)
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No one, even politicians close to the process, can give a definitive answer as to what is going to happen. I think thoughts will be concentrated once the vote has been through the house. Yea, and we're into a right mess. Nay, and we're into a right mess.
I hope this clears things up for you, Opti. :)
I was rather hoping you'd give me an unambiguous answer so I can sleep tonight. :-\
You've let me down. ::) ;)
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How about an Andrea Leadsom led change to what has been agreed so far.
“Drop the backstop that we cannot leave without the EU say so
AND
An agreement now to free trade “
What isquite scary is this deal is as you sayBRINO. UK parliament is going to vote against it and no doubt so would the majority ofthe 27 except they could avoid showing their hand just yet while uk mps squabble. Letsface it ,the more uncertainty and angst the more likely that we never actually leave .
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If we had an election we might get a Corbyn government by way of enema. It can't get much worse than it is can it?
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How can we not leave? Article 50 says we're out on the 29th March, surely the government cannot unilaterally change this?
I guess they could 'extend' the negotiations........until, maybe, 2050.
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If we had an election we might get a Corbyn government by way of enema. It can't get much worse than it is can it?
I've filled my shed with baked beans, me. :y
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Come on now, boys......🎶🎶 Keep right on till the end of the road 🎵🎵🎵🎵😂😂😂
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How can we not leave? Article 50 says we're out on the 29th March, surely the government cannot unilaterally change this?
I guess they could 'extend' the negotiations........until, maybe, 2050.
Not leave? Well what if both sides agree a no deal is not good and say lets extend consultation to 2050?
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How can we not leave? Article 50 says we're out on the 29th March, surely the government cannot unilaterally change this?
I guess they could 'extend' the negotiations........until, maybe, 2050.
Not leave? Well what if both sides agree a no deal is not good and say lets extend consultation to 2050?
Why are you repeating what you quoted? ;D
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What if we simply returned to what we originally signed up for, the Trade Agreement (EEC) and not a political surrender?
Ron.
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How about an Andrea Leadsom led change to what has been agreed so far.
“Drop the backstop that we cannot leave without the EU say so
AND
An agreement now to free trade “
What isquite scary is this deal is as you sayBRINO. UK parliament is going to vote against it and no doubt so would the majority ofthe 27 except they could avoid showing their hand just yet while uk mps squabble. Letsface it ,the more uncertainty and angst the more likely that we never actually leave .
The EU have said that after 2.5 years of negotiation there is no time or inclination for further talks.
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What if we simply returned to what we originally signed up for, the Trade Agreement (EEC) and not a political surrender?
Ron.
Because, Ron, our illustrious leaders have signed a lot of other agreements since then. Without so much as a 'by your leave' to the voting public.
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My head is starting to hurt again. Off out with doggie, to Sandal Castle, where I can read all the boards about how Richard 3rd came a cropper. A nice bit of British history.
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After all this time the remaining 27 EU members should have surrendered with their hands up by now " Don't shoot, you win Englander, we'll do whatever you say"
It hasn't quite worked out like the comic books I used to read. The Eagle and The Victor. :) ;)
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Ah Dr. Opti, what an absolute gem The Eagle was! I loved the cutaway drawings in the centre pages, full of amazing detail: the graphic artist was incredibly skilled. I suppose it died because it was too expensive to produce at that quality level? :(
Ron.
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You might want to reach for your tin foil helmet before reading this. ::)
https://brexitcentral.com/shocked-i-say-appear-establishment-conspiracy-brexit/
It dosnt seem implausible to me though. :-X :-\
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After all this time the remaining 27 EU members should have surrendered with their hands up by now " Don't shoot, you win Englander, we'll do whatever you say"
It hasn't quite worked out like the comic books I used to read. The Eagle and The Victor. :) ;)
Send the Mekon after ,em, he,ll soon sort it flying in on his mini saucer. :D
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Brexit has gone exactly the way I expected.
A crap deal (it was never going to be anything else), nobody keen to take over leadership (not until after its done, even the other candidates are not that stupid) and labour with a idiot in charge which guarantees it wont be their problem for the time being (this may be intended!)
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My head is starting to hurt again. Off out with doggie, to Sandal Castle, where I can read all the boards about how Richard 3rd came a cropper. A nice bit of British history.
The battle of Bosworth is a long way from Barnsley.
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My head is starting to hurt again. Off out with doggie, to Sandal Castle, where I can read all the boards about how Richard 3rd came a cropper. A nice bit of British history.
Jeez, I'd better correct myself there, before Lizzie sees it. I meant Richard, Duke of York. Phew.
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What if we simply returned to what we originally signed up for, the Trade Agreement (EEC) and not a political surrender?
Ron.
A bit late... not to mention that it is fundamentally what we have tabled underneath a layer of shit sauce.
How about an Andrea Leadsom led change to what has been agreed so far.
“Drop the backstop that we cannot leave without the EU say so
AND
An agreement now to free trade “
What isquite scary is this deal is as you sayBRINO. UK parliament is going to vote against it and no doubt so would the majority ofthe 27 except they could avoid showing their hand just yet while uk mps squabble. Letsface it ,the more uncertainty and angst the more likely that we never actually leave .
The EU have said that after 2.5 years of negotiation there is no time or inclination for further talks.
Which effectively rules out the backstop ever being implemented.
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Jacob & co have shown their hand too early. Very few Tory MP,s want Mayhems deal or want her as leader, but they are scared to challenge her now in case they don't win.
I suspect they are waiting for her to lose the commons vote before sharpening the knives.
I also suspect she knows this and when she loses the commons vote will go back to the EU to have a few superficial alterations made to the deal (remember when everyone rejected the EU constitution, and they made a couple of minor changes and renamed it the Lisbon treaty ?) and she will then return hoping to con enough people that she went and gave them what for and dragged them kicking and screaming into making more concessions to her.
That will be her last roll of the dice. Will it work ? Fick knows, but if it does we are locked into Brino for the foreseeable.
Imo, the whole thing is a very British coup, by the establishment and their friends in the MSM, against the 17.4 million voters.
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As they will discover when every independent candidate gets elected at the next General Election...
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being as we only joined the common market under heath,how come we have to deal with the eu hitlers!!
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Brexit has gone exactly the way any sane person expected.
FTFY...
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being as we only joined the common market under heath,how come we have to deal with the eu hitlers!!
Because John Major had no spine (Maastricht) and Tony Blair (Lisbon) is a self serving, onerous, treasonous and onanistic Lady bits >:(
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Lisbon was Brown. He promised a referendum on it and the literally sneaked in through the back door when most cameras had gone home, to sign it on our behalf.
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Brown was Blairs doing. Therefore his fault.
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In mitigation Brown kept us out of the Euro, which Blair would have signed us up to in a heartbeat. So for that alone he is the lesser of the two Tuesdays. ::) :)
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In mitigation Brown kept us out of the Euro, which Blair would have signed us up to in a heartbeat. So for that alone he is the lesser of the two Tuesdays. ::) :)
Bankrupting the country notwithstanding :-X
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In mitigation Brown kept us out of the Euro, which Blair would have signed us up to in a heartbeat. So for that alone he is the lesser of the two Tuesdays. ::) :)
Iirc, he only did so to spite Blair, but we should be grateful for small mercies.
They certainly did a decent job of ruining the country between them, and now Mayhem is doing the finishing touches for them.
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Not bigging Broon up or anything, just saying he is slightly less of a Tuesday than Blair as he kept us out of the Euro. ;)
It dosn't matter what his motives were. He did the country a service and if you remember all the same types who now say Brexit will be a disaster were saying that not ditching Sterling would be a disaster! ::)
Oh yes then there was the ERM which they said Britain had to sign up to, and we did. That went well didn't it? Yet less than a decade later they said we had to join the Euro! Tossers! :-X ::) ;D
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56 Conservative MPs are now signed up with #Standup4Brexit and will vote against Chequers along with the DUP. Don't be surprised if Corbyn has a 3-line whip on the vote against as that would cause maximum damage to the Tories. Corbyn's other motivation is that he knows that the EU will stop his radical socialism, not that he will ever gain power. May is not only the worst PM since WWII, but also the most evil anti-democracy one. >:( >:( >:(
The 2022 General Election will be interesting as neither of the two main parties are electable but also Europe has shown how the Internet & Social Media have changed the political landscape with new parties gaining traction and major numbers of votes very quickly. Like Labour rapidly killed the Liberal party after WWI, I think the same fate awaits the Conservative party & establishment where most Leavers I've spoken to are fuming over what is happening. I've never known people to be so angry over politics, so who will be our anti-establishment figure that channels this anger to their advantage?. Certainly UKIP will be a major winner, but there will also be other parties.
Where the world goes in cycles and we are in the uncertainty and disruption age again, we are certainly living in interesting times.
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See what Sunday brings...
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See what Sunday brings...
I'll be in Paris. #irony ;D
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See what Sunday brings...
I'll be in Paris. #irony ;D
You're far too old to be lusting after nubile Parisian totty. :)
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You're far too old to be lusting after nubile Parisian totty. :)
If I do any of that, I'd come home without my balls.. ;D
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You're far too old to be lusting after nubile Parisian totty. :)
If I do any of that, I'd come home without my balls.. ;D
Many French women seem to favour the 'heavy forestation approach' when it comes to 'pit and pube ' hair.
You'll be plucking Parisian pubes from your teeth for months. :)
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I hope Aaron has his hi-vis jacket with him so he can blend in with the fuel protester rioters. He'll be able tell us how uncomfortable tear gas is as he does the Paris tourist spots. :o :o :o
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56 Conservative MPs are now signed up with #Standup4Brexit and will vote against Chequers along with the DUP. Don't be surprised if Corbyn has a 3-line whip on the vote against as that would cause maximum damage to the Tories. Corbyn's other motivation is that he knows that the EU will stop his radical socialism, not that he will ever gain power. May is not only the worst PM since WWII, but also the most evil anti-democracy one. >:( >:( >:(
The 2022 General Election will be interesting as neither of the two main parties are electable but also Europe has shown how the Internet & Social Media have changed the political landscape with new parties gaining traction and major numbers of votes very quickly. Like Labour rapidly killed the Liberal party after WWI, I think the same fate awaits the Conservative party & establishment where most Leavers I've spoken to are fuming over what is happening. I've never known people to be so angry over politics, so who will be our anti-establishment figure that channels this anger to their advantage?. Certainly UKIP will be a major winner, but there will also be other parties.
Where the world goes in cycles and we are in the uncertainty and disruption age again, we are certainly living in interesting times.
I cannot see UKIP being winners. The brand is tainted. I agree th the Conservatives have ruined their brand. Maybe the Cons will split into two parties. For ages I have thought the Lib Dems have missed an opportunityto grab middle of the road voters fed up with the loony spend all the money we havent got left and the right wing make their cronies rich and privatise everything. No natural leaders .
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Labour are just as riddled with cronyism >:(
As least the Tories are openly capitalist...
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On This week on Thurs. night, Portillo said he felt a cold chill run down his spine when he heard Treasonous May was returning to Brussels for more talks on Saturday, as he immediately thought "what more is she going over there to give away ?".
Well, it looks like the answer to his question is - some sort of fudge on the rights of Gibraltar.
She really has to go - and asap. >:(
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On This week on Thurs. night, Portillo said he felt a cold chill run down his spine when he heard Treasonous May was returning to Brussels for more talks on Saturday, as he immediately thought "what more is she going over there to give away ?".
Well, it looks like the answer to his question is - some sort of fudge on the rights of Gibraltar.
She really has to go - and asap. >:(
So you want this deal to collapse, and for the UK to stay in Europe?
There won’t be a no deal exit, and the EU won’t role over and give us everything we want, when they hold all the aces. You can’t negotiate when you have nothing to barter with... ...and we are an insignificant country who think we are more important than we are. Which has been proved to be 'dangle berries'.
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Right, I have sat on the side lines too long!
TM has done her best against 27 other countries. We are not a super power any longer and we cannot send in our naval fleet to force their hand. Even in war we have never taken on 27 other countries, and especially not in one block at one time. We cannot therefore force the other 27 to do totally what we want as a country.
52%, not including me, voted to leave, but at no stage did they specify want they wanted in detail apart from LEAVE the EU. That is what they are getting, LEAVE. I have to accept what they wanted, even though the benefits of leaving are very doubtful, but there you go, that is democracy, and by that process that is what we are getting by way of Mrs May committing herself totally to that, and no doubt suffering nightmares every night.........she is learning you can never please all the people all the time.
The moaners who now come in all political colours, in all shades of those variants, now so easily criticise about something they could never have achieved in two years. This kind of complex deal should have taken 5 years at least (WW2 took 6 years to re-shape Europe!!), but the Leavers wanted it NOW! So be it, THEY are getting what they wished for, and the rest of the 48% will have to live with it!
Now, every leaver stop winging and just support the democratic leader of this proud country who has achieved so much, in such a short time, against the odds and up against 27 other countries!
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On This week on Thurs. night, Portillo said he felt a cold chill run down his spine when he heard Treasonous May was returning to Brussels for more talks on Saturday, as he immediately thought "what more is she going over there to give away ?".
Well, it looks like the answer to his question is - some sort of fudge on the rights of Gibraltar.
She really has to go - and asap. >:(
So you want this deal to collapse, and for the UK to stay in Europe?
There won’t be a no deal exit, and the EU won’t role over and give us everything we want, when they hold all the aces. You can’t negotiate when you have nothing to barter with... ...and we are an insignificant country who think we are more important than we are. Which has been proved to be 'dangle berries'.
Sigh...….if (when) the commons rejects her deal, and nothing else gets put in its place before 29th March, we leave without a deal. Simples. ::)
PS. The UK economy is bigger than most EU economies put together.
The only really strong economy in the EU is Germany, and that is largely due to exports. If (when) the Euro disappears and they had to revert to the Mark, it would be a strong currency and their export earnings would drop dramatically.
This is why the Germans put the Greek people through hell - in order to protect their exports.
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Right, I have sat on the side lines too long!
TM has done her best against 27 other countries. We are not a super power any longer and we cannot send in our naval fleet to force their hand. Even in war we have never taken on 27 other countries, and especially not in one block at one time. We cannot therefore force the other 27 to do totally what we want as a country.
52%, not including me, voted to leave, but at no stage did they specify want they wanted in detail apart from LEAVE the EU. That is what they are getting, LEAVE. I have to accept what they wanted, even though the benefits of leaving are very doubtful, but there you go, that is democracy, and by that process that is what we are getting by way of Mrs May committing herself totally to that, and no doubt suffering nightmares every night.........she is learning you can never please all the people all the time.
The moaners who now come in all political colours, in all shades of those variants, now so easily criticise about something they could never have achieved in two years. This kind of complex deal should have taken 5 years at least (WW2 took 6 years to re-shape Europe!!), but the Leavers wanted it NOW! So be it, THEY are getting what they wished for, and the rest of the 48% will have to live with it!
Now, every leaver stop winging and just support the democratic leader of this proud country who has achieved so much, in such a short time, against the odds and up against 27 other countries!
There is so much utter nonsense in there I hardly know where to start.
Might have another look after the Grand Prix. ::) ;D
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Right, I have sat on the side lines too long!
TM has done her best against 27 other countries. We are not a super power any longer and we cannot send in our naval fleet to force their hand. Even in war we have never taken on 27 other countries, and especially not in one block at one time. We cannot therefore force the other 27 to do totally what we want as a country.
52%, not including me, voted to leave, but at no stage did they specify want they wanted in detail apart from LEAVE the EU. That is what they are getting, LEAVE. I have to accept what they wanted, even though the benefits of leaving are very doubtful, but there you go, that is democracy, and by that process that is what we are getting by way of Mrs May committing herself totally to that, and no doubt suffering nightmares every night.........she is learning you can never please all the people all the time.
The moaners who now come in all political colours, in all shades of those variants, now so easily criticise about something they could never have achieved in two years. This kind of complex deal should have taken 5 years at least (WW2 took 6 years to re-shape Europe!!), but the Leavers wanted it NOW! So be it, THEY are getting what they wished for, and the rest of the 48% will have to live with it!
Now, every leaver stop winging and just support the democratic leader of this proud country who has achieved so much, in such a short time, against the odds and up against 27 other countries!
There is so much utter nonsense in there I hardly know where to start.
Might have another look after the Grand Prix. ::) ;D
I could not agree more! It is all "utter nonsense", the whole belief that Brexit could happen, and happen quickly is "utter nonsense", and everything that everyone is saying, dependant on their own point of view, and from what part of the political spectrum they hail from, is "utter nonsense"!!
We could go on all day, all night, all day, and all night again, and again stating it is all "utter nonsense" and we would get no-where as you, like me, and all other voters, are not having to negotiate with the democratically elected leaders of 27 other nations. If you believe everything is "utter nonsense", then go to the EU and explain to them that theory and see what they make of your "utter nonsense"!!
I am just stating what I am observing and it may be "utter nonsense", but it is no more "utter nonsense" than your "utter nonsense"!!
Anything we all say on this forum or any other forum will make FA difference!! ::) ::) ::)
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Shouting stuff twice doesn't make it correct or any less comedic ;D
Everyone is being screwed over, including all you ever so quite Remoaners ::)
That's why it's called a compromise.
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Shouting stuff twice doesn't make it correct or any less comedic ;D
Everyone is being screwed over, including all you ever so quite Remoaners ::)
That's why it's called a compromise capitulation.
Of course the main loser when the absurd backstop kicks in will be our democracy and everybody should be angry about that! ::)
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Olly Robbins has not been negotiating with the elected leaders of 27 other member states (they aren't countries). He has been colluding with his unelected friends in Brussels. ::)
I at least have some hope of beiong able to make a small difference to this shambles, as I have joined the useless Tory party, so that I can hopefully vote to depose Treasonous May in the near future.
For an educated person LZ, your lack of political awareness has always been surprising to me. I well remember you singing the praises of Cameron when he was elected leader, and telling us all what a great leader he was going to be - just for one example. ::)
May is beyond useless, and in five years time when all and sundry are saying thats what she was, I expect you to then be saying the same. ::)
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Shouting stuff twice doesn't make it correct or any less comedic ;D
Everyone is being screwed over, including all you ever so quite Remoaners ::)
That's why it's called a compromise.
Yes, and for unity of our country I am prepared to accept what comes, for better or worse, as we have all got to move on :y
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PS. The UK economy is bigger than most EU economies put together.
I’m afraid just about every economist in the country agrees that will not be the case if we had a no-deal exit. Which is why it will never happen.
So you have a deal, which will always be a compromise, with the weaker party compromising far more than the stronger party. Or you forget the whole thing and carry on as before.
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Olly Robbins has not been negotiating with the elected leaders of 27 other member states (they aren't countries). He has been colluding with his unelected friends in Brussels. ::)
I at least have some hope of beiong able to make a small difference to this shambles, as I have joined the useless Tory party, so that I can hopefully vote to depose Treasonous May in the near future.
For an educated person LZ, your lack of political awareness has always been surprising to me. I well remember you singing the praises of Cameron when he was elected leader, and telling us all what a great leader he was going to be - just for one example. ::)
May is beyond useless, and in five years time when all and sundry are saying thats what she was, I expect you to then be saying the same. ::)
I did not and in fact I found him very disappointing. As for my personal opinion, just because it may not fall in line with your views it does not mean I lack political awareness. ;)
Also personal insults and questioning personal abilities will do no more good than those expressed throughout this Brexit fiasco.
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Olly Robbins has not been negotiating with the elected leaders of 27 other member states (they aren't countries). He has been colluding with his unelected friends in Brussels. ::)
I at least have some hope of beiong able to make a small difference to this shambles, as I have joined the useless Tory party, so that I can hopefully vote to depose Treasonous May in the near future.
For an educated person LZ, your lack of political awareness has always been surprising to me. I well remember you singing the praises of Cameron when he was elected leader, and telling us all what a great leader he was going to be - just for one example. ::)
May is beyond useless, and in five years time when all and sundry are saying thats what she was, I expect you to then be saying the same. ::)
I did not and in fact I found him very disappointing. As for my personal opinion, just because it may not fall in line with your views it does not mean I lack political awareness. ;)
Also personal insults and questioning personal abilities will do no more good than those expressed throughout this Brexit fiasco.
Yes you did. Read back through your own posts.
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PS. The UK economy is bigger than most EU economies put together.
I’m afraid just about every economist in the country agrees that will not be the case if we had a no-deal exit. Which is why it will never happen.
Most of these economists that you speak of either work directly for the government (the economic models that the Treasury have been using have been widely criticised), or they work for organisations that receive funding from the government and/or the EU. ::)
The IFS is a good example as they receive funding from the government, the Economic and Social Research Council (who in turn are funded by the government ) and the EU.
These economists can't even forecast the next quarters GDP figures correctly, they didn't see the financial crash coming, and predicted that the UK would go into recession and hundreds of thousands of jobs would be lost just for voting to leave the EU. ::)
As we know that was absolute bollix and the UK's economy has performed quite well considering the uncertainty. :)
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Also the same people who told us if we didn't join the Euro our economy was finished.
Economists are people who read books but have no clue how to make money.
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We are all still in the thrall of project fear. In fact it is ramping up. Cue Carney about Mid Dec.
So the Commons may well vote down the deal, May is going on a charm offensive to persuade voters to persuade their MPs . That is rich when MPs disregard how their constituents vote.
Pizza Club no deal with an extended period to try and mitigate the fallout?. If only we had some talented leaders.
Back to the original question. , I think the balance of the 48 will be reached if the Commons votes down the deal. I wonder if then we will find we are legally bound to honour the deal! ;D
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PS. The UK economy is bigger than most EU economies put together.
I’m afraid just about every economist in the country agrees that will not be the case if we had a no-deal exit. Which is why it will never happen.
Most of these economists that you speak of either work directly for the government (the economic models that the Treasury have been using have been widely criticised), or they work for organisations that receive funding from the government and/or the EU. ::)
The IFS is a good example as they receive funding from the government, the Economic and Social Research Council (who in turn are funded by the government ) and the EU.
These economists can't even forecast the next quarters GDP figures correctly, they didn't see the financial crash coming, and predicted that the UK would go into recession and hundreds of thousands of jobs would be lost just for voting to leave the EU. ::)
As we know that was absolute bollix and the UK's economy has performed quite well considering the uncertainty. :)
The model they usually use is the Gravity Model which according to the economics professor who invented it, he said it was not only inappropriate to use for this but down right misleading & dishonest.
Our preeminent macro economist professor that was knighted for being correct (he usually is) Sir Patrick Minford iirc expects with Canada+++ an extra 1-1.5% of GDP growth per year and no deal 0-0.5%. Those who are expecting an immediate recession on No Deal will probably be disappointed due to how GDP is calculated, do you understand why?
Once we triggered Article 50 leaving is out of the UK's hand as our Parliament is in control of UK law and Brussels EU ones and this is an EU law. 29-03-2019 we leave deal or no deal, Mays suggesting otherwise is just another lie from a serial liar. At my last count over 90 Tory MPs said they are going to vote against the deal & as they realise the full horrors of the May, Hammond, Robbins & others capitulation that will rise as Tory MP pragmatism of keeping their seat always wins the day. May's total incompetence, stubborn bloody mindedness will probably cost her, her job & I sincerely hope so. Worst PM I've ever lived under that makes Major & Heath look competent in comparison.
Tories certainly seem to pick duff leaders & PMs. Gove, throwing Boris under a bus in the leadership contest is IMO the biggest cause of where we are and he by supporting May has just done the same to 17.4m leavers & the UK fishing industry which he presides over. >:( >:( >:( He is obviously currently on a double daily ration of snake oil.
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Olly Robbins has not been negotiating with the elected leaders of 27 other member states (they aren't countries). He has been colluding with his unelected friends in Brussels. ::)
I at least have some hope of beiong able to make a small difference to this shambles, as I have joined the useless Tory party, so that I can hopefully vote to depose Treasonous May in the near future.
For an educated person LZ, your lack of political awareness has always been surprising to me. I well remember you singing the praises of Cameron when he was elected leader, and telling us all what a great leader he was going to be - just for one example. ::)
May is beyond useless, and in five years time when all and sundry are saying thats what she was, I expect you to then be saying the same. ::)
I did not and in fact I found him very disappointing. As for my personal opinion, just because it may not fall in line with your views it does not mean I lack political awareness. ;)
Also personal insults and questioning personal abilities will do no more good than those expressed throughout this Brexit fiasco.
Yes you did. Read back through your own posts.
Oh yeah, and I have time for that!!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
Anyway, you are making the accusation about me saying something, so you prove it along with showing me the political context it was said in. ;)
I know what I have thought and said at certain times, and that has changed dependant on the political situation at the time, as it should do. I have never gone with the thought that a politician is never right or never wrong, no matter what party they are from. That is good political science, including the crucial philosophy behind it, which studying politics has taught me to do. I do not stay on one track, but use my intelligence to decide what I think at that point in time in context with all other considerations. The trouble with current politics is there is too much intransigence, as we are witnessing with Brexit. >:(
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The trouble with current politics is there is too much intransigence, as we are witnessing with Brexit. >:(
Quite right Lizzie! :y
The EU have been very good at intransigence and it's worked very well for them. ::)
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The trouble with current politics is there is too much intransigence, as we are witnessing with Brexit. >:(
Quite right Lizzie! :y
The EU have been very good at intransigence and it's worked very well for them. ::)
I suspect we won't even know the meaning of the word "intransigence" until they have us signed up to that backstop "agreement". ::)
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33.5 million people voted in the referendum in 2016. It stands to reason, therefore, that there are 33.5 million varying ideas of what Brexit actually means to people who voted, not to mention the further 13 million opinions of those who didn't bother to vote.
However crummy this deal seems, and for whatever reason, I genuinely believe that anyone tasked with putting it together would have ended up with broadly the same result.
I would go as far as to suggest that you could probably count the number of people (not only of the 46 million people in the UK, but also in Europe as a whole) who are 100% in agreement with every nuance of the deal on one hand.
In light of this point, is it better either to proceed in the manner of this deal, ie as a difficult compromise; or to instead to risk political chaos and the undoubtable economic carnage that this will bring?
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33.5 million people voted in the referendum in 2016. It stands to reason, therefore, that there are 33.5 million varying ideas of what Brexit actually means to people who voted, not to mention the further 13 million opinions of those who didn't bother to vote.
However crummy this deal seems, and for whatever reason, I genuinely believe that anyone tasked with putting it together would have ended up with broadly the same result.
I would go as far as to suggest that you could probably count the number of people (not only of the 46 million people in the UK, but also in Europe as a whole) who are 100% in agreement with every nuance of the deal on one hand.
In light of this point, is it better either to proceed in the manner of this deal, ie as a difficult compromise; or to instead to risk political chaos and the undoubtable economic carnage that this will bring?
Calm down, dear, it's only a spat. We have them regularly.
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;D
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Yes no need to shout. ::)
It's not a compromise it's a humiliating capitulation that was so unnecessary that I'm sure it's all part of the Establishment's plan to keep us in. :-X
You must have seen Barnier, Junker and Tusk on the telly on Sunday all smiles, laughter and clapping each other on the back. They know they've stiffed us, we know they've stiffed us and yet May, Hammond and co will still spend the next couple of weeks telling us it's a good deal and we had to make some compromises. >:(
Anyone who believes this, clearly dosn't understand the implications of the absurd backstop..... ::)
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Yes no need to shout. ::)
It's not a compromise it's a humiliating capitulation that was so unnecessary that I'm sure it's all part of the Establishment's plan to keep us in. :-X
You must have seen Barnier, Junker and Tusk on the telly on Sunday all smiles, laughter and clapping each other on the back. They know they've stiffed us, we know they've stiffed us and yet May, Hammond and co will still spend the next couple of weeks telling us it's a good deal and we had to make some compromises. >:(
Anyone who believes this, clearly dosn't understand the implications of the absurd backstop..... ::)
I would think that is how most brexiteers will see it.
Raab has said it's worse than remaining in the EU.......which was so bad we decided to leave. :)
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33.5 million people voted in the referendum in 2016. It stands to reason, therefore, that there are 33.5 million varying ideas of what Brexit actually means to people who voted, not to mention the further 13 million opinions of those who didn't bother to vote.
However crummy this deal seems, and for whatever reason, I genuinely believe that anyone tasked with putting it together would have ended up with broadly the same result.
I would go as far as to suggest that you could probably count the number of people (not only of the 46 million people in the UK, but also in Europe as a whole) who are 100% in agreement with every nuance of the deal on one hand.
In light of this point, is it better either to proceed in the manner of this deal, ie as a difficult compromise; or to instead to risk political chaos and the undoubtable economic carnage that this will bring?
Very much agree with all that! :y
Listening tonight on Mrs May's schedule doing interviews, attending "question & answer" sessions, maybe doing a debate session with Corbyn, let alone being quizzed left, right and centre in the Commons, I know what I would do now if I were her and had secured this draft agreement. Retire, take my pension, and leave all those who think they can do better to it!
If she doesn't do that I can see her becoming very ill, like Anthony Eden, and making some very bad decisions whilst suffering from extremely high stress levels. Her job is done. She should move on and leave the buggers to it! ;)
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Que? The backstop is a monumentally bad decision
Her job is done?. .No she did a half cocked effort as a remainer. If the job was “done” the nation and parliament would be behind her.
She should move on? Yes without her pension .
Leave the buggers to it? Like abandoning ship having done half a job..
SIGH . If only the country had any decent statesmen/women .
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Que? The backstop is a monumentally bad decision
Her job is done?. .No she did a half cocked effort as a remainer. If the job was “done” the nation and parliament would be behind her.
She should move on? Yes without her pension .
Leave the buggers to it? Like abandoning ship having done half a job..
SIGH . If only the country had any decent statesmen/women .
She has done what she could so, yes, her job is done, no matter what side of the house you sit. She got a deal, that was the aim, so she has done what she could. Now is the time for her to move aside and let who ever thinks they can do better to do it. ;)
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If the job was “done” the nation and parliament would be behind her.
I doubt that anyone, with any deal could achieve that. For example, there is a sizeable portion of the country (some sub-set of the 48%), myself included who do and will always believe this is a really daft idea. I'm at one end of the spectrum, I dare say someone like Sir Tig is at the other. There is no deal that anyone could have struck that would please us both.
All this talk of "let's pull together" and "make the best of it" is utter cobblers. As is May going out canvassing the public.
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Sorry. She could have got a hundred different deals. Anyone on this forum could have.
The crucial thing is “ the best deal” . There are a lot of people including me that feel it could have been better. I remember her removing the likes of David Davies. I dare say Barnier objected to him as too anti EU.
The sad thing is we will be panicked into accepting it. Two years of project fear and the BBC and most people would be ready to sell their parents just to get security for knowing it is all done and dusted so they can get back to Facebook and Hello! We have become a nation of wusses .
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We all have an opinion... Make it an informed one and read the documents ;)
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We all have an opinion... Make it an informed one and read the documents ;)
There really is no need. Out means out for me. But, then again, I'm aware that that's only a personal perspective.