Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: matt-sboro on 19 August 2008, 18:54:06
-
does anybody know anything about spray foaming?
i just got a verbal quote over the phone for a 2inch thick covering of my internal roof space (just the roof not the whole loft)
and he said roughly about £1750
now all i want is a insulating covering then plasterboard so i can use my loft space for my gym equipment without getting covered in horrible dust
i have just seen a DIY kit (medium tank 200sq/ft @25mm) for £180
anyone help?
-
does anybody know anything about spray foaming?
i just got a verbal quote over the phone for a 2inch thick covering of my internal roof space (just the roof not the whole loft)
and he said roughly about £1750
now all i want is a insulating covering then plasterboard so i can use my loft space for my gym equipment without getting covered in horrible dust
i have just seen a DIY kit (medium tank 200sq/ft @25mm) for £180
anyone help?
I have a few issues with spray foam insulation the main one being, how do the roof joists remain dry and well ventilated to stop them rotting!
My recommendation would be to use some celotex sheet (available in different thicknesses) to place between the rafters whilst still leaving at least a 1-2 inch gap between the insulation and the felt/tiles to suppurt airflow through the roof.
It will also be cheaper than what you were quoted, probably better insulating, less messy to install etc.
-
Marks is correct this is the way we apply the building regs, when replacing roof coverings. However, in your case your not replacing the roof covering. but what Marks has suggested is the correct way to do it, and as said a lot cheaper and you can do it yourself :y
-
I insulated the floor of a mobile home (my parents) with bin bags with rockwool in them stapled to the joists, then boxed in with hardboard - something similar might work for a roof
-
would these celotex sheets just nail/screw over the rafters like a plasterboard sheet?
also - my loft has next to no ventilationas i have a broken condensation unit in my loft - am i ok to add ridge vents to give enough ventilation to my roof space?
-
have u had the floor joists replaced in the loft? as normally loft floors are not weight rated, and you could end up falling through!
-
i have braced the roof joists to each other and also supported it from the main beams that go from side to side so its safe enough up there.
my house is 80 years old too so it was built with the proper materials!!
i've got 2 10inch by 5inch beams that go from 1 side to the other!
-
would these celotex sheets just nail/screw over the rafters like a plasterboard sheet?
also - my loft has next to no ventilationas i have a broken condensation unit in my loft - am i ok to add ridge vents to give enough ventilation to my roof space?
I would echo what Mark said. You need to leave 1" breathing space between tiles and insulation for any water to get blown out. Nailing onto rafters is fine, but if you go for the Building Reg amount, its something like 4" so your room will be smaller by 8". If yo have a look at Celotex and Kingspan's sites they have plenty leaflets about how they recomend to do it. There are some sellers on fleabay who sell slightly damaged sheets sheets of insulation, and if you hunt you can get it at a very good price. I got stuff from "secondsandco" who has a fair amount on sale at present http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kingspan-Insulation-Board-60-90mm-Phenolic-Mixed-Lot_W0QQitemZ290253021626QQihZ019QQcategoryZ63894QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Have fun, its a tremendously shitty job up there in the dust and muck, trying to fit a huge piece of insulation between the raters and not go thro the floor at the same time. And then you have to somehow hold it in position while you struggle trying to put in 6 or 8" screws to hold it up, and then you have to put plasterboard up on top, and try and find where the rafters are to put the screw in, cause plasterboard nails won't hold in insulation. ;D ;D ;D
Best of luck :y :y :y
Cheers Ken
-
I would screw then to the rafters rather than nail as you could loose some tiles ;)
-
I wouldn;t bother with seconds any more, its dropped in price a lot now so most builders merchants will supply a 2 inch sheet for about 18 quid.
-
Do you have felt under your roof tiles or slates?
Is there sufficient height to create a horizontal ceiling with space below the ridgeboard?
The building regs specify a minimum 50mm / 2" continuous air space between the insulation and the under felt but this assumes that you also have vents at the eaves and a ventilated ridge which you wont have unless you have re-roofed recently.
If you cant provide the continuous ridge vent then you must ensure that you have a gap below the ridgeboard to allow some cross ventilation.
Dont ignore the ventilation issues, you could end up with rotten roof timbers.
-
have u had the floor joists replaced in the loft? as normally loft floors are not weight rated, and you could end up falling through!
I worry about that everytime I look at the amount of stuff, mostly junk, that we have in there. ::) ::) ::)
-
ideally you would run 50x50mm battens up the rafters to provide your minimum 2" (50mm) air ventilation gap. Is this a true room in the roof conversion (do you have/ need planning permission)?
Specced a job today with 130mm Celotex between rafters and 40mm under to achieve 0.14w/m2 U-value (i design timber frame buldings)
free plug : http://www.taylor-lane.co.uk/
I would be very very careful if you are putting GYM equipment up there, sounds a bit heavy :-?
-
ideally you would run 50x50mm battens up the rafters to provide your minimum 2" (50mm) air ventilation gap. Is this a true room in the roof conversion (do you have/ need planning permission)?
Specced a job today with 130mm Celotex between rafters and 40mm under to achieve 0.14w/m2 U-value (i design timber frame buldings)
free plug : http://www.taylor-lane.co.uk/
I would be very very careful if you are putting GYM equipment up there, sounds a bit heavy :-?
Is that a new name for Wii ;D ;D ;D
-
i can actually see the roof tiles from inside my loft with cement plugging the gaps - so there is no felt
i've not put much up there - just my bench and its sat by the chimney which is supporting some joists and over one of the stud walls - so its very well supported up there with all the extra supporting i have done.
its not a proper room - i have fitted a big loft hatch and just wanted to make it fairly warm in the winter with something to stop me getting a mouth full of 80 year old dust in me gob!
and maybe a couple of velux windows for the summer
-
i can actually see the roof tiles from inside my loft with cement plugging the gaps - so there is no felt
i've not put much up there - just my bench and its sat by the chimney which is supporting some joists and over one of the stud walls - so its very well supported up there with all the extra supporting i have done.
its not a proper room - i have fitted a big loft hatch and just wanted to make it fairly warm in the winter with something to stop me getting a mouth full of 80 year old dust in me gob!
and maybe a couple of velux windows for the summer
stud wall might not be loadbearing in a house as old as yours but i'm not gonna tell you what to do i'm sure youve checked it out :y
always remember the tale one of our structural engineers told me, his friend used to keep his 'collection' in the loft, turns out he was a bit of an archeologist on the side and basicaly had a loft full of rocks :o :D :o
-
It sounds like you are as well to go for Building Reg appro, you could go to all the work of putting in windows, only to get told to take them out again :-X
I am following BR in my current project, I nailed 1"sq batons 1" down on the rafters and am pushing about 2" insulation between the rafters up to the batton, hence the required gap, so I only need a further 2" screwed below to meet requirements. I was lucky and got some 2" insulation with plasterboard bonded from Seconds and Co for a very good price, so I just screw this lot up, get it skimmed and that's it.
I found the Building Control Dept in Bradford very helpful, I took lots of photos during each stage of the insulation process, and when I went to see the inspector for the half way thro checkup, I showed him the photos, and he was happy enough with what he saw to say "just proceed, no need for a site visit" :y Also when you come to sell the house, you can show the photos to any HIPs person to prove it meets BR standards :y
Ken
-
It sounds like you are as well to go for Building Reg appro, you could go to all the work of putting in windows, only to get told to take them out again :-X
I am following BR in my current project, I nailed 1"sq batons 1" down on the rafters and am pushing about 2" insulation between the rafters up to the batton, hence the required gap, so I only need a further 2" screwed below to meet requirements. I was lucky and got some 2" insulation with plasterboard bonded from Seconds and Co for a very good price, so I just screw this lot up, get it skimmed and that's it.
I found the Building Control Dept in Bradford very helpful, I took lots of photos during each stage of the insulation process, and when I went to see the inspector for the half way thro checkup, I showed him the photos, and he was happy enough with what he saw to say "just proceed, no need for a site visit" :y Also when you come to sell the house, you can show the photos to any HIPs person to prove it meets BR standards :y
Ken
hopefully HIP's will get binned before i have to sell mine :D
-
It sounds like you are as well to go for Building Reg appro, you could go to all the work of putting in windows, only to get told to take them out again :-X
I am following BR in my current project, I nailed 1"sq batons 1" down on the rafters and am pushing about 2" insulation between the rafters up to the batton, hence the required gap, so I only need a further 2" screwed below to meet requirements. I was lucky and got some 2" insulation with plasterboard bonded from Seconds and Co for a very good price, so I just screw this lot up, get it skimmed and that's it.
I found the Building Control Dept in Bradford very helpful, I took lots of photos during each stage of the insulation process, and when I went to see the inspector for the half way thro checkup, I showed him the photos, and he was happy enough with what he saw to say "just proceed, no need for a site visit" :y Also when you come to sell the house, you can show the photos to any HIPs person to prove it meets BR standards :y
Ken
hopefully HIP's will get binned before i have to sell mine :D
Yes, or made of some use................... No, that would require thinking by civil servants, which is too much to ask.
Ken
-
The current HIP's dont cover anything like this at all, they are only interested in insulation values and then its only what they can see.
They are an absolute waste of time, money and paper!
-
Interestingly, you can board, insulate and fit velux windows into a roof without building regs........its when it becomes an inhabited room with permanent access (i.e. stairs rather than a removable ladder) that building regs are required.
-
Interestingly, you can board, insulate and fit velux windows into a roof without building regs........its when it becomes an inhabited room with permanent access (i.e. stairs rather than a removable ladder) that building regs are required.
That's useful to know. I have such a loft - boarded and insulated by the previous owner and wondered what red tape would be involved in a couple of velux windows. Access is by loft hatch and ladder. I suspect I would have to rip it out and start again to meet building regs - that's not going to happen.
Kevin
-
The current HIP's dont cover anything like this at all, they are only interested in insulation values and then its only what they can see.
They are an absolute waste of time, money and paper!
And a lot of houses are selling before the HIPs are ready
-
Interestingly, you can board, insulate and fit velux windows into a roof without building regs........its when it becomes an inhabited room with permanent access (i.e. stairs rather than a removable ladder) that building regs are required.
That's useful to know. I have such a loft - boarded and insulated by the previous owner and wondered what red tape would be involved in a couple of velux windows. Access is by loft hatch and ladder. I suspect I would have to rip it out and start again to meet building regs - that's not going to happen.
Kevin
The planning exemption for dormer windows in a loft is here on page 12:
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/planningguidehouseholders.pdf
-
The current HIP's dont cover anything like this at all, they are only interested in insulation values and then its only what they can see.
They are an absolute waste of time, money and paper!
And a lot of houses are selling before the HIPs are ready
A mate of mine is an architect and surveyor and he also reckons they're a total choccy teapot and something his profession were dead against. As usual with our nannying government, they knew best and ignored the advice of the professionals. >:(
Kevin
-
The current HIP's dont cover anything like this at all, they are only interested in insulation values and then its only what they can see.
They are an absolute waste of time, money and paper!
And a lot of houses are selling before the HIPs are ready
A mate of mine is an architect and surveyor and he also reckons they're a total choccy teapot and something his profession were dead against. As usual with our nannying government, they knew best and ignored the advice of the professionals. >:(
Kevin
You can eat chocolate teapots, not sure what you can do with a HIP though :-? ::)
-
You can eat chocolate teapots, not sure what you can do with a HIP though
Well, it's made of paper. Most paperwork has at least one useful purpose, and only occasionally more than one. Andrex it might not be, I grant you, but....
;D
Kevin
-
Interestingly, you can board, insulate and fit velux windows into a roof without building regs........its when it becomes an inhabited room with permanent access (i.e. stairs rather than a removable ladder) that building regs are required.
Thats why I got my extension passed before fitting heating and electric ;)
-
i can actually see the roof tiles from inside my loft with cement plugging the gaps - so there is no felt
i've not put much up there - just my bench and its sat by the chimney which is supporting some joists and over one of the stud walls - so its very well supported up there with all the extra supporting i have done.
its not a proper room - i have fitted a big loft hatch and just wanted to make it fairly warm in the winter with something to stop me getting a mouth full of 80 year old dust in me gob!
and maybe a couple of velux windows for the summer
No slaters felt so you really must provide some eaves to ridge or eaves to eaves ventilation.
-
kingspan insulation in between the rafters, plasterboard then just tape and joint it, job will only take a couple of days in all.