Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: BazaJT on 20 July 2019, 08:44:35
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I see a report has been released stating that the cost of the great white elephant that is HS2 will likely rise by a measly £30bn.When a project is put out to tender and then contracts signed how can costs be allowed to just spiral in this way?
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I see a report has been released stating that the cost of the great white elephant that is HS2 will likely rise by a measly £30bn.When a project is put out to tender and then contracts signed how can costs be allowed to just spiral in this way?
It is a major British engineering project, so yes it is "allowed" to rocket beyond budget and behind time targets. It has happened so often throughout our history over the last 200 years. ::) ::) :D :D ;)
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The Palace of Westminster cost 3 times the budget, and was supposed to be completed in 6 years. It took 30! HS2 hasn't even started to compare, and is still at a stage where we should cancel it rather than buying another white elephant.
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Even if it is cancelled today, it will have cost billions.
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They should convert it to MagLev! :y
Solar powered of course... ::) ;D
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Even if it is cancelled today, it will have cost billions.
It's a colossal waste of money anyway, why piss more away?
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Scrap hs2 and make it a 5 lane motorway, be cheaper, and a lot more beneficial., Also send it in a straight line so it demolish's large areas of Birmingham, London. If that fails ask the Luftwaffe to come back and remodel London properly.. ;D
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Even if it is cancelled today, it will have cost billions.
The original estimate for the channel tunnel was £67/14/6d.
I believe the final cost was considerably more. :)
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I see a report has been released stating that the cost of the great white elephant that is HS2 will likely rise by a measly £30bn.When a project is put out to tender and then contracts signed how can costs be allowed to just spiral in this way?
It is a major British engineering project, so yes it is "allowed" to rocket beyond budget and behind time targets. It has happened so often throughout our history over the last 200 years. ::) ::) :D :D ;)
yes and the rich taxpayers have deep pockets so why let a minor overrun upset anyone.
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I see a report has been released stating that the cost of the great white elephant that is HS2 will likely rise by a measly £30bn.When a project is put out to tender and then contracts signed how can costs be allowed to just spiral in this way?
It is a major British engineering project, so yes it is "allowed" to rocket beyond budget and behind time targets. It has happened so often throughout our history over the last 200 years. ::) ::) :D :D ;)
yes and the rich taxpayers have deep pockets so why let a minor overrun upset anyone.
Indeed, and just think of the jobs it will create.
In addition we all want to see Britain Great again, so with the money they tell us we will save by existing the EU we can pay for this new line outright! :P :P :D :D ;)
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I see a report has been released stating that the cost of the great white elephant that is HS2 will likely rise by a measly £30bn.When a project is put out to tender and then contracts signed how can costs be allowed to just spiral in this way?
Ah, but which original figures are we talking, as the initial roadshows I attended, run by Network Rail (because HS2 Ltd didn't exist properly then) couldn't make their mind up between £23bn and £30bn in their presentation. When I asked for clarification, I was told its "only" a small discrepancy, and that it was irrelevant.
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I see a report has been released stating that the cost of the great white elephant that is HS2 will likely rise by a measly £30bn.When a project is put out to tender and then contracts signed how can costs be allowed to just spiral in this way?
It is a major British engineering project, so yes it is "allowed" to rocket beyond budget and behind time targets. It has happened so often throughout our history over the last 200 years. ::) ::) :D :D ;)
yes and the rich taxpayers have deep pockets so why let a minor overrun upset anyone.
Indeed, and just think of the jobs it will create.
In addition we all want to see Britain Great again, so with the money they tell us we will save by existing the EU we can pay for this new line outright! :P :P :D :D ;)
This *ISN'T* the way.
Again, from the roadshows, for this to break even (ignoring build costs, this is just running costs), the maths is:
60% of every fare is to be subsidised by the taxpayer
Every train has to be at capacity (1200 people)
A train has to run every 3 minutes (I challenged them on the safety of a 180mph train at 3 min intervals, but was assured this wasn't an issue)
So, being the stupid kid from the local comp, my maths aint great, but that means it needs to carry well over a million people at day at full fare... ...and "break even" still means the taxpayer footing 60% of the running cost (which again my schoolboy maths puts that well in excess of £55bn of taxpayer burden annually, or about £2k for everybody in employment).
Its an absolute colossal waste of money and resources. Their figures do not add up by orders of magnitude, and to quote on of the senior Network Rail execs at one of the early meetings when I pressed him, this is to secure their jobs, and make money for them.
Obviously, build costs do not include the additional costs to local councils for this great white elephant. Our local town council are having to spend a fortune on anti gypo defences everywhere around town, because even the council is intelligent enough to know that this will not be built by skilled labour, but by diddys.
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You need to vote for the Brexit party then, as scrapping HS2 was the first policy they decided on after the Euro elections. :y :D
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You need to vote for the Brexit party then, as scrapping HS2 was the first policy they decided on after the Euro elections. :y :D
So let's make Britain Great again once we leave the EU, but then let's cancel a great British engineering project that confirms we can still undertake such a project that the Victorians used to eat for breakfast! ::) ::)
Little Britain here we come! :o :o
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You need to vote for the Brexit party then, as scrapping HS2 was the first policy they decided on after the Euro elections. :y :D
So let's make Britain Great again once we leave the EU, but then let's cancel a great British engineering project that confirms we can still undertake such a project that the Victorians used to eat for breakfast! ::) ::)
Little Britain here we come! :o :o
As Donald would say... 'If you don't like it......eff off'.
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You need to vote for the Brexit party then, as scrapping HS2 was the first policy they decided on after the Euro elections. :y :D
So let's make Britain Great again once we leave the EU, but then let's cancel a great British engineering project that confirms we can still undertake such a project that the Victorians used to eat for breakfast! ::) ::)
Little Britain here we come! :o :o
It's a big engineering project, but it certainly isn't great. Scandalous waste of money is a fair description. Expensive solution to a problem nobody has is another.
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The Chairman of HS2 has apparently written to the D.O.T. warning them that the £55.7 billion budget wont be enough and is likely to rise to between £70 - £85 billion !
That's a "great engineering project" I think we cant afford and can do without. Particularly bearing mind the figures TB has already mentioned regarding costs and subsidies. ::)
I have always thought that it will carry quite a few commuters and business people from Brum to Londinium, but almost none going the other way. :)
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You need to vote for the Brexit party then, as scrapping HS2 was the first policy they decided on after the Euro elections. :y :D
So let's make Britain Great again once we leave the EU, but then let's cancel a great British engineering project that confirms we can still undertake such a project that the Victorians used to eat for breakfast! ::) ::)
Little Britain here we come! :o :o
You are massively over estimating the competence of the people running the project, and what a monumental flop it will be - no way on gods sweet earth will it get 5% of the required travellers to break even*
They want to design their own rails, boggies and trains, rather than buy proven, faster equipment, purely because its all about make jobs/money for themselves for a long time. It will be an embarrassment.
*break even being able to get 40% of the running costs from those using it.
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Look it’s simple... jobs for ‘the boys’.. grease here, grease there, for the time it saves it’s ludicrous and who wants to go there in the first place?
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Look it’s simple... jobs for ‘the boys’.. grease here, grease there, for the time it saves it’s ludicrous and who wants to go there in the first place?
Lundun or Brum/Mancchester ::)
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Any of them😂👀
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Look it’s simple... jobs for ‘the boys’.. grease here, grease there, for the time it saves it’s ludicrous and who wants to go there in the first place?
I think they are talking 15 -20 minutes quicker? :-\
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Not bad for over 70 billion :o
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Or is it 86 billion now??
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I remember when time spent on the intercity was a pleasant experience. No rush to get where you're going, just leave in plenty of time.
Different nowadays, I guess.
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if its a new line why not build a maglev like japan and do 200mph plus?
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if its a new line why not build a maglev like japan and do 200mph plus?
Considering how badly they've oppsed up technology we invented 200 years ago, can you imagine what they could do to maglevs? :o
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All quite sad. There was a day when we did stunning projects.
Mind you the underground extension in London is impressive but not very visible.
My suggestions would be to make the Wash into a giant freshwater lake to supply the demand of the South East. The other would be to quadruple the size of Gods own country by extending the land out to the dogger bank. We need to be creating more land on an epic scale.
A road and rail bridge across to Ireland from Scotland near Stranraer would be good too.
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All quite sad. There was a day when we did stunning projects.
Mind you the underground extension in London is impressive but not very visible.
My suggestions would be to make the Wash into a giant freshwater lake to supply the demand of the South East. The other would be to quadruple the size of Gods own country by extending the land out to the dogger bank. We need to be creating more land on an epic scale.
A road and rail bridge across to Ireland from Scotland near Stranraer would be good too.
With drive through border post :D
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Look it’s simple... jobs for ‘the boys’.. grease here, grease there, for the time it saves it’s ludicrous and who wants to go there in the first place?
I think they are talking 15 -20 minutes quicker? :-\
Network Rail have been trying to slow the existing lines in order to make HS2 look more viable.
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if its a new line why not build a maglev like japan and do 200mph plus?
Yep, and then elevate the track to 30,000 feet so you can reduce the air resistance and do 450 MPH, then do away with the track altogether and all you need is a runway.. and..
Gotta love Victorian technology. ;D
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Waste of money, end of.
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The realistic cost of £100bn would buy 100 type 45 destroyers & in this unstable world I know which would be more useful. The only reason we are building HS2 is the the EU has ordered us to. Come the 31/10 we can tell them to swivel & cancel it.
Lizzie's argument is nonsensical that it will create jobs, so would bringing back wheel tappers on every platform at every station. The difference between rich & poor countries is the efficient allocation of limited resources that provides a decent ROI. HS2 doesnt where the maths I think were done by either Lizzie or Diane Abbot where it will return in the region of £eleventy-ten-one. :-[ :-[ :-[
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The realistic cost of £100bn would buy 100 type 45 destroyers & in this unstable world I know which would be more useful. The only reason we are building HS2 is the the EU has ordered us to. Come the 31/10 we can tell them to swivel & cancel it.
Lizzie's argument is nonsensical that it will create jobs, so would bringing back wheel tappers on every platform at every station. The difference between rich & poor countries is the efficient allocation of limited resources that provides a decent ROI. HS2 doesnt where the maths I think were done by either Lizzie or Diane Abbot where it will return in the region of £eleventy-ten-one. :-[ :-[ :-[
The Destroyers would be finished before the railway if they started tomorrow... ::)
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The realistic cost of £100bn would buy 100 type 45 destroyers & in this unstable world I know which would be more useful. The only reason we are building HS2 is the the EU has ordered us to. Come the 31/10 we can tell them to swivel & cancel it.
Lizzie's argument is nonsensical that it will create jobs, so would bringing back wheel tappers on every platform at every station. The difference between rich & poor countries is the efficient allocation of limited resources that provides a decent ROI. HS2 doesnt where the maths I think were done by either Lizzie or Diane Abbot where it will return in the region of £eleventy-ten-one. :-[ :-[ :-[
So it does not take thousands of workers to build the line, thousands to provide the materials, then hundreds to run the new lines?! Then there is the untold jobs that will be created by the more efficient movement of people between the major business centres.
So the EU is forcing us to build these new lines? Rubbish!!
If you Rod had been around in the great days of railway building they would never have been built and we would still be using horse and carts!
Roads are too clogged and slow, air travel is damaging the environment, and the current railway lines from South to North, at least, have reached maximum capacity, but people will still need to travel between cities, and fast.
No, just another negative comment to justify the usual negative comments about everything. ::) ::) ::)
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Look it’s simple... jobs for ‘the boys’.. grease here, grease there, for the time it saves it’s ludicrous and who wants to go there in the first place?
I think they are talking 15 -20 minutes quicker? :-\
AND, more importantly, it frees up paths for stoppers plus freight on the east/west coast mainline (which most forget) :y
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Jonathan Pie on HS2! ;D
Obviously NWS! :)
https://hs2.jonathanpie.com/
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Look it’s simple... jobs for ‘the boys’.. grease here, grease there, for the time it saves it’s ludicrous and who wants to go there in the first place?
I think they are talking 15 -20 minutes quicker? :-\
AND, more importantly, it frees up paths for stoppers plus freight on the east/west coast mainline (which most forget) :y
Exactly, the existing lines are running at full capacity,,as are the passenger trains. But all some are seeing is, yes, the massive cost of building the high speed lines to meet the needs of the rest of this century. ;)
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So it does not take thousands of workers to build the line
They wont be taxpayers, and they will put nothing back into the local economy. In fact they will damage the local economies. Our local council is already running up huge costs due to this.
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Look it’s simple... jobs for ‘the boys’.. grease here, grease there, for the time it saves it’s ludicrous and who wants to go there in the first place?
I think they are talking 15 -20 minutes quicker? :-\
AND, more importantly, it frees up paths for stoppers plus freight on the east/west coast mainline (which most forget) :y
Exactly, the existing lines are running at full capacity,,as are the passenger trains. But all some are seeing is, yes, the massive cost of building the high speed lines to meet the needs of the rest of this century. ;)
I regularly get on both existing lines that serve between Birmingham and London. Ignoring the 7:20 - 8:30am rush, the trains are short and still empty. I frequently get a whole carriage almost to myself.
If you need more track capacity, then reduce the frequency of these passenger services to make room for freight...
Because HS2 has no stops, and only a small percentage of people want to go from Birmingham to London, the HS2 trains will remain near empty, leaving the existing 2 lines carrying pretty much the same number of people.
Remember the maths is for well over a million people a day to use it (Phase 1) at full fare, with a 60% taxpayer subsidy. I'd wager it won't even get 1 million passengers a year, let alone a day. It will be too much of a burden to run, so will need to be closed down. Which will leave a scar on the rural landscape, piss many people who have been displaced, and leave the country an as yet undecided £xx billion (Phase 1 won't stop at £50b, and will easily quadruple in the next 6 years) worse off in construction.
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Remember this ‘Fantastic Project’
https://www.brightwork.com/blog/project-failures-londons-1m-per-month-millennium-dome
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The realistic cost of £100bn would buy 100 type 45 destroyers & in this unstable world I know which would be more useful. The only reason we are building HS2 is the the EU has ordered us to. Come the 31/10 we can tell them to swivel & cancel it.
Lizzie's argument is nonsensical that it will create jobs, so would bringing back wheel tappers on every platform at every station. The difference between rich & poor countries is the efficient allocation of limited resources that provides a decent ROI. HS2 doesnt where the maths I think were done by either Lizzie or Diane Abbot where it will return in the region of £eleventy-ten-one. :-[ :-[ :-[
So it does not take thousands of workers to build the line, thousands to provide the materials, then hundreds to run the new lines?! Then there is the untold jobs that will be created by the more efficient movement of people between the major business centres.
So the EU is forcing us to build these new lines? Rubbish!!
If you Rod had been around in the great days of railway building they would never have been built and we would still be using horse and carts!
Roads are too clogged and slow, air travel is damaging the environment, and the current railway lines from South to North, at least, have reached maximum capacity, but people will still need to travel between cities, and fast.
No, just another negative comment to justify the usual negative comments about everything. ::) ::) ::)
Yes, they would have as their was a sound business case for this technology & likewise there has been for CrossRail & there is also for the Heathrow loop. A simple rule for infrastructure investment is that it pays for itself in terms of significant time saving & thus cost and/or significantly more people use it. HS2 has only been justified on the basis of mythical increases in passenger & freight traffic & being able to charge much higher prices. None of these hold so it is just a massive white elephant which will make us all collectively poorer.
A maximum practical daily commute time is 1 hour each way for the majority of people & London to Manchester is slightly beyond this & Leeds & Liverpool are significantly beyond this limit, especially where they are now on cost grounds talking about potentially limiting the trains to a maximum of 195mph (from 225). Japan & China are showing the way ahead with up to 600kph Maglev lines. These would bring Manchester, Liverpool & Leeds all in daily London commute times & would beat flight times with their much faster boarding & alighting times, thus capturing a significant portion of this market. The Chinese are testing at the moment their latest 600kph Maglev prototype, which they are aiming to put into production in 2021. The problem is the lack of imagination & foresight of our politicians where they think almost 200 year old steel rail technology is the future, it isn't Maglev & Hyperloop are. Like so many British inventions with Maglev we are letting our competitors develop, invest & out compete us.
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/china-highspeed-maglev-prototype/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/china-highspeed-maglev-prototype/index.html)
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Cant argue with “ our politicians having a lack of imagination and foresight.”
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Cant argue with “ our politicians having a lack of imagination and foresight.”
No, nor can I :y
But they never have. It has always taken people with foresight and imagination to achieve what this country has in the past, and hopefully will do in the future. That process must never be slowed down or stopped, as then we will become just that little Island off the coast of Europe. :(
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The problem is the lack of imagination & foresight of our politicians where they think almost 200 year old steel rail technology is the future
I think the lack of imagination is with the rail industry TBH. Which in itself is pretty much still of civil service mentality, so they will never have the imagination.
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The problem is the lack of imagination & foresight of our politicians where they think almost 200 year old steel rail technology is the future
I think the lack of imagination is with the rail industry TBH. Which in itself is pretty much still of civil service mentality, so they will never have the imagination.
I think that a lack of imagination and innovation is the cancer of middle management generally. Unfortunately it spreads a malaise of zombieism through the affected companies making it increasingly frustrating for anyone with an ounce of either to remain motivated. :'(
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it's over budget, because the contract is not fixed price.
Having worked on a Government funded cost plus project, the only motivation of the main contractor was to make as much out of it as possible. As a contractor to a contractor to the main contractor, I had a discussion early on about my booking more than 38 hours a week.
I explained, that work would be done by someone else, if not by us, so the more hours I did, the more hours they could charge for, and because they were charging me at twice my hourly rate, extra hours meant more profit for their shareholders.
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Yet you think the EU is a good thing ???
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Yet you think the EU is a good thing ???
No. I thought the COST of removing ourselves from it and the turmoil, and massive unplanned change, and volatility wasn't worth the risk.
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Effectively the same thing ::)
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Effectively the same thing ::)
Regardless of context you are wrong.
It is perfectly possible to view a person/situation/organisation neutrally or even negatively and still believe maintaining the status quo is the least worst option.
Human decision making has, for millennia been based on choosing the least worst option.
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Something being 'less' bad doesn't make it 'good'. Not by a long shot.
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Human decision making has, for millennia been based on choosing the least worst option.
Which is exactly what 17.4 million people did! ;D
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Three years ago and we still haven’t got it! C’mon Boris👍
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I see the old Victorian transport system has completely collapsed. Yet the 20th century transport system has not suffered any issues today.
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Sun shines in the summer & the country gets hotter, leaves fall every autumn & it gets colder every winter. National rail are always shocked, surprised & caught out without warning that such things happen! How can anybody be expected to know this? :o :o :o
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You forgot the ‘different type of snow’!
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I see the old Victorian transport system has completely collapsed. Yet the 20th century transport system has not suffered any issues today.
Kinda makes you wonder how they have trains that work in places like India and Mexico where it gets proper hot. :-\
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I see the old Victorian transport system has completely collapsed. Yet the 20th century transport system has not suffered any issues today.
Kinda makes you wonder how they have trains that work in places like India and Mexico where it gets proper hot. :-\
They are held firmly onto the rails by the hundred odd people on the roof.
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Why don't we do that here then ? If they have trouble picking out who should be on the roof I will nominate them and wont even charge for my services. :)
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Why don't we do that here then ? If they have trouble picking out who should be on the roof I will nominate them and wont even charge for my services. :)
Lack of seats solved at a stroke too. :y
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Yep, negating the need for HS2 and saving
20 30 50 80 billion at a stroke. :y ;D
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Yes and the longer we leave it the more we will save :D
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I see the old Victorian transport system has completely collapsed. Yet the 20th century transport system has not suffered any issues today.
Kinda makes you wonder how they have trains that work in places like India and Mexico where it gets proper hot. :-\
They are held firmly onto the rails by the hundred odd people on the roof.
Yes, and that reflects how in those countries Health & Safety does not exist, and if there is an accident so be it!
The railways in this country, AND in Northern Europe, have been affected by this record breaking period of extreme heat which is not generally allowed for in the usual calculations of laying the tracks. Trains in the UK AND in Europe have been running at reduced speeds and frequency as a safety measure so as to not put their passengers at risk from buckled track. The overhead wires have also been affected, particularly at Kings Cross where a cable short circuited and caused a track side fire.
As the World is heating up it is clear that the design of track will have to allow greater tolerances for track heat expansion. When the outside temperature is say 36 degrees C, the track temperature can be 20 degrees C higher. In hotter climates they build track not on sleepers but on concrete slabs, but that costs 4 times as much as the UK method. But that will now have to be considered. ;)
AS for 'modern' air travel verses "Victorian" transport, well over 100 flights have been canceled in and out of Heathrow due to the heat here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. So extreme heat affects everything no matter what "age" the method of transport is from! ::) ::) ;)
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Whatever happened to fishplates?
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Whatever happened to fishplates?
They are still used, but on sections of welded track up to 20 metres long, whereas in the old days the track was in 20 foot lengths, so many more fish plates were used. In my opinion that has also aggravated the buckling of track problem due to less expansion joints being included in modern track, where those 20 metre track lengths can expand by up to half a metre in the very hot conditions when the track temperature can be 20 degrees C higher than the air temperature. ;)
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The railways in this country, AND in Northern Europe, have been affected by this record breaking period of extreme heat which is not generally allowed for in the usual calculations of laying the tracks. Trains in the UK AND in Europe have been running at reduced speeds and frequency as a safety measure so as to not put their passengers at risk from buckled track. The overhead wires have also been affected, particularly at Kings Cross where a cable short circuited and caused a track side fire.
Its utter, sheer incompetence. There are lost of places in the world with less moderate climates than ours, and cope well.
Like the NHS, this ex civil service institution cannot be fixed, and is gobbling money for no gain. Our money.
AS for 'modern' air travel verses "Victorian" transport, well over 100 flights have been canceled in and out of Heathrow due to the heat here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. So extreme heat affects everything no matter what "age" the method of transport is from! ::) ::) ;)
Were any of the major roads closed due to it? Nope. A bit of weather, of any kind, and the Victorian shit falls apart.
The planes were cancelled due to storms, not heat. But are working today. Unlike the 3 month repairs when a storm gets near a railway.
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The railways in this country, AND in Northern Europe, have been affected by this record breaking period of extreme heat which is not generally allowed for in the usual calculations of laying the tracks. Trains in the UK AND in Europe have been running at reduced speeds and frequency as a safety measure so as to not put their passengers at risk from buckled track. The overhead wires have also been affected, particularly at Kings Cross where a cable short circuited and caused a track side fire.
Its utter, sheer incompetence. There are lost of places in the world with less moderate climates than ours, and cope well.
Like the NHS, this ex civil service institution cannot be fixed, and is gobbling money for no gain. Our money.
AS for 'modern' air travel verses "Victorian" transport, well over 100 flights have been canceled in and out of Heathrow due to the heat here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. So extreme heat affects everything no matter what "age" the method of transport is from! ::) ::) ;)
Were any of the major roads closed due to it? Nope. A bit of weather, of any kind, and the Victorian shit falls apart.
The planes were cancelled due to storms, not heat. But are working today. Unlike the 3 month repairs when a storm gets near a railway.
As I stated, our railways are built for our traditional climate, not extreme heat and it would cost four times - billions- as much to make them able to cope with the record temperatures seen. But, at least they still ran in part, unlike dozens of flights due to a air traffic control centre failure, storms, all brought about by the heat. So hi tech became low tech and unlike the "Victorian" technology, with trains still running in the main, but more slowly and of lesser desity, but aircraft not taking off or landing. Indeed in the USA temperatures in Arizona went to 49 degrees C, and flights were cancelled due to heat - so we are not alone. As for working today, well no, the media is still reporting cancellations and general disruption.
As for the roads, yes, they were very hot and not pleasant to travel on, but they, dating from Roman times, were still operating. But I wonder how many "modern" vehicles broke down due to the extreme heat?!
In all, no matter what mankind does, we will always be at the mercy of our weather extremes, but unless you want to pay a lot more in taxes, they will not be made weatherproof in the near future, but no doubt with climate change, that still people deny is happening, it will have to happen ;)
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Well some of the planes are working today... ::) NATS fell over earlier...
Still, more O/T for me 8)
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Well some of the planes are working today... ::) NATS fell over earlier...
Still, more O/T for me 8)
There will always be winners DG, like ice cream and soft drink sellers 8) 8) :D :y
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As I stated, our railways are built for our traditional climate, not extreme heat and it would cost four times - billions- as much to make them able to cope with the record temperatures seen. But, at least they still ran in part, unlike dozens of flights due to a air traffic control centre failure, storms, all brought about by the heat.
So the Phase 1 of HS2 actually needs to cost £400bn then? What with the BBC's global warming, or it won't be able to run when the sun comes out. That works out to £6000 for every man, woman and child in the entire UK, even though less than 0.01% of those will ever use it once a year. It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.
Also, the vast majority of planes were flying. Without significant delays. Unlike the trains, where the vast majority were planned to be cancelled and delayed, and then the unplanned cancellations due to the Kings Cross/St-P SNAFU.
I should point out, as DG will confirm, as I'm sure I've berated airports to him privately, I absolutely detest the whole airport/flying thing. So its not my love of planes that fuels my comments about how useless the trains are.
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It’s a scandalous waste of cash. Spend it to fix the fkd up system that’s already in place (what a hope)
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The railways in this country, AND in Northern Europe, have been affected by this record breaking period of extreme heat which is not generally allowed for in the usual calculations of laying the tracks. Trains in the UK AND in Europe have been running at reduced speeds and frequency as a safety measure so as to not put their passengers at risk from buckled track. The overhead wires have also been affected, particularly at Kings Cross where a cable short circuited and caused a track side fire.
Its utter, sheer incompetence. There are lost of places in the world with less moderate climates than ours, and cope well.
Like the NHS, this ex civil service institution cannot be fixed, and is gobbling money for no gain. Our money.
AS for 'modern' air travel verses "Victorian" transport, well over 100 flights have been canceled in and out of Heathrow due to the heat here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. So extreme heat affects everything no matter what "age" the method of transport is from! ::) ::) ;)
Were any of the major roads closed due to it? Nope. A bit of weather, of any kind, and the Victorian shit falls apart.
The planes were cancelled due to storms, not heat. But are working today. Unlike the 3 month repairs when a storm gets near a railway.
As I stated, our railways are built for our traditional climate, not extreme heat and it would cost four times - billions- as much to make them able to cope with the record temperatures seen. But, at least they still ran in part, unlike dozens of flights due to a air traffic control centre failure, storms, all brought about by the heat. So hi tech became low tech and unlike the "Victorian" technology, with trains still running in the main, but more slowly and of lesser desity, but aircraft not taking off or landingIndeed in the USA temperatures in Arizona went to 49 degrees C, and flights were cancelled due to heat - so we are not alone.As for working today, well no, the media is still reporting cancellations and general disruption.
As for the roads, yes, they were very hot and not pleasant to travel on, but they, dating from Roman times, were still operating. But I wonder how many "modern" vehicles broke down due to the extreme heat?!
In all, no matter what mankind does, we will always be at the mercy of our weather extremes, but unless you want to pay a lot more in taxes, they will not be made weatherproof in the near future, but no doubt with climate change, that still people deny is happening, it will have to happen ;)
Ahh good old Phoenix, I nearly got stuck there once due to this very issue. Whichever complete plum they got to design that cr@ppy airport didn't make the runway long enough for planes to take off in the heat.
Nothing wrong with the aircraft (I think most modern jets will take off up to about 52 degrees), just some sh!try penny pinching infrastructure. ::)
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The railways in this country, AND in Northern Europe, have been affected by this record breaking period of extreme heat which is not generally allowed for in the usual calculations of laying the tracks. Trains in the UK AND in Europe have been running at reduced speeds and frequency as a safety measure so as to not put their passengers at risk from buckled track. The overhead wires have also been affected, particularly at Kings Cross where a cable short circuited and caused a track side fire.
Its utter, sheer incompetence. There are lost of places in the world with less moderate climates than ours, and cope well.
Like the NHS, this ex civil service institution cannot be fixed, and is gobbling money for no gain. Our money.
AS for 'modern' air travel verses "Victorian" transport, well over 100 flights have been canceled in and out of Heathrow due to the heat here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. So extreme heat affects everything no matter what "age" the method of transport is from! ::) ::) ;)
Were any of the major roads closed due to it? Nope. A bit of weather, of any kind, and the Victorian shit falls apart.
The planes were cancelled due to storms, not heat. But are working today. Unlike the 3 month repairs when a storm gets near a railway.
As I stated, our railways are built for our traditional climate, not extreme heat and it would cost four times - billions- as much to make them able to cope with the record temperatures seen. But, at least they still ran in part, unlike dozens of flights due to a air traffic control centre failure, storms, all brought about by the heat. So hi tech became low tech and unlike the "Victorian" technology, with trains still running in the main, but more slowly and of lesser desity, but aircraft not taking off or landing. Indeed in the USA temperatures in Arizona went to 49 degrees C, and flights were cancelled due to heat - so we are not alone. As for working today, well no, the media is still reporting cancellations and general disruption.
As for the roads, yes, they were very hot and not pleasant to travel on, but they, dating from Roman times, were still operating. But I wonder how many "modern" vehicles broke down due to the extreme heat?!
In all, no matter what mankind does, we will always be at the mercy of our weather extremes, but unless you want to pay a lot more in taxes, they will not be made weatherproof in the near future, but no doubt with climate change, that still people deny is happening, it will have to happen ;)
Lizzie. How come Spanish railways work in a range of temps? I have seen minus 14 deg C and plus 44 degC in my time here. Not all the lines are new or real high speed but the still work.
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I see the old Victorian transport system has completely collapsed. Yet the 20th century transport system has not suffered any issues today.
Kinda makes you wonder how they have trains that work in places like India and Mexico where it gets proper hot. :-\
They are held firmly onto the rails by the hundred odd people on the roof.
Yes, and that reflects how in those countries Health & Safety does not exist, and if there is an accident so be it!
The railways in this country, AND in Northern Europe, have been affected by this record breaking period of extreme heat which is not generally allowed for in the usual calculations of laying the tracks. Trains in the UK AND in Europe have been running at reduced speeds and frequency as a safety measure so as to not put their passengers at risk from buckled track. The overhead wires have also been affected, particularly at Kings Cross where a cable short circuited and caused a track side fire.
As the World is heating up it is clear that the design of track will have to allow greater tolerances for track heat expansion. When the outside temperature is say 36 degrees C, the track temperature can be 20 degrees C higher. In hotter climates they build track not on sleepers but on concrete slabs, but that costs 4 times as much as the UK method. But that will now have to be considered. ;)
AS for 'modern' air travel verses "Victorian" transport, well over 100 flights have been canceled in and out of Heathrow due to the heat here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. So extreme heat affects everything no matter what "age" the method of transport is from! ::) ::) ;)
The world has been cooling down for the last 3 years, so there has been no overall global temperature increase since 1998. Those at the back therefore need to keep up & not rely on the BBC fake news propaganda. In the 20th century there were two warming periods in the 1920-30's and the 1980-90's. Many of the hottest temperature were set in the 1920-30's, which is one of several reasons why all Met records are post-1980 or just over one climate cycle long, so they can keep claiming 'ever-hotter' new records. >:( This website displays a graph of 21st century global temperatures in their header if you want a quick reference, so it is useful to bookmark.
https://www.thegwpf.com/urban-heat-island-effect-caused-50-of-warming-in-china/ (https://www.thegwpf.com/urban-heat-island-effect-caused-50-of-warming-in-china/)
Expect the trend to be for continued cooling as current solar cycle 24 ends & a weak solar cycle 25 starts. The shortest duration solar cycles are 11 years long. In 2008, which was the end of solar cycle 23 we had a very cold spell with snow in October & a cold winter, so it is going to interesting to see if 2019-20 winter is colder than average.
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Anyone else enjoy the irony of all the people getting off the roof in order to stand in the flood water whilst awaiting rescue from that stranded train... Surely the roof was the safest place ::)
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Always thought that the roof was the default position for most Indian travellers. If that,s the one you,re alluding to DG.
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Always thought that the roof was the default position for most Indian travellers. If that,s the one you,re alluding to DG.
So did I, which is why seeing them all in the water stuck out ;)
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The world has been cooling down for the last 3 years, so there has been no overall global temperature increase since 1998. Those at the back therefore need to keep up & not rely on the BBC fake news propaganda. In the 20th century there were two warming periods in the 1920-30's and the 1980-90's. Many of the hottest temperature were set in the 1920-30's, which is one of several reasons why all Met records are post-1980 or just over one climate cycle long, so they can keep claiming 'ever-hotter' new records. >:( This website displays a graph of 21st century global temperatures in their header if you want a quick reference, so it is useful to bookmark.
https://www.thegwpf.com/urban-heat-island-effect-caused-50-of-warming-in-china/ (https://www.thegwpf.com/urban-heat-island-effect-caused-50-of-warming-in-china/)
Expect the trend to be for continued cooling as current solar cycle 24 ends & a weak solar cycle 25 starts. The shortest duration solar cycles are 11 years long. In 2008, which was the end of solar cycle 23 we had a very cold spell with snow in October & a cold winter, so it is going to interesting to see if 2019-20 winter is colder than average.
I do love it when you cry fake news on climate change, then cite some biased think tank that won't even disclose its sources of funding as some sort of data-led truth.
The gwpf couldn't scream "shill organisation" any more loudly if it tried. ::)
I assume think NASA are in on it with the BBC too, ::)
https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/ (https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/)
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The world has been cooling down for the last 3 years, so there has been no overall global temperature increase since 1998. Those at the back therefore need to keep up & not rely on the BBC fake news propaganda. In the 20th century there were two warming periods in the 1920-30's and the 1980-90's. Many of the hottest temperature were set in the 1920-30's, which is one of several reasons why all Met records are post-1980 or just over one climate cycle long, so they can keep claiming 'ever-hotter' new records. >:( This website displays a graph of 21st century global temperatures in their header if you want a quick reference, so it is useful to bookmark.
https://www.thegwpf.com/urban-heat-island-effect-caused-50-of-warming-in-china/ (https://www.thegwpf.com/urban-heat-island-effect-caused-50-of-warming-in-china/)
Expect the trend to be for continued cooling as current solar cycle 24 ends & a weak solar cycle 25 starts. The shortest duration solar cycles are 11 years long. In 2008, which was the end of solar cycle 23 we had a very cold spell with snow in October & a cold winter, so it is going to interesting to see if 2019-20 winter is colder than average.
I do love it when you cry fake news on climate change, then cite some biased think tank that won't even disclose its sources of funding as some sort of data-led truth.
The gwpf couldn't scream "shill organisation" any more loudly if it tried. ::)
I assume think NASA are in on it with the BBC too, ::)
https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/ (https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/)
Indeed!! :y :y
People like Rod will write reams on false information and assumptions, whilst condemning all who oppose his viewpoint.
The FACT that all reputable sources on what IS happening now someone escapes them, and even with the antarctic and arctic ice receding fast, and especially in the case of the former with 3 trillion tons of ice lost in the last 25 years, and that loss tripling in the last decade, somehow eludes them. The fact that the worst forest fires ever have raged in Siberia, Greenland and Alaska is not on their radar. Nor is the fact that record temperatures have just occurred throughout Europe.
No, they will blind themselves to reality by taking notice of the few 'reports' that support their argument, which is completely nonsensical. ::) ::) ;)
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The railways in this country, AND in Northern Europe, have been affected by this record breaking period of extreme heat which is not generally allowed for in the usual calculations of laying the tracks. Trains in the UK AND in Europe have been running at reduced speeds and frequency as a safety measure so as to not put their passengers at risk from buckled track. The overhead wires have also been affected, particularly at Kings Cross where a cable short circuited and caused a track side fire.
Its utter, sheer incompetence. There are lost of places in the world with less moderate climates than ours, and cope well.
Like the NHS, this ex civil service institution cannot be fixed, and is gobbling money for no gain. Our money.
AS for 'modern' air travel verses "Victorian" transport, well over 100 flights have been canceled in and out of Heathrow due to the heat here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. So extreme heat affects everything no matter what "age" the method of transport is from! ::) ::) ;)
Were any of the major roads closed due to it? Nope. A bit of weather, of any kind, and the Victorian shit falls apart.
The planes were cancelled due to storms, not heat. But are working today. Unlike the 3 month repairs when a storm gets near a railway.
As I stated, our railways are built for our traditional climate, not extreme heat and it would cost four times - billions- as much to make them able to cope with the record temperatures seen. But, at least they still ran in part, unlike dozens of flights due to a air traffic control centre failure, storms, all brought about by the heat. So hi tech became low tech and unlike the "Victorian" technology, with trains still running in the main, but more slowly and of lesser desity, but aircraft not taking off or landing. Indeed in the USA temperatures in Arizona went to 49 degrees C, and flights were cancelled due to heat - so we are not alone. As for working today, well no, the media is still reporting cancellations and general disruption.
As for the roads, yes, they were very hot and not pleasant to travel on, but they, dating from Roman times, were still operating. But I wonder how many "modern" vehicles broke down due to the extreme heat?!
In all, no matter what mankind does, we will always be at the mercy of our weather extremes, but unless you want to pay a lot more in taxes, they will not be made weatherproof in the near future, but no doubt with climate change, that still people deny is happening, it will have to happen ;)
Lizzie How come Spanish railways work in a range of temps? I have seen minus 14 deg C and plus 44 degC in my time here. Not all the lines are new or real high speed but the still work.
As I stated before, it is due to those countries who have an average temperature range higher, like Spain, than the northern countries of Europe building their railways to meet those needs. The construction allows for extreme temperatures, but they can cost up to 4 times that of UK lines to lay. Concrete slabs, rather than sleepers, and continuous rail stressed to higher temperatures, makes a huge difference. "Critical Rail Temperature" which means in the UK rail is pre-stressed to 27 degrees C (the average British Summer temperature high), whilst in the USA it is a pre-stressed temperature of 35-43 degrees C to allow for their higher Summer average temperatures.
With the recent trend for UK Summers to become much hotter, it would appear the rail industry here, and in Northern Europe, will have to review their track laying techniques, and pre-stressed rail to higher temperatures. But the difficulty will be that they will still, at the moment, have to allow for our average Winter temperatures to avoid rails being brittle and cracking.
Note these comments online about French and German railways who have had the same difficulties as the UK:
http://en.rfi.fr/environment/20190726-french-railroad-tracks-can-t-keep-extreme-heat
https://www.dw.com/en/how-is-the-heat-wave-in-europe-affecting-travel/a-49741200
;)
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Climate change should be easily proved - although its seemingly not as easy as one would expect, as the scientific facts can show warming and cooling. Hence, they have had to call it climate change, rather than last decade's global warming.
What can't be proved is that its manmade. We've had major climate shifts before, and the ancients didn't drive 5l V8 Range Rovers. Personally, I think its likely it is, but it cannot be proven. Its well known that the BBC have had this agenda for decades, and they were caught out.
Remember, it has not been proven yet that smoking causes cancer. Personally I think its likely it can, but it cannot be proven. And some of the most healthy people I know have smoked. And many people I know who are cancer survivors have never really smoked. But the NHS and BBC will categorically say it does.
Still, if the climate is manmade, and nature is unable to recover, I have the ideal cure when I'm in power.
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The world has been cooling down for the last 3 years, so there has been no overall global temperature increase since 1998. Those at the back therefore need to keep up & not rely on the BBC fake news propaganda. In the 20th century there were two warming periods in the 1920-30's and the 1980-90's. Many of the hottest temperature were set in the 1920-30's, which is one of several reasons why all Met records are post-1980 or just over one climate cycle long, so they can keep claiming 'ever-hotter' new records. >:( This website displays a graph of 21st century global temperatures in their header if you want a quick reference, so it is useful to bookmark.
https://www.thegwpf.com/urban-heat-island-effect-caused-50-of-warming-in-china/ (https://www.thegwpf.com/urban-heat-island-effect-caused-50-of-warming-in-china/)
Expect the trend to be for continued cooling as current solar cycle 24 ends & a weak solar cycle 25 starts. The shortest duration solar cycles are 11 years long. In 2008, which was the end of solar cycle 23 we had a very cold spell with snow in October & a cold winter, so it is going to interesting to see if 2019-20 winter is colder than average.
I do love it when you cry fake news on climate change, then cite some biased think tank that won't even disclose its sources of funding as some sort of data-led truth.
The gwpf couldn't scream "shill organisation" any more loudly if it tried. ::)
I assume think NASA are in on it with the BBC too, ::)
https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/ (https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/)
The chart in the header is based on the UHT satellite lower atmosphere data version 6 & in the header if you had bothered to read it is correctly attributed to the Met Office. Google it & Google with provide you with a page of the various series of the charts & here is another link below to the data in detail, the red line shows the annual averages & as I stated there has been 3 years of cooling & there might or might not be some slight warming in 2019, too early to say yet. But don't let something awkward like the facts get in the way of your left-wing warming fantasies.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/01/uah-global-temperature-update-for-april-2019-0-44-deg-c/ (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/01/uah-global-temperature-update-for-april-2019-0-44-deg-c/)
Where land based temperature measurements are patchy at best with the exception of the US & most of the southern hemisphere is covered sparsely, but many of the sites are also in urban areas with their local heating effects which is why satellite data not only has the greatest global coverage, but is also considered the most accurate & it can also be taken for different atmosphere layers.
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The chart in the header is based on the UHT satellite lower atmosphere data version 6 & in the header if you had bothered to read it is correctly attributed to the Met Office. Google it & Google with provide you with a page of the various series of the charts & here is another link below to the data in detail, the red line shows the annual averages & as I stated there has been 3 years of cooling & there might or might not be some slight warming in 2019, too early to say yet. But don't let something awkward like the facts get in the way of your left-wing warming fantasies.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/01/uah-global-temperature-update-for-april-2019-0-44-deg-c/ (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/01/uah-global-temperature-update-for-april-2019-0-44-deg-c/)
So, in simple terms, the chart you have linked to takes the most recent 40yrs of the NASA '1880 to present' chart and re-bases that as the average. Thereby wiping out the relative increase that is shown over the longer term average - seems a bit like cherry picking your evidence to me, but never mind. Yet, even ignoring this sleight of hand, the chart you link still shows an increasing trend i.e. the majority of the years in the first half of the graph show the rolling average to be below the average for the entire time period, and the majority of the later years are above the average for the entire time period.
I simply don't understand why you think this is fantasy, both charts show an increase over the time periods considered, all the chart you linked to does is make the increase look less dramatic by re-basing it to the most recent 40yrs rather than including the older records.
But don't let something awkward like the facts get in the way of your left-wing warming fantasies.
Attaboy Rods, for a minute I thought you were going to be able to get through an entire post interacting with someone who disagrees with you without referring to them in pejorative terms. Thankfully the crisis was averted and you didn't disappoint... :y
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Climate change should be easily proved - although its seemingly not as easy as one would expect, as the scientific facts can show warming and cooling. Hence, they have had to call it climate change, rather than last decade's global warming.
What can't be proved is that its manmade. We've had major climate shifts before, and the ancients didn't drive 5l V8 Range Rovers. Personally, I think its likely it is, but it cannot be proven. Its well known that the BBC have had this agenda for decades, and they were caught out.
While I agree that certain standards of 'proof' cannot be met, on a whole host of things, that doesn't mean that we should not act on the balance of probabilities. For example, we (as in collective humanity) have basically no idea how anaesthesia works, but that shouldn't preclude its use. Likewise, we cannot prove that human activity causes climate change, but we can conclusively show/demonstrate that the way we use the planet is having a devastating effect on it. By that I mean things like deforestation, loss of other habitats, filling the oceans with plastic, the effect of Nitrogen Dioxide on people who live in urban areas etc etc.
Those reasons alone should be enough for us to change the way we live and consume resources. An added bonus that we on the balance of probabilities could/might/will (depending on your viewpoint) reduce the effects of climate change is all the more reason to do those things, no?
Turning the question on its head, what is wrong with digging up and burning less stuff in order to fuel our civilisation?
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It really is all academic. With the world population growing at the rate it is, there is no way we can cut back on anything. In fact, stripping the planet of it's resources is likely to increase, Brazil being a good example.
We, in the so-called first world, have had it good for quite a while now. We cannot expect the third world to hold back when their existence is mostly just surviving on a day-to-day basis.
Until someone invents a completely new source of power, the decline will continue.
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It really is all academic. With the world population growing at the rate it is, there is no way we can cut back on anything. In fact, stripping the planet of it's resources is likely to increase, Brazil being a good example.
We, in the so-called first world, have had it good for quite a while now. We cannot expect the third world to hold back when their existence is mostly just surviving on a day-to-day basis.
Until someone invents a completely new source of power, the decline will continue.
And that is why 1st world countries will have to pay poor third world people to not rip out acres of for st to grow useless palm oil etc. Ripping the world off is so yesterday.
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It really is all academic. With the world population growing at the rate it is, there is no way we can cut back on anything. In fact, stripping the planet of it's resources is likely to increase, Brazil being a good example.
We, in the so-called first world, have had it good for quite a while now. We cannot expect the third world to hold back when their existence is mostly just surviving on a day-to-day basis.
Until someone invents a completely new source of power, the decline will continue.
And that is why 1st world countries will have to pay poor third world people to not rip out acres of for st to grow useless palm oil etc. Ripping the world off is so yesterday.
Can't see it happening. By 'pay third world people' you mean pay third world governments, and we all know how that ends up.
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Turning the question on its head, what is wrong with digging up and burning less stuff in order to fuel our civilisation?
Isn't it something like 85% of the bad emissions are caused during manufacture, with the other 15% being running it for the next 20yrs.
So ban sales of new cars. Problem solved.
Although my cull would solve it all as well.
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It’s 'dangle berries', I’ve said before, there’s more happening under the oceans, more than two thirds of earths area that are polluting the air than what our miserly contribution is. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there, and of course keeping emissions down is great, but I doubt it will make a lot of difference in the long run. It’s a cycle that’s going to keep repeating and we are not going to change anything. Trouble is, man (humans) always know best, but as history has proven we don’t.
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Can't see it happening. By 'pay third world people' you mean pay third world governments, and we all know how that ends up.
I googled "Corrupt third-world dictator" to post a picture as an example, but there were too many to choose from, so I gave up.
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Difficulty stating. Pure and simple. Too difficult so lets not bother.
It applies right down to individuals. Shall I walk or save time and use the car.?
Encouraging to see that the previous record for planting trees in a day was 50 million by India around three years ago. Ethiopia of all countries just planted 350 million indigenous trees out of a 3 or 4 billion ( cannot remember which) target in a day. With help from the first world imagine what could be done around rhe world.
Footnote. You could have knocked me over with a feather when a TV programme said that nearly a half of the worlds oxygen is produced by plankton. Maybe the Japs are right to exterminate whales eating all our oxygen creating plankton!
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It applies right down to individuals. Shall I walk or save time and use the car.?
The vast majority of commuters cannot walk to the station. That's why they moved out of the shitholes we call UK cities. They wanted country living. Which means driving to the nearest town to catch a train. My nearest viable station is 14 miles away by car (there is one about 8 or 9 miles away, one that Beaching let get away)
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It applies right down to individuals. Shall I walk or save time and use the car.?
The vast majority of commuters cannot walk to the station. That's why they moved out of the shitholes we call UK cities. They wanted country living. Which means driving to the nearest town to catch a train. My nearest viable station is 14 miles away by car (there is one about 8 or 9 miles away, one that Beaching let get away)
Exactly - we're putting up rabbit hutches in the middle of nowhere as fast as we can, with no requirement to connect them to any form of transport infrastructure, then worrying why our roads are gridlocked and we keep getting a slap on the leg from the EU for our carbon emissions. ::)
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Point taken about where houses are in relation to work.
However how many people drive around looking for a parking spot near where they are going rather than get out at the first not so close parking spot and walking a bit?. Or drive somewhere to avoid a bit of walking.
Time , rightly or wrongly is viewed as everything. Every minute saved is another available for Love Island or playing fortnite etc.
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Plus many houses are being built in places where there’s no infrastructure to support them I.E either facing droughts or floods!
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Yep, they had to demolish a new development near here a few years back because building it on a flood plain turned out to be an issue. ::)
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Yep, they had to demolish a new development near here a few years back because building it on a flood plain turned out to be an issue. ::)
Yes, you have to be careful where you build in Watercress land! :D ;)
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However how many people drive around looking for a parking spot near where they are going rather than get out at the first not so close parking spot and walking a bit?
If you want to park within a mile or two of the local station, here, then you either:
1) Pay £9 per day to park in the station car park (which is full after about 8am)
2) Pay £50/month to park on the street, as that area of town is permit holders only and they sell permits as "season ticket parking"
The reason the station car park is full, apparently, is because there are no traffic wardens there (there are on the streets, though!), so everyone just parks there and doesn't bother paying...
I live in the town, 3 miles from the station, and my options are:
1) 10 minutes drive in my own car
2) 45 minutes by foot & bus
3) 50 minute walk
Guess which one I'd pick? ;D
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That is just lack of “ policing” and a none joined up transport policy.
Quite some years ago we were friends with some quite left wing councillors in Leicester. They had responsibility for matters transport . Neither were car drivers or had any intention of ever being. We lost touch but often wonder what they are doing now.
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That is just lack of “ policing” and a none joined up transport policy.
Quite some years ago we were friends with some quite left wing councillors in Leicester. They had responsibility for matters transport . Neither were car drivers or had any intention of ever being. We lost touch but often wonder what they are doing now.
Presumably waiting to cross the road...