Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 12 August 2008, 13:06:18

Title: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 August 2008, 13:06:18
Ok, so fishing it out has proved fruitless, I've tried all methods, and getting something around that bend into the bore isn't working.

Given location, I can't get fancy tools, compressors etc there.

Please vote as above. I will count the votes, and go with the Majority.
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: sassanach on 12 August 2008, 13:07:53
which cylinder is it in?
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 August 2008, 13:09:21
Passenger side, middle one.

Send me your email addy, I owe you some cash!
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: HerefordElite on 12 August 2008, 13:37:46
let it burn baby burn ;)
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Andy B on 12 August 2008, 14:56:46
Can you see this elusive bit of rubber? Or are your cams/engine still locked preventing you from turning the engine? You sure it actually went down the bore? It'd be a bloody good shot if it did go down, I bet you'd never manage to deliberately throw owt down there.  ;)  :y
I'd turn the engine over by hand first, and then start it up. It'd make it a very very expensive bit of rubber if you'd to remove the head. If you did one, I'm sure that you'd then want to do t'other - just to keep things equal!  ;)  :y  :y
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: markey mark on 12 August 2008, 15:17:05
voted james :y
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: psychnurse on 12 August 2008, 15:26:15
Voted  :y Im in the minority then  :-[ ;D
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 August 2008, 15:30:52
If you time up the engine can you turn the crank over without anything binding?

Just wondering if doing this will move the object into the centre of the piston where the spark plug hole is. Or whether the rubber is pliable enough to get squashed at TDC without causing damage.

You really need to find someone with an endoscope. 8-)

I had a similar issue on an engine I'd just rebuilt once. >:( Metal cap from my dial gauge fell off and dropped into a pot just as I was setting the timing up. Took about 2 hours with a "grabber" tool but I got it out. You can spend a long time doing this sort of thing before it becomes anything like as much hassle as a head-off.

Cylinder was vertical, unlike on the v6, which helped.

Kevin
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Bandit127 on 12 August 2008, 17:44:43
Vote is 15 - 2 to let it burn at the mo. I am 1 of the 2

Your legal predicament adds weight to the "let it burn" argument.

I can only repeat my former comment. Turn it over with a spanner first!
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Elite Pete on 12 August 2008, 17:46:32
Burn it.
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: FRE07962128 on 12 August 2008, 17:48:54
Voted James to burn the bugger !!! :D :D :y
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 August 2008, 18:17:54
The questions in my mind are:

1) Will the rubber bit get forced out into the combustion chamber area by a rising piston or will it get trapped in the "squish" area of the cylinder where there is very little clearance at TDC?
2) Is the rubber soft enough to just "squish" down if it gets wedged here, or will it generate enough force that something gets damaged?

All depends on the size and nature of the rubber bit and the combustion chamber shape. :-/

If it starts without damage the rubber will very soon become harmless as it melts. It's the first few turns of the crank that'd worry me.

Turning it over first by hand, then on the starter (with plug out, just in case it flies out of the hole) would be a very good move IMHO.

Kevin
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: TheBoy on 12 August 2008, 18:22:53
i would turn over by hand a few times.....
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Ian_D on 12 August 2008, 18:27:42
How big is the rubber? and where is it from?

If its managed to get passed the valve, then it cant be that big?

Will it fit out of the spark plug hole? If so, just start her up with the plug out and watch the bit of rubber fly out! Failing that... BURN IT!  :y
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Omegatoy on 12 August 2008, 20:25:50
ok heres my take on this, first off it wont burn immediately so will be in there bouncing up and down a couple of times minimum, second just suppose it gets sent out of the exhaust valve route, imagine what happens if it gets caught between the fast moving valve and  the valve seat, it will probably bend the valve or worse hold the valve open while the piston comes up to meet it!!so i dont think i would be starting it all with it in there, are you absolutley sure it did go in the plug hole? it would have to be a very lucvky shot indeed, and if you cant feel it in there i would guess it didnt actualy go in??
just my opinion James hope it gives you food for thought?
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 August 2008, 20:33:04
As I removed the plug, I saw it go in the hole..
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: JueV6 on 12 August 2008, 20:35:08
voted James, Let the booger burn, but turn it my hand a few times first. :y
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Omegatoy on 12 August 2008, 20:49:16
I dont suppose there is room to get a gas torch blowlamp type thing anywhere near the plug hole to burn it first? if the piston is at tdc you have a fair chance of melting it into a small puddle which wouldnt do any damage?
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: mv6copcar on 12 August 2008, 21:18:50
Quote
ok heres my take on this, first off it wont burn immediately so will be in there bouncing up and down a couple of times minimum, second just suppose it gets sent out of the exhaust valve route, imagine what happens if it gets caught between the fast moving valve and  the valve seat, it will probably bend the valve or worse hold the valve open while the piston comes up to meet it!!so i dont think i would be starting it all with it in there, are you absolutley sure it did go in the plug hole? it would have to be a very lucvky shot indeed, and if you cant feel it in there i would guess it didnt actualy go in??
just my opinion James hope it gives you food for thought?

Thats my biggest concern,as above if the rubber gets wedged and holds a valve open and the piston hits the open valve, no matter how soft the rubber it'll bend the valve.
its a very hard call, and i'm inclined to say burn too, but as with anything in life - what are the odd's?
are you a lucky kinda bloke? (guess not having dropped the rubber in the first place lol)

Wish you the best of luck either way fella  :y

carl
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: hotel21 on 12 August 2008, 21:21:23
Quote
I dont suppose there is room to get a gas torch blowlamp type thing anywhere near the plug hole to burn it first? if the piston is at tdc you have a fair chance of melting it into a small puddle which wouldnt do any damage?

 :y

I like that idea.....
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: dad1uk on 12 August 2008, 21:36:38
Sorry, but I'm a believer that if it can go wrong it will, and usually at the worst time. Strip it down and fetch it out.... Sorry but this is what I would so.
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Omegatoy on 12 August 2008, 21:47:35
Quote
Quote
I dont suppose there is room to get a gas torch blowlamp type thing anywhere near the plug hole to burn it first? if the piston is at tdc you have a fair chance of melting it into a small puddle which wouldnt do any damage?

 :y

I like that idea.....

only thing i can think of that saves having to strip it down :y
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Bandit127 on 12 August 2008, 21:52:33
Quote
Quote
I dont suppose there is room to get a gas torch blowlamp type thing anywhere near the plug hole to burn it first? if the piston is at tdc you have a fair chance of melting it into a small puddle which wouldnt do any damage?

 :y

I like that idea.....
Would need to be oxy-acetylene. But yes, good idea.
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: hotel21 on 12 August 2008, 22:08:48
Quote
Quote
Quote
I dont suppose there is room to get a gas torch blowlamp type thing anywhere near the plug hole to burn it first? if the piston is at tdc you have a fair chance of melting it into a small puddle which wouldnt do any damage?

 :y

I like that idea.....
Would need to be oxy-acetylene. But yes, good idea.

Wonder if a heat gun would do the same job?  Probably not, I suppose, despite those things getting really hot...
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: mickh on 12 August 2008, 22:46:12
hi try puting a small dia rubber/clear hose on end of hover and try to suck the bit out have used this in the past   :y                                   mick
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Elite Pete on 12 August 2008, 22:52:10
Is it the sort of rubber that would float?
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Bandit127 on 12 August 2008, 23:01:58
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
I dont suppose there is room to get a gas torch blowlamp type thing anywhere near the plug hole to burn it first? if the piston is at tdc you have a fair chance of melting it into a small puddle which wouldnt do any damage?

 :y

I like that idea.....
Would need to be oxy-acetylene. But yes, good idea.

Wonder if a heat gun would do the same job?  Probably not, I suppose, despite those things getting really hot...
Was thinking that there's no oxygen in there to support a flame (after a very short time) so no heat would actually get to the rubber. Oxy-acetylene is both very hot and supplies it's own oxygen.
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 August 2008, 06:49:50
Quote
Was thinking that there's no oxygen in there to support a flame (after a very short time) so no heat would actually get to the rubber. Oxy-acetylene is both very hot and supplies it's own oxygen.

It would also melt a piston rather easily, so would need a bit of care.

I think my concern is bottom end damage. It could wedge a valve open to be clouted by the piston, but then you're only into a head-off job to fix it. That's the other option being contemplated as a fix so no harm in trying really. However, if it jammed against the squish area so hard that it caused piston / conrod damage it'd be a bit more of a mare to fix.

My gut feeling is that it probably wouldn't and that spinning the engine with the plug removed would probably see it exit the plug hole at high speed before any damage is done, but you never know.

Kevin
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: dbug on 13 August 2008, 08:51:52
Voted - burn the b*gger - 2 be safe turn engine over by hand a couple of revs first.
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: theowletman on 14 August 2008, 17:06:16
A late reply I know, just seen the post. Get a length of screenwash tube, tape it in the end of a decent vacuum cleaner ( aka a HOOVER ), try and fish it out with that, its worked for me in the past. Use clear tube if possible and you will see if any small bits are removed, bigger bits should stay on the end if you are lucky.
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Dave-C on 14 August 2008, 17:14:46
Does Silicone Eater disolve this type of rubber???   If so, maybe worth bringing the piston up towards TDC and squirting some in....  hopefully it won't wreck the CHG's !!!! :-/
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Ian_D on 26 August 2008, 00:51:38
What was the outcome of this?
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 26 August 2008, 01:01:26
I think it just burnt out
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: zirk on 26 August 2008, 01:25:02
Quote
I think it just burnt out
Someone will be posting on here soon, saying that they have a bit of burnt rubber stuck to there windscreen and cant get it off.
Title: Re: What shall I do about small bit of rubber in Bore
Post by: Proz on 26 August 2008, 09:58:53
Burn baby burn  :P